Luck vs RGIII rookie years?

[Malakai432]

Yeah and the Colts O-line is just fantastic.

Last year it was terrible, we have no idea how the Colts OL will fair this coming season though.

[BlindFan]

Seems to me a lot of Colts fans will be getting a strong dose of reality come September. It will be a long process. People need to be patient.

And the Skins are a lot better than some of you think:

• Beat the Giants twice
  
• Only lost to the Patriots by a touchdown, and with a depleted O-Line
  
• Lost to the 49ers by 8
  
• Took the Cowboys to overtime once, and only lost by 2 the other time
  

The reason the Redskins lost to bad teams was b/c of their inconsistent QB play. Turnovers especially, killed them.

Not only did they shore up their O-Line with depth this off-season (through the draft), they went out and got more weapons in Garcon and Morgan. O, not to mention the fact they got their QB that they are hoping is their franchise player.

And if anyone questions what the Shannahans can do with QB's they have a lot of faith in, I offer these examples:

Steve Young (Mike Shannahan was his QB coach, and Young credits Shannahan for taking him to that next level)

John Elway (Mike Shannahan was the only coach he won a SB with)

Jay Cutler (Mike Shannahan molded him into the player he is today)

Matt Schaub (Kyle Shannahan was the OC when Schaub revived his career in Houston)

Even QB's without much talent like Plummer and Greise have seen success with Shannahan. It's not a stretch to call him a QB guru.

[FightLikeSin]

wasnt we dead last in creating turnovers and giving up a 71.3 completion percentage..that 25th ranked defense is simply based by yards per game..look at the turnovers them other teams created as well

I'm looking at total defense in yards, how many points we gave up compared to everyone else. Not specifics.

[ruksak]

Cousins isn't likely to be in a position to step up in 2012. He'll be a third stringer in all likelihood and we'll take our lumps with Grossman if Griffin gets hurt.

I don't have a hard time believing that Cousins could give Grossman a run for his money. Grossman has shown the ability to play as bad as any QB could possibly play at times. Well.....not 'Tebow bad' but he's pretty bad.

[HtownColt]

I'm looking at total defense in yards, how many points we gave up compared to everyone else. Not specifics.

its more to defense than that..look at the packers last in total yards but was 1st in turnovers thats why they dominated games for the most part..defense really boils down to your 3rd down conversion %(gotta get off the field on 3rd down), red zone defense, and turnovers

[FightLikeSin]

its more to defense than that..look at the packers last in total yards but was 1st in turnovers thats why they dominated games for the most part..defense really boils down to your 3rd down conversion %(gotta get off the field on 3rd down), red zone defense, and turnovers

That's fine. I don't see it that way though. To me it comes down to how many points you allow on the board. All the specifics you listed are important, but it doesn't reflect the defense in it's truest sense. With that said...it could be worse.

[ruksak]

That's fine. I don't see it that way though. To me it comes down to how many points you allow on the board. All the specifics you listed are important, but it doesn't reflect the defense in it's truest sense. With that said...it could be worse.

I have to agree. Stats can become a pool of convolution. Ultimately, even if my defense allows 500 yards, if they only give up 9 points than I'm happy.

[HtownColt]

I have to agree. Stats can become a pool of convolution. Ultimately, even if my defense allows 500 yards, if they only give up 9 points than I'm happy.

no thats having Jesus on your team if you give up 500yrds and 9 points..better go to Vegas while you have that kind of luck on your side

[mjsimans]

You may as well beat us at LOS, we might have the division wrapped up by then anyway.

Enjoy your three year campaign at the top. The colts are coming for you....and then back to the norm

[MIColtsFan]

lots of interesting speculation here, but I'm not giving the Redskins/RG3 any merit over Colts/Luck.... they are still the Redskins, even with RG3 I expect they will continue their loosing record ... and their own manufactured QB drama taking Cousins won't help this team.

[ruksak]

no thats having Jesus on your team if you give up 500yrds and 9 points.

You mean Tebow?

[FightLikeSin]

Who's this "jesus" guy you speak of?

I work with a guy name jesus. He's great at web design, but I don't think he'd make a great linebacker.

[HtownColt]

I work with a guy name jesus. He's great at web design, but I don't think he'd make a great linebacker.

smh

[oldunclemark]

I've also seen and read where the analysis is Luck will have the better year towards the end of season.They see him do nothing but improve as the year rolls around and they take Luck as better season.So we must wait and see.

This is what I think

RG3 wiull start well but Luck will finsih better...becausre our team is younger

[RGIII]

Cousins was the 2nd best pro ready QB coming out behind Luck on most NFL team boards

He was also rated ahead of Weeden, Foles, Osweiler, etc. by our coaching staff. Still doesn't mean he won't be brought along slowly.

lots of interesting speculation here, but I'm not giving the Redskins/RG3 any merit over Colts/Luck.... they are still the Redskins, even with RG3 I expect they will continue their loosing record ... and their own manufactured QB drama taking Cousins won't help this team.

The Redskins aren't losers just by virtue of being the Redskins. They're losers by virtue of being mismanaged under two different owners over a ~20 year period. That mismanagement has shown signs of correcting itself in dramatic fashion to anyone who has paid attention (certainly not most Colts fans, can't blame you guys either when you have Peyton and playoff runs keeping you focused on the home team) since we brought on Bruce Allen.

This is what I think

RG3 wiull start well but Luck will finsih better...becausre our team is younger

Both teams are absurdly young. None of the Skins' major contributors on either side of the ball besides the seemingly ageless London Fletcher is over 28 years old. Most fall into the 22-26 range.

I don't have a hard time believing that Cousins could give Grossman a run for his money. Grossman has shown the ability to play as bad as any QB could possibly play at times. Well.....not 'Tebow bad' but he's pretty bad.

Rex turns the ball over too much, that's why he's on the outs with the staff. Beyond that, though, he's got a very good grasp of the offense and does possess the ability to win games without a lot of help (although he also possesses the ability to lose games with a lot of help). That's probably going to be good enough to cement his second string spot until we let him go after this season. Our coaching staff generally prefers to bring rookies along slowly, anyway.

[ruksak]

Rex turns the ball over too much, that's why he's on the outs with the staff. Beyond that, though, he's got a very good grasp of the offense and does possess the ability to win games without a lot of help (although he also possesses the ability to lose games with a lot of help). That's probably going to be good enough to cement his second string spot until we let him go after this season. Our coaching staff generally prefers to bring rookies along slowly, anyway.

We know all about Rex here in Indy. He "helped" us win our SB. But you're right, he'll be the second stringer, at least at first. Cousins cannot be happy about being drafted by Washington, and they should've been aware that drafting him would cause instant animosity in the locker room.

Suffice to say, this Luck vs Griffin debate is going to rage for awhile. At least until Luck is crowned King Awesome of MVP mountain. There is such a thing, ya know.

[HOFClipboardHolder]

We know all about Rex here in Indy. He "helped" us win our SB. But you're right, he'll be the second stringer, at least at first. Cousins cannot be happy about being drafted by Washington, and they should've been aware that drafting him would cause instant animosity in the locker room.

Suffice to say, this Luck vs Griffin debate is going to rage for awhile. At least until Luck is crowned King Awesome of MVP mountain. There is such a thing, ya know.

Are those SB MVPs or regular season MVPs?

[Nobody]

Cousins was the 2nd best pro ready QB coming out behind Luck on most NFL team boards

I think Cousins isn't at all a good QB. He's a career backup, IMO.

Yeah and the Colts O-line is just fantastic.

[Vance]

I thought you were ignoring me? Couldn't stay away from me I guess.

[Playoffs2013]

Seems to me a lot of Colts fans will be getting a strong dose of reality come September. It will be a long process. People need to be patient.

And the Skins are a lot better than some of you think:

• Beat the Giants twice
  
• Only lost to the Patriots by a touchdown, and with a depleted O-Line
  
• Lost to the 49ers by 8
  
• Took the Cowboys to overtime once, and only lost by 2 the other time
  

The reason the Redskins lost to bad teams was b/c of their inconsistent QB play. Turnovers especially, killed them.

Not only did they shore up their O-Line with depth this off-season (through the draft), they went out and got more weapons in Garcon and Morgan. O, not to mention the fact they got their QB that they are hoping is their franchise player.

And if anyone questions what the Shannahans can do with QB's they have a lot of faith in, I offer these examples:

Steve Young (Mike Shannahan was his QB coach, and Young credits Shannahan for taking him to that next level)

John Elway (Mike Shannahan was the only coach he won a SB with)

Jay Cutler (Mike Shannahan molded him into the player he is today)

Matt Schaub (Kyle Shannahan was the OC when Schaub revived his career in Houston)

Even QB's without much talent like Plummer and Greise have seen success with Shannahan. It's not a stretch to call him a QB guru.

excuse me but we had alot of close games too without a qb and a depleted D ando line give us some credit. Just to name a few close losses to NE, TB, PiT, ClevelNd, blew a lead vs the chiefs, Close game vs cincy,Choked vs the panthers and this was with painter under center, imagine Peyton. Close to playoffs at 9-7

[ruksak]

I see it this way;

The Colts invested in their future and the Skins mortgaged their future. An investment pays off over time. A mortgage requires future payment. I believe the payment due for the Skins will far exceed the worth of their decision.

[Jay305]

Yeah and the Colts O-line is just fantastic.

It will be with everyone coming back healthy.

[The Peytonator]

I see it this way;

The Colts invested in their future and the Skins mortgaged their future. An investment pays off over time. A mortgage requires future payment. I believe the payment due for the Skins will far exceed the worth of their decision.

Agreed. They really set RG3 up for a rough go of it. I know people say they're built to win now, but I just don't see it happening in that division. Then they draft a backup QB in round 4? How do they justify that one? Really some strange moves by that organization. I thought Shanahan was supposed to be smart.

[funktacious2]

Going back on topic, I think Luck will have the better Rookie year. The Skins offense isn't exactly loaded, whether their overall team is good or not. And if we're gonna label things in terms of wins instead of stats, then RG3 is in for a tough season.

And how is beating Detroit justified by them having Jacob Lacey lol? They're still going to put up 35+ points a game. lol And their Defense has only gotten better.

[Malakai432]

Going back on topic, I think Luck will have the better Rookie year. The Skins offense isn't exactly loaded, whether their overall team is good or not. And if we're gonna label things in terms of wins instead of stats, then RG3 is in for a tough season.

And how is beating Detroit justified by them having Jacob Lacey lol? They're still going to put up 35+ points a game. lol And their Defense has only gotten better.

Everyone knows Detroit is prepped for a SB run with Lacey.

[John Dee]

Yeah and the Colts O-line is just fantastic.

OL may not be .. but the QB is.

[MIColtsFan]

great thread

[MIColtsFan]

He was also rated ahead of Weeden, Foles, Osweiler, etc. by our coaching staff. Still doesn't mean he won't be brought along slowly.

The Redskins aren't losers just by virtue of being the Redskins. They're losers by virtue of being mismanaged under two different owners over a ~20 year period. That mismanagement has shown signs of correcting itself in dramatic fashion to anyone who has paid attention (certainly not most Colts fans, can't blame you guys either when you have Peyton and playoff runs keeping you focused on the home team) since we brought on Bruce Allen.

Both teams are absurdly young. None of the Skins' major contributors on either side of the ball besides the seemingly ageless London Fletcher is over 28 years old. Most fall into the 22-26 range.

Rex turns the ball over too much, that's why he's on the outs with the staff. Beyond that, though, he's got a very good grasp of the offense and does possess the ability to win games without a lot of help (although he also possesses the ability to lose games with a lot of help). That's probably going to be good enough to cement his second string spot until we let him go after this season. Our coaching staff generally prefers to bring rookies along slowly, anyway.

LOL... exactly... Redskins have a loosing record same as the Lions did due to mismanagement .... and when people speak of their loosing record they don't say "the Lions management loosing record" they say "the Lions" or "the Redskins"

[Vance]

OL may not be .. but the QB is.

QB can be John Elway, if you don't give him time, it's not gonna be pretty.

[BOTT]

Agreed. They really set RG3 up for a rough go of it. I know people say they're built to win now, but I just don't see it happening in that division. Then they draft a backup QB in round 4? How do they justify that one? Really some strange moves by that organization. I thought Shanahan was supposed to be smart.

he was a genius....... when he had elway and alex gibbs

[BleedingBlue]

I see it this way;

The Colts invested in their future and the Skins mortgaged their future. An investment pays off over time. A mortgage requires future payment. I believe the payment due for the Skins will far exceed the worth of their decision.

The colts erased the last dynasty's continued chances (2-3 years) for building another dynasty's in hopes of success down the road. We were a balloon that would have made a very loud financial pop at this pace. Although, with all the winning, its difficult to draft and stay cap friendly so I challenge any GM with the task we had in front of us.

The redskins had a better team on both sides of the ball than the Colts but suffered from inconsistent play at QB so they brought in two rookie QBs to set up their future. This team is not too old and not too unfriendly on the cap so saying the mortgaged their future is an overstatement.

Its hard to compare these two teams other than they were the opposites of one another and they chose opposite routes. I side with the redskins method which is to fix the one thing that is broken and leave what works alone.