What do we do with Angerer?

[HOFClipboardHolder]

Dude. I am real.

If teams were to pick apart our roster Angerer would be fairly far down the list of best def. players....Freeney Mathis Bethea Davis Powers Redding would all be chosen before Angerer.

Angerer finished tied for 24th in Tackles last year. Played and Started in all 16 games.

I think you mean 4th

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=TACKLES&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go

[GoColts8818]

Dude be real Angerer is the third best defender on the team behind Freeney and Mathis and he had more then one good game heck he lead the NFL for most of last year in tackles and I think he ended the season 4th or 5th in tackles and thats being out for a game. To me Freeman looks better then Conner, Conner's down side to me is he takes bad angles at time, but hands down there isn't a ILB on this team better than Pat Angerer....

He is at best fourth behind the always forgotten Bethea who I would say is right there with Freeney and Mathis for being the best.

[BleedBlu8792]

I think you mean 4th

http://www.nfl.com/s...=true&Submit=Go

He was referring to total tackles HE made not including assisted tackles.

[IndyTrav]

I think you mean 4th

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=TACKLES&season=2011&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go

No. He was 24th.

Your looking at combined Tackles and Assists.

Tackles are a rough stat to actually measure and arguably the most inconsistent measurement in all of the NFL stats. But Assists are so far beyond that, I refuse to take them into account.

[GoColts8818]

No. He was 24th.

Your looking at combined Tackles and Assists.

Tackles are a rough stat to actually measure and arguably the most inconsistent measurement in all of the NFL stats. But Assists are so far beyond that, I refuse to take them into account.

More likely because it doesn't support your argument. Even if we just look at tackles he was 24th in the nfl that's not something you sit on the bench when your defense still struggles with tackling at times. Most likely They will start angerer and conner and mix in the other two guys. If Conner or angerer struggle as starters they can go back to freeman. It's a great problem to have. Also the statement he only had one good year is not exactly true. Fans have been thrilled about angerer since his first pre-season game and the colts liked him so much when he filled in for a hurt brackett his rookie year they played him out of poistion the rest of the year because they wanted his production on the field. He has a nose for the ball and you want that on the field. This isn't to say freeman hasnt done a great job. He has. With that it's going to take more than two good games as a rookie when teams don't have tape on you to replace angerer. We all saw what happened to painter last year when teams got tape on him and figured out how to attack him. I am not saying freeman will fall off like that but we need a larger sample size before we declare freeman a star and bench our beat Inebacker a year ago for him.

[IndyTrav]

More likely because it doesn't support your argument.

That's got nothing to do with it. Look it up. Tackles aren't even an official stat. They are collected by the home teams own official scorer. There are 32 different criteria for Tackles/Assists.

There were 5 Colts players in the top 50 in the NFL in Assists. That's a bit absurd and most likely highly inaccurate.

Check out Advanced NFL stats "Tackle Factor" which takes into account position, defensive plays, 1st downs etc, and the players share of the teams tackles...Where Angerer ranked 33rd, among Linebackers.....Conner was 34th....

[inviolable]

I know all are talking about when Pat comes back this season but if Freeney walks after the season couldn't we just use pat, freeman, mathis, and conner on the field at the same time?

[HOFClipboardHolder]

That's got nothing to do with it. Look it up. Tackles aren't even an official stat. They are collected by the home teams own official scorer. There are 32 different criteria for Tackles/Assists.

There were 5 Colts players in the top 50 in the NFL in Assists. That's a bit absurd and most likely highly inaccurate.

Check out Advanced NFL stats "Tackle Factor" which takes into account position, defensive plays, 1st downs etc, and the players share of the teams tackles...Where Angerer ranked 33rd, among Linebackers.....Conner was 34th....

ROFL You just disproved your own self. Certain teams like the Rams prefer using solo tackles, so you're going to see guys like Laurinaitis rack up solo tackles. On the other side of the spectrum you have teams that rarely give out solo tackles like our Colts. So the best way to determine the amount of tackles is the combined amount. Which is why nfl.com's leader board tracks the combined amount, when "experts" discuss tackles on tv theyre talking about the combined amount and when fantasy teams give out points in idp leagues its for the combined amount.

[throwing BBZ]

I don't think he's playing pro-bowl level, but pretty darn good.

Wayne and Avery are playing like Pro-Bowlers too! yuk yuk

Freeman was not in the right place in game one frequently. Game 2 was good. Connor has been OK. Fokou makes plays.

Of course they will work Angerer in for a few games and see how it goes. No big thing as we will need all of them.

[throwing BBZ]

I think you mean 4th

http://www.nfl.com/s...=true&Submit=Go

Freeney is average at Best unless the other team must Pass. Actually he is a huge detriment against the run.

[IndyTrav]

ROFL You just disproved your own self. Certain teams like the Rams prefer using solo tackles, so you're going to see guys like Laurinaitis rack up solo tackles. On the other side of the spectrum you have teams that rarely give out solo tackles like our Colts. So the best way to determine the amount of tackles is the combined amount. Which is why nfl.com's leader board tracks the combined amount, when "experts" discuss tackles on tv theyre talking about the combined amount and when fantasy teams give out points in idp leagues its for the combined amount.

What are you even talking about?! I don't care that experts or NFL.com combine them....Solo tackles are easier to decipher than "assists",giving them more validity even though solo tackles are highly inaccurate as well. Assists are an absurdly inaccurate measurement, therefore I take zero stock in them, hence why I do not combine them with tackles.

[buccolts]

What are you even talking about?! I don't care that experts or NFL.com combine them....Solo tackles are easier to decipher than "assists",giving them more validity even though solo tackles are highly inaccurate as well. Assists are an absurdly inaccurate measurement, therefore I take zero stock in them, hence why I do not combine them with tackles.

O.K., I gotta ask a stupid question.

If there's an 'assisted' tackle, is there no solo tackle?

I mean, does no one get credit if you're only counting solo tackles....as if it didn't happen?

Or, is that up to the team?

[IndyTrav]

O.K., I gotta ask a stupid question.

If there's an 'assisted' tackle, is there no solo tackle?

I mean, does no one get credit if you're only counting solo tackles....as if it didn't happen?

Or, is that up to the team?

Up to the team.

[Gavin]

Combined tackles are tackles a player has altogether

Total tackles are tackles a player gets by himself

assisted tackles are tackles that player gets from for example gang tackling or getting there late and helping tackle

[Superman]

Up to the team.

Yup. The Colts are crediting Freeman with 22 solos and 22 assists, 44 tackles through 2 games. No way. That's a pace for 352 tackles in one season. Stop it. The correct number is probably less than half of that.

But no doubt about it: Freeman has been our best inside linebacker, period, end of story. He's also been on the field for a ton of plays. Pagano mentioned something about him slowing down toward the end of the game, so I figure we'll find a way to reduce Freeman's snaps by maybe 10 or so, cut back on Conner by 20 or so, and ease Pat back in. Then you figure out who your best two are, and they get starters snaps moving forward.

Fokou also played well against the Vikings. I was very concerned about the ILB position going into camp. Freeman has made this position one of strength, and that's not dependent on Angerer coming back and playing well.

Where I would expect Angerer to be better than Freeman would be in pass coverage. The touchdown to Kyle Rudolph is a good example. Freeman just hasn't seen enough snaps yet. Angerer's experience in pass coverage might make him a better fit in situations like that.

[GoColts8818]

That's got nothing to do with it. Look it up. Tackles aren't even an official stat. They are collected by the home teams own official scorer. There are 32 different criteria for Tackles/Assists.

There were 5 Colts players in the top 50 in the NFL in Assists. That's a bit absurd and most likely highly inaccurate.

Check out Advanced NFL stats "Tackle Factor" which takes into account position, defensive plays, 1st downs etc, and the players share of the teams tackles...Where Angerer ranked 33rd, among Linebackers.....Conner was 34th....

First of all nice way to just single out a single line of my post and completely ignore the rest of what I said in my post that addressed Angerer and talking about him using the 24th in tackles. I'd be willing to bet if the numbers were reversed and if Angerer ranked 4th in solo tackles and 24th in tackles/assists you'd be wanting to talk about him being 24th in tackles/assists. The reason why Angerer has so many assists thought is because he's always around the ball. That's a GOOD thing not some kind of weakness like you are trying to make it seem like. Angerer has proven himself to be a very good player in the limited time he's been here. If you don't agree with that so be it. I don't think many are going to agree with your view point given the high praise that has been given Angerer in the two years he's been here.

Freeman has played very well. Like I said I am sure the Colts are going to find away to use him. My guess is that Angerer will come back he will get his starting job back and if he struggles they will know they can go back to Freeman. Even if he doesn't I would bet we will still see a lot of Freeman on the field along with Conner. Frankly between our four MLB we have a VERY good problem. We have four very good players there.

[IndyTrav]

First of all nice way to just single out a single line of my post and completely ignore the rest of what I said in my post that addressed Angerer and talking about him using the 24th in tackles. I'd be willing to bet if the numbers were reversed and if Angerer ranked 4th in solo tackles and 24th in tackles/assists you'd be wanting to talk about him being 24th in tackles/assists. The reason why Angerer has so many assists thought is because he's always around the ball. That's a GOOD thing not some kind of weakness like you are trying to make it seem like. Angerer has proven himself to be a very good player in the limited time he's been here. If you don't agree with that so be it. I don't think many are going to agree with your view point given the high praise that has been given Angerer in the two years he's been here.

Freeman has played very well. Like I said I am sure the Colts are going to find away to use him. My guess is that Angerer will come back he will get his starting job back and if he struggles they will know they can go back to Freeman. Even if he doesn't I would bet we will still see a lot of Freeman on the field along with Conner. Frankly between our four MLB we have a VERY good problem. We have four very good players there.

Your taking a simple informative post and some how turning it into how I don't like Angerer which is not the case. I'm not saying Pat isn't a good MLB. The Colts are incredibly lucky to be in this situation. My only point is we can't just assume his starting position is his once he comes back.

You've continually stated that I am somehow trying to short his production based on statistics or how I would hypothetically minipulate the numbers to my benefit. And the funny part being outside of tackles assists whatever you want to count, Freeman has matched or near exceed him,statistically, in every other major category through two games compared to Pats 16.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Lol well in my mind you are completely missing my point. I think we are trying to tell eachother different things..

I edited mine to make a little more clearer.

what both of you are saying i think its all pretty clear.

[Gavin]

Yup. The Colts are crediting Freeman with 22 solos and 22 assists, 44 tackles through 2 games. No way. That's a pace for 352 tackles in one season. Stop it. The correct number is probably less than half of that.

But no doubt about it: Freeman has been our best inside linebacker, period, end of story. He's also been on the field for a ton of plays. Pagano mentioned something about him slowing down toward the end of the game, so I figure we'll find a way to reduce Freeman's snaps by maybe 10 or so, cut back on Conner by 20 or so, and ease Pat back in. Then you figure out who your best two are, and they get starters snaps moving forward.

Fokou also played well against the Vikings. I was very concerned about the ILB position going into camp. Freeman has made this position one of strength, and that's not dependent on Angerer coming back and playing well.

Where I would expect Angerer to be better than Freeman would be in pass coverage. The touchdown to Kyle Rudolph is a good example. Freeman just hasn't seen enough snaps yet. Angerer's experience in pass coverage might make him a better fit in situations like that.

from what the Colts website here says they have credited Freeman with 11 solo, 7 assisted for a total of 18

[Andy]

Didn't write here yet...

All I gotta say is expect a diminished role from Conner.

[Superman]

from what the Colts website here says they have credited Freeman with 11 solo, 7 assisted for a total of 18

I read a Kuharsky piece earlier with the 22/22 number. Maybe I misunderstood. Or maybe he used a bad number. Either way, 18 is more like it.