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Pats sign Vollmer

amfootball

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amfootball

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How does Vollmer get re-signed at $4.25M a year, and we signed Cherilus for $7M a year? Obviously I'm no scout, but I thought the general consensus was that Vollmer is the all around better OT.

Vollmer has had some injury issues. But 7Mil does seem like a lot.

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How does Vollmer get re-signed at $4.25M a year, and we signed Cherilus for $7M a year? Obviously I'm no scout, but I thought the general consensus was that Vollmer is the all around better OT.

Like they said...back surgeries. That's why Vollmer has 9m in incentives.

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How does Vollmer get re-signed at $4.25M a year, and we signed Cherilus for $7M a year? Obviously I'm no scout, but I thought the general consensus was that Vollmer is the all around better OT.

Back injuries, and the Colts definitely overpaid. By quite a bit.

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How does Vollmer get re-signed at $4.25M a year, and we signed Cherilus for $7M a year? Obviously I'm no scout, but I thought the general consensus was that Vollmer is the all around better OT.

 

Cherilus was signed early in free agency. The Patriots didn't sign Volmer until the market was set. They basically wanted to see what other, comparable tackles were getting. He was also coming off some back and knee issues, which I'm sure turned off a couple teams.

 

The Colts probably could have gotten Cherilus for less and/or held out a bit longer and gotten the same caliber player for less money. It's easy to second guess, but that signing didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time. It's like bidding on an item without anyone else making any bids... you want to see what the market is first.

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Cherilus was signed early in free agency. The Patriots didn't sign Volmer until the market was set. They basically wanted to see what other, comparable tackles were getting. He was also coming off some back and knee issues, which I'm sure turned off a couple teams.

 

The Colts probably could have gotten Cherilus for less and/or held out a bit longer and gotten the same caliber player for less money. It's easy to second guess, but that signing didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time. It's like bidding on an item without anyone else making any bids... you want to see what the market is first.

 

Yeah I felt we did that on a number of signings, but I have liked the Cherilus one from the beginning. I'd of rather gotten Vollmer, back injuries seem overblown, for 4.5M a year though.

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Yeah I felt we did that on a number of signings, but I have liked the Cherilus one from the beginning. I'd of rather gotten Vollmer, back injuries seem overblown, for 4.5M a year though.

 

In your GM's defense, you never know how the market will set itself, especially this year. Rather than missing out on someone they wanted they might've overpaid a little. But it's not like the cap room's not there.

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dw49

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Cherilus was signed early in free agency. The Patriots didn't sign Volmer until the market was set. They basically wanted to see what other, comparable tackles were getting. He was also coming off some back and knee issues, which I'm sure turned off a couple teams.

 

The Colts probably could have gotten Cherilus for less and/or held out a bit longer and gotten the same caliber player for less money. It's easy to second guess, but that signing didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time. It's like bidding on an item without anyone else making any bids... you want to see what the market is first.

 

 

I think everyone is way off base comparing these two contracts. It is not one guy getting 7.5 mill and the other getting 4.5 mill. You have to be able to look into the 9 mill in incentives to even BEGIN to compare contracts. The incentives coud be very easy to achieve or very difficult. Do you or the others have an info regarding that. Also the signing bonus are 10 mill comared to 7 mill. Not that terribly different. 

 

Furthermore , does anyone really know how each guy was regarded by other teams ? Is Volmer really that great of a player ? If so , why didn't he receive the interest from other teams. Now , I'm assuming they weren't knocking his door down as we just heard nothing at all about teams going after him. How plays did anyone on this forum observe either guy ? Yea .. the few Pat fans saw Volmer. But IMO , this is more talking head stuff. I really don't know how good each guy is ...

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Cherilus was signed early in free agency. The Patriots didn't sign Volmer until the market was set. They basically wanted to see what other, comparable tackles were getting. He was also coming off some back and knee issues, which I'm sure turned off a couple teams.

 

The Colts probably could have gotten Cherilus for less and/or held out a bit longer and gotten the same caliber player for less money. It's easy to second guess, but that signing didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time. It's like bidding on an item without anyone else making any bids... you want to see what the market is first.

The patriots were able to wait because there wasn't much interest from other teams. Nobody wanted to fork over $$$ for 6'8 tackle with two back surgeries on his résumé.

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I think everyone is way off base comparing these two contracts. It is not one guy getting 7.5 mill and the other getting 4.5 mill. You have to be able to look into the 9 mill in incentives to even BEGIN to compare contracts. The incentives coud be very easy to achieve or very difficult. Do you or the others have an info regarding that. Also the signing bonus are 10 mill comared to 7 mill. Not that terribly different. 

 

Furthermore , does anyone really know how each guy was regarded by other teams ? Is Volmer really that great of a player ? If so , why didn't he receive the interest from other teams. Now , I'm assuming they weren't knocking his door down as we just heard nothing at all about teams going after him. How plays did anyone on this forum observe either guy ? Yea .. the few Pat fans saw Volmer. But IMO , this is more talking head stuff. I really don't know how good each guy is ...

 

I watch as much football as the next guy but I admittedly can't tell you the fundamental differences between "player A" and "player B" when it comes to positions on the o-line. Too tough to tell, sometimes, what a blocker's assignment is, etc. Usually you only notice a lineman when your quarterback is on his knees in the backfield, feeling around on the turf with his hands and trying to find his head.

 

 

The patriots were able to wait because there wasn't much interest from other teams. Nobody wanted to fork over $$$ for 6'8 tackle with two back surgeries on his résumé.

 

I have no idea if any teams contacted Volmer. Articles about him during free agency pretty much all stated that the Patriots were "waiting for the market to set his value" before making an offer. Long (Miami) was the guy who was supposedly going to set that market for tackles. It held true at least in the sense that Volmer was signed soon after Long was picked up by the Rams.

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I watch as much football as the next guy but I admittedly can't tell you the fundamental differences between "player A" and "player B" when it comes to positions on the o-line. Too tough to tell, sometimes, what a blocker's assignment is, etc. Usually you only notice a lineman when your quarterback is on his knees in the backfield, feeling around on the turf with his hands and trying to find his head.

 

 

 

I have no idea if any teams contacted Volmer. Articles about him during free agency pretty much all stated that the Patriots were "waiting for the market to set his value" before making an offer. Long (Miami) was the guy who was supposedly going to set that market for tackles. It held true at least in the sense that Volmer was signed soon after Long was picked up by the Rams.

 

 

 

You fail to address that once Cherlius plays year one for the Colts the guaranteed money for the two is pretty much the same. Cherlius got a 10 mill signing bonus and the first year of his contract as guaranteed money. I think Volmer received a 7 mill signing bonus and another 1.5 in guaranteed money. This was my major point in this thread. Also if Volmer does not miss an abnormal amount of games due to injury , does his contract look more like 4 years 27 mill ? The point here is it's just not real bright for people to say it's 4.5 mill compared to 7 mill. You have to look at the guaranteed money , how the base salaries might be backloaded and just WHAT ARE THE INCENTIVES. I wouldthink much of the incentive money would depend on games played .

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You fail to address that once Cherlius plays year one for the Colts the guaranteed money for the two is pretty much the same. Cherlius got a 10 mill signing bonus and the first year of his contract as guaranteed money. I think Volmer received a 7 mill signing bonus and another 1.5 in guaranteed money. This was my major point in this thread. Also if Volmer does not miss an abnormal amount of games due to injury , does his contract look more like 4 years 27 mill ? The point here is it's just not real bright for people to say it's 4.5 mill compared to 7 mill. You have to look at the guaranteed money , how the base salaries might be backloaded and just WHAT ARE THE INCENTIVES. I wouldthink much of the incentive money would depend on games played .

 

I'm not disagreeing, and I don't have a strong opinion myself, but the general consensus was that the Colts jumped on this early and were basically bidding against themselves for Cherilus' services.

 

You're right in that they're similar deals. But when both players are healthy (and Cherilus has had his share of knee issues also) I think Vollmer is the far better player (again, based on sources, because I'm not going to lie and tell you that I'm smart enough to notice the subtle differences between two right tackles, one of whom I've probably seen play about six times total).

 

Here's some detail on Vollmer's deal:

 

http://musketfire.com/2013/03/26/new-england-patriots-analysis-sebastian-vollmer-contract-details/

 

$17 million base salaries over four years, with incentives up to $27M and $8.25 million guaranteed for the life of the deal.

 

From what I can find, Cherilus got 5 years at $35M, a $10 million signing bonus and another $5+ million guaranteed.

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This has been a really weird free agency. I thought Vollmer would have cost more, and all things considered, I would have been happier paying him the money the Pats are paying him than I am with us paying Cherilus what we're paying him. But it's not a straight across comparison, and if we offered Vollmer the contract he just signed with the Pats, he probably would have turned us down.

 

As I've said several times, I think our front office identified the guys they wanted and went after them. Vollmer might have been the next call Grigson would have made after Cherilus, which would make a ton of sense (I think Vollmer's injuries are more concerning than Cherilus'). But bottom line, we got a highly rated right tackle, and we paid about the going rate for that position.

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I'm not disagreeing, and I don't have a strong opinion myself, but the general consensus was that the Colts jumped on this early and were basically bidding against themselves for Cherilus' services.

 

You're right in that they're similar deals. But when both players are healthy (and Cherilus has had his share of knee issues also) I think Vollmer is the far better player (again, based on sources, because I'm not going to lie and tell you that I'm smart enough to notice the subtle differences between two right tackles, one of whom I've probably seen play about six times total).

 

Here's some detail on Vollmer's deal:

 

http://musketfire.com/2013/03/26/new-england-patriots-analysis-sebastian-vollmer-contract-details/

 

$17 million base salaries over four years, with incentives up to $27M and $8.25 million guaranteed for the life of the deal.

 

From what I can find, Cherilus got 5 years at $35M, a $10 million signing bonus and another $5+ million guaranteed.

 

 

We have no idea if the Colts were bidding against themselves. Just more "talking head stuff." Maybe ..maybe not. As I said with Cherlius' guaranteed money , it's 10 mill plus the 5.5 1st year salary that's guaranteed. So after year 1 , both teams would have pretty much the same "exposure going forward. Colts would have 10 mill minus (10,000,000 div by 5) 2 million = 8 mill. The pats would have 7 mill minus around 1.8 plus the other mill or so guaranteed or 6.2 going forward. I guess you could say that Cherlius deal was really around 11.5 signing bonus as the 5.5 first year salary , guaranteed , is a large 1st year base. So in all fairness , make his signing bonus a little larger for comparison.

 

As far as Volmer being the better player , I'm not sure he was in 2012. Cherlius was " said " to have played at a very high level. He was tremendous in pass protection as Stafford dropped back on most downs and since the Lions were pretty stinky , I would think they were in a lot of obvious passing downs. For a RT to give up just 4 sacks under those conditions was very impressive. Hopefuly for the Colt's , last year was Cherlius developing and playing up to his 1.12 draft spot. 

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