Where would Fleener rank among this yrs tight ends in the draft?

[21isSuperman]

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/coby-fleener?id=2532838 gave Fleener a grade of 85.2.  http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/tyler-eifert?id=2540148 gives Eifert (the top ranked TE this year) a grade of 83.3.  So, by those standards, Fleener would be the best TE in this draft.  Allen was given the best ranking of any TE in that draft and he had a grade of 87.0 (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Dwayne-Allen?id=2533046). I like Fleener, but I would have preferred Upshaw with that pick last year.  But I am fully confident that Fleener can be an absolute monster

[AntonMcG]

I just don't understand the "knocks" on Fleener on this forum. Stop feeding so much into where a player was drafted. They can't control when their name is called. Allen won the TE of the year trophy yet he went all the way to the 3rd round behind Fleener. Rookie year, he did fairly decent. Now he's in his old offense, he'll do fine this year

 

I can solve this conundrum... the knocks on Fleener all seem to originate from threads by the OP of this thread, I believe this is the 3rd or 4th Fleener-bashing-related thread by him... each of which seems to sport an even more irrelevant premise than the last.

 

It has been said time and time again by the same people but I will say it again....

 

1. He was hurt for quite a while mid-season.

2. His numbers were pretty good for a rookie TE.

3. He was sensational in college in this system and with this Coordinator.

4. He was not really given a lot of opportunities under Arians.

5. His downfield blocking was pretty good and something he will continue to improve.

6. He has all the measurables to be an elite TE.

7. Incredible combine coupled with great production against strong opposition in college usually translates to high draft pick.

8. Sometimes young players improve as time goes on in the NFL.

[TKnight24]

I can solve this conundrum... the knocks on Fleener all seem to originate from threads by the OP of this thread, I believe this is the 3rd or 4th Fleener-bashing-related thread by him... each of which seems to sport an even more irrelevant premise than the last.

It has been said time and time again by the same people but I will say it again....

1. He was hurt for quite a while mid-season.

2. His numbers were pretty good for a rookie TE.

3. He was sensational in college in this system and with this Coordinator.

4. He was not really given a lot of opportunities under Arians.

5. His downfield blocking was pretty good and something he will continue to improve.

6. He has all the measurables to be an elite TE.

7. Incredible combine coupled with great production against strong opposition in college usually translates to high draft pick.

7. Sometimes young players improve as time goes on in the NFL.

That's what I'm saying. I think Fleener will be great this year in his old offense

[loudnproudcolt]

I really like Fleener and I too thought he might produce more, but still loved the pick, and the Allen pick also. I think his production will go up a lot this year also. TE's his size and speed are a rare commodity. Also I always listen to what Cris Carter says when talking about receivers and their transition to the pro game. WR is the toughest transition from college to Pro. Carter says you will always see the greatest jump in the 2nd year. He is going in to the HOF and still works out with many of the great receivers today, and I really value his thoughts when it comes to the game and offense, especially WR's, and I consider TE's as WR, especially Fleener, who is much more a receiver than TE.

[Hans Moleman]

IMO, if Fleener was coming out this off-season, he would be the 3rd TE.  Fleener is a 1 dimensional- pass receiving.  Did not block very well in College and did not block very well last season.

 

I strongly disagree with the notion that Fleener didn't block well last season. His blocking was a pleasant surprise because none of the talking heads gave him any credit for it heading in to the draft.

[zhubaba]

IMO, if Fleener was coming out this off-season, he would be the 3rd TE.  Fleener is a 1 dimensional- pass receiving.  Did not block very well in College and did not block very well last season.

 

....and that is the same knock against Eifert and Ertz

Actually, Ertz is a very good blocker but is slower and less athletic than Fleener and Eifert.

[BrentMc11]

I strongly disagree with the notion that Fleener didn't block well last season. His blocking was a pleasant surprise because none of the talking heads gave him any credit for it heading in to the draft.

Fleener was actually very poor in the early one one one drills.  I was scared to death he was a dud blocker.

 

He was as stated by Hans Moleman a "pleasant surprise" as he learned the Colts offense.  With some added muscle this year and Pep's system we will at least get a glimpse of what he will become.

[gacker65]

I strongly disagree with the notion that Fleener didn't block well last season. His blocking was a pleasant surprise because none of the talking heads gave him any credit for it heading in to the draft.

That is the problem, as a TE, you should not be "pleasantly surprised" by his blocking. It should be a foregone fact.

 

If you see any film of Stanford's games Fleener's last year, you would see they ran away from Fleener or brought in another TE to block.

 

I was more impressed with Hilton's blocking than with Fleener's.

[BOTT]

Fleener was actually very poor in the early one one one drills.  I was scared to death he was a dud blocker.

 

He was as stated by Hans Moleman a "pleasant surprise" as he learned the Colts offense.  With some added muscle this year and Pep's system we will at least get a glimpse of what he will become.

Marcus Pollard is a weekly guest on 1070 and he claimed fleener did quite well in blocking for a rookie tight end. Once you get hit with a tag it's hard to shake I guess.....

[SteelCityColt]

That is the problem, as a TE, you should not be "pleasantly surprised" by his blocking. It should be a foregone fact.

 

If you see any film of Stanford's games Fleener's last year, you would see they ran away from Fleener or brought in another TE to block.

 

I was more impressed with Hilton's blocking than with Fleener's.

 You could argue with the evolution of the position that blocking isn't a given for a TE anymore, before you would be "pleasantly surprised" if a TE was a semi-decent receiver as well, now it's a must. 

Blocking can be improved upon with coaching (leverage, angles, technique, film), and it helps somewhat that Allen is such a good blocker, makes this a decent TE tandem. I would say this is easier and more viable to make someone a better blocker than to make someone taller/quicker. 4.51 40 isn't exactly shabby and he certainly has the height to trouble defenses. His hands were questionable last season but I think this was down more to other factors like injury. 

Patience Colts fans, if by the end his Rookie contract we're still having this sort of debate then I will gladly eat me some crow but I can the see the building blocks of a very good player in Fleener given time. 

[BrentMc11]

Marcus Pollard is a weekly guest on 1070 and he claimed fleener did quite well in blocking for a rookie tight end. Once you get hit with a tag it's hard to shake I guess.....

I actually thought he made the greatest strides in blocking.  He was really bad in camp.  I agree that when you "get the tag" it sticks....

[Jason_]

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/coby-fleener?id=2532838 gave Fleener a grade of 85.2.  http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/tyler-eifert?id=2540148 gives Eifert (the top ranked TE this year) a grade of 83.3.  So, by those standards, Fleener would be the best TE in this draft.  Allen was given the best ranking of any TE in that draft and he had a grade of 87.0 (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/Dwayne-Allen?id=2533046). I like Fleener, but I would have preferred Upshaw with that pick last year.  But I am fully confident that Fleener can be an absolute monster

 

 

I can solve this conundrum... the knocks on Fleener all seem to originate from threads by the OP of this thread, I believe this is the 3rd or 4th Fleener-bashing-related thread by him... each of which seems to sport an even more irrelevant premise than the last.

 

It has been said time and time again by the same people but I will say it again....

 

1. He was hurt for quite a while mid-season.

2. His numbers were pretty good for a rookie TE.

3. He was sensational in college in this system and with this Coordinator.

4. He was not really given a lot of opportunities under Arians.

5. His downfield blocking was pretty good and something he will continue to improve.

6. He has all the measurables to be an elite TE.

7. Incredible combine coupled with great production against strong opposition in college usually translates to high draft pick.

8. Sometimes young players improve as time goes on in the NFL.

 

 

I agree with both of you.  I was hoping for Upshaw with that pick but I knew it was going to be Fleener.  I'm not disappointed that we got Fleener because I do truly believe he will be a monster at TE.  I think he's an above average to good blocker and excellent receiver.  However he didn't really flash as a receiver for all the reasons Anton listed. 

 

Also as SteelCityColt said, great blocking is no longer a "given" for a TE.  Now we have receiving TE's and blocking TE's.  Guys that excel at both are fantastic but few and far between.  Fleener is better at blocking, imo, than the typical receiving TE is but obviously he's not going to be as good a blocker as a typical blocking TE would be.  

[Andy]

He'd probably be third behind Ertz and Eifert. There is a pretty big gap between those Ertz and Eifert and the 3rd best guy (Escobar, imo). 

 

So, I believe Fleener is better than Escobar, who's a late 2nd round pick, early third round pick, but just as a tad under Ertz. 

 

Fleener got a huge rise because of the combine. Production wise, both of these guys blow Fleener out of the water and Escobar is much closer to Fleener in that regard. It's a bit ridiculous how much Fleener rose because of that combine. 

[BOTT]

He'd probably be third behind Ertz and Eifert. There is a pretty big gap between those Ertz and Eifert and the 3rd best guy (Escobar, imo). 

 

So, I believe Fleener is better than Escobar, who's a late 2nd round pick, early third round pick, but just as a tad under Ertz. 

 

Fleener got a huge rise because of the combine. Production wise, both of these guys blow Fleener out of the water and Escobar is much closer to Fleener in that regard. It's a bit ridiculous how much Fleener rose because of that combine. 

Those things aren't really true. Ertz and Fleener had comparable career stats....and fleener was always in the conversation as the top tight end in last years draft.

[Jason_]

He'd probably be third behind Ertz and Eifert. There is a pretty big gap between those Ertz and Eifert and the 3rd best guy (Escobar, imo). 

 

So, I believe Fleener is better than Escobar, who's a late 2nd round pick, early third round pick, but just as a tad under Ertz. 

 

Fleener got a huge rise because of the combine. Production wise, both of these guys blow Fleener out of the water and Escobar is much closer to Fleener in that regard. It's a bit ridiculous how much Fleener rose because of that combine. 

 

Once again I'm not sure where you're getting this stuff.  Fleener didn't magically rise because of the combine, he was considered a late 1st to early 2nd round pick for virtually the entire 2nd half of the 2011 season.  He was also consistently rated as the #1 or #2 TE for the entire year ranked only behind Dwayne Allen at times.  Eiffert was consistently rated as the 3rd-4th best TE that year and I don't recall him at any point being rated higher than Fleener.  

 

If either Eiffert or Ertz could have been ranked above Fleener then it might have been Eiffert, however again, during the entire 2011 season when they were both being rated together, that never happened.  

 

As for Ertz, I always contended he was a very good TE and would be considered one of the best this year, but not at any point did I ever think he was better than Fleener.  And I don't believe he was ever considered better by the Stanford coaching staff either assuming they order their depth chart honestly, because I don't think Ertz ever surpassed Fleener on their depth chart.  Ertz did have a breakout year this past year but could it be coincidence that his breakout year came when Fleener was no longer on the team?  when they played together, Fleener consistently out produced Ertz, especially in yards per catch and TDs.

 

so if Fleener were in this year's draft class I don't see any way he possibly would not have been the top rated TE, with the only exception being if he'd been injured for a significant portion of the year and wasn't able to play or if he suddenly turned stupid and got into some off-field trouble.

[Andy]

Those things aren't really true. Ertz and Fleener had comparable career stats....and fleener was always in the conversation as the top tight end in last years draft.

 

 

Allen was the better tight end going into the combine, and because of his mediocre performance and Fleener's superb one, Fleener overtook him.

[BOTT]

Allen was the better tight end going into the combine, and because of his mediocre performance and Fleener's superb one, Fleener overtook him.

Lots of things change leading up to the draft. Allen may have been the top rated TE, but it wasn't by a wide margin.

[Andy]

Once again I'm not sure where you're getting this stuff.  Fleener didn't magically rise because of the combine, he was considered a late 1st to early 2nd round pick for virtually the entire 2nd half of the 2011 season.  He was also consistently rated as the #1 or #2 TE for the entire year ranked only behind Dwayne Allen at times.  Eiffert was consistently rated as the 3rd-4th best TE that year and I don't recall him at any point being rated higher than Fleener.  

 

If either Eiffert or Ertz could have been ranked above Fleener then it might have been Eiffert, however again, during the entire 2011 season when they were both being rated together, that never happened.  

 

As for Ertz, I always contended he was a very good TE and would be considered one of the best this year, but not at any point did I ever think he was better than Fleener.  And I don't believe he was ever considered better by the Stanford coaching staff either assuming they order their depth chart honestly, because I don't think Ertz ever surpassed Fleener on their depth chart.  Ertz did have a breakout year this past year but could it be coincidence that his breakout year came when Fleener was no longer on the team?  when they played together, Fleener consistently out produced Ertz, especially in yards per catch and TDs.

 

so if Fleener were in this year's draft class I don't see any way he possibly would not have been the top rated TE, with the only exception being if he'd been injured for a significant portion of the year and wasn't able to play or if he suddenly turned stupid and got into some off-field trouble.

 

 

Fleener was rated as the #2 tight end for most of the season behind Allen. That's correct. Fleener really rose, and leapfrogged Allen because of his great combine and good pro day. He rose a lot because of his combine. I think had he had a mediocre combine, the Colts don't take him in the 2nd and he probably falls to the end of the round. The combine is the main reason why Fleener rose so much. Allen was the more productive and well polished player even going into the draft. 

 

What impressed me this year is that Ertz put up slightly better numbers than Fleener, and it was in a run heavy offense with a mediocre quarterback. That's good. His blocking is also pretty good. Fleener outproduced Ertz when on the team because Fleener got more snaps, because of his seniority. Had they played the same amount, it would have been much closer. 

 

The reason I don't like this theoretical question of "where would Fleener rank" is because Ertz shined because he was the main tight end and the same for Fleener last year. It would have been much different had they been on the team this year. Eifert impressed at the combine, and impressed a lot this year, and his blocking is getting better.

 

Ertz and Fleener are neck and neck, but Eifert, if you ask me, would be rated higher than Fleener. 

[John Dee]

Andy...  Andy...  Andy...  

 

 

Do you look at stats at all?      And rosters?   I can't believe this.

 

T Eiferts career stat line...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/483387/tyler-eifert

 

Fleener career stat line...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/236965/coby-fleener

 

Z Eartz career stat line... 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/482590/zach-ertz

 

Actually Fleener "blew" these guys out of the water stat wise....        10 TD...      20 ypc ave...   and that was all with the great Zack Eatz starting right beside him.      

 

Seriously...   Andy....    ND hype at work again?

 

 

 

He'd probably be third behind Ertz and Eifert. There is a pretty big gap between those Ertz and Eifert and the 3rd best guy (Escobar, imo). 

 

So, I believe Fleener is better than Escobar, who's a late 2nd round pick, early third round pick, but just as a tad under Ertz. 

 

Fleener got a huge rise because of the combine. Production wise, both of these guys blow Fleener out of the water and Escobar is much closer to Fleener in that regard. It's a bit ridiculous how much Fleener rose because of that combine. 

[crestmount]

I like Allen more than Fleener, and I wouldn't be letting either go--they both showed enough to suggest they will be around for some time

[John Dee]

In 2011 Stanford had a few injuries to it's WR corp.   

 

Stanford rolled with 3 TE's in it's BASE formation much of the season.    And guess what?   Levine Toilolo outproduced Eartz.   And Fleeener was the BIG PLAY target.   

 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/24/year/2011/stanford-cardinal

 

Just sayin..... 

[Andy]

Andy...  Andy...  Andy...  

 

 

Do you look at stats at all?      And rosters?   I can't believe this.

 

T Eiferts career stat line...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/483387/tyler-eifert

 

Fleener career stat line...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/236965/coby-fleener

 

Z Eartz career stat line... 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/482590/zach-ertz

 

Actually Fleener "blew" these guys out of the water stat wise....        10 TD...      20 ypc ave...   and that was all with the great Zack Eatz starting right beside him.      

 

Seriously...   Andy....    ND hype at work again?

 

 

Well let's talk just numbers then... 

 

Ertz' 69 catches, 900 yard, 6 touchdown season, beats Fleener's 34 catch 667 yard 10 touchdown season. Ertz did it in his junior year with a nobody whereas Fleener did it in his senior year with Luck. 

 

As for the Ertz vs Fleener at the same time. It was obvious that Fleener got the majority of the time and that he was the main TE there in 2011. Even with that being said, Ertz did quite well in 2011. 27 catches for 346 yards and 4 TDs is solid for a sophomore who's playing behind a junior. Fleener only had 28 catches for 434 yards and 7 touchdowns. That isn't overly impressive.

 

I believe that Ertz is the slightly better TE, but really not by much. Eifert I think is better than both of those guys. 

 

Eifert managed to keep up his numbers over the last 2 seasons as a sophomore and junior. He put up amazing numbers for a sophomore and put up very good numbers for a junior considering they had a freshman QB. He's more of a receiver than Fleener and Ertz. His blocking may not be as good as either of those Stanford guys. 

 

Just my opinion. I believe both of the guys in this year's class have Fleener slightly beat. 

[Jason_]

Fleener was rated as the #2 tight end for most of the season behind Allen. That's correct. Fleener really rose, and leapfrogged Allen because of his great combine and good pro day. He rose a lot because of his combine. I think had he had a mediocre combine, the Colts don't take him in the 2nd and he probably falls to the end of the round. The combine is the main reason why Fleener rose so much. Allen was the more productive and well polished player even going into the draft. 

 

What impressed me this year is that Ertz put up slightly better numbers than Fleener, and it was in a run heavy offense with a mediocre quarterback. That's good. His blocking is also pretty good. Fleener outproduced Ertz when on the team because Fleener got more snaps, because of his seniority. Had they played the same amount, it would have been much closer. 

 

The reason I don't like this theoretical question of "where would Fleener rank" is because Ertz shined because he was the main tight end and the same for Fleener last year. It would have been much different had they been on the team this year. Eifert impressed at the combine, and impressed a lot this year, and his blocking is getting better.

 

Ertz and Fleener are neck and neck, but Eifert, if you ask me, would be rated higher than Fleener. 

 

I'll give you that Allen was the more polished, more all-around TE in regards to receiving and blocking and more pro-ready....however, Fleener's was still a hot commodity because of the potential he has due to his size and athleticism.  Like I said, Fleener was considered as a late 1st to early 2nd round prospect for the majority of the season.  I think if anything, Allen may have dropped a little instead of Fleener rising.  The combine only proved what people already knew about Fleener...that he was freakishly athletic for a guy his size.  

 

I do think that Eiffert is very close to Fleener but I would put Fleener slightly ahead of Eiffert as opposed to the other way around.  However I do think they're very close so you saying you put Eiffert slightly higher isn't all that far-fetched.  Ertz being better IS  bit farfetched in my opinion.  If he were the superior TE then he would have been higher on the depth chart and a higher priority target than Fleener when they played together.  however that was not the case.  Fleener was clearly the #1 TE on the Stanford depth chart and he was a top target for Luck.  Ertz (and Toilolo) got their catches when the receivers and Fleener were covered.  They were the outlets whereas Fleener was a priority target.  And I don't buy for a second that Fleener was ahead on the depth chart because he had a year of seniority.  Stanford was going for the national championship and as such I can't see them taking seniority into account when creating the depth chart.  They're going to play the players that give them the best chance to win.  If Ertz were the superior TE then he would have been above Fleener on the depth chart.  

 

I do think that Ertz had a very good year this past year but I also think his numbers were higher because Fleener was gone.  They no longer had 3 good TE's but rather 2.  I think if anything, Ertz's numbers prove he is a superior TE to Toilolo.  However, for Ertz to be the superior TE to Fleener it would have to have been due to the progression he made in 2012, but it's difficult to say that he progressed to the point that he would have surpassed Fleener because Fleener could have progressed as well had he still been at the collegiate level rather than spending the year adapting at the NFL level.

[AntonMcG]

Fleener was rated as the #2 tight end for most of the season behind Allen. That's correct. Fleener really rose, and leapfrogged Allen because of his great combine and good pro day. He rose a lot because of his combine. I think had he had a mediocre combine, the Colts don't take him in the 2nd and he probably falls to the end of the round. The combine is the main reason why Fleener rose so much. Allen was the more productive and well polished player even going into the draft. 

 

What impressed me this year is that Ertz put up slightly better numbers than Fleener, and it was in a run heavy offense with a mediocre quarterback. That's good. His blocking is also pretty good. Fleener outproduced Ertz when on the team because Fleener got more snaps, because of his seniority. Had they played the same amount, it would have been much closer. 

 

The reason I don't like this theoretical question of "where would Fleener rank" is because Ertz shined because he was the main tight end and the same for Fleener last year. It would have been much different had they been on the team this year. Eifert impressed at the combine, and impressed a lot this year, and his blocking is getting better.

 

Ertz and Fleener are neck and neck, but Eifert, if you ask me, would be rated higher than Fleener. 

 

Andy, for a self-proclaimed sports journalist, you continue to be extremely misinformed...

 

Coby Fleener only benched at the NFL Combine because of a high-ankle sprain, he managed to bench 27 times which was impressive, but hardly enough to back up your claim that it made his draft stock sky rocket. He didn't run the 40 or any of the other physical drills/workouts. Explain to me how this increased his stock so substantially? He did have a great Pro Day, which I meant to write above but wrote Combine by mistake... but he was the top draft prospect in the majority of mocks before his Pro Day and before the Combine.

 

Just a few examples of pre-combine mocks from last year, all with Fleener going in the first round. There are many others as well.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/2012-nfl-draft/2012/2/24/2814544/2012-nfl-mock-draft-combine-robert-griffin-iii

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/02/14/nfl-mock-draft-5-0-pre-combine-version-featuring-falling-alshon-jeffery/

http://draftdebacled.com/publisheddraft.aspx?mdid=28145

[Andy]

Andy, for a self-proclaimed sports journalist, you continue to be extremely misinformed...

 

Coby Fleener only benched at the NFL Combine because of a high-ankle sprain, he managed to bench 27 times which was impressive, but hardly enough to back up your claim that it made his draft stock sky rocket. He didn't run the 40 or any of the other physical drills/workouts. Explain to me how this increased his stock so substantially? He did have a great Pro Day, which I meant to write above but wrote Combine by mistake... but he was the top draft prospect in the majority of mocks before his Pro Day and before the Combine.

 

Just a few examples of pre-combine mocks from last year, all with Fleener going in the first round. There are many others as well.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/2012-nfl-draft/2012/2/24/2814544/2012-nfl-mock-draft-combine-robert-griffin-iii

http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/02/14/nfl-mock-draft-5-0-pre-combine-version-featuring-falling-alshon-jeffery/

http://draftdebacled.com/publisheddraft.aspx?mdid=28145

 

 

Continue to be extremely misinformed? Why, because I made a mistake on the WCO, and I'd like to correct something here. BTW, it's not seth proclaimed. I work for 2 newspaper (1 with 600,000 daily readers), a website that is on Yardbarker, and guest write on 5 other websites and online newspapers. 

 

I made a mistake in the sense that I wanted to say that Fleener's crazy pro day helped him. I forgot he didn't run at the combine. I was just thinking of his 4.5 and all his crazy numbers, and thought he did it at the combine. I forgot and he did it at the combine. You made the same mistake before. 

 

Going into the draft, McShay and all the other experts had Allen as the top tight end, that I am 100% sure about. His bad combine and Fleener's great pro day are the reason why one rose and one fell. Allen was the better overall tight end. 

[AntonMcG]

Continue to be extremely misinformed? Why, because I made a mistake on the WCO, and I'd like to correct something here. BTW, it's not seth proclaimed. I work for 2 newspaper (1 with 600,000 daily readers), a website that is on Yardbarker, and guest write on 5 other websites and online newspapers. 

 

I made a mistake in the sense that I wanted to say that Fleener's crazy pro day helped him. I forgot he didn't run at the combine. I was just thinking of his 4.5 and all his crazy numbers, and thought he did it at the combine. I forgot and he did it at the combine. You made the same mistake before. 

 

Going into the draft, McShay and all the other experts had Allen as the top tight end, that I am 100% sure about. His bad combine and Fleener's great pro day are the reason why one rose and one fell. Allen was the better overall tight end. 

 

That's just no true... my memory isn't short enough to somehow forget the build up to last years draft. Allen was considered a more complete Tight End... but Fleener was definitely more widely renowned as the top TE to be taken long before the combine or his Pro Day. Of course it was dependent on fit, some teams want a well-rounded TE and some a purely receiving TE. I would safely say I read every mock draft online last year or pretty close to it (and I know which ones to take with a pinch of salt), and Fleener was most certainly considered the no.1 TE to be taken. I will agree that Allen had a very disappointing combine which is the reason he was available in the third round, if he had a good combine he would have been taken in the second, but still behind Fleener.

 

It does matter that Fleener's great measurables were on show at his Pro Day rather than the Combine. If he had posted those sort of numbers at the Combine, with the wealth of media spotlight and every GM in the league in attendance, his draft stock in the mainstream media would have risen significantly, but Pro Days don't attract that kind of media attention and so whilst it didn't hurt him, it didn't help him to the extent that you have claimed.

 

In fact, I noticed a bit of a drop in most mocks for Fleener as we got closer to the draft, most had him a late first-round pick early on, and before the draft most decent mocks were spot on with the Colt's taking him at #34. 

[Andy]

That's just no true... my memory isn't short enough to somehow forget the build up to last years draft. Allen was considered a more complete Tight End... but Fleener was definitely more widely renowned as the top TE to be taken long before the combine or his Pro Day. Of course it was dependent on fit, some teams want a well-rounded TE and some a purely receiving TE. I would safely say I read every mock draft online last year or pretty close to it (and I know which ones to take with a pinch of salt), and Fleener was most certainly considered the no.1 TE to be taken. I will agree that Allen had a very disappointing combine which is the reason he was available in the third round, if he had a good combine he would have been taken in the second, but still behind Fleener.

 

It does matter that Fleener's great measurables were on show at his Pro Day rather than the Combine. If he had posted those sort of numbers at the Combine, with the wealth of media spotlight and every GM in the league in attendance, his draft stock in the mainstream media would have risen significantly, but Pro Days don't attract that kind of media attention and so whilst it didn't hurt him, it didn't help him to the extent that you have claimed.

 

In fact, I noticed a bit of a drop in most mocks for Fleener as we got closer to the draft, most had him a late first-round pick early on, and before the draft most decent mocks were spot on with the Colt's taking him at #34. 

 

 

I know as a fact that Allen was the top tight end for the majority of the season, and pretty much leading into the combine. THAT I REMEMBER! He started dropping after the combine. Neither were first round picks before the combine. Or at least a few weeks before the combine (not a few days like some of the mocks you showed me). Most of the mocks done in January have Allen before Fleener. During the season, Allen was considered a late first round pick. 

 

I agree on your 2nd part.

 

Fleener slightly dropped on some mocks (by maybe 6 spots) in the 2 weeks leading up to the draft. I saw him mocked at the Texans for a lot of them, and then with a few days left before the draft, I saw some mocked for the Colts (including mine, but that doesn't matter ).

[Jason_]

I know as a fact that Allen was the top tight end for the majority of the season, and pretty much leading into the combine. THAT I REMEMBER! He started dropping after the combine. Neither were first round picks before the combine. Or at least a few weeks before the combine (not a few days like some of the mocks you showed me). Most of the mocks done in January have Allen before Fleener. During the season, Allen was considered a late first round pick. 

 

I agree on your 2nd part.

 

Fleener slightly dropped on some mocks (by maybe 6 spots) in the 2 weeks leading up to the draft. I saw him mocked at the Texans for a lot of them, and then with a few days left before the draft, I saw some mocked for the Colts (including mine, but that doesn't matter ).

 

Most of the mocks I read last year during the last half of the season had Fleener going to either NYG or SF (because of the Harbaugh connection and his preference to use multiple TE's) in the late 1st.  All of the mocks and grades I read on Fleener during the latter half of the year had him as a late first to possibly early 2nd round pick and he was more often than not mocked above Allen due to his athleticism.

[BIGugly]

Allen over Fleener, this one's easy.

[AntonMcG]

I know as a fact that Allen was the top tight end for the majority of the season, and pretty much leading into the combine. THAT I REMEMBER! He started dropping after the combine. Neither were first round picks before the combine. Or at least a few weeks before the combine (not a few days like some of the mocks you showed me). Most of the mocks done in January have Allen before Fleener. During the season, Allen was considered a late first round pick. 

 

I agree on your 2nd part.

 

Fleener slightly dropped on some mocks (by maybe 6 spots) in the 2 weeks leading up to the draft. I saw him mocked at the Texans for a lot of them, and then with a few days left before the draft, I saw some mocked for the Colts (including mine, but that doesn't matter ).

 

We must have been looking at very different mocks because I only ever saw and handful that had Allen going before Fleener. Regardless, most of the mainstream media had Fleener projected at the end of the first before his Pro Day, and that didn't change much after it (and as stated he actually seemed to drop a few weeks after). So he didn't have the meteoric rise based on combine/pro day numbers that you claimed originally.

 

Here's a few articles that talk about Fleener going in the first before his Pro Day...

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/coby-fleener-creates-buzz-at-stanford-pro-day/

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/giants/post/_/id/13403/coby-fleener-impresses-at-pro-day