Peyton Opted For A More Invasive And Very Painful Surgery ((Merged))

[crazyrob]

Hoping for a speedier return. I'm think IR would be better - they took a section from his hip to put in his neck.

Team has to do something to make it worth it for him. yikes.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Indianapolis-Colts-Peyton-Manning-surgery-more-painful-speedier-recovery-091111

I don't expect him to be back, but my thought is he's not on IR so he can get reps in with the first team offense in December if he is well enough. It's basically the same thing they did with the PUP. They took him off so he could get some practice in and test things out. Hopefully the test goes a little better though.

[mouthofsouth]

I don't expect him to be back, but my thought is he's not on IR so he can get reps in with the first team offense in December if he is well enough. It's basically the same thing they did with the PUP. They took him off so he could get some practice in and test things out. Hopefully the test goes a little better though.

Peyton is very brave. I have read a lot of second guessing on the Internet about what he should or should not have done. The bottom line he asked the doctors, "What is my best chance for a quick recovery?" And they told him the hip bone option.

The trouble is there seems little sense in his coming back quicker. Looks like by 8 weeks the Colts will have blown any chance to make the playoffs. And even if Peyton had started today, would have have had a chance? The defense looks pretty weak.

[oldunclemark]

I dont think Manning ha seven consisderd not coming back this year...

..and if he watched today's game..he might be throwing in practice on Monday

I didnt realize that Manning and Saturady had their own special code words so Manning didnt even call entire plays..

Collins has to learn to 'O' and the team has to adjust to a slower offensive pace..

I think he'll be back against New England in December and if we can still be 6-5 going into that game if we only beat KC, Cleveland, Jacksonville,

Tennesse, Cincinnatti and Carolina.

[chrisfarley]

Looks like Chris Farley was correct - Peyton purposely took a more invasive, more painful route in hopes he'd get on the field this year.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Indianapolis-Colts-Peyton-Manning-surgery-more-painful-speedier-recovery-091111

Thank you, perhaps some apologies are in order but I doubt I get any and that's ok. People can be pretty rude telling me my post was out of line and was misinformed. I for one will apologize for being rude on any reply posts I made if I offended anyone.

[nsurg]

Hoping for a speedier return. I'm think IR would be better - they took a section from his hip to put in his neck.

Team has to do something to make it worth it for him. yikes.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Indianapolis-Colts-Peyton-Manning-surgery-more-painful-speedier-recovery-091111

I'm not out to lambast any posters here, but here is some medical reflection on this linked article. Sorry if this is getting old, but I'm really weary of the press misdirection on this.

There's so much medically incorrect with this article that it puts the whole thing in doubt, in my opinion... First of all, there is no chance he had a C2-3 surgery, a level operated much less than 1% of the time for cervical surgery; besides, a pinched nerve here would cause no problems at all with arm strength. Secondly, the bone is taken from the iliac crest of the pelvis, not the hip; occasionally painful, it would do nothing to slow function of an athlete. More importantly, given the errors of the article I'm not sure they took autologous bone from the pelvis at all--nobody does this anymore unless they are operating like it was 30 years ago. The only rationale for doing this is that it would potentially fuse faster, which might (but I doubt) allow a return to attempted play this season, so there is a small reason to go old-school for a football player. Manning is a huge person, so conventional donor bone is a bit small for someone his size. I'd believe it more if the rest of the article was factual. More errors: "rare surgery"--an anterior discectomy and fusion is perhaps the most common cervical surgery done in this country. They then refer to "cadaver disc" which is probably a typo (bone, not disc). It concludes with "radical surgery" which is just embellishing (typically an overnight stay, and not for pain control, is required, and most patients not on preop narcotics are off of prescription pain meds by 3-14 days).

And as previously discussed, he does not need a collar nor does he have restrictions against basic civilian activities (we operated on a surgeon a while back who went back to doing his cases the next week).

Sigh. We should just quit reading about this in the press for details, or at the very least quit making new posts about the surgery, with the one exception: If anyone finds news of arm or triceps strength improving, and grading that improvement it would be useful news. Now we just wait.

Does it seem like he should be given an MVP now for last year, since it's proof of how organized he makes this team?

[nsurg]

The linked article just above is of very poor quality, and it is the first we have seen that references autologous bone graft from the "hip" (actually pelvis). All prior assertations of this were speculation without fact. Bone from the pelvis only has utility for a larger fusion surface area and perhaps quicker fusion (but I think leaves a return this season a bit unsafe/unlikely, though not impossible). Autologous bone has been abandoned years ago by all but the most archaic surgeons for a single level cervical fusion, but unusual things can be done in unusual circumstances like this. Please see my post #8

Two fundamental points here:

--The media is more worried about sensationalism and less about details

--Neurosurgery is difficult to understand, and the internet may be misleading as a resource

Lets focus on facts, and keep it in the main thread on surgery please. No more opinions and pleas for justification? We need to plea for some wins.

[manningstheman]

I dont think Manning ha seven consisderd not coming back this year...

..and if he watched today's game..he might be throwing in practice on Monday

I didnt realize that Manning and Saturady had their own special code words so Manning didnt even call entire plays..

Collins has to learn to 'O' and the team has to adjust to a slower offensive pace..

I think he'll be back against New England in December and if we can still be 6-5 going into that game if we only beat KC, Cleveland, Jacksonville,

Tennesse, Cincinnatti and Carolina.

stop it. just stop it. we are not going to go 6-5, we are not going to win more then a game or two by then. this team has lost its heart. they looked like bums today and it was everyones fault. sure they looked better in the second half. look, the texans know peyton is going to be back next year. they werent going to sit there up by 34 at half time and keep poring it on us. the texans took it easy on us the second half. peyton needs to stay out the rest of the season. get healthy and be ready to dominate again next year. now i just hope no one else gets too hurt this season.

[Colts20593]

It's still the NFL and they are still pro's, we got our rear ends handed to us today but who knows what next week holds.

[GoColts8818]

He's likely to end up on IR anyway - why put himself through more pain?

because he's trying to avoid IR so he can come back and help his team.

[Betty27_1]

Looks like he chose the option that was best for him.

If he comes back this season great, if not, then it won't be the end of the world. Just long as he recovers the way he wants to. I'd rather the team lose Peyton for one season, then have him be forced to retire before he wants to and he's ready to. I want him to retire on his own, not because some injury or health issue forced him to retire early.

[#1 Colts Fan]

Ya i would guess that it was the best overall option for him with the rest of his life in mind.

[bayone]

I'm not out to lambast any posters here, but here is some medical reflection on this linked article. Sorry if this is getting old, but I'm really weary of the press misdirection on this.

There's so much medically incorrect with this article that it puts the whole thing in doubt, in my opinion... First of all, there is no chance he had a C2-3 surgery, a level operated much less than 1% of the time for cervical surgery; besides, a pinched nerve here would cause no problems at all with arm strength. Secondly, the bone is taken from the iliac crest of the pelvis, not the hip; occasionally painful, it would do nothing to slow function of an athlete. More importantly, given the errors of the article I'm not sure they took autologous bone from the pelvis at all--nobody does this anymore unless they are operating like it was 30 years ago. The only rationale for doing this is that it would potentially fuse faster, which might (but I doubt) allow a return to attempted play this season, so there is a small reason to go old-school for a football player. Manning is a huge person, so conventional donor bone is a bit small for someone his size. I'd believe it more if the rest of the article was factual. More errors: "rare surgery"--an anterior discectomy and fusion is perhaps the most common cervical surgery done in this country. They then refer to "cadaver disc" which is probably a typo (bone, not disc). It concludes with "radical surgery" which is just embellishing (typically an overnight stay, and not for pain control, is required, and most patients not on preop narcotics are off of prescription pain meds by 3-14 days).

And as previously discussed, he does not need a collar nor does he have restrictions against basic civilian activities (we operated on a surgeon a while back who went back to doing his cases the next week).

Sigh. We should just quit reading about this in the press for details, or at the very least quit making new posts about the surgery, with the one exception: If anyone finds news of arm or triceps strength improving, and grading that improvement it would be useful news. Now we just wait.

Does it seem like he should be given an MVP now for last year, since it's proof of how organized he makes this team?

Re the bone is taken from the iliac crest of the pelvis, not the hip;

( Agree WHEN I DID surgery in the 1980's on ankle and foot thats what i used at times but much more often I used the dead bone graft as a scaffold for bone to grow across )

Many other good points raised

I still say IR him and let him recover

[hoosiercoltsfan82]

There's been some posts I've been reading in this board, and on others about the Manning and the Colts organization for being stupid for signing Manning to such a big contract with this health issue. Some have said that Manning was taking advantage of the Colts by signing a contract even when he knew his health was in question. However, there is some important information that some may not know. I read an article yesterday in ESPN, I believe, that stated that Manning asked his agent Tom Condon to put a clause into his contract that would give the Colts the option to opt out of his contract after this year if he does not recover as planned. So you see, Manning has done the right thing. He's protected the team.

When I find the article again i'll let ya'll know.

[Superman]

There's been some posts I've been reading in this board, and on others about the Manning and the Colts organization for being stupid for signing Manning to such a big contract with this health issue. Some have said that Manning was taking advantage of the Colts by signing a contract even when he knew his health was in question. However, there is some important information that some may not know. I read an article yesterday in ESPN, I believe, that stated that Manning asked his agent Tom Condon to put a clause into his contract that would give the Colts the option to opt out of his contract after this year if he does not recover as planned. So you see, Manning has done the right thing. He's protected the team.

When I find the article again i'll let ya'll know.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6957652/peyton-manning-indianapolis-colts-collects-3-million-roster-bonus

[Peytongirl]

I have had to spinal (though lumbar and not cervical) fusions and one with the hip graft in the last three years.

The hip graft part was as painful (**VERY**) as the fusion part of my first surgery (much more invasive than the second for me), but only for about 3 weeks. I have had no ill after effects from the hip part and they had to take quite a bit of bone. That type of graft DOES heal and fuse a lot quicker than synthetic or cadaver bone because it is your own tissue, or so my neurosurgeon explained to me.

I can fully understand why Peyton chose this option, especially if he wants to be back on the field before the end of the season or by post season if that is a possibility.