Grigs legacy begins to take shape

[jwilli69]

Ok so last year it begin and was pretty easy to pick from the first position of the draft in each round and an expectation that the team would be 4-12 at best. The decision was made to clear out older players and eat the cap hit and retool (even if they later claimed that wasn't the case). Grigs found some good value in the lower tier FA market and got some players that balled well for the colts at a cheap price. One of the more daring moves he made was to trade a (expected) high 2nd rd pick for disgruntled vonte Davis and that seems to have turned out to the Colts advantage so far. The team over achieved and had a playoff season with a bunch of avg players and a really crappy oline. All this happened with no expectations to win.

Lets forward to this year. The Colts have now moved from low expectations to playoff contender from here out. They come into the year with an elite in the making QB with a year in the league. They had an ability to get any FA they wanted to get and improve the team. They have some players from last year that is expected to step up and make significant contributions like Chapman and Whalen and to a bigger extent, Fleener.

This collection of free agents will be looked over all year and then scrutinized if any falter. Colts could have taken Vasquez or Levitre and everyone would have said that was the best signings for the Colts to improve that putrid oline. Grigs went his own way and took a back up gaurd and a RT that wasn't getting large attention in the press before hand. Everyone knows our oline was god awful too so that will be bad news for Grigs if the line under performs while broncos and titans line improves with their moves.

With all the cb's on the market and the high profile guys avail, we took toler. While it seems to be way better than Vaughn was for us, was it the best avail at 5 mil/yr?

The DT/DE we just signed, it was a needed position and he seems to be an up and comer. Did we pay the right amount though?

The biggest questions for me though are the hurry to sign those 2 LB's and how much we gave the back up from GB. 4 mil/yr seems real steep for potential not yet displayed on the field. Sidbury at least sounds like a backup paid like a backup.

Landry will also be a microscope player. Large name with a big salary. 6 mil/yr for a big name with injury concerns and suspect tackling. There were several good quality safety's avail and we jumped early with a big ticket guy.

All this said, I like the moves mostly. Skeptical about the one LB paid like a above avg starter. Grigs will be judge on the value for what he has done this year. Will it be wow, that Colt GM overpaid avg players and set back the team with misjudged talent evaluations or will it be that GM, who was selected as EOY, absolutely has an eye for talent and paid players market value. Only a year in will he be able to be judged on that.

I think there is room for Grigs to learn the cap mgmt, letting good players walk as opposed to getting a good deal from the team and being able to get some of this player deals like those that the broncos seemed to have gotten with good players for less than market it seems.

Btw, none of this is a bash on Grigs, just pointing out things he will get boosted up for or laughed at over the course of this year. Draft is going to be factored in as well.

[lollygagger8]

So far, there's very little to complain about. Grigson has been stellar so far and I trust his decision making to the fullest.

 

 

 

 

 

IN GRIGS WE TRUST!

[AntonMcG]

Good assessment.

 

The draft this year is key to me, I will reiterate my stance that value will lie in OLB/DE early in the draft, Receiver and Guard later... that is what I would like to see but BPA is definitely the best option for a team seeking long-term success like the Colts.

 

We need to keep in mind that no GM gets every call right, you can invest in a players potential but at the end of the day it is up to the player to realize that potential, not GM can see inside a player's head. I believe this FA will prove a success overall, but I don't expect all seven guys to wow me.

 

Cap management, for me, is hugely important considering we are a team starting from scratch.

[LockeDown]

Good assessment.

 

The draft this year is key to me, I will reiterate my stance that value will lie in OLB/DE early in the draft, Receiver and Guard later... that is what I would like to see but BPA is definitely the best option for a team seeking long-term success like the Colts.

 

We need to keep in mind that no GM gets every call right, you can invest in a players potential but at the end of the day it is up to the player to realize that potential, not GM can see inside a player's head. I believe this FA will prove a success overall, but I don't expect all seven guys to wow me.

 

Cap management, for me, is hugely important considering we are a team starting from scratch.

 

Do you have any OLB/DE's in mind?  Every mock I see has us taking Hankins but I thought he was an NT.

[Smonroe]

Just wanted to also point out that Grigs did exactly what he said he'd do in free agency. Whether those players work out or not only time will tell.

I think it's very premature to tell if a player was "overpaid", and I'm not just talking about people on the forum, I'm talking about people who should know better. Like Kirwan and Cross. They said some ridiculous things about our FAs IMO.

You pay a player on what he did in the past balanced against what you think he'll do for your team in the future. And what your team can afford. We didn't break the bank for anyone and filled positions of need. I'm pretty sure Grigs and Pags know what they're doing.

[jwilli69]

So far, there's very little to complain about. Grigson has been stellar so far and I trust his decision making to the fullest.

IN GRIGS WE TRUST!

I have stated as well, it's not a bash on him and I'm not complaining but I am pointing out how quick we will all go from "in Grigs we trust" into that "SOB has to go" with all these questionable moves if they don't work out.

If the 4mil dollar lb flops alone, we won't hear to much other than he took a decent gamble and it didn't work out well, stuff happens. If Toler doesn't play well and the lb fails, people are going to start saying the young GM missed on a couple players that were paid well but may have been over paid on what they had done prior to. Now if that oline plays poorly and a few defensive guys don't pan out, that trust is going to erode fast by the fans and we have all seen it before.

Grigs has stepped out of the box to speak on signings so he has risk to his reputation. Nobody gets anywhere though without taking on risk. What I'm basically contrasting is his year one first GM role moves and getting the EOY for achieving success with the team to a second year with now high expectations to succeed. He can't miss too much an expect to still be thought of as a successful GM by the league. I'm hoping his risks were well thought out in terms of great fits for a team concept as opposed to this "guy" is really great for us but won't make a team approach better. Team approach has served the Patriots well over the years IMO. Getting great players who don't fit the team approach is what has killed the redskins, cowboys and many other teams who have lots of money and build their teams around guys instead of team.

I think Grigs has the team build in mind with money to spend, time is going to tell whether he bought the right people or did he try and get tricky and pick too far out of the box. Lets see how he manages a draft not picking #1 and far from it.

[Valpo2004]

I'm suspicious of some of the signings as well.  But he has earned the right for me to reserve judgement until we see what happens on the field.  

[Warhorse]

I have stated as well, it's not a bash on him and I'm not complaining but I am pointing out how quick we will all go from "in Grigs we trust" into that "*** has to go" with all these questionable moves if they don't work out.

 

Please do not make such broad inclusive statements. I would not do such a thing.

 

What our front office has done quite well, is put us in a position to draft the BPA rather than reaching. No draft ever works out completely, nor does any FA class. For once, however, we have actually been active when there were players available who still had a heartbeat. Your post seems to sound like you're standing there, arms crossed, waiting for our GM to prove himself to you ....... that's your prerogative. I, on the other hand, have strong belief in this GM after he accomplished incredible things last year with 2 arms and a leg tied behind his back. I will take his successes along with his failures. Feel free to be as critical as you want, just don't include me in it.

[Mameluc]

I dont agree with Cherilus...the guy was having attention, since there was a supposed bidding war for him. he plays on a low market team but that doesnt mean he wasnt gettin attention.

[Smurphy1]

I would point out that we were not going to get Vasquez. He went to the broncos for only 6 mil/yr when he could have easily gotten more elsewhere. There is only one good explanation why someone would do that, they want to go to a team that they feel gives them a good chance for a super bowl. He wasn't going to come here unless we paid way, way, way too much.

[jwilli69]

Please do not make such broad inclusive statements. I would not do such a thing.

What our front office has done quite well, is put us in a position to draft the BPA rather than reaching. No draft ever works out completely, nor does any FA class. For once, however, we have actually been active when there were players available who still had a heartbeat. Your post seems to sound like you're standing there, arms crossed, waiting for our GM to prove himself to you ....... that's your prerogative. I, on the other hand, have strong belief in this GM after he accomplished incredible things last year with 2 arms and a leg tied behind his back. I will take his successes along with his failures. Feel free to be as critical as you want, just don't include me in it.

Well warhorse I call nonsense here. If the GM fails to deliver players from a free agent market when we ha a lot of cash and warm fuzzy feelings, I believe you as well as the majority of the posters will question the moves made. Am I standing here hoping he fails so I can say ha, I pointed it out,nope not at all. I am pointing out that if a man who made what seemed to be interesting calls that panned out last year when we were in major rebuild mode and most worked out well got him lots of love and EOY, I am contrasting what will occur here if his what seems like some interesting choices do not pan out well for him in a year where optimism was high. Heck, we already have multiple threads where people are not digging the picks but most are giving Grigs the benefit o the doubt in his choices because of last seasons turnout. I am doing the same, credit the man for picking players who I have not seen called out for the team except Landry maybe. I trust Grigs ability to choose any player he wants for the team to make it better over my evaluation of any player, he has tape and people to do research and talk with them, I don't and wouldn't want to.

Trust only goes so far and if you miss more than you hit, will you still have the mantra of I trust him?

So get off your hypersensitive box and I will accept you as the only loyal person in the world who is unconditional in The GM ;)

[coltsfanmilyman]

Well warhorse I call * here. If the GM fails to deliver players from a free agent market when we ha a lot of cash and warm fuzzy feelings, I believe you as well as the majority of the posters will question the moves made. Am I standing here hoping he fails so I can say ha, I pointed it out,nope not at all. I am pointing out that if a man who made what seemed to be interesting calls that panned out last year when we were in major rebuild mode and most worked out well got him lots of love and EOY, I am contrasting what will occur here if his what seems like some interesting choices do not pan out well for him in a year where optimism was high. Heck, we already have multiple threads where people are not digging the picks but most are giving Grigs the benefit o the doubt in his choices because of last seasons turnout. I am doing the same, credit the man for picking players who I have not seen called out for the team except Landry maybe. I trust Grigs ability to choose any player he wants for the team to make it better over my evaluation of any player, he has tape and people to do research and talk with them, I don't and wouldn't want to.

Trust only goes so far and if you miss more than you hit, will you still have the mantra of I trust him?

So get off your hypersensitive box and I will accept you as the only loyal person in the world who is unconditional in The GM ;)

 

What has he missed?  He hasn't had enough opportunity to do bad yet.  No one is ever gonna bat .100 but as far as I'm concerned he's played "moneyball" if you will.  Instead of blowing cash on a few boom or bust pieces, he spread it over 7 players.  Also these contracts may look scary at first are generally pretty cost effective and wont strap us if they bust.

 

People need to realize that just because Polian isn't here, doesn't mean we are gonna get starstruck and pay too much money.  Irsay is a smart man, he also has a great FO to help him and I believe that our FO has gotten this team poised to not only take back the AFCSouth but be more than just a one and done in the playoffs.

[throwing BBZ]

Irsay is giddy after making a pretty good RT the highest paid.
We got the two years running, lowest rated OLB, at $4M per.
And a slap in the face rehire of Vaughn, the lowest rated FA CB.

The memory of Olson, Satelle, Zibby, McGlynn and Justice at times, CB Brandon King. Ugh!

 Last year we did have a hugely hamstrung 5-11 at best Roster with our weaker schedule.
Now we have a 8-8 Roster for a supposedly next level schedule.
 And Andrew! And Coach P!

 Griggs had a Gimme draft the first 3 picks, more value out of T.Y. than anyone could expect. And a nice RB who was POOR in pass protection.

 The Colts are in good hands all in all. But not without blemishes already.JMO
 
 

[coltsfanmilyman]

BBS,

 

Not to mention Freeman out of the CFL and Butler during the year,  I think the FA knows what they are doing.

[luckyblue]

It's hard to say if Grigson made the right moves or not, there were alot of big names out there, where we had the money to get some of those guys. To be honest the majority of the guys we did get, I had never heard of them at all! So if most of these guys that we got do pan out then Grigson is a magician, but if most all of them don't turn out then unfortunately we will be calling Grigson, a name I can't say on here. I guess " only time will tell "

[AntonMcG]

Well warhorse I call * here. If the GM fails to deliver players from a free agent market when we ha a lot of cash and warm fuzzy feelings, I believe you as well as the majority of the posters will question the moves made. Am I standing here hoping he fails so I can say ha, I pointed it out,nope not at all. I am pointing out that if a man who made what seemed to be interesting calls that panned out last year when we were in major rebuild mode and most worked out well got him lots of love and EOY, I am contrasting what will occur here if his what seems like some interesting choices do not pan out well for him in a year where optimism was high. Heck, we already have multiple threads where people are not digging the picks but most are giving Grigs the benefit o the doubt in his choices because of last seasons turnout. I am doing the same, credit the man for picking players who I have not seen called out for the team except Landry maybe. I trust Grigs ability to choose any player he wants for the team to make it better over my evaluation of any player, he has tape and people to do research and talk with them, I don't and wouldn't want to.

Trust only goes so far and if you miss more than you hit, will you still have the mantra of I trust him?

So get off your hypersensitive box and I will accept you as the only loyal person in the world who is unconditional in The GM ;)

 

It will take a few more than a few players not panning out for me to start to question Grigson. Show me the GM who hasn't had players not work out for him. As I said previously, the GM can only go as far as seeing the potential in a player and hopefully getting to know him from a character standpoint. But the player still has to perform, and that is up to them.

 

Mike Mayock said a few days ago that the best Pro Day he ever saw in his career was Jamarcus Russell. And interviews apparently went well with him, he told people what they wanted to hear. But when it came down to it, he got his money and didn't put the work in, even though the ability was there.Player's don't always work out, even if everything says that they should. More accountability needs to be put on the players some times, not the guys who brought them in.

 

What I like about Grigson's work is he has went for scheme fits, that help this defense play their system.

 

I don't understand the logic in people attempting to point out that if he fails, people will turn on him, maybe some will, but why bring it up? It just seems like such a pessimistic attitude, and to me, is just people who have to go against the grain and say something that they think hasn't been said to come across as having an air of higher intellect and understanding than the rest of us. 

 

If you don't like players, that is fine, explain why you don't like them and move on. But to start bringing up a potential fan revolt of someone who has done a great job thus far, is just stupid.

[Andy]

It will take a few more than a few players not panning out for me to start to question Grigson. Show me the GM who hasn't had players not work out for him. As I said previously, the GM can only go as far as seeing the potential in a player and hopefully getting to know him from a character standpoint. But the player still has to perform, and that is up to them.

 

Mike Mayock said a few days ago that the best Pro Day he ever saw in his career was Jamarcus Russell. And interviews apparently went well with him, he told people what they wanted to hear. But when it came down to it, he got his money and didn't put the work in, even though the ability was there.Player's don't always work out, even if everything says that they should. More accountability needs to be put on the players some times, not the guys who brought them in.

 

What I like about Grigson's work is he has went for scheme fits, that help this defense play their system.

 

I don't understand the logic in people attempting to point out that if he fails, people will turn on him, maybe some will, but why bring it up? It just seems like such a pessimistic attitude, and to me, is just people who have to go against the grain and say something that they think hasn't been said to come across as having an air of higher intellect and understanding than the rest of us. 

 

If you don't like players, that is fine, explain why you don't like them and move on. But to start bringing up a potential fan revolt of someone who has done a great job thus far, is just stupid.

 

I'd like to add that he was high on codeine during that pro day. No joke.

 

Just a side note

[Warhorse]

Well warhorse I call * here. If the GM fails to deliver players from a free agent market when we ha a lot of cash and warm fuzzy feelings, I believe you as well as the majority of the posters will question the moves made. Am I standing here hoping he fails so I can say ha, I pointed it out,nope not at all. I am pointing out that if a man who made what seemed to be interesting calls that panned out last year when we were in major rebuild mode and most worked out well got him lots of love and EOY, I am contrasting what will occur here if his what seems like some interesting choices do not pan out well for him in a year where optimism was high. Heck, we already have multiple threads where people are not digging the picks but most are giving Grigs the benefit o the doubt in his choices because of last seasons turnout. I am doing the same, credit the man for picking players who I have not seen called out for the team except Landry maybe. I trust Grigs ability to choose any player he wants for the team to make it better over my evaluation of any player, he has tape and people to do research and talk with them, I don't and wouldn't want to.

Trust only goes so far and if you miss more than you hit, will you still have the mantra of I trust him?

So get off your hypersensitive box and I will accept you as the only loyal person in the world who is unconditional in The GM ;)

Seriously? I merely asked, and I said please, to not be included in your own opinion, by stating "We will all". Try "I".

 

Feel free to stand alone in your opinions. Since you included me again in your response, I doubt you will change your mind. Fair enough. Consider my first response a statement to the board in general.....removing myself from your all encompassing post. I will not quote you on such things in the future.

[jwilli69]

What has he missed? He hasn't had enough opportunity to do bad yet. No one is ever gonna bat .100 but as far as I'm concerned he's played "moneyball" if you will. Instead of blowing cash on a few boom or bust pieces, he spread it over 7 players. Also these contracts may look scary at first are generally pretty cost effective and wont strap us if they bust.

People need to realize that just because Polian isn't here, doesn't mean we are gonna get starstruck and pay too much money. Irsay is a smart man, he also has a great FO to help him and I believe that our FO has gotten this team poised to not only take back the AFCSouth but be more than just a one and done in the playoffs.

I don't think anywhere in here did I say he missed anything. People on here will not be warm and fuzzy if I will repeat IF the selections of FA's that were picked up are misses. Nobody thinks all of the pick ups will be super stars or busts but if there start becoming more bad than good, someone will pay for those choices and that will probably be Grigs if they underperform a contract time and again.

[jwilli69]

I don't understand the logic in people attempting to point out that if he fails, people will turn on him, maybe some will, but why bring it up? It just seems like such a pessimistic attitude, and to me, is just people who have to go against the grain

If you don't like players, that is fine, explain why you don't like them and move on. But to start bringing up a potential fan revolt of someone who has done a great job thus far, is just stupid.

Perhaps we should all sing songs by the campfire and eat s'mores together and prevent anyone from speaking theoreticals?? The reason we make posts and discuss our views or provoke answer of our questions is because its a message board and that's what they here for. If you can find anywhere in my statements that say Grigs is terrible or I want him fired or he doesn't know talent, can you please point those out for me because I must have mistyped something. Jeez there are some hypersensitive people in these forums. Love high strung everything is great kinda people. So much fun

[jwilli69]

Seriously? I merely asked, and I said please, to not be included in your own opinion, by stating "We will all". Try "I".

Feel free to stand alone in your opinions. Since you included me again in your response, I doubt you will change your mind. Fair enough. Consider my first response a statement to the board in general.....removing myself from your all encompassing post. I will not quote you on such things in the future.

I'm going to sleep the same tonight either way but you might go back and re read how your response came off before acting as if you were just trying to "merely asking".

[braveheartcolt]

Perhaps we should all sing songs by the campfire and eat s'mores together and prevent anyone from speaking theoreticals?? The reason we make posts and discuss our views or provoke answer of our questions is because its a message board and that's what they here for. If you can find anywhere in my statements that say Grigs is terrible or I want him fired or he doesn't know talent, can you please point those out for me because I must have mistyped something. Jeez there are some hypersensitive people in these forums. Love high strung everything is great kinda people. So much fun

 

Just like to point out that you are coming over more hypersensitive than anyone else. My opinion is that your views are particularly negative and down right tosh. But that is ok, as that is what this forum is for.....yes? 

[AntonMcG]

Perhaps we should all sing songs by the campfire and eat s'mores together and prevent anyone from speaking theoreticals?? The reason we make posts and discuss our views or provoke answer of our questions is because its a message board and that's what they here for. If you can find anywhere in my statements that say Grigs is terrible or I want him fired or he doesn't know talent, can you please point those out for me because I must have mistyped something. Jeez there are some hypersensitive people in these forums. Love high strung everything is great kinda people. So much fun

 

 

Funny I don't remember making such an accusation.

 

Take this for an example.... Andrew Luck had a great rookie year, most if not all were happy for him and we expect great things. All Colts fans seem to be behind him. Now what would be the point in someone coming along and pointing out that is he passes for 2500yds and throws 30 picks, then we will all call him out and argue that he is not the proclaimed savior so many Colts fans thought him to be. Luck should be judged on what he has done and what he is capable of doing, he is young and talented, and should only get better. The same could be said for Grigson. Maybe Grigson does fail, but why be the guy who goes around proclaiming that if he does, we all turn on him? The NFL is a 'What have you done for me lately' industry, as is all of professional sports, and we all know that. But he has given us little reason to believe he cannot continue to perform admirably as our GM.

 

That just seems like a pointless attempt to derail what should be an exciting period to be a Colts fan. You are talking about projections that hold absolutely no merit. Grigson has been a straight shooter from the word go. He has told us his intentions and followed through. He did an incredible job last year and was aggressive in FA. I think he deserves some degree of respect for that, and support from Colts fans in his efforts.

 

Do you think you are creating credible debate by this discussion... let me remind you of your premise.... IF signs come to light that Grigson gets things wrong, we will all turn on him.

 

I liked your original post, a good assessment of how things are right now, but the latter argument is just a pointless exercise in pessimism.