Ballard presser starting in a couple minutes

[stitches]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

They traded for Buckner the day before free agency, so technically it was before they signed Rivers. But yeah, I think the strategy had been formed. And I agree that it was not the right decision, but it's at least understandable. They felt like their window was opening, and they wanted a proven QB. Not what I would have done, not what I wanted them to do at the time, but I get it. I don't think it's malpractice.

I thought it was a mistake at the time and said it was a mistake. It's not malpractice, but it's just one small part of a series of similar decisions. Every single one of which was a mistake... Rivers, Wentz, Ryan. And you can argue none of them were malpractice. But they all were mistakes(at the time they were happening, not in hindsight) and he kept making the same mistake. 

 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

This seems like fanatical venting.

 

It's fine to say that the GM is responsible for personnel decisions, including the QB, so Ballard is at fault for how they handled the QB decision. No objection from me. But look at what happened, how it happened, who was involved, and then examine the fallout. Irsay couldn't get rid of Reich fast enough, and then he doubled down on Ballard. And the first offseason after Reich was gone, they drafted a QB. Even if you think that's evidence of dysfunction, again, I won't object. But it's moot now. Irsay blamed Reich, Reich is gone, and Ballard is now being evaluated on a different basis than he was prior to 2023. I don't see the point in continuing to dig up the bodies.

 

It's because this is popular enough absolution of Ballard's responsibility for what happened and putting it all on Reich. And I just fundamentally disagree with that view. No matter how much Reich was behind that move and how much he wanted it. It's still the GM's job to set the path for his team and to make the final decisions. And he kept making the same decision 3 years in a row until Irsay pretty much forced him to take a QB in the draft and Reich's firing was the proverbial setting of the example. 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't have any beef with that. But I don't think that's the question he was asked. 

 

Actually, I guess I do have a small beef with it. We already know the answer to that question. He believes in

 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

building through the draft,

I don't mind that. 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

developing your own guys,

Sure, doubt many GMs in the league would go against that. 

 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

and then paying them when they've earned it.

This is one thing that I think he's way too invested in. I wish someone asked him if he thinks our own players are some special unicorns. Because apparently all the other players in the league get overpaid in FA. But our own? Nope! We pay our own. So... everybody else gets overpaid... but Colts own players don't? He pretty much has decided to limit his pool of FA almost exclusively to our own FAs. 

 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

He thinks OL/DL is so much more valuable than anything else (other than QB),

Yep... he does. I disagree with this. 

 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

and he builds his roster with an emphasis on the trenches,

Yep... I disagree with this emphasis... and BTW... even if he was right, it's kind of peculiar how mediocre his trenches have been when you consider how much assets and money he's put in them. But that's another question. Lets hope this year they are indeed what he imagines they will be. 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

leaving perimeter positions to be auxiliary.

Yep. And I disagree with this, too... 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

With regard to defensive philosophy, he believes a zone based defense with a good pass rush is the most efficient way to build a defense, and that it's good enough to be a winning team if the defense can complement the offense.

Although, I am not the biggest fan of this defensive philosophy... I still think the lack of high end talent at key positions is the main culprit to our defensive woes, rather than the philosophy itself. 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

And on cap strategy, he believes in being disciplined with both contract structure and value, and would rather have steady cap projections than the drastic fluctuations that come with being more aggressive. 

Overall, I don't mind his disciplined approach... but I would like to know that IF/WHEN this team is ready to compete, he will actually be more selectively aggressive in supplementing this team with high level talent. I am not certain we actually know whether he would change anything if he thoguht we were close. At the time he said he thought we were close in 2020 and 2021... his approach didn't seem too different to any other year at the time. 

 

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think there's anything new for him to say about any of this. We know his beliefs, and we know why. In some cases, we don't agree with him. But he's not going to sit down for a 60 Minutes style interview and get pressed on this matters, and even if he did, he's not going to change his core beliefs. 

That's OK, but I still would have liked to hear what makes him think this approach is what wins(and specifically at the highest level) in 2024. Does he have any data that actually suggests that a LG or RT is more important than a WR for example. Or why DT is more important than an outside corner, for example...  And maybe there are some internal studies they are doing that suggest that. Maybe their internal studies suggest our own players are better than outside FAs and are the only players on the market that don't get overpaid... I'd like to actually hear it from our GM. Maybe this wasn't the right setting for such an answer and maybe a more long-form interview is better... but then again... I doubt he gives those answers even with a full hour of time. And of course I doubt any of the local beat reporters are up for the task of actually getting him to talk about any of this. 

[Jz0204945]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Ebukam is not coming back, and they basically know it. That they chose to take the flier on him rather than Woods is kind of telling.

Even if and it's a bif if they do get Ebukam back this year he wont be 2023 Ebukam so i wouldnt put him back out there unless he is for sure 100 percent so i believe for Evukam it gonna be a see you next season thing unless he really does well in rehabbing this injury that he can get cleared that fast. Do i see that happening no but some players got cleared in like less than 6 months so it could happen i just at this point dont see it happening.

[Indyfan4life]

Can someone break this down for me to the important parts? I'm guessing this was a lot of GM talk and "look".

[ColtStrong2013]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

This is one thing that I think he's way too invested in. I wish someone asked him if he thinks our own players are some special unicorns. Because apparently all the other players in the league get overpaid in FA. But our own? Nope! We pay our own. So... everybody else gets overpaid... but Colts own players don't? He pretty much has decided to limit his pool of FA almost exclusively to our own FAs. 

his response would be exactly the same as it’s been all along. That they value them because they know them. They’ve evaluated them more than anyone else and they know how they work, what kind of teammates they are, etc. And if you think our players get overpaid, you must not be paying much attention. Name one. He gets very good value out of retention. He’s been patient with extensions and even lets them explore the market. He doesn’t overpay. Comparing early wave free agents and retained players is apples/oranges, imo. One set is valued by their own team, the other set is not (or they understand they are seeking above market price and unwilling to match). 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

It's because this is popular enough absolution of the of Ballard's responsibility for what happened and putting it all on Reich. And I just fundamentally disagree with that view. No matter how much Reich was behind that move and how much he wanted it. It's still the GM's job to set the path for his team and to make the final decisions. And he kept making the same decision 3 years in a row until Irsay pretty much forced him to take a QB in the draft and Reich firing was the proverbial setting of the example. 

 

I think the absolution came from Irsay, which is why I think it's pretty defiant for you or anyone else to say that you don't care who Irsay holds responsible. It's also interesting that you think Irsay forced him to draft a QB, rather than considering that maybe Ballard wanted to draft a QB all along... To me, the fact that Reich is gone and Ballard is not is convincing evidence.

 

Quote

This is one thing that I think he's way too invested in. I wish someone asked him if he thinks our own players are some special unicorns. Because apparently all the other players in the league get overpaid in FA. But our own? Nope! We pay our own. So... everybody else gets overpaid... but Colts own players don't? He pretty much has decided to limit his pool of FA almost exclusively to our own FAs. 

 

Look at MPJ, and compare him to whatever Aiyuk gets. I'd rather have Aiyuk, but when he comes in at 150% of MPJ, you'll see why Ballard would rather keep his own. There's also a difference in paying a premium for a player with whom you're familiar, versus paying that premium for a player that no one on your staff knows. This is not an area in which I think Ballard is free from accusation, but I do think your criticism here is overly harsh. 

 

Quote

Although, I am not the biggest fan of this defensive philosophy... I still think the lack of high end talent at key positions is the main culprit to our defensive woes, rather than the philosophy itself. 

 

No question that with better players, the defense would be better. But I think the way Bradley handles the defense puts a cap on the defensive output, no matter what.

 

Quote

Overall, I don't mind his disciplined approach... but I would like to know that IF/WHEN this team is ready to compete, he will actually be more selectively aggressive in supplementing this team with high level talent. I am not certain we actually know whether he would change anything if he thoguht we were close. At the time he said he thought we were close in 2020 and 2021... his approach didn't seem too different to any other year at the time. 

 

Seriously? You don't think his approach in 2020 and 2021 was different? 

 

I don't think he'll ever drastically alter his cap management strategy, but he took big swings when he thought the team was in a window. I assume he'd be willing to do it again in the future.

 

Quote

That's OK, but I still would have liked to hear what makes him think this approach is what wins(and specifically at the highest level) in 2024. Does he have any data that actually suggests that a LG or RT is more important than a WR for example. Or why DT is more important than an outside corner, for example...  And maybe there are some internal studies they are doing that suggest that. Maybe their internal studies suggest our own players are better than outside FAs and are the only players on the market that don't get overpaid... I'd like to actually hear it from our GM. Maybe this wasn't the right setting for such an answer and maybe a more long-form interview is better... but then again... I doubt he gives those answers even with a full hour of time. And of course I doubt any of the local beat reporters are up for the task of actually getting him to talk about any of this. 

 

I'm right with you on all of this. I don't think a 15 minute presser is the setting. But there are questions I've been wanting to hear Ballard answer since 2017, and they still haven't been touched. 

[stitches]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

his response would be exactly the same as it’s been all along. That they value them because they know them. They’ve evaluated them more than anyone else and they know how they work, what kind of teammates they are, etc. And if you think our players get overpaid, you must not be paying much attention. Name one. He gets very good value out of retention. He’s been patient with extensions and even lets them explore the market. He doesn’t overpay. Comparing early wave free agents and retained players is apples/oranges, imo. One set is valued by their own team, the other set is not (or they understand they are seeking above market price and unwilling to match). 

Zaire Franklin. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Zaire Franklin. 

 

He's near the top of the second tier. Okereke got $10m/year in 2023. Al-Shaair got $11.3m/year this year. The top guys are making $18-20m/year. I think Franklin would have gotten at least the $10.4m/year that the Colts gave him this year if he was on the market. I don't think we needed to pay Franklin this year, I think we had a chance to reallocate some resources away from non-premium positions, but instead doubled down on them in some cases. But I don't think Franklin's contract makes him overpaid.

[John Waylon]

12 minutes ago, Indyfan4life said:

Can someone break this down for me to the important parts? I'm guessing this was a lot of GM talk and "look".

Everyone has made big strides this year. I think he said every player he was asked about made big strides. 

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Dobbinblitz said:

Yes, press conference semantics aside, Ballard is 54-60-1 in seven seasons with no division titles. That is what is relevant.

Need a franchise qb to win division 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, RollerColt said:

I mean, it sucks to say it because football is supposed to be a team game… but yeah… QB play is simply the single focal point for a team making the playoffs and staying home.

 

Jets with Rodgers = contender. Jets without Rodgers… well… we saw what happened… 

 

There are so many other examples…

 

Yep. They even had a top 5 defense. But there's was a bit extreme of a dropoff from Rodgers to Zach Wilson. I think a GM can mitigate some of that risk...which Ballard has done the past two years.

 

 

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, RollerColt said:

I mean, it sucks to say it because football is supposed to be a team game… but yeah… QB play is simply the single focal point for a team making the playoffs and staying home.

 

Jets with Rodgers = contender. Jets without Rodgers… well… we saw what happened… 

 

There are so many other examples…

Yeah it’s the way the NFL has evolved.  It goes back to what the announcers were saying in the Bengals game outside of the QB spot (which is a question mark right now with Richardson) this is a playoff team and frankly probably a pretty good one.  The thing is without a QB you don’t have a chance in the NFL.
 

That talent though is why Irsay is keeping Ballard.  That and Irsay appears to have absolved Ballard of the blame of the QB spot, rather fans here agree or not.  Irsay doesn’t blame Ballard for Luck being hurt and then retiring and forcing them to go to Jacoby, Rivers worked, he blamed Reich for Wentz, and I think Irsay chalks Ryan up to one of those things on paper it should have worked it just didn’t which happens.  So Irsay is looking at Richardson and going to give him a chance to prove if he’s the guy or not.  If not I think Irsay will pull the plug on Ballard but I don’t think Irsay is going to force that decision until he knows for sure on Richardson because of how well Ballard has done building the roster in other positions, again even if fans here disagree.

 

Also for the record I know none of this for fact just giving my read on what I think Irsay is thinking and why he’s done or not done things. 

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think the absolution came from Irsay, which is why I think it's pretty defiant for you or anyone else to say that you don't care who Irsay holds responsible. It's also interesting that you think Irsay forced him to draft a QB, rather than considering that maybe Ballard wanted to draft a QB all along... To me, the fact that Reich is gone and Ballard is not is convincing evidence.

 

I think there was pretty extensive reporting about Irsay wanting a rookie QB that off-season... 

 

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

Look at MPJ, and compare him to whatever Aiyuk gets. I'd rather have Aiyuk, but when he comes in at 150% of MPJ, you'll see why Ballard would rather keep his own. There's also a difference in paying a premium for a player with whom you're familiar, versus paying that premium for a player that no one on your staff knows. This is not an area in which I think Ballard is free from accusation, but I do think your criticism here is overly harsh. 

I think a lot of it was timing rather than anything else. MPJ was just one of the first WRs this off-season to get a big contract. And he's not at the level of those other guys either... but I agree with the overall point - MPJ's contract looks good now in comparison. I don't mind keeping high level players. But there definitely were players on our own roster that I thought got overpaid... or players on other teams that got contracts I would have preferred we would have given them rather than given to some of our own(Zaire, Stewart, Taven Bryan). 

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No question that with better players, the defense would be better. But I think the way Bradley handles the defense puts a cap on the defensive output, no matter what.

Agreed. Not the biggest fan of Gus or the scheme... 

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Seriously? You don't think his approach in 2020 and 2021 was different? 

I mean... I guess he did trade for Buckner and Wentz... but he didn't do anything extraordinary in FA. Didn't move any money into the future in order to accommodate more/better talent in the present. 

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

I don't think he'll ever drastically alter his cap management strategy, but he took big swings when he thought the team was in a window. I assume he'd be willing to do it again in the future.

What do you think would be a big move next season? Lets say we are 10-7 this year and win a playoff game and AR looks very promising. What would qualify as a big swing? Trading a first for ... a defensive end? I'm talking about actually stacking the roster. Making some sacrifices and realocating future resources for the present... 

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm right with you on all of this. I don't think a 15 minute presser is the setting. But there are questions I've been wanting to hear Ballard answer since 2017, and they still haven't been touched. 

yep... 

[stitches]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's near the top of the second tier. Okereke got $10m/year in 2023. Al-Shaair got $11.3m/year this year. The top guys are making $18-20m/year. I think Franklin would have gotten at least the $10.4m/year that the Colts gave him this year if he was on the market. I don't think we needed to pay Franklin this year, I think we had a chance to reallocate some resources away from non-premium positions, but instead doubled down on them in some cases. But I don't think Franklin's contract makes him overpaid.

I just don't think he's that good... there were LBs in FA that got similar money and I'd rather have almost every one of them over Franklin. 

[ColtStrong2013]

19 minutes ago, stitches said:

Zaire Franklin. 

is a captain in this franchise. He was a special teams star, has been a consummate pro and exactly what the Colts organization wants. They rewarded the guy for being that. Is he a good pass coverage back? No. But as @Supermansaid, he would have been paid similar elsewhere on the open market. They didn’t overpay him. 

[ColtStrong2013]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

I just don't think he's that good... there were LBs in FA that got similar money and I'd rather have almost every one of them over Franklin.

 

Why didn’t their respective teams want them at that price point? 

[Indyfan4life]

16 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Everyone has made big strides this year. I think he said every player he was asked about made big strides. 

[stitches]

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

is a captain in this franchise. He was a special teams star, has been a consummate pro and exactly what the Colts organization wants. They rewarded the guy for being that. Is he a good pass coverage back? No. But as @Supermansaid, he would have been paid similar elsewhere on the open market. They didn’t overpay him. 

I guess I just disagree with most Colts fans about just how good Zaire Franklin is... I think he's mediocre. He's a good run stuffer. I don't know how to value his leadership qualities and how much they are worth. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Just once I would like to go into a season where holds have been addressed and we can say heck yeah we are a good team. But every year something is missing and st the end of the year Ballard has to apologize. I am really at the point I don’t care anymore because it’s easy to predict what will happen. Ballard had since the spring to fix the secondary. He did nothing. It’s the only weak spot on the team. 

Ballard isn't the only one that doesn't change.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, stitches said:

I just don't think he's that good... there were LBs in FA that got similar money and I'd rather have almost every one of them over Franklin. 

 

I don't think Trevor Lawrence and Tua are that good, but I think the market supports their contracts, so I wouldn't call them overpaid. 

 

We talked about the Franklin decision in March, along with Stewart, Davis, etc. I hoped that, with Steichen, some resource allocation would change. I get why you don't like the contract. I just don't think this is an example of Ballard thinking there's something special about his own free agents. Franklin's contract is supported by the market. 

[stitches]

7 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Why didn’t their respective teams want them at that price point? 

I would guess different reasons for different players(some couldn't afford them, others don't want to spend big money on low-priority position, etc.)... My point wasn't that I want to spend that money on a LB. My point was that I thought most of those were better players than Zaire. 

[ColtStrong2013]

10 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think a lot of it was timing rather than anything else. MPJ was just one of the first WRs this off-season to get a big contract. And he's not at the level of those other guys either... but I agree with the overall point - MPJ's contract looks good now in comparison. I don't mind keeping high level players. But there definitely were players on our own roster that I thought got overpaid... or players on other teams that got contracts I would have preferred we would have given them rather than given to some of our own(Zaire, Stewart, Taven Bryan). 

 

Other players that received contracts you preferred we had given them… who says they wanted to be here? I think we all would have preferred Hunter this free agency. He got a deal that we were even willing to go above, by all accounts. But we didn’t give him anything, because he didn’t want it from us. So this philosophy of yours doesn’t track for me. It’s ignoring a major reality and seems like playing fantasy or madden franchise mode…  

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

Other players that received contracts you preferred we had given them… who says they wanted to be here? I think we all would have preferred Hunter this free agency. He got a deal that we were even willing to go above, by all accounts. But we didn’t give him anything, because he didn’t want it from us. So this philosophy of yours doesn’t track for me. It’s ignoring a major reality and seems like playing fantasy or madden franchise mode…  

It's all hypotheticals. We don't really know what the realistic options were. But we can draw some conclusions based on what those players got and what our players got. 

[ColtStrong2013]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

I don't know how to value his leadership qualities and how much they are worth. 

Of course not. None of us can, which is why we sit on this forum instead of dealing with contracts. It’s a complex process that none of us can understand. But one that Ballard has repeatedly talked in detail about and makes his approach very understandable. Anyone managing a team of any kind/any industry can understand the value of knowing an individual well and not letting them leave for an unknown or perceived better component to your team. The grass isn’t always greener and there are generally reasons, more than 

 

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

I would guess different reasons for different players(some couldn't afford them, others don't want to spend big money on low-priority position, etc.)

that are at play when teams let players walk in free agency. These teams aren’t tripping over dollars when looking at good leaders/overall humans on their teams. They pay their leaders. 

[stitches]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think Trevor Lawrence and Tua are that good, but I think the market supports their contracts, so I wouldn't call them overpaid. 

 

We talked about the Franklin decision in March, along with Stewart, Davis, etc. I hoped that, with Steichen, some resource allocation would change. I get why you don't like the contract. I just don't think this is an example of Ballard thinking there's something special about his own free agents. Franklin's contract is supported by the market. 

If we consider what the "market supports" then no contract is really an overpay since every contract given has been supported/dictated by the market. This is not what is meant when people say "X player is overpaid". 

[jvan1973]

18 minutes ago, stitches said:

I just don't think he's that good... there were LBs in FA that got similar money and I'd rather have almost every one of them over Franklin. 

You are acting like a fan.   You've never seen him in practice or film study.  It's silly to act like you can evaluate players on nearly zero info.   You certainly aren't the only one that does it.   But it's comical

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

If we consider what the "market supports" then no contract is really an overpay since every contract given has been supported/dictated by the market. This is not what is meant when people say "X player is overpaid". 

No player is overpaid.  They are paid what the team is willing to pay them

[stitches]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

You are acting like a fan.   You've never seen him in practice or film study.  It's silly to act like you can evaluate players on nearly zero info.   You certainly aren't the only one that does it.   But it's comical

Do I need to have ever seen him practice or study film to make my mind about what he is on game day? Is he paid for his film study prowess or for his play? I guess both, but in what proportion? 

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

Do I need to have ever seen him practice or study film to make my mind about what he is on game day? Is he paid for his film study prowess or for his play? I guess both, but in what proportion? 

You are welcome to have an uninformed opinion.    It's still comical

[GoColts8818]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

Do I need to have ever seen him practice or study film to make my mind about what he is on game day? Is he paid for his film study prowess or for his play? I guess both, but in what proportion? 

As a fan no.  If you want to compare yourself to people who are pros and do that to make opinions yes.  
 

with that said there is nothing wrong with stating your opinion as a fan that’s what this place is for.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

You are welcome to have an uninformed opinion.    It's still comical

In what way? Then pretty much 100% of the opinions on this forum are comical, because none of us are doing film study with the players and we cannot know what they do every minute of every day they are in the building. This to me is much more comical. This is a football forum, where we share opinions based on what we see. I am not trying to suggest I know any more than I do and I base my opinion almost entirely on what I see in the games. Sure... my picture is not complete. And neither is yours or anybody else's here. This doesn't make those opinions comical. 

[jvan1973]

Just now, stitches said:

In what way? Then pretty much 100% of the opinions on this forum are comical, because none of us are doing film study with the players and we cannot know what they do every minute of every day they are in the building. This to me is much more comical. This is a football forum, where we share opinions based on what we see. I am not trying to suggest I know any more than I do and I base my opinion almost entirely on what I see in the games. Sure... my picture is not complete. And neither is yours or anybody else's here. This doesn't make those opinions comical. 

You are certainly entitled to a severely uninformed opinion.   I don't have opinions on roster moves.   Because I know I don't know.   You do you,   but it's comical.  Again,  it's certainly not just you

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, stitches said:

I think there was pretty extensive reporting about Irsay wanting a rookie QB that off-season... 

 

Not coming out of the 2020 draft with a potential franchise QB is probably a fireable offense on its own (I liked Herbert, you liked Love, and realistically we could have had either of them). But I think 2021 was the year Irsay wanted them to draft someone, and I think Irsay has said that himself. 

 

By the way, it's not that I think Ballard should be completely off the hook for what happened. In fact, who knows what QB he would have wanted in those years, or how it would have worked out. I think he would have taken Justin Fields in 2021, and that probably wouldn't have gone well. I'm not trying to give him credit for a decision that he didn't make, and I'm not pretending that if we had drafted a QB in 2020 that Ballard would have been shown to be the best GM in the league. I just think it's pretty obvious that Reich was driving the QB decisions, and Irsay's decisions after 2022 told us everything we needed to know about what was happening behind the scenes.

 

Quote

I think a lot of it was timing rather than anything else. MPJ was just one of the first WRs this off-season to get a big contract. And he's not at the level of those other guys either... but I agree with the overall point - MPJ's contract looks good now in comparison. I don't mind keeping high level players. But there definitely were players on our own roster that I thought got overpaid... or players on other teams that got contracts I would have preferred we would have given them rather than given to some of our own(Zaire, Stewart, Taven Bryan). 

 

It's true that timing played a big part in MPJ's market, but I don't think he was going to be in the $30m/year range no matter what.

 

And something else that explains why our own free agents get handled differently is the fact that the Colts generally don't let their own guys hit the market. This offseason was a major outlier for the Colts; letting MPJ, Stewart, Moore, and Blackmon reach free agency is something that they normally would not do. Generally, they extend their own guys a year early, avoiding any bidding wars, and spreading out the cap hits over an extra year. 

 

Quote

I mean... I guess he did trade for Buckner and Wentz... but he didn't do anything extraordinary in FA. Didn't move any money into the future in order to accommodate more/better talent in the present. 

 

They also signed Rivers to a $25m contract, which is something they wouldn't have done if they didn't feel they had a chance to make a push that season. The Buckner trade was a first for Ballard -- first round pick + big contract for a veteran player. The Wentz trade involved two meaningful draft picks, including a future first round pick, and those are both departures from how Chris "I Love Them Picks" Ballard normally operates. They also restructured Wentz to move some of his money into 2022, nothing drastic, but also not something they had done before, and then they spent right up to the cap (they were $40m cash over cap that year). 

 

They didn't exactly go Rams style, but the approach in 2020 and 2021 was significantly different than it had been in previous years. 

 

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What do you think would be a big move next season? Lets say we are 10-7 this year and win a playoff game and AR looks very promising. What would qualify as a big swing? Trading a first for ... a defensive end? I'm talking about actually stacking the roster. Making some sacrifices and realocating future resources for the present... 

 

I don't know... Let's say they change DCs, and want a playmaker at corner or safety, maybe something happens there. Maybe even LB, since Speed will be a free agent. Or if Paye doesn't justify a new contract, maybe trying again for an upgrade at DE (they did go after Hunter this year). On offense, unless something goes wrong at OL or maybe there's a chance for a playmaking TE, I don't know what to look out for there. I guess the worst case scenario is Richardson isn't good/gets hurt, and they try to find another QB.

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

You are certainly entitled to a severely uninformed opinion.   I don't have opinions on roster moves.   Because I know I don't know.   You do you,   but it's comical.  Again,  it's certainly not just you

What do you have opinions on around the Colts? Besides opinions on the opinion of others about the Colts... This is nonsense and you know it. 

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

If we consider what the "market supports" then no contract is really an overpay since every contract given has been supported/dictated by the market. This is not what is meant when people say "X player is overpaid". 

 

I disagree, and I think you know what I mean. There are player contracts that are clearly NOT supported by the market. For example, when the Giants paid Kenny Golladay $18m/year, there were no comps to support that contract for a player of his caliber.

 

You're saying you don't think it's smart to pay Franklin $10m/year. You're not saying the Colts overpaid to have him.

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30 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree, and I think you know what I mean. There are player contracts that are clearly NOT supported by the market. For example, when the Giants paid Kenny Golladay $18m/year, there were no comps to support that contract for a player of his caliber.

 

You're saying you don't think it's smart to pay Franklin $10m/year. You're not saying the Colts overpaid to have him.

The Colts definitely overpaid him, since they could have had him on a much lower contract if they wanted him. But yeah... we can talk all day about semantics - is it "overpay", is it "overrated", is it "not smart"... you get what I mean.

 

About Kenny Golladay - he had 2 MPJ type of seasons before he got his contract. And sure, it was an outlier of a contract at the time and everybody thought it was an overpay. I guess that's one of the best examples of overpay(for its time and especially in hindsight). 

[Dobbinblitz]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Need a franchise qb to win division 

Yep, and hopefully we have one now.

[shasta519]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Zaire Franklin. 

 

Ballard gave Jacoby Brissett $28M back in 2019. He's not a stranger to overpaying, which is ironic given his stance on FA.

 

Franklin currently has the 6th highest AAV for inside LBs. Like other positions, I am sure he will down the list as other sign, but re-signing Franklin a year early was a strange decision. And this was a year after letting a much younger Oke walk for a similar AAV. 

 

So Franklin would be considered overpaid IMO. He's a run-defending MLB who struggles in pass coverage. A better 25 year-old MLB just got traded to TEN for Day 3 pick swap, yet the Colts committed to Franklin for his age 29-31 seasons. That position is not hard to fill.

 

Kenny Moore is also overpaid. It's weird how people just ignore the previous two years. Now he's a 29 year-old nickel CB. HOU just cut one of those, who has been a pretty good player.

 

These aren't big deals though, but I just don't think they are good deals either.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

The Colts definitely overpaid him, since they could have had him on a much lower contract if they wanted him. But yeah... we can talk all day about semantics - is it "overpay", is it "overrated", is it "not smart"... you get what I mean. 

 

About Kenny Golladay - he had 2 MPJ type of seasons before he got his contract. And sure, it was an outlier of a contract at the time and everybody thought it was an overpay. I guess that's one of the best examples of overpay(for its time and especially in hindsight). 

 

I said this about the Golladay contract at the time. Everyone freaked out about Christian Kirk, Golladay was the year before, and paved the way. And after that, WR contracts have gone to another planet, so these don't even look that bad anymore.

 

I disagree with the bolded. They could have let him play out the final year of his contract if they wanted, but I think he would have gotten what the Colts offered, if not more, once he hit free agency. Whether the Colts should have extended Franklin is a different story.

 

Just to get this back to where we started, Ballard generally pays his own players before the hit the market, which prevents bidding wars and makes it easier to manage their cap hits. And that's what most teams do. When a player reaches the market, you're swimming in different waters, and there are different considerations. So keeping your own free agents (especially a year early, like the Colts typically do) vs signing free agents from other teams in March is an imperfect comparison.

[stitches]

 

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I said this about the Golladay contract at the time. Everyone freaked out about Christian Kirk, Golladay was the year before, and paved the way. And after that, WR contracts have gone to another planet, so these don't even look that bad anymore.

 

I disagree with the bolded. They could have let him play out the final year of his contract if they wanted, but I think he would have gotten what the Colts offered, if not more, once he hit free agency. Whether the Colts should have extended Franklin is a different story.

 

Just to get this back to where we started, Ballard generally pays his own players before the hit the market, which prevents bidding wars and makes it easier to manage their cap hits. And that's what most teams do. When a player reaches the market, you're swimming in different waters, and there are different considerations. So keeping your own free agents (especially a year early, like the Colts typically do) vs signing free agents from other teams in March is an imperfect comparison.

Let me put it like this - this whole conversation started from how Ballard is saying every chance he gets that players get overpaid in FA. Whatever he means is what I mean. B money for C players, A money for B players... etc. We have all heard his rants on this. If he means that Azeez Al-Shaair is overpaid, the same way I mean that Franklin is overpaid... If he means that DJ reader is overpaid, this is the same way I think Grover is overpaid... etc. Except... if I HAD TO give those money to a player, I would rather give them to Al-Shaair and Reader than to our own.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Franklin currently has the 6th highest AAV for inside LBs. Like other positions, I am sure he will down the list as other sign, but re-signing Franklin a year early was a strange decision. And this was a year after letting a much younger Oke walk for a similar AAV. 

 

The top three ILBs average $19m/year. The next three average under $12m/year. Saying Franklin is 6th on the list leaves out some critical context.

 

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A better 25 year-old MLB just got traded to TEN for Day 3 pick swap, yet the Colts committed to Franklin for his age 29-31 seasons. That position is not hard to fill.

 

What makes him better? And if that's general consensus, how much do you think that player is going to command when his contract expires after this season? 

 

Whether the position is hard to fill or not, I don't think it's a premium position, and I would have been fine with finding a Franklin replacement rather than extending him. But his contract makes sense in the market.