From a franchise perspective, which franchise is rich in history, the Patriots, the Colts or the Broncos?

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

You lost me in your diatribe. Perhaps this "poll" would have been better off in the Colts section and not the NFL General section. Given how many Luck/Manning and Manning/Brady debates I have seen in my short time here, it is not far fetched to assume the intentions of the OP.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, no? I have been saying all along that it is a poor comparison which you seem to agree with sort of. GB, Chicago, Pitt, Dallas would have been better.

 

I am not even sure what rich history means? I think Brady's story is the best story in NFL history, given he was a sixth round pick and may go down as the greatest ever. To me that trumps all else but again just an opinion. We are all entitled to them.

 

   New day same old song & dance it don't matter what section this is posted in you sir would be there with bells on trying to figure a way to work Tom Brady in to the conversation ..  

 

The Colts franchise has a very rich tradition & regardless of Johnny U's opinion or anyone elses The Indianapolis Colts are the franchise .

Baltimore’s first pro football team was a member of the 1947 AAFC. A fan contest produced the Colts name reflecting the great tradition and proud history of horse breeding and racing in the Baltimore region. The original Colts disbanded after the 1950 season but the name was retained when a new Baltimore franchise began play in 1953.

 

This is Colts history no matter where they reside . 

[bayone]

I voted "none of the above." In terms of having rich, storied histories, none of these teams really qualify, IMO, when you hold them up to the Cowboys, Steelers, Bears, Packers, etc-etc.

 

The Patriots have had a great decade and two prior SB appearances, but most of their past would qualify as "infamous" and not "famous." The Broncos? Aside from the Elway era, kind of a middle-of-the-road franchise. The Colts are the closest of the three, but let's face it, the most notable thing in the team's history is a

 

game where the opposing QB guaranteed a win and got it.

 

I won't get into the Indy/Baltimore thing but didn't Unitas himself refuse to acknowledge the team once they moved to Indiana?

 

If forced to choose among the three I'd pick the Colts.

 

Then again... the Patriots have been to 7 Super Bowls, behind only the Steelers and Cowboys. Denver is next with 6.

 

I don't know. Hard to say, lol...

 

In a press conference I vividly remember living in NY at Broadway Joes Restaurant he said once , then never again that I know of  that he never quarenteed it, just went along with the press as why not 

 

Unitas was a blue collar player that Baltimore a blue collar city , at least back then were made for & embraced each other, yes he and other colt players never forgave the move

 

as for me as I earlier mentioned as I lived threw those early years and followed the colts the entire time from  the Rich start  with back to back world champions in 58 & 59 & SB 5 win & yes SB 3 loss with Unitas on sidelines till end as was hurt most of if not all season  to the bad years to the recent good years  from my perspective that entire time is my & colts history & thats why I went colts, I cant separate what i lived threw just like my entire life is my g history , living in NY & Mich , the 1 constant has been a colt fan 

[amfootball]

   New day same old song & dance it don't matter what section this is posted in you sir would be there with bells on trying to figure a way to work Tom Brady in to the conversation ..

 

The Colts franchise has a very rich tradition & regardless of Johnny U's opinion or anyone elses The Indianapolis Colts are the franchise .

Baltimore’s first pro football team was a member of the 1947 AAFC. A fan contest produced the Colts name reflecting the great tradition and proud history of horse breeding and racing in the Baltimore region. The original Colts disbanded after the 1950 season but the name was retained when a new Baltimore franchise began play in 1953.

 

This is Colts history no matter where they reside . 

Thank you for a much happier and dare I say jollier avatar.

[The Old Crow]

You can have your opinion but I have to point out that it is illogical. Johnny Unitas and every QB before and after him since 1984 played in Baltimore. His legacy and accompishments represent the city of Baltimore not Indy. The only part of Baltimore history you have is their name and horseshoe on your helmet.

 

Totally agree with you. The Baltimore Colts/Ravens history is indeed one of the finest in NFL history. While it is technically considered part of the Indy franchise, most NFL fans outside of Indy consider the Baltimore years of the Colts, as belonging to Baltimore.

[amfootball]

Totally agree with you. The Baltimore Colts/Ravens history is indeed one of the finest in NFL history. While it is technically considered part of the Indy franchise, most NFL fans outside of Indy consider the Baltimore years of the Colts, as belonging to Baltimore.

There you are? Where have you been? I have been fighting this battle all day. :-)

[Deathiltis]

Colts no doubt. Not just saying that because I am a Colt fan. The Colt Franchise has had a hand in major turning points in NFL history whether it comes to draft picks, trades, games. This franchise has won NFL Championships, AFC Championships, Super bowls. Has been home to HOF's and MVP's. One of the greatest franchises right out of the gate as the NFL took the shape we've come to know and love. Patriots were nothing before our modern era with Kraft, Brady and Belichick and Denver was nothing before Elway. Denver should bow to us for giving them their 2 lords and saviors Elway and Manning . Colts hands down.

[amfootball]

Colts no doubt. Not just saying that because I am a Colt fan. The Colt Franchise has had a hand in major turning points in NFL history whether it comes to draft picks, trades, games. This franchise has won NFL Championships, AFC Championships, Super bowls. Has been home to HOF's and MVP's. One of the greatest franchises right out of the gate as the NFL took the shape we've come to know and love. Patriots were nothing before our modern era with Kraft, Brady and Belichick and Denver was nothing before Elway. Denver should bow to us for giving them their 2 lords and saviors Elway and Manning . Colts hands down.

You know very little of Patriots history and even less about Denver.

[Deathiltis]

Totally agree with you. The Baltimore Colts/Ravens history is indeed one of the finest in NFL history. While it is technically considered part of the Indy franchise, most NFL fans outside of Indy consider the Baltimore years of the Colts, as belonging to Baltimore.

 

Franchises win football games, not cities. The Colts history came with them to Indianapolis. By that logic the Ravens history should be the sequel to the Browns history, not the Colts. Whiny Baltimore should have built the Colts a new stadium if they wanted them to stay, it's their own fault. The Colts are The Colts no matter which city they are in. This simple fact is a hard one to put through thick skulled football fans who argue the subject.

[Deathiltis]

You know very little of Patriots history and even less about Denver.

I don't believe you know me. I base my logic off super bowl wins. When did Denver or New England (or Boston whatever the * you want to call them) win a super bowl before the era's I mentioned? Ya New England went to the super bowl, but they did not win, so it doesn't matter.

[bayone]

I have no idea what the OPs intentions were, but you seem to be assuming that his purpose was to annoy you in a "Colts-centric" manner. I remind you that this is a Colts board. the only person in this thread who seems to be looking for an argument is you.

 

You were perfectly free to vote "Patriots", or point out (as I did myself) that focusing on three teams - none of whom was remotely involved in the origins of the league - was a bit odd and totally random. However those who respond by mentioning the 49ers (for example) are - just like those who think the answer is the Patriots - seemingly blind to the history of the league. It's one thing to be too young to have witnessed history. It's another to be willfully ignorant of it's existence. When it comes to a "rich" history comparing the Colts, Broncos and Patriots, the first thing that comes to mind is "the greatest game ever played", and an era in which a Colt redefined the QB position while being the face of the league as it first started morphing into the television ratings dominating monstrosity that we all know and love. The other two teams weren't even in the league at the time. You may call it apples and oranges if you want, but the fact that they they simply didn't exist while the Colts were making history means by definition that the Colts have a richer history - in the same way that the fact that the Colts didn't exist while the Bears were dominating the league for decades means that the Bears have a richer history than the Colts. It really isn't that complicated, and your fantastical attempts to irritate "Indianapolis" fans (I've never been within several hundred miles of the city) by pretending that the current team has nothing to do with said history simply defies rationality.

 

 

You'll just do ANYTHING to get under peoples skin, won't you.............. Even if it means stealing the schtick of another   virtually verbatim - one who you've spend hours of your own time fighting with.

 

No interest in arguing against your fantastically absurd argument. It's a waste of time because I don't believe for a second that you even believe it yourself. Just stop already.

 

 

i really don't care either way but if a thread or a poll like this is going to be posted than I think we have to make the distinction as Indy football did not begin until 1984.

 

Really No Offense , but the fact that u didnt realize this was a poll show u never once looked at the top of any page nor the OP , just the title, Mac is thus correct , u seem to just jump on threads to post views opposite the colts as often as possible without even realizing at least in this case that the OP was conducting a poll, u just had to jump in to oppose others views in the style many have become accustomed to'

 

Hope u can enjoy the draft , sure u are as much as zealot in favor of the Pats, & thats good , its your team , but unfortunately it just seems u take the opposite  zealots pleasure in ticking many board members off

 

Not sure if my English is correct but my point is clear

 

Goodnight

[amfootball]

I don't believe you know me. I base my logic off super bowl wins. When did Denver or New England (or Boston whatever the * you want to call them) win a super bowl before the mentioned era's I mentioned? Ya New England went to the super bowl, but they did not win, so it doesn't matter.

Both NE and Denver have more SB wins than the Colts.

[Fx Stryker]

Both NE and Denver have more SB wins than the Colts.

 

Colts have more championships, and even boast a winning record in them.

 

Colts 4-3

 

Patriots 3-5

 

Broncos 2-6

[amfootball]

Really No Offense , but the fact that u didnt realize this was a poll show u never once looked at the top of any page nor the OP , just the title, Mac is thus correct , u seem to just jump on threads to post views opposite the colts as often as possible without even realizing at least in this case that the OP was conducting a poll, u just had to jump in to oppose others views in the style many have become accustomed to'

 

Hope u can enjoy the draft , sure u are as much as zealot in favor of the Pats, & thats good , its your team , but unfortunately it just seems u take the opposite  zealots pleasure in ticking many board members off

 

Not sure if my English is correct but my point is clear

 

Goodnight

Never saw a poll before that is why I missed it.

 

I have enjoyed the draft thus far. Hope you have too.

[Deathiltis]

Both NE and Denver have more SB wins than the Colts.

 

AND? I still don't think you are understanding what I am saying. But I think I'm done here. 

[amfootball]

Colts have more championships, and even boast a winning record in them.

Pats have 7 SB appearances - the only team to have made one or more SBs in the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's.

Denver has 6 appearances and made SBs in 70's, 80's, 90's.

 

Again, you define rich history any way you want but both NE and Denver are right there with the Colts maybe even ahead if you look at the SB era alone.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Totally agree with you. The Baltimore Colts/Ravens history is indeed one of the finest in NFL history. While it is technically considered part of the Indy franchise, most NFL fans outside of Indy consider the Baltimore years of the Colts, as belonging to Baltimore.

 

Com on Crow ol buddy The Baltimore franchise history which is the Ravens history is a fine history but it began in Cleveland & moved to Baltimore where it changed names & if they were to  move to L.A they & all that history would leave with them ..

 

The Baltimore Colts & Indianapolis Colts are one & the same the Irsays made the move its all ancient history now .

[bayone]

Never saw a poll before that is why I missed it.

 

I have enjoyed the draft thus far. Hope you have too.

 

there have been many polls, maybe not on a subject u took note of, I wont ? that 

 

as far as the draft

 

I try but my meds usually knock me out way to early, save for night colt games when i do stay up out of excitement and try skipping  1 dose of 2 meds that I shouldn't but know i can get away with , if i try & watch a night game, i usually get the intro song, falll out and next thing i know is its the post game conference, this even though i am listening threw a quite powerfull  surround sytem thats really bl;asting away with 2 subwoofers as well

 

really have no nighlife, save for going to ER when needed and have done that way more than staying up to watch games or goo out with friends, life is what it is

[amfootball]

there have been many polls, maybe not on a subject u took note of, I wont ? that 

 

as far as the draft

 

I try but my meds usually knock me out way to early, save for night colt games when i do stay up out of excitement and try skipping  1 dose of 2 meds that I shouldn't but know i can get away with , if i try & watch a night game, i usually get the intro song, falll out and next thing i know is its the post game conference, this even though i am listening threw a quite powerfull  surround sytem thats really bl;asting away with 2 subwoofers as well

Draft is earlier tonight 6:30. I think over the weekend it is in the afternoon so hopefully you get to watch more. I find days 2-4 much more exciting than day one.

[Fx Stryker]

Pats have 7 SB appearances - the only team to have made one or more SBs in the 80's, 90's, 00's and 10's.

Denver has 6 appearances and made SBs in 70's, 80's, 90's.

 

Again, you define rich history any way you want but both NE and Denver are right there with the Colts maybe even ahead if you look at the SB era alone.

 

The NFL history doesn't start at the Super Bowl era. So tweak the numbers anyway you want, but that isn't the whole truth.

 

If you want to do that you I would seriously like to hear you argue how the Patriots have a richer history than the Bears.

[bayone]

Draft is earlier tonight 6:30. I think over the weekend it is in the afternoon so hopefully you get to watch more. I find days 2-4 much more exciting than day one.

 

yes maybe I can make the first round, no way the second , will try my best

 

anyway this is last post / comment

[amfootball]

The NFL doesn't start at the Super Bowl era. So tweak the numbers anyway you want, but that isn't the whole truth.

I agree but winning NFL champs when there only a handful of teams is not the same as winning after the merger. Still, all things considered, I think the three franchises are pretty neck and neck...

[Yehoodi]

. .  .   . . .. 50 > 49   . . . .        and 48 > 47.....         . . . . .          he he . . . .

 

 

in other news who can argue with this, i love this picture . . . .

 

http://www.unitaswestand.com/

[Yehoodi]

Back to the discussion of the past page or two, I guess i missed the party . . .

 

It really comes down to how you define a franchise and a frame a question for the most part . . . mostly speaking (absent the present day Browns) most franchises records and history follow where they go city to city . . . whether one might feel that is correct or not . . .

 

given what the OP meant, I think the OP meant to inlcuded the entire colts history both in Balitmore and Indy . . .

 

but certainly one could frame a question just base on the history in Indy, but my guess is the OP meant both cities . . .

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I agree but winning NFL champs when there only a handful of teams is not the same as winning after the merger. Still, all things considered, I think the three franchises are pretty neck and neck...

 

the Dolphins are known for the perfect season the Patriots are known for losing to the Giants who ended there perfect season , If not for Eli Manning  Tommy would have gone to Disney World twice more . The choke word is a word I'v heard alot over the years as a Colts fan watching the latest versions of the Patriots I have to laugh .. Just my opinion ..

[amfootball]

the Dolphins are known for the perfect season the Patriots are known for losing to the Giants who ended there perfect season , If not for Eli Manning  Tommy would have gone to Disney World twice more . The choke word is a word I'v heard alot over the years as a Colts fan watching the latest versions of the Patriots I have to laugh .. Just my opinion ..

you really don't want me to go over Manning's post-season flops, do you? I can start with this year and work backward...

[Vance]

Green Bay beats them all.

[LockeDown]

I guess this whole concept is lost on me. If a franchise in Baltimore up and left and moved to Boston, I would never claim that city's accomplishments as my own. Like I said, the only thing you have is the name and the horseshoe symbol. Ironically, the Baltimore Ravens have a better history than the Indy Colts with two SBs to Indy's one.

 

You haven't lived through one then.  There's a lot of people like me who were Baltimore Colt fans and followed the Colts to Indy.  They have the same uniform, helmet, name, players and owning family.  If the question is which CITY had the best heritage then you would be correct.  But the question is franchise and the Colts franchise moved to Indy.

[amfootball]

You haven't lived through one then.  There's a lot of people like me who were Baltimore Colt fans and followed the Colts to Indy.  They have the same uniform, helmet, name, players and owning family.  If the question is which CITY had the best heritage then you would be correct.  But the question is franchise and the Colts franchise moved to Indy.

Yes, point taken. We have clarified. The Pats almost moved to St. Louis until Kraft bought them. I am sure it must have been awful to see the Colts leave with the uniform and all.

[bayone]

. .  .   . . .. 50 > 49   . . . .        and 48 > 47.....         . . . . .          he he . . . .

 

 

in other news who can argue with this, i love this picture . . . .

 

http://www.unitaswestand.com/

 

 

iconic picture , have the dowload of that game video

[BrentMc11]

you really don't want me to go over Manning's post-season flops, do you? I can start with this year and work backward...

I will answer that one for you....No the forum does not need you to provide flops of our former QB....if you noticed we have some people who absolutely love him!  I just happen to be hanging in his hospital right now....so I will not be pointing out his so called flops.  Thanks PM!  

 

18 provided this Colt fan plenty of excitement...might be why I am in ICU right this second.    

[T Y Goodbye]

You cant deny history and it belongs to this franchise ,doesn't matter if its in Baltimore,Indy or KatmanDu ,its still the same if you like it or you dont

 

Ran out of likes..but I give this post unlimited likes.

[amfootball]

I will answer that one for you....No the forum does not need you to provide flops of our former QB....if you noticed we have some people who absolutely love him!  I just happen to be hanging in his hospital right now....so I will not be pointing out his so called flops.  Thanks PM!  

 

18 provided this Colt fan plenty of excitement...might be why I am in ICU right this second.    

Peace to you man. I was kidding. Adonis likes to ride me about Brady and I ride him about Manning. I have mad respect for #18 on and off the field. I am sure Indy is a better city to live in because of his efforts.

[bayone]

Green Bay beats them all.

 

Packers have as rich a history as anyone for sure , I lived the lombardi t years

[bayone]

Draft is earlier tonight 6:30. I think over the weekend it is in the afternoon so hopefully you get to watch more. I find days 2-4 much more exciting than day one.

 

 

got to see first round not second as predicted, just fell out, and today is for mom, at 94 every moment is precious, esp when not just going to a dr, like this Monday for postop care in AM

 

Have a good weekend

[The Old Crow]

Com on Crow ol buddy The Baltimore franchise history which is the Ravens history is a fine history but it began in Cleveland & moved to Baltimore where it changed names & if they were to  move to L.A they & all that history would leave with them ..

 

The Baltimore Colts & Indianapolis Colts are one & the same the Irsays made the move its all ancient history now .

 

No disrepect to Indy, and I know about the franchise argument and everything, but I still think the history should remain in Baltimore. I know it doesn't, according to the NFL, but I don't quite get Indy fans wanted full credit for Championships that didn't take place in their city. My comparison is that although the St. Loius Browns became the Baltimore Orioles, I would never take credit for the 1944 AL Pennant won in the city of St. Louis. Technically , it is part of Orioles franchise history, but to me it belongs to the city of St. Louis. The Indy record stands on its own post-1984. I know their are some out there that followed the franchise from Indy to Baltimore, and it's all the same to them, but I'm one of the majority that went from the Baltimore Colts to the Baltimore Ravens. I'm just glad the Ravens didn't become the Baltimore Browns and take all the Cleveland history with them. It's just too sticky and makes no sense.

[bayone]

No disrepect to Indy, and I know about the franchise argument and everything, but I still think the history should remain in Baltimore. I know it doesn't, according to the NFL, but I don't quite get Indy fans wanted full credit for Championships that didn't take place in their city. My comparison is that although the St. Loius Browns became the Baltimore Orioles, I would never take credit for the 1944 AL Pennant won in the city of St. Louis. Technically , it is part of Orioles franchise history, but to me it belongs to the city of St. Louis. The Indy record stands on its own post-1984. I know their are some out there that followed the franchise from Indy to Baltimore, and it's all the same to them, but I'm one of the majority that went from the Baltimore Colts to the Baltimore Ravens. I'm just glad the Ravens didn't become the Baltimore Browns and take all the Cleveland history with them. It's just too sticky and makes no sense.

 

 

as i said my reasoning has been that i have been, am & will be a colt fan since mid 1950's onward yet lived in Brooklyn NY and now just north of Detroit since 1980, 

 

I am not a baltimore fan , I am not an Indy Fan ((( No disrespect to 2  great cities in saying that )) ) I am simply  a colt fan & thus for me its always been 1 team , 1 history 

[The Old Crow]

Franchises win football games, not cities. The Colts history came with them to Indianapolis. By that logic the Ravens history should be the sequel to the Browns history, not the Colts. Whiny Baltimore should have built the Colts a new stadium if they wanted them to stay, it's their own fault. The Colts are The Colts no matter which city they are in. This simple fact is a hard one to put through thick skulled football fans who argue the subject.

 

We just have a different perspective in Baltimore about it. To us, it's part of our history. You are right about the stadium, the blue laws, and all that other stuff that were some causes of the move. The politicians in Maryland are just as stupid now, as they were in 1983/84, maybe even more so. If the Indy Colts had moved to LA, and they claimed your 2006 Super Bowl Championship, and put all of your Hall of Famers under LA, you may well have a different perspective on it. I didn't like how we got the Browns to be honest with you. We should have gotten an expansion team immediately like Cleveland, and that whole sordid affair would have never happened. I blame Taglibue and Jack Kent Cooke mainly, but the Irsays also failed to uphold their promise of voting affirmative for an expansion franchise for Baltimore.

 

The fact of the matter is, Baltimore, Indy, and Cleveland are all good NFL towns that support their teams, and deserve teams. My only gripe is where the history belongs, and I think it should always belong to the city. I know that's not the opinion of many, or the NFL, but that is how I feel about it. I'm still a fan of the old Baltimore Colts even though I'm a Ravens fan now. For the majority in Baltimore that think like I do, the Indy Colts are a seperate franchise that began in 1984. I think most of the bitterness is gone from the move, but most are still perplexed by Indy fans latching onto old history that happened in Baltimore, and that most were not part of.  That is what we don't understand, and although we may appear thick-skulled, it's not a bad thing to like the old Baltimore Colts. It is like the Jackie Robinson story, 42, and making out like everything took place in LA, and nothing happened in Brooklyn.

[The Old Crow]

as i said my reasoning has been that i have been, am & will be a colt fan since mid 1950's onward yet lived in Brooklyn NY and now just north of Detroit since 1980, 

 

I am not a baltimore fan , I am not an Indy Fan ((( No disrespect to 2  great cities in saying that )) ) I am simply  a colt fan & thus for me its always been 1 team , 1 history 

 

 

I get it. There may be possibly 5 % of the population in Baltimore that followed the Colts from Baltimore to Indy. You would be in the minority in Baltimore, but you're a pure horseshoes kind of guy. You'd like them even if they moved to LA, or something. I've compartmentalized two eras of Baltimore football, the Baltimore Colts and the Baltimore Ravens. To me, phase one ended in 1984, and phase two started in 1996. As I attended many of the games, and enjoyed the Championships and players of both teams, this arrangement works for me. Just because the Ravens are the current Baltimore team, I will never disavow the old Baltimore Colts. To me, the Indy Colts are a great franchise post-1984, but different than the Baltimore Colts. This is the view of about 95% of the people in Baltimore. I think when fans outside of the Indy Colts, or the Ravens argue about how many Championships they have, they will not give the Ravens or the Indy Colts credit for the Baltimore Colt's Championships. It is almost like they are in limbo. If Baltimore claims them, they will tell you it's not your franchise, and if Indy claims them they will tell you it didn't happen in your city. Just an observation, and if you think I'm wrong, bring up the subject with a fan from another city.

[Fx Stryker]

Why does one have to have full claim? Honestly.

 

As a franchise we have 4 championships. As a city Baltimore has 5 championships. We share claim to 3 of them.

 

I've always seen the Ravens as our sister team. If the Colts ever ceased to exist I would probably jump over to the Ravens, after decades of grieving, because Baltimore is our old home.

[bayone]

I get it. There may be possibly 5 % of the population in Baltimore that followed the Colts from Baltimore to Indy. You would be in the minority in Baltimore, but you're a pure horseshoes kind of guy. You'd like them even if they moved to LA, or something. I've compartmentalized two eras of Baltimore football, the Baltimore Colts and the Baltimore Ravens. To me, phase one ended in 1984, and phase two started in 1996. As I attended many of the games, and enjoyed the Championships and players of both teams, this arrangement works for me. Just because the Ravens are the current Baltimore team, I will never disavow the old Baltimore Colts. To me, the Indy Colts are a great franchise post-1984, but different than the Baltimore Colts. This is the view of about 95% of the people in Baltimore. I think when fans outside of the Indy Colts, or the Ravens argue about how many Championships they have, they will not give the Ravens or the Indy Colts credit for the Baltimore Colt's Championships. It is almost like they are in limbo. If Baltimore claims them, they will tell you it's not your franchise, and if Indy claims them they will tell you it didn't happen in your city. Just an observation, and if you think I'm wrong, bring up the subject with a fan from another city.

 

 

Though grew up in Brooklyn , for me Respect your opinion  but for  me in 55 years of being a sports fan , no matter the sport I have always showed the same allegiance to same team no matter where that team moved to  & get this only the dodgers were a NY team , my older brother raised me on teams he liked based on their great players of the time plus while already a colt fan first pack of cards had a Unitas Rookie in it

 

Have a good day