Aaron Rodgers named #1 on Top 100 Players in 2011

[bap1331]

really? Better than Tom Brady and Eli Manning?

http://www.nfl.com/photos/09000d5d828fc229#id:09000d5d82a2e50e

[bap1331]

really? Better than Tom Brady and Eli Manning?

http://www.nfl.com/p...9000d5d82a2e50e

Calvin Johnson is better then Tom Brady?! What is this world coming to?

[Jules]

Rodgers at #1 after last season was a given.

[Jules]

Oops nevermind, I have not been following this really unless I see it online but it's a projection of this coming season's (2012) top players.

Looks like they think Rodgers/Brees are the best right now.

[John Dee]

Smart, mobile, accurate, GOOD ENOUGH ARM.....................

Hmmmmm sound like someone we know??????

hehe...

[John Dee]

Rodgers at #1 after last season was a given.

He is a stud and he throws darts....

But Jennings, Nelson, Driver, and Jones is the best WR corps in the NFL.

But I will take him first in any FF draft if he is there and I am too.

[Jules]

He is a stud and he throws darts....

But Jennings, Nelson, Driver, and Jones is the best WR corps in the NFL.

But I will take him first in any FF draft if he is there and I am too.

True, that is one fun offense for Mr. Saturday to join up with for his remaining time in the NFL.

I thought the Pack o line was a bit overrated last year though, injuries did not help the situation however. I often worry Rodgers will suffer another concussion but thankfully for him and the Packers he has been clean since 2010.

However, on the defensive side....oh boy. That is where GB has issues to fix if they are going to head back to the Super Bowl again.

[ViriLudant]

Tom Brady carried a team with the 31st ranked defense to the Super Bowl, and would have won it if Welker had caught the ball.

Brady, in my opinion, was the better player. Rodgers was one-and-done in the playoffs.

[Dan]

He is a stud and he throws darts....

But Jennings, Nelson, Driver, and Jones is the best WR corps in the NFL.

But I will take him first in any FF draft if he is there and I am too.

Welker, Hernandez, Gronk and the recently added Lloyd will help out Mr Brady too!

[Yehoodi]

Rodgers at #1 after last season was a given.

I would have put Brees ahead of Rogers . . . I just hope that the players don't simply vote the prior years MVP in as the #1 player defacto . . . that would be a disappointment . . . sometimes it will be a clear and the year prior MVP will be head and shoulders above the #2 . . . but some years there will be a split . . . like last year IMO . . . I would of liked to have seen Bress as #1 . . .

and it was nice to see a WR crack the top 3 . . .

[CR91]

brees should have been mvp and tops on the list. his stats are way better then rodgers.

[That Guy]

Tom Brady carried a team with the 31st ranked defense to the Super Bowl, and would have won it if Welker had caught the ball.

Brady, in my opinion, was the better player. Rodgers was one-and-done in the playoffs.

It's hard to remember that this is actually the top players of 2012. (maybe the title of this thread needs to be changed).

You need to keep that in mind. Maybe the players are expecting a declne in Brady's play, since he is getting up there in age for a QB. Meanwhile, Rodgers seems to be just hitting his prime.

Otherwise, I'd agree that Brady had the better statistical year.

[CR91]

the list itself was horrible this year. guys like jpp being ahead of eli manning. ngata being rated the best raven over t-sizzle. wayne and mathis not being on the list, but john kuhn and cortland finnagan make it. dont even get me started on the disrespect of bethea. two years in a row not being on the list because * just wanna look at stats instead how much of an impact a player makes for his team.

[teganslaw]

I would have put Drew Brees at #1 in 2011. He broke Dan Marino's records of touchdown yards and practically led the whole team to the playoffs. When Brees was having a good game he was unstoppable. Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning were all good, but going on statistics alone it was Brees who led everyone else.

[21isSuperman]

There was never any doubt, in my mind, that Rodgers would be #1. The guy had an unbelievable season. He made it look easy; watching him play on Sundays, he made it look so simple and so easy and made it seem as though I could get up off my couch and do what he did. While I don't think these list are very credible, it is impressive that he is considered by his peers to be the best in the game. Any chance someone other than a QB ever makes #1? Any chance a defensive player ever makes #1?

[gspdx]

Tom Brady carried a team with the 31st ranked defense to the Super Bowl, and would have won it if Welker had caught the ball.

Brady, in my opinion, was the better player. Rodgers was one-and-done in the playoffs.

Wow. throwing Welker under the bus. You wouldn't have made it to the SB without Welker.

Or maybe if the pass had been a little better...

[Jules]

Tom Brady carried a team with the 31st ranked defense to the Super Bowl, and would have won it if Welker had caught the ball.

Brady, in my opinion, was the better player. Rodgers was one-and-done in the playoffs.

lol that was a terrible throw by Brady too. And an even worse pick sometime before that during the game. Maybe the Pats should have ran the ball more? It was not like in 2007 to me when the Giants seemed to shut down everything.

Rodgers did go one and done. But, at the same time do you put it all on him? Outside of Driver I don't think the team as a whole showed up to play. Besides, they lost to the same Giants team the Pats did, just a few games earlier. The NFC was tougher. I do think the Packers could have beaten the Broncos. Heck they tore up that D that regular season anyway and the Broncos were lucky to be there.

Brady was not so hot in the AFCCG either. Your 31st D stepped it up. The Packers D was 32nd and never stepped it up.

You can make a solid argument for Brady/Brees/Rodgers after last year. And heck I like Brees even though he carved us up in the SB. As for MVP, I have put less stock in it as time goes on due to voting at times. I did think it would go to Rodgers last year and should have, but still 48 votes seems pretty high to me. It can be a popularity contest and sometimes I feel it is decided far too eary in the year by some voters.

I'll give you this; of the big 3; Rodgers/Brees/Brady.....Brees had the toughest playoff game actually and on the road. The Niners top D totally shut down the Saints run game and Brees threw it 63 times/had 4 TDs (ad 2 picks) and still nearly pulled off the win if not for their leaky defense.

[Jules]

double post

[Yehoodi]

There was never any doubt, in my mind, that Rodgers would be #1. The guy had an unbelievable season. He made it look easy; watching him play on Sundays, he made it look so simple and so easy and made it seem as though I could get up off my couch and do what he did. While I don't think these list are very credible, it is impressive that he is considered by his peers to be the best in the game. Any chance someone other than a QB ever makes #1? Any chance a defensive player ever makes #1?

Rogers was solid last year, but for me, I will always look to "what would another do with your team," sometimes you can exstrapolate this or have actual replacments. . . the year prior to Rogers taking over the Pack went 13-3 and made it to the NFCCG and OT, and last year the game he sat out, his back up set franchises records for a QB . . .

Sso altho Rogers had a good year, he is on a team that was good when he arrived and some may say that his replacement out preformed him in the game that he played . . . well at least did not put up Curtis Painter numbers . . .

[Yehoodi]

Wow. throwing Welker under the bus. You wouldn't have made it to the SB without Welker.

Or maybe if the pass had been a little better...

Yes the pass could of been better . . . I think TB was trying to throw it away from the safety, but it was too far inside . . . but Welker could of made the catch . . . not a gimmie by any stretch as his body weight was falling away from the pass as he turned around . . . but he probably could of made it 5 out of 10 times . . .

[Andy]

He'll be at that spot for many years to come.

[21isSuperman]

Rogers was solid last year, but for me, I will always look to "what would another do with your team," sometimes you can exstrapolate this or have actual replacments. . . the year prior to Rogers taking over the Pack went 13-3 and made it to the NFCCG and OT, and last year the game he sat out, his back up set franchises records for a QB . . .

Sso altho Rogers had a good year, he is on a team that was good when he arrived and some may say that his replacement out preformed him in the game that he played . . . well at least did not put up Curtis Painter numbers . . .

By the same logic, Brady isn't that great because his backup took the team to 11-5. If anything, Brady is worse because Rodgers' backup had just one good game whereas Brady's backup had an entire good season. Peyton would also be the best ever because with him, the Colts were Super Bowl contenders. Without him, they are the worst team in the league

[Dan]

the list itself was horrible this year. guys like jpp being ahead of eli manning. ngata being rated the best raven over t-sizzle. wayne and mathis not being on the list, but john kuhn and cortland finnagan make it. dont even get me started on the disrespect of bethea. two years in a row not being on the list because * just wanna look at stats instead how much of an impact a player makes for his team.

In fairness I agree with this. It confused me but I spoke to my friend, a Ravens fan, who says without Ngata, Suggs wouldn't have nearly as much impact. Obviously he's really good, but he insists Ngata causes so much trouble that the other players, Suggs included, benefit from it.

[southwest1]

Rogers was solid last year, but for me, I will always look to "what would another do with your team," sometimes you can exstrapolate this or have actual replacments. . . the year prior to Rogers taking over the Pack went 13-3 and made it to the NFCCG and OT, and last year the game he sat out, his back up set franchises records for a QB . . .

Sso altho Rogers had a good year, he is on a team that was good when he arrived and some may say that his replacement out preformed him in the game that he played . . . well at least did not put up Curtis Painter numbers . . .

By the same logic, Brady isn't that great because his backup took the team to 11-5. If anything, Brady is worse because Rodgers' backup had just one good game whereas Brady's backup had an entire good season. Peyton would also be the best ever because with him, the Colts were Super Bowl contenders. Without him, they are the worst team in the league

Look, clearly Brady & Rogers are elite NFL QB's no question. But, Brady has consistently done more with substandard talent for several years & he has no control over how the defense or special team's play either. An unfair comparison in my mind. Rogers inherited a squad loaded with talent on offense & a great DC too. Brady started with a solid defense, lost it, & never had real offensive bonafide weapons beyond Welker until Randy Moss in 2007. Yehoodi is exactly right.

[21isSuperman]

Look, clearly Brady & Rogers are elite NFL QB's no question. But, Brady has consistently done more with substandard talent for several years & he has no control over how the defense or special team's play either. An unfair comparison in my mind. Rogers inherited a squad loaded with talent on offense & a great DC too. Brady started with a solid defense, lost it, & never had real offensive bonafide weapons beyond Welker until Randy Moss in 2007. Yehoodi is exactly right.

There's a lot to be said on both sides of the argument. That's why, to me, lists like this have 0 meaning

[southwest1]

There's a lot to be said on both sides of the argument. That's why, to me, lists like this have 0 meaning

I can certainly respect your POV 21isSuperman. No one ever wins a division title or SB Championship on paper. I agree 100%. Line up, buckle your chinstrap, & let's see who dominates at the line of scrimmage when that clock reads 00:00.

Point taken 21isSuperman. Statistics & trivial lists alone are absolutely meaningless. That's true. No argument there.

[trsean]

Look at how many players the Super Bowl winners had in the top ten! Oh wait....Er, I mean top twenty! Oh wait....

I actually think that's pretty awesome.

[Qwiz]

Look at how many players the Super Bowl winners had in the top ten! Oh wait....Er, I mean top twenty! Oh wait....

I actually think that's pretty awesome.

That is awesome. Manning is their best player, and he's overrated a lot of the time. Jason Pierre-Paul, however, that is a guy to look at in the coming lists of Top 100.

[MTC]

Brees > Rodgers

[Yehoodi]

By the same logic, Brady isn't that great because his backup took the team to 11-5. If anything, Brady is worse because Rodgers' backup had just one good game whereas Brady's backup had an entire good season. Peyton would also be the best ever because with him, the Colts were Super Bowl contenders. Without him, they are the worst team in the league

Supes 21, it is not the same logic . . . what Cassel did was to perform equal to below TB . . . actually below in my book . . . after coming off an 16-0 season with the same team, Cassel went 11-5, Brady whould likely had gone 11-5 to 14-2 area . . . I for one believe the difference between a good back up and a great starter is only a game or two or three, and often that extra win can effect playoff seeding and wins in the playoffs . . . so no real surprise with Cassel . .

On the contrary, Matt Flynn drove Aaron Roger's car and set FRANCHISE RECORDS for BOTH yards and TDs . . . which of coarse exceeded anything Mr. Discount Double Check did in the 15 games prior, and for that matter any QB in the last 90 years of the team . . . surely passing was not king prior to the Merger, but there was a guy name Farve in the driver's seat from 92-07 and Rogers 08-11, so you have a 20 year stretch (320 games wink wink) in which no HOF QB did what Flynn did with Rogers' car. .

. . . to put it another way Flynn exceeded anything Rogers or Farve had done in a single game . . . surely there were great games here and there by both QBs . . .but whne you set records is not just another Sunday at Lambeau . . . it is at a minimun something that should be looked at . . . and more importantly taken into consideration when you analyze a performance by someone and see that another with the same tools exceeded what you were able to do in the 15 prior games . . .

Am I saying Flynn is better than Rogers, no, but that last game is a data point reference to show you the quality of the team if the back up can do something that had not been done by two HOF QBs in the prior 20 years . . . it is a reflection of the quality around him . . .

[21isSuperman]

Supes 21, it is not the same logic . . . what Cassel did was to perform equal to below TB . . . actually below in my book . . . after coming off an 16-0 season with the same team, Cassel went 11-5, Brady whould likely had gone 11-5 to 14-2 area . . . I for one believe the difference between a good back up and a great starter is only a game or two or three, and often that extra win can effect playoff seeding and wins in the playoffs . . . so no real surprise with Cassel . .

On the contrary, Matt Flynn drove Aaron Roger's car and set FRANCHISE RECORDS for BOTH yards and TDs . . . which of coarse exceeded anything Mr. Discount Double Check did in the 15 games prior, and for that matter any QB in the last 90 years of the team . . . surely passing was not king prior to the Merger, but there was a guy name Farve in the driver's seat from 92-07 and Rogers 08-11, so you have a 20 year stretch (320 games wink wink) in which no HOF QB did what Flynn did with Rogers' car. .

. . . to put it another way Flynn exceeded anything Rogers or Farve had done in a single game . . . surely there were great games here and there by both QBs . . .but whne you set records is not just another Sunday at Lambeau . . . it is at a minimun something that should be looked at . . . and more importantly taken into consideration when you analyze a performance by someone and see that another with the same tools exceeded what you were able to do in the 15 prior games . . .

Am I saying Flynn is better than Rogers, no, but that last game is a data point reference to show you the quality of the team if the back up can do something that had not been done by two HOF QBs in the prior 20 years . . . it is a reflection of the quality around him . . .

I apologize for my ignorance/stupidity, but I need something clarified. You're arguing that Rodgers has/had a better supporting cast, correct?

[Jules]

The supporting cast on offense argument is the same argument many Pats fans used against Manning for many years. So was the dome thing, which ironically I have seen Pats and Packers fans online use against Brees.

They are all top QBs. But, it is not unheard of for 2012 projections to take the 28 year old who seems to be in his prime and putting up ridiculous numbers over the mid 30 somethings either. I am not saying Rodgers WILL have the better season next year either over everyone else, who knows what next year has in store. But, ranking him first does not suprise me at all and I expected it.

As for the backup QB thing I always hated that argument at times. I kinda hated it at times even when it was used against Brady. I have had laughs over it but it does not mean Brady is worse since his backup went 11-5 with a VERY good team who nearly went 19-0 the year before.

I think Jay Cutler is a good QB, but not a great one. I don't think more highly of him since Caleb Hanie sucked so bad. Teams that have good backup QBs and good depth on offense should be proud they can survive major injuries. Clearly Indy and Chicago can't and didn't.

I always felt Flynn has the potential to be a good QB in this league. POTENTIAL. I saw what he did vs. NE in 2010 and this year vs. Detroit. BTW Rodgers called the plays for Flynn vs. Detroit, at least for the first half I believe anyway. Also, keep in mind what we have seen with Flynn has also been against two porous pass defenses-30th for NE in 2010 and 22nd for Detroit in 2011.

Credit to Rodgers, he knew his reputation could be hurt slightly by sitting out the final game if Flynn tore it up. But, he said all week he wanted Flynn to have his shot to show the league he could play again and they are good friends. Also, credit to the Packers for not usually running up the score like some other teams. If Green Bay had wanted to they could have done a lot more serious damage offensively in 4th quarters.

And yes I know what Favre did with GB before Rodgers took over and what they had. But, at the same time Favre was pretty darn good himself and is heading to the HOF. This is probably the closest thing we have seen to a Montana-Young like transition in a long time. Packers are lucky, they develop QBs so well and their offenses are often good. Maybe they are all system guys (people love to say the system word too) heck I don't know and often don't care.....but they are still great QBs who win a lot of games.

[southwest1]

The supporting cast on offense argument is the same argument many Pats fans used against Manning for many years. So was the dome thing, which ironically I have seen Pats and Packers fans online use against Brees.

They are all top QBs. But, it is not unheard of for 2012 projections to take the 28 year old who seems to be in his prime and putting up ridiculous numbers over the mid 30 somethings either. I am not saying Rodgers WILL have the better season next year either over everyone else, who knows what next year has in store. But, ranking him first does not suprise me at all and I expected it.

As for the backup QB thing I always hated that argument at times. I kinda hated it at times even when it was used against Brady. I have had laughs over it but it does not mean Brady is worse since his backup went 11-5 with a VERY good team who nearly went 19-0 the year before.

I think Jay Cutler is a good QB, but not a great one. I don't think more highly of him since Caleb Hanie sucked so bad. Teams that have good backup QBs and good depth on offense should be proud they can survive major injuries. Clearly Indy and Chicago can't and didn't.

Jay Cutler to me reminds me of former Tennessee Titans QB Steve Mcnair. Tough as nails field general who routinely takes a beating, is often never talked about, and who can make all the necessary short, intermediate, and long bombs to win any game. He is very good at hot reads, has a quick release, and he always assumes full responsibility for an interception. I respect Cutler and I could care less if he is a media darling or not. He is on the lower bracket of elite QB's: First Level: Brees, Brady, Peyton, Rogers, Eli, and Rivers. Second Level: Matthew Stafford, Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Michael Vick, & Big Ben. Third Level: Joe Flacco, Sam Bradford, Matt Shaub, Carson Palmer, Tony Romo, and Matthew Hasselback. [injuries and/or a lack of Playoffs production put QB's in this 3rd category.]

I always felt Flynn has the potential to be a good QB in this league. POTENTIAL. I saw what he did vs. NE in 2010 and this year vs. Detroit. BTW Rodgers called the plays for Flynn vs. Detroit, at least for the first half I believe anyway. Also, keep in mind what we have seen with Flynn has also been against two porous pass defenses-30th for NE in 2010 and 22nd for Detroit in 2011.

Matt Flynn looks promising I will admit, but the word "potential" is a dangerous word that gets coaching staffs fired. I need to see a string of successful consecutive starts and victories first. Dissecting an opposing team's secondary is paramount to me.

Credit to Rodgers, he knew his reputation could be hurt slightly by sitting out the final game if Flynn tore it up. But, he said all week he wanted Flynn to have his shot to show the league he could play again and they are good friends. Also, credit to the Packers for not usually running up the score like some other teams. If Green Bay had wanted to they could have done a lot more serious damage offensively in 4th quarters.

Call me old school, but DC Dom Capers needs to revamp that defense this year and defense not offense secures victories late in November and December.

And yes I know what Favre did with GB before Rodgers took over and what they had. But, at the same time Favre was pretty darn good himself and is heading to the HOF. This is probably the closest thing we have seen to a Montana-Young like transition in a long time. Packers are lucky, they develop QBs so well and their offenses are often good. Maybe they are all system guys (people love to say the system word too) heck I don't know and often don't care.....but they are still great QBs who win a lot of games.

Yes, your Montana/Young and Favre/Rogers QB smooth transition analogy is spot on Jules. Although, I have never bought into sitting the heir apparent QB for more than 1 year personally. Baptism by fire is the best way to learn IMO. This isn't Driver's ED from the backseat. The best teacher is live, hands on experience. The lead by quiet veteran example crap is nonsense in my book.

Good post as usual Jules.

[Jules]

Agree with most of your points. And yes the Packers defense needs to improve, fast. Actually a lot of D's from last year need to improve.

What is interesting to me is how much Rodgers actually DOES remind me of Steve Young now....from his style to the concussions so far. Honestly I know many love to compare the potential of Andrew Luck to Aaron Rodgers but as time goes on this offseason....Luck is reminding me less of Rodgers, especially as a person. But, there is a lot to be determined with Luck so I won't get into that right now. I will just say, I agree with Warren Moon.

Maybe I am old school too at times, I sometimes hate all the rules favoring offenses and QBs today. Completely average QBs can put up huge numbers and get raved over. Jesus, Imagine the numbers Marino could put up in today's NFL.

Hey, Peyton could have ran it up more when he broke the TD record. The Colts didn't. Rodgers probably could have broken more records last year, the Packers didn't. I respect that at times. The Saints and Patriots over the years have been obvious record chasers at times and have run up the score, thats their choice and they have the right to do it but sometimes it feels forced to me. You watch a lot of GB games last year they take the foot off the gas in the 4th with a big lead. Sadly though sometimes with their crappy D they almost blew a few games with the conservative approach.

[trsean]

Supes 21, it is not the same logic . . . what Cassel did was to perform equal to below TB . . . actually below in my book . . . after coming off an 16-0 season with the same team, Cassel went 11-5, Brady whould likely had gone 11-5 to 14-2 area . . . I for one believe the difference between a good back up and a great starter is only a game or two or three, and often that extra win can effect playoff seeding and wins in the playoffs . . . so no real surprise with Cassel . .

On the contrary, Matt Flynn drove Aaron Roger's car and set FRANCHISE RECORDS for BOTH yards and TDs . . . which of coarse exceeded anything Mr. Discount Double Check did in the 15 games prior, and for that matter any QB in the last 90 years of the team . . . surely passing was not king prior to the Merger, but there was a guy name Farve in the driver's seat from 92-07 and Rogers 08-11, so you have a 20 year stretch (320 games wink wink) in which no HOF QB did what Flynn did with Rogers' car. .

. . . to put it another way Flynn exceeded anything Rogers or Farve had done in a single game . . . surely there were great games here and there by both QBs . . .but whne you set records is not just another Sunday at Lambeau . . . it is at a minimun something that should be looked at . . . and more importantly taken into consideration when you analyze a performance by someone and see that another with the same tools exceeded what you were able to do in the 15 prior games . . .

Am I saying Flynn is better than Rogers, no, but that last game is a data point reference to show you the quality of the team if the back up can do something that had not been done by two HOF QBs in the prior 20 years . . . it is a reflection of the quality around him . . .

Didn't Cassel throw for back to back 400 yard games or something? Something Brady had never done?

Pretty sure I'm right. And since you're only taken individual performances into consideration (Glossing over the 14 games won by Rodgers, if not ridiculously suggesting Flynn could have accomplished the same), I don't see where the teams record in 08 matters - only what Cassel was able to accomplish in that same offense.

[Yehoodi]

I apologize for my ignorance/stupidity, but I need something clarified. You're arguing that Rodgers has/had a better supporting cast, correct?

yes exaclty . . . for me between Rogers and Brees, I think Brees had a better season last year . . . and when I compare the two I will look to Flynn last game as a qualifying point in that Rogers had a nicer/easier car to drive than Brees . . . so yes I do think that Rogers had a better supporting cast than Brees last year . . . That is why I would put Brees #1 and Rogers #2 . . .

[Yehoodi]

Didn't Cassel throw for back to back 400 yard games or something? Something Brady had never done?

Pretty sure I'm right. And since you're only taken individual performances into consideration (Glossing over the 14 games won by Rodgers, if not ridiculously suggesting Flynn could have accomplished the same), I don't see where the teams record in 08 matters - only what Cassel was able to accomplish in that same offense.

I think the point being is not that Flynn is better than Rogers, which I did indicate he was not if I remember, but the quality of the car the QB is driving . . . and when we are comparing between Brees and Roger we do none the less look at records, TDs, INTs, yards, and passer rating, etc . . . and since we can't have the two guys exchange seats . . . we can get some sense of extrapolation, and I am not saying its an exact science or colleration, but we can get some sense as to if one might have an "easier" time getting those stats . . . and when the players are close on the stats but one guy has a back up put up franchise records and a PR of mid 130s, one might be able to say that the person driving that car might have a more easy time getting a TD here or there, or a few yards here or there and over a 15 game season it might add up to say 300-500 yards and/or 4-7 TDs and when you take that away from Rogers you will see that Brees is ahead of him . . .

now i am not saying this is an exact science as it is based on opinions and interpertations . . .

Getting back to Cassell yes he did have back to back 400 yard games, I think only 5 QBs have done that, so it was a great accomplishment, but in the 15 3/4 games, Cassell did not set any franshise records . . . and finished with predestirans numbers . . . so yah he had two good back to back game, but even in those games (outside of the back to back 400 yards) the two individuals games were not franchise records . . .

Yes it is only one data point, but it is notheless a data point which we can consider if we wish, and I do . . .

[Yehoodi]

Agree with most of your points. And yes the Packers defense needs to improve, fast. Actually a lot of D's from last year need to improve.

What is interesting to me is how much Rodgers actually DOES remind me of Steve Young now....from his style to the concussions so far. Honestly I know many love to compare the potential of Andrew Luck to Aaron Rodgers but as time goes on this offseason....Luck is reminding me less of Rodgers, especially as a person. But, there is a lot to be determined with Luck so I won't get into that right now. I will just say, I agree with Warren Moon.

Maybe I am old school too at times, I sometimes hate all the rules favoring offenses and QBs today. Completely average QBs can put up huge numbers and get raved over. Jesus, Imagine the numbers Marino could put up in today's NFL.

Hey, Peyton could have ran it up more when he broke the TD record. The Colts didn't. Rodgers probably could have broken more records last year, the Packers didn't. I respect that at times. The Saints and Patriots over the years have been obvious record chasers at times and have run up the score, thats their choice and they have the right to do it but sometimes it feels forced to me. You watch a lot of GB games last year they take the foot off the gas in the 4th with a big lead. Sadly though sometimes with their crappy D they almost blew a few games with the conservative approach.

Not so sure how Rogers could have broken more records if he wished . . . They played pretty hard all year and even had he played in the last game there is no gaurantee he would throw for 6 or 7 TDs . . .

I think we also need to remember that with PM 2004 and Rogers 2011 season, both teams had a disproportionate amount of passing TDs to rushing TDs, where as Marino's 1984 seasons and Brady's 2007, the teams maining the yearly amount of rushing TDs and only the passing TDs went up . . . now i am not saying that Rogers or Peyton "stole" TDs from the rushing game by saying play calling, but I am more impressed with a 48 or 50 passing TDs if they are couple with 6-8 more rushing TDs, than a 49 or 51 passing TDs with 6-8 fewer rushing TDs . . . say 48-18 passing-rushing Tds is more impressive to me than 50-10 ration . . . the former QB got his team into the endzone more time than the latter QB . . . the fact that one or two QR got into the endzone more (or the team pass more in the red zone) doesn't matter the latter's performance better in my book . . .

As for pats running up the score, that is a lot hogwash, the team was very efficient, . . . furthermore we rarely had more than a 2 TD lead heading into the 4th qtr and as we all know 14 pt lead in the 4th are not safe, so one must keep scoring, if one score to go up by 21 with 8 mins to play they are not running up the score but are just playing to secure a win . . .there where two games that we did have a big lead, one was the Buff game and one was the Washington game . . . in the latter game we were very efficient and TB only two drives in the 2nd half and the second one was a 8 min drive that started in the 3rd qtr . . . hardly a since of a team trying to run it up . . .and in fact he had the same amount of possessions that PM had in the turkey day game in 04

as for the Saints I do think the try to run it up here and there . . . i do know in the 2009 game against us and BB pulled our starters and cried Unlce, Sean Payton left Brees in the game and they ran a 4 min offense to add to the score in the 4th (unlike our 8 min drive mentioneed above), so i do think there were cases where the saints may have run up the score . . .

[21isSuperman]

yes exaclty . . . for me between Rogers and Brees, I think Brees had a better season last year . . . and when I compare the two I will look to Flynn last game as a qualifying point in that Rogers had a nicer/easier car to drive than Brees . . . so yes I do think that Rogers had a better supporting cast than Brees last year . . . That is why I would put Brees #1 and Rogers #2 . . .

Where does Brady rank in there for you? And Brees had a great support cast too, arguably better than Rodgers. Rodgers didn't have much of a running game to help him out. Brees had one of the best O-lines in the league with 2 of the best (arguably the 2 best) guards. He had one of the best multipurpose threats in the game in Darren Sproles, and a great TE (the best TE in the league according to the players' rankings). Jermichael Finley didn't do so great last year and he had many drops.

In their playoff game against the Giants, the Packers' receivers had many drops, and even in the Super Bowl against the Steelers, the receivers had their fair shares of dropped passes. And they weren't poorly thrown balls either, they were passes that hit the receivers in the hands.

[TAPLOOK]

By the same logic, Brady isn't that great because his backup took the team to 11-5. If anything, Brady is worse because Rodgers' backup had just one good game whereas Brady's backup had an entire good season. Peyton would also be the best ever because with him, the Colts were Super Bowl contenders. Without him, they are the worst team in the league

Actually our Colts were no longer SB contenders even with Peyton. Cassell is no Brady and it's foolish to even make the suggestion.