Devaluation of the Running Back [Merge]

[crazycolt1]

Panthers

49ers

Seahawks

Bengals

Chargers

All ran the ball perfectly fine with regular running plays we're used to seeing.

No excuses for the way our offensive line plays. It has to get better or these dreams you all have of Andrew Luck winning multiple Super Bowls will be just those....... dreams

Did you even notice the top three teams on your list all have running QBs and a lot of the total yardage came from the QB position?

[The Peytonator]

I wouldn't say run blocking is a lost art, so much as it's a lot harder to run the ball than pass it. When your average run play gains 3.5 yards, and your average pass play gains 7, it only makes sense to throw it around more. When running the ball, you need every lineman to beat his man. Your seven guys need to beat their front seven. If one of their guys beats one of yours, the whole play is busted. Passing is a lot different. Half your pass plays are three step drops that get rid of the ball in less than two seconds. That is not enough time for the better pass rushers to even sniff the QB. When half your pass plays are designed to render their entire front seven ineffective, it is going to be a lot easier to pass, and the running game will always take a backseat. 

 

The RB position is changing, but I think they just need to evolve with the game. More value will be placed on pass blocking RBs with the ability to read defenses, get out in space, and catch the ball.

[The Peytonator]

Panthers

49ers

Seahawks

Bengals

Chargers

All ran the ball perfectly fine with regular running plays we're used to seeing.

No excuses for the way our offensive line plays. It has to get better or these dreams you all have of Andrew Luck winning multiple Super Bowls will be just those....... dreams

 

 

DeAngelo Williams - 4.2 YPC

Frank Gore - 4.1 YPC

Marshawn Lynch - 4.2 YPC

Benjarvis Green-Ellis - 3.4 YPC

Ryan Matthews - 4.4 YPC

 

Donald Brown - 5.3 YPC

[ColtsHappy]

The Seahawks spend a large block of time every wednesday ONLY working on fundamental blocking and tackling.

 

Not sure if we do this or not, but after last year, it certainly should be a point of emphasis.

 

I think when the whole team focuses on it regularly it has to help.

 

Can't believe how sloppy our blocking and tackling was overall last year.

 

It has to improve if we expect to go anywhere.

 

ColtsHappy

[BrentMc11]

Dustin has a nice thread going on 'downhill running...slow death.  I like the angle from OL though!  If I am coaching high School or college I am teaching my OL to run block first and pass protect as well no matter what my offense is.

 

I want my guys to be the best they can possibly be at their position.  There is plenty of time to practice ALL of the fundamentals to be the best that you can be!  

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/27984-running-downhill-the-slow-but-sure-death-of-the-nfl-runningback/

[DougDew]

No fullback.  That's what a team needs if they want a real running game.  Its not so much the OL blocking as much as the lack of a lead blocker at the point of attack who has built up a head of steam.

 

The single back offense is a passing offense, and successful running is more reflective of a productive passing game than a real running game.  The running plays are sort of counter-pass plays, rather than reflective of a run-first offense. There have been successful single back running teams, but those are anomally's.

[YOUR GM]

Defenses are more athletic than they were years ago. You can't rely on your linemen winning one-on-ones consistently when they're going against D-linemen who can outrun them and, many times, are much stronger. You have to have elite talent at multiple positions or you need to employ a zone scheme (where the sum is greater than the individual parts) where communication and teamwork is key. That's why you see teams spreading defenses out. When you have a lead blocker in, you just draw the defense in more, where (unless you're intentionally doing so to capitalize on play action) that is their natural advantage.

I think an exclusive man-on-man run scheme is outdated and a pipe dream at this point, unless you literally have top 5 talent at multiple positions on the O-line. It's just not realistic to expect the average linemen to consistently win one-on-ones with guys twice as athletic as them, without any help. The zone scheme paired with spreading the defense was the counter to the natural advantage the defense has due to the evolution of athletes in the league.

[ProblChld32]

I agree that the position has been Devalued, as you can just throw a no name guy in there and he should be able to produce as long as running lanes are created. 

[dgambill]

That has been the Pats approach for awhile now. They several backs that all can do different things. Last year Ridley was the slasher back, Blount brought the brawn and the Vareen was the scat back who caught balls out of the backfield. It was easily their most productive unit on the team.

 

I agree about paying just one guy as if he goes down then you are in trouble. And of course the risk of injury is big too with one guy carrying the ball every play.

I love how NE used their backs...I also believe that threat really makes Brady oh so much more dangerous. I will say though he needs to stretch the defense this year. He and Manning both need to do so or the defenses will really start to sit on the short throws that keep those offenses moving.

 

I think we will see another dominant back in the near future. Someone like Peterson that maybe won't have the long career that Smith had but will be a flash of excellence and every down back for 5 or 6 years. Backs like Peterson, Lynch, Mccoy, Charles all show that you can have one premier back and still have dynamic plays from them.

 

To me the real issue is that offensive lineman haven't been taught how to run block properly...the days of the HOGS in Washington and that OL in Dallas are long gone. They know how to pass block and aren't taught all the fundamentals of run blocking and dominating their man.

[crazycolt1]

I love how NE used their backs...I also believe that threat really makes Brady oh so much more dangerous. I will say though he needs to stretch the defense this year. He and Manning both need to do so or the defenses will really start to sit on the short throws that keep those offenses moving.

 

I think we will see another dominant back in the near future. Someone like Peterson that maybe won't have the long career that Smith had but will be a flash of excellence and every down back for 5 or 6 years. Backs like Peterson, Lynch, Mccoy, Charles all show that you can have one premier back and still have dynamic plays from them.

 

To me the real issue is that offensive lineman haven't been taught how to run block properly...the days of the HOGS in Washington and that OL in Dallas are long gone. They know how to pass block and aren't taught all the fundamentals of run blocking and dominating their man.

You speak of the old days of the Hogs and the Cowboys having great linemen. Does that coincide with the way the cap space was run in those days? (like none) Offensive linemen are hard to find and when they are found teams can't afford to keep them all together year after year. We just witness how expensive it cost the Browns to keep their center. We also witness many offensive linemen who go to the highest bidder after their teams win big.

[dgambill]

You speak of the old days of the Hogs and the Cowboys having great linemen. Does that coincide with the way the cap space was run in those days? (like none) Offensive linemen are hard to find and when they are found teams can't afford to keep them all together year after year. We just witness how expensive it cost the Browns to keep their center. We also witness many offensive linemen who go to the highest bidder after their teams win big.

I agree it was easier to retain talent back then if your owner was willing to pay but lets be honest...those teams placed the emphasis on those men. You don't necessarily have to have pro bowlers at every position but you likely need 1 or 2...like remember the old Seahwawks left side of their line when Alexander was there...you can still build a dominant offensive line...its just these lines now days are focused on big long armed pass defenders and don't emphasize road grading lineman. I think a great OL is still very possible to build...especially through the draft with a vet or two sprinkled in...add some great coaching and you get teams like NE who have always had great lines.

[ReMeDy]

To know we gave up a first round pick for an RB, oh well, I won't get started

 

RGIII liked your post.

[Dustin]

RGIII liked your post.

His team gave up 4 first rounders for a RB.

[Kyle]

His team gave up 4 first rounders for a RB.

[southwest1]

I wouldn't say run blocking is a lost art, so much as it's a lot harder to run the ball than pass it. When your average run play gains 3.5 yards, and your average pass play gains 7, it only makes sense to throw it around more. When running the ball, you need every lineman to beat his man. Your seven guys need to beat their front seven. If one of their guys beats one of yours, the whole play is busted. Passing is a lot different. Half your pass plays are three step drops that get rid of the ball in less than two seconds. That is not enough time for the better pass rushers to even sniff the QB. When half your pass plays are designed to render their entire front seven ineffective, it is going to be a lot easier to pass, and the running game will always take a backseat. 

 

The RB position is changing, but I think they just need to evolve with the game. More value will be placed on pass blocking RBs with the ability to read defenses, get out in space, and catch the ball.

Nice piece of prose there Peytonator! I agree 100% with every word you wrote. 

[southwest1]

Dustin has a nice thread going on 'downhill running...slow death.  I like the angle from OL though!  If I am coaching high School or college I am teaching my OL to run block first and pass protect as well no matter what my offense is.

 

I want my guys to be the best they can possibly be at their position.  There is plenty of time to practice ALL of the fundamentals to be the best that you can be!  

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/27984-running-downhill-the-slow-but-sure-death-of-the-nfl-runningback/

Does your link work buddy? Because when I clicked on it, I received the following message: "Oops! we could find that." Not your fault Brent.  ;)

[BrentMc11]

Does your link work buddy? Because when I clicked on it, I received the following message: "Oops! we could find that." Not your fault Brent.  ;)

Cause they merged it brother

 

Yet I would not be surprised if one of my links did not work....

[Gavin]

Since this is a discussion on running backs I thought I would post this article on the different type of cuts some running backs make during a game and you are most likely see make those different cuts, Going back and watching film I found this article very enlightening I guess you could say, A very interesting read if you are interested in not just the type of running backs out there but the different type of cuts a running uses or is good at using. I have to say my favorite type of Cut is the Speed Cut....Enjoy and post your thoughts http://footballbeyondthestats.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/breaking-down-the-cutting-actions-of-rbs-part-2/