Report: Brents to IR

[Yoshinator]

13 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

No you don't. You don't have to assume anything. You play them for a year and look for that IT thing that tells you he's the guy. THEN you go all in for year 2. 

 

Right now I don't think Levis is the guy for the Titans. They still went all in and I think they'll suffer for that.

 

The Titans also spent big in FA because they ASSUMED. I haven't seen it from Levis and I think they'll suffer for it.

 

And it's really unfortunate AR got injured, but if you start pushing the bill ahead of you without knowing what we have it'll come back to bite you.

No, you draft a QB at 4, you put him in the best possible situation to win. Why would you make it harder on your young QB than it already has to be? 

 

Even if Levis isn't the guy, the Titans are in a better situation now then they would have been if they didn't go all-in. Why? Any QB they draft is on a rookie contract and he will be in the same situation as Levis under a rookie contract.

 

 

[Solid84]

6 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

No, you draft a QB at 4, you put him in the best possible situation to win. Why would you make it harder on your young QB than it already has to be? 

 

Even if Levis isn't the guy, the Titans are in a better situation now then they would have been if they didn't go all-in. Why? Any QB they draft is on a rookie contract and he will be in the same situation as Levis under a rookie contract.

 

 

The Colts roster was already decent when we got AR. The Titans were *. You're acting like the Colts are trotting out 3rd stringers and AR will get slaughtered if we don't spend to the cap.

 

What the Titans are doing is not sustainable either because the FAs they brought in are nearing the end of their careers and don't want to keep losing or they want too much money.

 

I don't like we don't have a couple of veterans in the secondary, but throwing future draft picks and money at it now is not the way to handle it.

[RollerColt]

The rookie contact stuff gets thrown around a lot on here. I fell into it as well for awhile. But it's mostly false that you have to win a super bowl before the rookie contract ends. 

 

Look at the Rams with Stafford. Look at the Lions with Goff. Ravens are doing just fine with Jackson. Dolphins and Bills seem okay with their respective QBs making large sums of money. 

 

49ers will be fine after Purdy gets paid. 

 

Cowboys just inked all of their major players and waxed the Browns... 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

54 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The Texans went all in after Stroud had a full season proving he was their guy. We're not in that situation. We still need AR to prove it because he was injured last season. Alternatively you do what the Titans have done - betting on a QB who didn't prove it. That can lead to cap-hell.

They still went from last to first in one year.

[Yoshinator]

8 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The Colts roster was already decent when we got AR. The Titans were *. You're acting like the Colts are trotting out 3rd stringers and AR will get slaughtered if we don't spend to the cap.

 

What the Titans are doing is not sustainable either because the FAs they brought in are nearing the end of their careers and don't want to keep losing or they want too much money.

 

I don't like we don't have a couple of veterans in the secondary, but throwing future draft picks and money at it now is not the way to handle it.

You could argue that the Colts have 3rd stringers at RB behind Taylor. I would also argue that we have 3rd stringers at TE. Not one guy worth starting. Bunch of young busts at the position. The LBers are overrated and bad, the secondary has no depth and we are about to feel it with Brents out. The only strength of this team is the O-Line/D-Line and maybe WR.

 

Again, at least the Titans are trying to make life easier for Levis. If he fails, it won't be because he has a bad team around him, it'll be because he's a bust. With Richardson, it could be the team or him, we don't know. We're forcing him to score 30 a game so that's a lot on his back.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

1 hour ago, Mitch Connors said:

Why would a GM ever have a goal that centers around not contending? There have been way too many excuses for Ballard and this is just another one.

• Texans and Colts - both lost a franchise QB unexpectedly.
• Both started over with new head coaches.
• Both needed new franchise QBs.
• One is a legit playoff threat with aspirations of a deep playoff run and.....the other is content not winning? 

Could anyone objectively observe the last 6 years of Texans/Colts and say Ballard is doing a good job? At a minimum its crystal clear he could be doing a better job. 

the Texans didn’t lose a QB they gained 3 first round picks and a fourth round pick. 

[Patrick Miller]

Maybe brents going on ir is a blessing in disguise. I wasn’t too impressed with him anyway. Might be an improvement to have some veteran experience back there.

[shasta519]

Just now, RollerColt said:

The rookie contact stuff gets thrown around a lot on here. I fell into it as well for awhile. But it's mostly false that you have to win a super bowl before the rookie contract ends. 

 

Look at the Rams with Stafford. Look at the Lions with Goff. Ravens are doing just fine with Jackson. Dolphins and Bills seem okay with their respective QBs making large sums of money. 

 

49ers will be fine after Purdy gets paid. 

 

Cowboys just inked all of their major players and waxed the Browns... 

 

Yeah, but most of those teams still tried to take advantage of that rookie QB contract. 

 

Having Mahomes at QB is the only proven way to win a QB recently. But having a QB on a rookie deal certainly allows for at team to be aggressive to try to make up that gap. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RollerColt]

4 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

They still went from last to first in one year.

No. They went: 

 

4 and 12 in 2020.

4 and 13 in 2021. 

3 and 13 and 1 in 2022. 

 

3 years of complete collapse and high draft picks coupled with the worst trade of all time in the Browns giving up a decade worth of development for Watson. 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

51 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Completely disagree here.

 

1.) If you draft a franchise QB at 4, you have to assume he's the guy. If he has to prove it first, then your skills as a GM aren't worth crap. I don't care if he was injured, you can't go about it halfway.

 

2.) The Titans drafted Levis in the 2nd round. If he fails, then the Titans draft another QB next year. Here's the great thing about what they did. That new QB hypothetically will have a solid team waiting for him his rookie year.

 

3.) Richardson is in his 2nd year right now. Assuming you wait and he "proves himself" this year, he will be in his 3rd year of his contract next year. That's two years of a rookie contract as the 5th year option will be much more expensive as would an extension. At that point, Richardson is getting paid a lot of money and you have to build a team around that. The advantage over other teams that paid their QB is now gone at that point. We should have built around AR this offseason. We only have a three year window before he gets paid. That'll go by quickly.

It’s exactly how bears approached it too. They have a good supporting cast around Williams.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, RollerColt said:

No. They went: 

 

4 and 12 in 2020.

4 and 13 in 2021. 

3 and 13 and 1 in 2022. 

 

3 years of complete collapse and high draft picks coupled with the worst trade of all time in the Browns giving up a decade worth of development for Watson. 

 

They were last in the division in 22. Then won the division 

[RollerColt]

Just now, shasta519 said:

 

Yeah, but most of those teams still tried to take advantage of that rookie QB contract. 

 

Having Mahomes at QB is the only proven way to win a QB recently. But having a QB on a rookie deal certainly allows for at team to be aggressive to try to make up that gap. 

 

Sure, they certainly did once the realized their respective QB was a definite thing. 

 

All I'm saying, the world doesn't end once a rookie QB's contract is over. If the QB is THAT good, the window stays open, even if the salaries are a bit more complicated. 

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

It’s exactly how bears approached it too. They have a good supporting cast around Williams.

Exactly. Williams may suck and bust, but if he does, then 1.) You'll know for sure it's Williams and not the team lacking, and 2.) The next QB will have a team waiting for him. If Williams hits, you built around him early and are ready to compete for the playoffs immediately.

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

They were last in the division in 22. Then won the division 

They were either last or 3rd in the division for THREE STRAIGHT YEARS before turning it on. 

 

It's not like the Colts where we went 2-14 in 2011 and then right back into winning 11 games in 2012. 

 

They were historically bad for THREE YEARS before turning it around. The team was slowly being built before Stroud ever stepped foot on the field. The pieces were already getting assembled. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Exactly. Williams may suck and bust, but if he does, then 1.) You'll know for sure it's Williams and not the team lacking, and 2.) The next QB will have a team waiting for him. If Williams hits, you built around him early and are ready to compete for the playoffs immediately.

I will give Ballard some credit. Because Richardson was drafted with a pretty good team around him. But it’s always the blind hole on the roster that kills us every year.

[shasta519]

Just now, RollerColt said:

 

Sure, they certainly did once the realized their respective QB was a definite thing. 

 

All I'm saying, the world doesn't end once a rookie QB's contract is over. If the QB is THAT good, the window stays open, even if the salaries are a bit more complicated. 

 

That's true. We don't know what Ballard will do once he is sure AR is the guy.

 

But if he's not making moves after that, then I have doubts he would after AR gets on his second deal.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

They were last in the division in 22. Then won the division 

Caserio was also without a 1st and 2nd round pick the first year of his tenure. So he was at a disadvantage before the Watson trade. People fail to mention that that say the Texans had an advantage with the Watson trade. Yes Caserio got a bit lucky, but he was also aggressive, and when Stroud hit, they made the playoffs because they didn't "wait" for him to prove himself with an inferior team.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

That’s what is frustrating about Ballard. He has build a good team who can play with anyone but that one hole kills the team and they fall a game or two short every year.  

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I will give Ballard some credit. Because Richardson was drafted with a pretty good team around him. But it’s always the blind hole on the roster that kills us every year.

Yep, then he'll say it's on him in the end of year presser and repeat the same mistake at another position next year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

 

That's true. We don't know what Ballard will do once he is sure AR is the guy.

 

But if he's not making moves after that, then I have doubts he would after AR gets on his second deal.

If you take a guy at four you better believe he is the guy or you should be fired.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Caserio was also without a 1st and 2nd round pick the first year of his tenure. So he was at a disadvantage before the Watson trade. People fail to mention that that say the Texans had an advantage with the Watson trade. Yes Caserio got a bit lucky, but he was also aggressive, and when Stroud hit, they made the playoffs because they didn't "wait" for him to prove himself with an inferior team.

Caserio is very lucky the Panthers passed on Stroud. 

 

Had Houston been forced to take Bryce Young, the narrative might be different. 

[Solid84]

14 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

They still went from last to first in one year.

Because of Stroud, not FA signings.

[throwing BBZ]

15 minutes ago, Mitch Connors said:

Im not disputing anything you said. My point, in my initial reaction to another post, is that if Ballard feels like he and this team are in a position to not contend this year that's a serious problem (especially factoring in the points you made). If Ballard sat on his hands in free agency while the Texans made their team better because Ballard thought this was a throw away year he should be fired (obviously IMO). 

 

 It's year 2 of Steichen's rebuild with a Raw youngest, least experienced QB in the NFL. With other areas of raw talent that have to get better through experience playing together.

 So Get Real. It's a chance to coach up so maybe we can beat the top teams in the PLAYOFFS.  

 We have a bottom 15 roster, a bottom 5 Gus and his staff, so good luck finishing .500. 

 After this season we should know who and what we have and also be in good position to be aggressive to fine tune the roster.

 Yes we wasted many years with Frank. Now we find out if Steichen and his underlings can build an offense capable of winning a SB.

 I question whether a Ballard's defensive philosophy can be anything but mediocre. 

[shasta519]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

That’s what is frustrating about Ballard. He has build a good team who can play with anyone but that one hole kills the team and they fall a game or two short every year.  

 

It's the NFL. Outside of a handful of teams each year, teams can hang with other teams from week to week. 

 

But the larger the sample of coming short grows...the explanation becomes more about the whole than any individual part.

[Solid84]

10 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

You could argue that the Colts have 3rd stringers at RB behind Taylor. I would also argue that we have 3rd stringers at TE. Not one guy worth starting. Bunch of young busts at the position. The LBers are overrated and bad, the secondary has no depth and we are about to feel it with Brents out. The only strength of this team is the O-Line/D-Line and maybe WR.

 

Again, at least the Titans are trying to make life easier for Levis. If he fails, it won't be because he has a bad team around him, it'll be because he's a bust. With Richardson, it could be the team or him, we don't know. We're forcing him to score 30 a game so that's a lot on his back.

We're not forcing AR to do anything other than play. You think he has to win to prove he's our guy, but that's just falls. What happens on defense is not on AR and will not impact how the Colts treat AR.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, RollerColt said:

Caserio is very lucky the Panthers passed on Stroud. 

 

Had Houston been forced to take Bryce Young, the narrative might be different. 

Yep, then the Panthers would have probably went 8-9 or something with him as their team was worse. Bryce Young was still hyped up quite a bit though. It was more of a height thing than anything why it was such a surprise he went no1. However, at that time, the S2 Cognitive test boosted Young and dropped Stroud as well. That definitely factored into it.

[BeanDiasucci]

44 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

No you don't. You don't have to assume anything. You play them for a year and look for that IT thing that tells you he's the guy. THEN you go all in for year 2. 

 

Right now I don't think Levis is the guy for the Titans. They still went all in and I think they'll suffer for that.

 

The Titans also spent big in FA because they ASSUMED. I haven't seen it from Levis and I think they'll suffer for it.

 

And it's really unfortunate AR got injured, but if you start pushing the bill ahead of you without knowing what we have it'll come back to bite you.

Two things:

 

• If Richardson isn't the guy at QB, won't Ballard be done and they'll need to start over? So why wait to prove that he is the guy? 
• It looks like the Titans are in about the same salary cap situation as the Colts or slightly better. Is that wrong (I'm no salary cap expert)? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/_/year/2024/sort/cap_maximum_space

 

[Solid84]

Just now, BeanDiasucci said:

Two things:

 

• If Richardson isn't the guy at QB, won't Ballard be done and they'll need to start over? So why wait to prove that he is the guy? 
• It looks like the Titans are in about the same salary cap situation as the Colts or slightly better. Is that wrong (I'm no salary cap expert)? https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/_/year/2024/sort/cap_maximum_space

 

Ballard's career is absolutely tied to AR and we're lucky Ballard has integrity and doesn't blow everything we have to save his *. I have IMMENSE respect for Ballard on that front.

 

Couldn't say about the Titans, but even after spending big I feel their team is worse than the Colts, so they'll need to spend even more to catch up in the division.

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

We're not forcing AR to do anything other than play. You think he has to win to prove he's our guy, but that's just falls. What happens on defense is not on AR and will not impact how the Colts treat AR.

Yes and No. It puts more pressure on AR when the defense is giving up points almost every drive. That can cause him to play different and take more risks to make up for the defenses deficiencies. It's a lot easier for the QB to play well when you aren't trailing and have to pass or scramble all game when Steichen abandons the run.

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Ballard's career is absolutely tied to AR and we're lucky Ballard has integrity and doesn't blow everything we have to save his *. I have IMMENSE respect for Ballard on that front.

 

Couldn't say about the Titans, but even after spending big I feel their team is worse than the Colts, so they'll need to spend even more to catch up in the division.

Ballard knows he's safe and there's no pressure of him getting fired. That's the only explanation why he's so passive as a GM. He knows Irsay won't fire him because is basically the mouthpiece for the Colts and is more valuable than just a GM to Irsay.

[throwing BBZ]

3 hours ago, DavePSL said:

If the team makes the playoffs and Ballard stays, I will be super happy. The question is, will you be "upset" if the team has another losing record and misses the playoffs and ballard stays?

 

BTW, it should MATTER to all Colts fans what "opinion" Irsay has if the team loses.

 

 Reasoning tells me that the youngest, least experienced QB in the league, with so many other young developing hopefuls still developing, that finishing. 500 this season is a tall order. I do not expect it at all.

 If we haven't come a long way by seasons end, then I will reevaluate.

 Irsay and the girls will do the same with their own Reasonable high expectations. 

 BTW, there is a strong recent history of good young coaches delivering big things in their 3rd year. 

 This board needs a whiners thread for those that can't see the "bigger picture". The wasted years of Frank are OVER. It's a coaching and to a degree roster Reset!!!!  Get over it! 

 I would venture that Gus will have a good shot at being fired in season.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Yoshinator said:

No, you draft a QB at 4, you put him in the best possible situation to win. Why would you make it harder on your young QB than it already has to be? 

 

Even if Levis isn't the guy, the Titans are in a better situation now then they would have been if they didn't go all-in. Why? Any QB they draft is on a rookie contract and he will be in the same situation as Levis under a rookie contract.

 

 

I disagree with you on this one my friend. We will sweep the Titans. Levis is below average and they have no run game.

[ColtStrong2013]

34 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

That’s what is frustrating about Ballard. He has build a good team who can play with anyone but that one hole kills the team and they fall a game or two short every year.  

And in the past few years it’s been due to a much better qb that has the same problems but covers them up. Had we beaten the Texans Sunday, they would have blamed their secondary. They won because they had a qb making massive plays, a runningback that exploited a defense playing the pass, and a receiver that made a couple unbelievable catches that were ultimately the difference in the game. 
 

they also forced a turnover in the endzone and we did not. Slim margin Sunday and they made the plays to win the game. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I thought the Texans game would be 50/50, I was right. We lost by 2 points. I knew they would not blow us out like some predicted. We have a good roster, better than many think. Reason why we will go either 9-8 or 10-7 is because the teams we play that have good to bad QB's we will win IMO. Stroud isn't great but very good.

[shasta519]

18 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I disagree with you on this one my friend. We will sweep the Titans. Levis is below average and they have no run game.

 

I wouldn't be so sure about TEN having no run game. They just put up 140 yards on the Bears, who were a top 7 run defense last year.

 

Pollard is a good RB and Spears has juice. 

 

Their defense looked very stout too.

 

Won't matter if Levis throws games away, but I think they will be a tough to team to sweep. 

[shasta519]

30 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I thought the Texans game would be 50/50, I was right. We lost by 2 points. I knew they would not blow us out like some predicted. We have a good roster, better than many think. Reason why we will go either 9-8 or 10-7 is because the teams we play that have good to bad QB's we will win IMO. Stroud isn't great but very good.

 

Only twice did the Colts even have a higher win prob than HOU (both in mid Q1). The Colts' 2H win probability was never higher than 38% either.

 

And that was with 3 pts likely taken off the board at the end of 1H for HOU. That game was not 50/50:

 

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 hours ago, Yoshinator said:

We did get three 2nd round picks for moving down from 3 to 6 and getting Quenton Nelson in 2018. Regardless though, even if it was exactly even and we got picks for Luck, Ballard still wouldn't spend in FA, and the Texans do, so it's a moot point.

So what's your point? Ballard turned those picks into Nelson, Leonard and Smith. Not good enough for you?

[Yoshinator]

10 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

So what's your point? Ballard turned those picks into Nelson, Leonard and Smith. Not good enough for you?

That's exactly my point. He turned them into three great picks at the time. So the Colts did just as well as the Texans with their extra picks. If he would spend in FA like they do, we probably beat them at the end of last year and week 1 this year. That's literally the difference.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Sad thing colts only needed to add one vet safety and one vet CB. There wasn’t alot they needed to do outside the draft.

[shasta519]

12 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

That's exactly my point. He turned them into three great picks at the time. So the Colts did just as well as the Texans with their extra picks. If he would spend in FA like they do, we probably beat them at the end of last year and week 1 this year. That's literally the difference.

 

Ballard benefited from having early draft picks too. He's had as many top 4 picks as he's had picks in the 20s during his tenure (two each). And the other 4 picks were in the #13-16 range, although one of those was traded for Wentz.

 

I think if we were to research draft capital for the past 8 years, the Colts would find themselves at least in the top 12. I don't think we can say other teams have had some big draft capital advantage.