Why is Ballard not improving his Secondary?

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Part of me wants to see too. But following a couple weeks of training camp and the news today on Cross’ nonsense leading to one of our best weapons with his foot elevated on a pillow, I have little faith in the results leading to anything but a rash move that will undoubtedly seem like one of panic. I hope that I’m proven wrong. Desperately hope that I’m wrong. But it’s where it appears to be headed and we can already look back to January and say- “HELLOOO Chris Ballard….” You knew exactly what was coming and did nothing because you didn’t want to believe it or had way too much optimism about something changing. I certainly thought we’d see a move after Scott went down again. I don’t get it. 

 

We could discuss all of this for a while, but I’ll just zero in on the bolded. The expectation was that the Colts would do something at safety, they didn’t, still haven’t, apparently won’t any time soon. And rather than wait to see how at least one preseason game goes, it’s been decided that it’s going to go bad. In fact, it’s going to be so disastrous that it’s going to cost the Colts a playoff spot. We have no results yet, but apparently it has been written. 

[NewColtsFan]

40 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

no one is going to tap the brakes and magically think like others do on this forum. People have lost patience with Ballard, and I understand it. They expect to win and yet don’t expect it with his leadership. It’s been a long road since Luck retired and it’s caught up to a lot of people. The problem is, as @DougDewwould say, we aren’t exactly Super Bowl contenders. So it’s impatience by many but the situation isn’t going to change overnight and especially not going to change overnight by getting what they want in a new GM. I’m not sure how others weren’t encouraged, at least a little, by the trend shift from 2022 to last season and by the draft we had. It’s proven to be pretty smart considering the injuries so far. Pass rush, receiver, backup center… I’m frustrated with the safety room but I also understand we don’t know what we have in the secondary. We are basing it on a season ago when 21 and 22 year olds were playing. There is little chance they haven’t improved over an offseason. I of course wish we would add to the secondary, like Ballard said would happen, and if adding a few late draft picks was his idea of “adding fuel” then that is disappointing too, especially since he has repeatedly talked about the time it takes to develop defensive backs. But I’m also far more patient than others are on here. I still like our chances and am excited for this season. And it’s going to be a long one until the very end. 

When I say tap the brakes I’m only suggesting to wait and see what this front office and head coach decide to do in the next few weeks.   I’m not expecting some miraculous change of thinking on Ballard.  

 

The Haters are going to hate, and as several have suggested, if the Colts should someday win a Super Bowl the Haters reaction will be “well it sure took long enough!”   

[ColtStrong2013]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

We could discuss all of this for a while, but I’ll just zero in on the bolded. The expectation was that the Colts would do something at safety, they didn’t, still haven’t, apparently won’t any time soon. And rather than wait to see how at least one preseason game goes, it’s been decided that it’s going to go bad. In fact, it’s going to be so disastrous that it’s going to cost the Colts a playoff spot. We have no results yet, but apparently it has been written. 

that’s not how I feel nor have I said anything of such in terms of leading to a disaster that costs us dearly. What I’ve said is that the safety room is the weakest position group on the roster, and it’s even more thin than when we began. And it doesn’t make sense that it hasn’t been addressed, given the GM’s comments on needing more from the position. They need more consistency, yet there has been every indicator that they haven’t seen that this training camp. More communication needed. It’s the same story carrying over from 2022… We have a safety in Blackmon who is great, by all accounts… but has been on IR several times and is on a 1 year deal. A draft pick in Scott that hasn’t played a down yet and back on IR. A guy in Thomas who many agree shouldn’t even be here anymore. A 22 year old 3 year vet that hasn’t matured- no consistency, no communication, getting screamed at by the HC for injuring a key player days before preseason starts. And a converted safety-linebacker-back to safety that was plucked off the street last year. What. A. Group. Both in the short term and longterm. Man… 

[throwing BBZ]

23 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

The colts saw this group play all last year. There was no reason to want to wait and see in training camp or in games. Cross and Thomas are in year 3 if you don’t know what you have by now something is wrong.

 

 It's easy to see what's wrong. We've witnessed this meltdown annually.

That we didn't go get someone from the outside is the explanation.

 Our safeties are likely to be just as good as our corners and LB's in coverage. 

[Yoshinator]

41 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

When I say tap the brakes I’m only suggesting to wait and see what this front office and head coach decide to do in the next few weeks.   I’m not expecting some miraculous change of thinking on Ballard.  

 

The Haters are going to hate, and as several have suggested, if the Colts should someday win a Super Bowl the Haters reaction will be “well it sure took long enough!”   

A SB isn't even in the Colts universe right now. The "Haters" as you say, just want to make the playoffs constantly and possibly win the division. However yes, if we one day win the division, then our reaction will be "well it sure took long enough". Being a Ballard fan, you try to take it to the extreme by saying if the Colts someday win a Super Bowl. We have never been in the conversation for a SB under Ballard.

 

All my side wants to do is make the playoffs every year under Ballard by now and give ourselves a chance to win the SB every year. If we win the division, all the better. All your side does is make excuses every year when we don't win the division, don't make the playoffs, or go 1 and done the few times we've made the playoffs. 

 

Honestly, if Ballard doesn't get Simmons, then I don't care how he fixes the secondary via FA. Every move at that point would be equally bad. The only way to fix the position after Simmons would be a trade, and that would be giving up draft capital for someone like Budda Baker because you missed out on Simmons. That would also be frustrating.

[krunk]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

The colts saw this group play all last year. There was no reason to want to wait and see in training camp or in games. Cross and Thomas are in year 3 if you don’t know what you have by now something is wrong.

But somehow the more knowledgeable members of the staff don't agree with your take. 

[NewColtsFan]

32 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

A SB isn't even in the Colts universe right now. The "Haters" as you say, just want to make the playoffs constantly and possibly win the division. However yes, if we one day win the division, then our reaction will be "well it sure took long enough". Being a Ballard fan, you try to take it to the extreme by saying if the Colts someday win a Super Bowl. We have never been in the conversation for a SB under Ballard.

 

All my side wants to do is make the playoffs every year under Ballard by now and give ourselves a chance to win the SB every year. If we win the division, all the better. All your side does is make excuses every year when we don't win the division, don't make the playoffs, or go 1 and done the few times we've made the playoffs. 

 

Honestly, if Ballard doesn't get Simmons, then I don't care how he fixes the secondary via FA. Every move at that point would be equally bad. The only way to fix the position after Simmons would be a trade, and that would be giving up draft capital for someone like Budda Baker because you missed out on Simmons. That would also be frustrating.

You seem bound and determined to be unhappy.   I try to find reasonable positions  for you to consider so you can avoid the low lows.   But, no go.   Ok. 
 

I’m on record multiple times saying I want Simmons.  So I hope it happens.  Hopefully we will all find out soon enough. 

 

[krunk]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

The colts saw this group play all last year. There was no reason to want to wait and see in training camp or in games. Cross and Thomas are in year 3 if you don’t know what you have by now something is wrong.

To be honest it's kind of obvious what the Colts are going to do for the most part. When the draft was over and they didn't draft any safeties that tells you they are keeping the same group. What they are doing now is seeing whether to play Blackmon as a FS or SS and I think it's largely dependent on what they are seeing from Cross who is only 22 and highly athletic. This is a little different  from Quincy Wilson bc Wilson was young but you could tell he didn't have the talent. I'm banking about the only change they make is they'll make a waiver claim and cut Thomas or they will decide to move Simpson to FS in place of Thomas. Simmons is pretty much just a 1 yr solution at 31 yrs old. It's also obvious they haven't given up on Cross. He would have to completely blow it for Simmons to be here. And I'm skeptical about how real this so called FS crisis is. I think it's largely media driven.  The Colts defense has beaten the offense for pretty much the whole camp. You can't do that if the safeties are really playing that poor.

[AKB]

7 hours ago, ADnum1 said:

That is strange.

 

From @AKB stats Colts were ranked 29th -31st in every passing defense category. 

 

Where did you get 17th from ?

 

17th in total yards allowed. when you key in on the defensive backfield, pass yards allowed, yards per reception, plays of 20 plus we come in last in almost every metric. what carried that 17 in total yards was our stellar front play that got overshadowed by the lack of depth for the 4th quarter, and a secondary with 2 7th-rounders starting. 

Which theoretically, is why people wanted more pass-rush depth and some help in the secondary....

This defense is middle of the pack at best because of the anchor of a secondary. improve that and it easily competes for a top 10 spot. 

 

 

 

 

[TheNewGuy]

I would hate to see how some of these posters on this thread would react if faced with a real problem...smh, it is a football team that hasn't even played a pre season game. Get a grip.

[Goatface Killah]

I cant lie, I share in some of the frustration with Simmons being out there, and looking at our roster there is a clear need for a player of his caliber in our secondary. It makes too much sense.

 

But Im just not the type of person to throw a fit about things of this nature. 

 

I havent been this excited for a season in awhile. Not signing Justin Simmons wont change that. A part of me would also be just as excited to see Cross finally get a chance to be that guy, full time.

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

2 hours ago, TheNewGuy said:

I would hate to see how some of these posters on this thread would react if faced with a real problem...smh, it is a football team that hasn't even played a pre season game. Get a grip.

Brother… I know you are TheNewGuy, but this franchise has had plenty of real problems that this forum has reacted to over the past decade plus… 

[PackersNation]

Justin Simmons had dinner with Saints "team personnel" last nite. The Saints are no more a Super Bowl contender than the Colts. So, obviously it's about money with Simmons. Screw him, he will be 31 in November, paying him big money is a mistake. Next.

[TheNewGuy]

51 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Brother… I know you are TheNewGuy, but this franchise has had plenty of real problems that this forum has reacted to over the past decade plus… 

I posted on another thread that I had not been on a forum since 2010, and this is one of the reasons.

 

I see some want Cross cut...yet complain about Safety depth. How exactly does that help when he is in contention for a starting spot? Yes, he made a bone head move and compounded it with his comments regarding it. He is a kid, they make stupid decisions and sometimes try and defend them in a way that is not helpful.  Let's remember that the human brain isn't fully developed emotionally until around 25. I am not condoning any of it but cutting him is over the top.

 

Then they whining about Simmons, even calling the GM a coward, wow! How do any of know if he even wants to be a Colt? I am of the belief that had the Colts thought they were Super Bowl contenders, he would be wearing the shoe. I think any reasonable person would see that competing for the division title and possibly a playoff victory is far more reasonable.  Sometimes patience pays off.

 

Lastly, I am enjoying my time on here and hope to continue to as such...thanks to all of you, even those that I may disagree with. Now politely stepping off my soap box. Go Colts!

[DougDew]

9 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

no one is going to tap the brakes and magically think like others do on this forum. People have lost patience with Ballard, and I understand it. They expect to win and yet don’t expect it with his leadership. It’s been a long road since Luck retired and it’s caught up to a lot of people. The problem is, as @DougDewwould say, we aren’t exactly Super Bowl contenders. So it’s impatience by many but the situation isn’t going to change overnight and especially not going to change overnight by getting what they want in a new GM. I’m not sure how others weren’t encouraged, at least a little, by the trend shift from 2022 to last season and by the draft we had. It’s proven to be pretty smart considering the injuries so far. Pass rush, receiver, backup center… I’m frustrated with the safety room but I also understand we don’t know what we have in the secondary. We are basing it on a season ago when 21 and 22 year olds were playing. There is little chance they haven’t improved over an offseason. I of course wish we would add to the secondary, like Ballard said would happen, and if adding a few late draft picks was his idea of “adding fuel” then that is disappointing too, especially since he has repeatedly talked about the time it takes to develop defensive backs. But I’m also far more patient than others are on here. I still like our chances and am excited for this season. And it’s going to be a long one until the very end. 

You've touched on something here.  And to be clear, the way you put "exactly" into the SB contender thought makes it sound like a coy way of saying we suck.  We don't.  And we don't have to be a SB contender to enjoy the season.  There is fun in watching a team take steps towards achieving the goal of SB contender (if its being built the right way, which has been my beef for 7 years).  I've said before that I like to watch JAX and HOU, even though they are division rivals, because they provide entertaining FB while making progress as a team.  We all can see it, and TEN might be a season behind us.

 

What I reject is the pure positivity driven by unbridled fandom, where every year we are a playoff contender (the JB and Ryan years...um no), and every 9-8 season the year before gives us hope that the next year we should be a SB team with just a few more pieces.........if Ballard would only pull the trigger.  Fans get over invested, then disappointed, then lash out at Reich or Ballard for failing them.  The let down doesn't come from FO not signing FAs, it comes from a lack of pragmatism in the view of a favorite team that gets hopes way out over the skis of what the team really has been. 

 

Now, gee, if only Ballard would sign Simmons, we'd be right there with KC as AFC favorites.  While he may sign Simmons for $5M, IMO, one $5M starter is not going to improve the entire back 7.  If the pass coverage of the back 7 improves, it will  improve because their own development and not because of an additional FA. 

[Dingus McGirt]

11 hours ago, Yoshinator said:

Yep. Absolute garbage. There are a lot of people who are ok with this too. Dodds is just as big of a coward as Ballard. No leadership up top on this team. Ballard and Dodds couldn't run a pee wee football team, and Irsay isn't doing anything to overrule them.

Pretty damning word choices, sir.  Don’t let your frustration get out of control.  I doubt you would say any of that to anyone’s face.  Please throttle back.

[Solid84]

30 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You've touched on something here.  And to be clear, the way you put "exactly" into the SB contender thought makes it sound like a coy way of saying we suck.  We don't.  And we don't have to be a SB contender to enjoy the season.  There is fun in watching a team take steps towards achieving the goal of SB contender (if its being built the right way, which has been my beef for 7 years).  I've said before that I like to watch JAX and HOU, even though they are division rivals, because they provide entertaining FB while making progress as a team.  We all can see it, and TEN might be a season behind us.

 

What I reject is the pure positivity driven by unbridled fandom, where every year we are a playoff contender (the JB and Ryan years...um no), and every 9-8 season the year before gives us hope that the next year we should be a SB team with just a few more pieces.........if Ballard would only pull the trigger.  Fans get over invested, then disappointed, then lash out at Reich or Ballard for failing them.  The let down doesn't come from FO not signing FAs, it comes from a lack of pragmatism in the view of a favorite team that gets hopes way out over the skis of what the team really has been. 

 

Now, gee, if only Ballard would sign Simmons, we'd be right there with KC as AFC favorites.  While he may sign Simmons for $5M, IMO, one $5M starter is not going to improve the entire back 7.  If the pass coverage of the back 7 improves, it will  improve because their own development and not because of an additional FA. 

Good post and I generally I agree. 
 

Personally, I want to see progress every season from a building team. We don’t have to win the Super Bowl for me to enjoy the season. There has to be progress though and with the Colts there’s been waaay too much one step forward, one step backwards. We improve in one area, then take a step back in one area. 
 

We have a clear area of weakness. The fans see it and question why it’s not being delt with. There are competent to great players available, but then Ballard brings in a 2nd/3rd team level player and the team is once again no closer to contending. Every year, rince and repeat. 

[ColtStrong2013]

30 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You've touched on something here.  And to be clear, the way you put "exactly" into the SB contender thought makes it sound like a coy way of saying we suck.  We don't.  And we don't have to be a SB contender to enjoy the season.  There is fun in watching a team take steps towards achieving the goal of SB contender (if its being built the right way, which has been my beef for 7 years).  I've said before that I like to watch JAX and HOU, even though they are division rivals, because they provide entertaining FB while making progress as a team.  We all can see it, and TEN might be a season behind us.

 

What I reject is the pure positivity driven by unbridled fandom, where every year we are a playoff contender (the JB and Ryan years...um no), and every 9-8 season the year before gives us hope that the next year we should be a SB team with just a few more pieces.........if Ballard would only pull the trigger.  Fans get over invested, then disappointed, then lash out at Reich or Ballard for failing them.  The let down doesn't come from FO not signing FAs, it comes from a lack of pragmatism in the view of a favorite team that gets hopes way out over the skis of what the team really has been. 

 

Now, gee, if only Ballard would sign Simmons, we'd be right there with KC as AFC favorites.  While he may sign Simmons for $5M, IMO, one $5M starter is not going to improve the entire back 7.  If the pass coverage of the back 7 improves, it will  improve because their own development and not because of an additional FA. 

Nah, I’m not a pessimist to think we suck. I think we have the best qb situation we’ve had since 2018. And I think we have, aside from youth and lack of depth in the secondary, one of the better rosters we have had since then too. Super Bowl contender was probably not the correct verbiage. At the beginning of a season, everyone is a Super Bowl contender until it gets sorted out and back to reality for most teams. Serious Super Bowl contender might be better worded. In the same paragraph you quoted, I said even then, I like our chances and am excited for the season. And I agree regarding the secondary in terms of development, but I think they are very thin and with Blackmon leading the safety group as what appears to be the sole leader, it makes me nervous as it should everyone. They needed management to add fuel after Scott went down, and they did not. That doesn’t mean I want Simmons. While he’d be nice, I don’t anticipate it and he’s not the only one that would help, there’s undoubtedly plenty. 
 

i don’t believe we’re ever one player away… Too many factors, especially with injuries. I believe in depth and well-rounded rosters. It seems like there is always one position group that is very thin. That is my frustration. 

[Solid84]

12 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Good post and I generally I agree. 
 

Personally, I want to see progress every season from a building team. We don’t have to win the Super Bowl for me to enjoy the season. There has to be progress though and with the Colts there’s been waaay too much one step forward, one step backwards. We improve in one area, then take a step back in one area. 
 

We have a clear area of weakness. The fans see it and question why it’s not being delt with. There are competent to great players available, but then Ballard brings in a 2nd/3rd team level player and the team is once again no closer to contending. Every year, rince and repeat. 

I did not intend for this to be a “bash Ballard” post, please don’t take it as such. It’s more of my opinion on team building and the general state of the Colts over this past decade-ish. 

[tweezy32]

Just need people who are attending the camps to start a chant “WE WANT SIMMONS” repeatedly!!

[richard pallo]

Safety Tracy Walker is expected to sign with the 49’ers today.  On and on it goes.  It’s almost 10AM and Simmons still hasn’t signed with the Saints.  I’m surprised actually.  So we will see.  I still believe the best course of action is to get Budda Baker for a one of our players and or a day two pick.  Then extend him.  He’s younger than Simmons and in his prime.  We would have no worries for the next three years at least with him at FS.  I would view it similar to the Buckner trade.  You just don’t need the higher draft capital and you close the whole at FS.  Extending him won’t break the bank either.  I’m all alone on this one but no big deal.  Just my opinion and perspective.

[tweezy32]

58 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Safety Tracy Walker is expected to sign with the 49’ers today.  On and on it goes.  It’s almost 10AM and Simmons still hasn’t signed with the Saints.  I’m surprised actually.  So we will see.  I still believe the best course of action is to get Budda Baker for a one of our players and or a day two pick.  Then extend him.  He’s younger than Simmons and in his prime.  We would have no worries for the next three years at least with him at FS.  I would view it similar to the Buckner trade.  You just don’t need the higher draft capital and you close the whole at FS.  Extending him won’t break the bank either.  I’m all alone on this one but no big deal.  Just my opinion and perspective.

* either one works for me. As long as we get someone and don’t have what we had last year I’m good!

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

Good post and I generally I agree. 
 

Personally, I want to see progress every season from a building team. We don’t have to win the Super Bowl for me to enjoy the season. There has to be progress though and with the Colts there’s been waaay too much one step forward, one step backwards. We improve in one area, then take a step back in one area. 
 

We have a clear area of weakness. The fans see it and question why it’s not being delt with. There are competent to great players available, but then Ballard brings in a 2nd/3rd team level player and the team is once again no closer to contending. Every year, rince and repeat. 

Agree with this except the bolded:  The foundational players on this team now, can conceivably be good players in the NFL for the next 10 years.  You couldn't say that about the rinse and repeat way of doing things in the past, when the key players were an aging Rivers,  TY, AC, Doyle, Ryan, and a questionable Wentz.  Only Leonard on defense was really a long term looking guy (DeFo has defied aging a bit, IMO).   We had a long term LG, but who cares.  That rinse and repeat look of adding vets to plug holes was kind of the way the entire team was built, considering how short term some of the good players were because of age.

 

Now, the offense has a much better look to it.  Any bad season or injury to one player, does not write off the future seasons as it would have with any of the players mentioned above.  Its a roster that is simply more interesting to me...and a team more ready to have its fans invest in it.    

 

By that same thought, the addition of one mid priced veteran this season isn't really going to change how the team looks into future years, and its ability to be a perennial contender.

 

I prefer to see the young secondary guys play, because I think they have the potential of being building blocks for the future and to match up with our offensive players.  BTW, I think the secondary players have more potential to fill that role than our current crop of coverage LBers, JMO. 

 

Essentially, adding mid priced vets at this point has a different look to it than it did in the past.  JMO.

[BeanDiasucci]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

When I say tap the brakes I’m only suggesting to wait and see what this front office and head coach decide to do in the next few weeks.   I’m not expecting some miraculous change of thinking on Ballard.  

 

The Haters are going to hate, and as several have suggested, if the Colts should someday win a Super Bowl the Haters reaction will be “well it sure took long enough!”   

 

Hater: A person who actively and aggressively criticizes and disparages something or someone (such as a celebrity or public figure)

 

You love calling people haters if they make any criticism of Ballard. But do you really see much aggressive criticism of Ballard here? For a GM with a record six games under .500, no division titles, and only one playoff win in seven seasons, I think posters here are, for the most part, pretty positive about Ballard. I think he'd get a B or C+ grade from some of us who aren't as positive, but that isn't hate. Is it? Does everybody have to give him an A or they are a hater? During discussions here of where he stands among the league's GMs, I think the take of almost everyone I saw was that he's in the upper half or the middle. Is that hate? I see one person yesterday ranting about Ballard potentially being fired and nobody seems to agree with him. 

 

Using the hater label again and again feels like a bullying tactic to me to block all criticism and to silence those who disagree with your perhaps overly positive view of Ballard. 

[ColtStrong2013]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agree with this except the bolded:  The foundational players on this team now, can conceivably be good players in the NFL for the next 10 years.  You couldn't say that about the rinse and repeat way of doing things in the past, when the key players were an aging Rivers,  TY, AC, Doyle, Ryan, and a questionable Wentz.  Only Leonard on defense was really a long term looking guy (DeFo has defied aging a bit, IMO).   We had a long term LG, but who cares.  That rinse and repeat look of adding vets to plug holes was kind of the way the entire team was built, considering how short term some of the good players were because of age.

 

Now, the offense has a much better look to it.  Any bad season or injury to one player, does not write off the future seasons as it would have with any of the players mentioned above.  Its a roster that is simply more interesting to me...and a team more ready to have its fans invest in it.    

 

By that same thought, the addition of one mid priced veteran this season isn't really going to change how the team looks into future years, and its ability to be a perennial contender.

 

I prefer to see the young secondary guys play, because I think they have the potential of being building blocks for the future and to match up with our offensive players.  BTW, I think the secondary players have more potential to fill that role than our current crop of coverage LBers, JMO. 

 

Essentially, adding mid priced vets at this point has a different look to it than it did in the past.  JMO.

 

All good points. To the bolded, I also prefer to see young secondary continue to grow. And my feelings regarding safety isn't that we need to go get someone like Simmons, it's more that I think it's thin and clearly undefined at this point, which isn't necessarily as bad as we are making it, considering that could be resolved as early as next week. My concern is that our only veteran leader back there is Blackmon, who is on a year deal. So the youth aspect is not exactly a perfect situation, as the others are not under contract longterm either. Far from the cornerback situation. We simply don't have a longterm outlook at this moment at safety, and the depth of the unit is concerning given the injury history and the subpar play on the field. It's not a disaster, it's just not ideal. With Ballard's history of successful linebacker pickups/drafting, I'm not near as concerned about the linebackers, which some will say are equally or greater concerning to them as safety. I am concerned about the safety positions. 

I agree wholeheartedly on the foundational pieces looking good for the longterm. We just don't have foundational piece at safety. Perhaps that is why they are taking the approach they are with the group we have, trying to elevate one or two them to that role. Adding midpriced vet as safety, to me, is necessary not for taking away the time the younger players get/develop, but as an insurance policy. At the moment, we have very little margin for error at safety, in my opinion. 

[Solid84]

30 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agree with this except the bolded:  The foundational players on this team now, can conceivably be good players in the NFL for the next 10 years.  You couldn't say that about the rinse and repeat way of doing things in the past, when the key players were an aging Rivers,  TY, AC, Doyle, Ryan, and a questionable Wentz.  Only Leonard on defense was really a long term looking guy (DeFo has defied aging a bit, IMO).   We had a long term LG, but who cares.  That rinse and repeat look of adding vets to plug holes was kind of the way the entire team was built, considering how short term some of the good players were because of age.

 

Now, the offense has a much better look to it.  Any bad season or injury to one player, does not write off the future seasons as it would have with any of the players mentioned above.  Its a roster that is simply more interesting to me...and a team more ready to have its fans invest in it.    

 

By that same thought, the addition of one mid priced veteran this season isn't really going to change how the team looks into future years, and its ability to be a perennial contender.

 

I prefer to see the young secondary guys play, because I think they have the potential of being building blocks for the future and to match up with our offensive players.  BTW, I think the secondary players have more potential to fill that role than our current crop of coverage LBers, JMO. 

 

Essentially, adding mid priced vets at this point has a different look to it than it did in the past.  JMO.

I agree the core is better and more stable now, but the rate of actual improvement is just too slow.
 

Current example and worst case, by the time Safety and CB are fixed guys like Buckner and Stewart will be too old to rely on. Then they’re starting over with another 3-4 year process of finding the right replacements and by the time that’s fixed our Oline will need updating and so on. That’s the drawback of not regularly bringing reliable veteran talent to secure a solid floor. 
 

The Colts will have to string together 2-4 really good drafts for them to get to an actual window of contention. 
 

And here we go again, I don’t want to derail this into bashing of the FO. I know it seriously bothers a lot of posters and I’m conciously trying to limit my particopation in that. Apologies. I will let it rest now. 

[Superman]

10 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

that’s not how I feel nor have I said anything of such in terms of leading to a disaster that costs us dearly. What I’ve said is that the safety room is the weakest position group on the roster, and it’s even more thin than when we began. And it doesn’t make sense that it hasn’t been addressed, given the GM’s comments on needing more from the position. They need more consistency, yet there has been every indicator that they haven’t seen that this training camp. More communication needed. It’s the same story carrying over from 2022… We have a safety in Blackmon who is great, by all accounts… but has been on IR several times and is on a 1 year deal. A draft pick in Scott that hasn’t played a down yet and back on IR. A guy in Thomas who many agree shouldn’t even be here anymore. A 22 year old 3 year vet that hasn’t matured- no consistency, no communication, getting screamed at by the HC for injuring a key player days before preseason starts. And a converted safety-linebacker-back to safety that was plucked off the street last year. What. A. Group. Both in the short term and longterm. Man… 

 

I'm not attributing all of those thoughts to you personally. But that's the sentiment being expressed in this very thread.

 

The Colts have said all offseason, several times, that they want to let their guys compete at safety. This thread, from the very beginning ignores that explanation. And the reason it's ignored is simply because people want something different to happen. Not because they have anything on which to judge the plan at safety so far, but because 'it doesn't make sense!' 

 

I'm not saying any of this as someone who is trying to defend Ballard and the Colts. I think they should have done something at safety also. I'm saying this as someone who has actually listened to Ballard during his half dozen appearances this offseason. He's told us what the plan is. If the results are bad, feel free to drag him. But right now, he's being judged, not on the basis of any results, but simply on the basis of people not liking the plan. And it's old.

[ColtStrong2013]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I agree the core is better and more stable now, but the rate of actual improvement is just too slow.
 

Current example and worst case, by the time Safety and CB are fixed guys like Buckner and Stewart will be too old to rely on. Then they’re starting over with another 3-4 year process of finding the right replacements and by the time that’s fixed our Oline will need updating and so on. That’s the drawback of not regularly bringing reliable veteran talent to secure a solid floor. 
 

The Colts will have to string together 2-4 really good drafts for them to get to an actual window of contention. 
 

And here we go again, I don’t want to derail this into bashing of the FO. I know it seriously bothers a lot of posters and I’m conciously trying to limit my particopation in that. Apologies. I will let it rest now. 

I would put my money on one of the next  draft being a defensive tackle. They are still developing there but from a draft standpoint, I look for them to utilize a first rounder at d-tackle in the near future. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not attributing all of those thoughts to you personally. But that's the sentiment being expressed in this very thread.

 

The Colts have said all offseason, several times, that they want to let their guys compete at safety. This thread, from the very beginning ignores that explanation. And the reason it's ignored is simply because people want something different to happen. Not because they have anything on which to judge the plan at safety so far, but because 'it doesn't make sense!' 

 

I'm not saying any of this as someone who is trying to defend Ballard and the Colts. I think they should have done something at safety also. I'm saying this as someone who has actually listened to Ballard during his half dozen appearances this offseason. He's told us what the plan is. If the results are bad, feel free to drag him. But right now, he's being judged, not on the basis of any results, but simply on the basis of people not liking the plan. And it's old.

I get it. And as I posted earlier, I’m more concerned about the depth of the unit. Both this season and certainly longterm. From a planning standpoint, it just seems way different than with other positions. Maybe Blackmon is that wildcard reason for that. they’d like him to have been healthy and a longterm solution, but that’s not reality. So we are where we are with him. 

[Superman]

7 hours ago, AKB said:

 

17th in total yards allowed. when you key in on the defensive backfield, pass yards allowed, yards per reception, plays of 20 plus we come in last in almost every metric. what carried that 17 in total yards was our stellar front play that got overshadowed by the lack of depth for the 4th quarter, and a secondary with 2 7th-rounders starting. 

Which theoretically, is why people wanted more pass-rush depth and some help in the secondary....

This defense is middle of the pack at best because of the anchor of a secondary. improve that and it easily competes for a top 10 spot. 

 

I agree with most of this post. I sincerely disagree with the last line of it. I don't think it's reasonable to expect this defense to be a legit top 10 defense, and I'd feel the same way if we had Ed Reed at FS. I think our defense is fundamentally flawed from a scheme standpoint, and the only way to make up for those flaws is a fearsome front four that gets consistent pressure on the QB. 

[ColtStrong2013]

16 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The Colts will have to string together 2-4 really good drafts for them to get to an actual window of contention

I think it goes without saying that’s been their plan all along… stacking draft. 
 

let’s assume we do nail the next 2 drafts and also assume that the following continue developing into really strong players for us. 
 

2022- Raisman LT

2023 - Richardson qb

    -Brents CB1

   - downs WR 

   - Jones CB2 

2024- Latu- edge

   - Mitchell - WR

   - goncalves - o-line 

   - Bortolini - o-line 

 

that is a pretty dang good foundational group, at the premium positions too, that could all reasonably develop into really good longterm players for us (not to mention what will be the older vets in place- Pittman, possibly still JT, Nelson, Buckner- albeit old Buck, etc). Some of that list may even be elite, ideally at the QB, WR, LT, and Edge positions. Stacking 2 or more drafts could absolutely make this team a stable contention team with Steichen leading them. 

It’s why I still have belief in Ballard and am more optimistic moving forward than I have been since 2019 prior to Luck retiring.

  

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

The Colts will have to string together 2-4 really good drafts for them to get to an actual window of contention. 

 

I agree. But I think it's possible we just had our second really good draft in a row. And 2022 was Pierce, Raimann, Woods, Cross, Ogletree, (and Thomas, who is probably limited but hasn't been as bad as the recent discourse would suggest), so it was definitely productive, although maybe capped in some ways.

 

To Doug's point (weird), the Colts have reset in the last couple years, which is why moving past the 'Ballard has been doing this for seven years' talking point is reasonable. The team was stuck in the mud for a solid stretch, and now I think the arrow is pointing up. Yeah, we need to capitalize while some of the older players are still playing well. We'll see how that goes. But making such a big deal about one position seems stubborn and narrow in focus. 

[richard pallo]

15 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I agree the core is better and more stable now, but the rate of actual improvement is just too slow.
 

Current example and worst case, by the time Safety and CB are fixed guys like Buckner and Stewart will be too old to rely on. Then they’re starting over with another 3-4 year process of finding the right replacements and by the time that’s fixed our Oline will need updating and so on. That’s the drawback of not regularly bringing reliable veteran talent to secure a solid floor. 
 

The Colts will have to string together 2-4 really good drafts for them to get to an actual window of contention. 
 

And here we go again, I don’t want to derail this into bashing of the FO. I know it seriously bothers a lot of posters and I’m conciously trying to limit my particopation in that. Apologies. I will let it rest now. 

Your points about Buckner and Stewart make perfect sense.  You can throw in Moore, Kelly, Nelson, Smith as well.  These players are in their prime.  Our only glaring hole is FS.  Bring in a good veteran and give this team a better chance to make the playoffs and maybe beyond.  We signed our own this season for a reason.  They are all good players.  We should be a good team.  Just plug that one hole in the dike and give them a better chance.

[ColtStrong2013]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

But making such a big deal about one position seems stubborn and narrow in focus. 

it is narrow in focus- because we are 3 weeks away from week 1 against CJ stroud and don’t feel very good about one position. 

[Solid84]

7 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I think it goes without saying that’s been their plan all along… stacking draft. 
 

let’s assume we do nail the next 2 drafts and also assume that the following continue developing into really strong players for us. 
 

2022- Raisman LT

2023 - Richardson qb

    -Brents CB1

   - downs WR 

   - Jones CB2 

2024- Latu- edge

   - Mitchell - WR

   - goncalves - o-line 

   - Bortolini - o-line 

 

that is a pretty dang good foundational group, at the premium positions too, that could all reasonably develop into really good longterm players for us (not to mention what will be the older vets in place- Pittman, possibly still JT, Nelson, Buckner- albeit old Buck, etc). Some of that list may even be elite, ideally at the QB, WR, LT, and Edge positions. Stacking 2 or more drafts could absolutely make this team a stable contention team with Steichen leading them. 

It’s why I still have belief in Ballard and am more optimistic moving forward than I have been since 2019 prior to Luck retiring.

  

 

Just now, Superman said:

 

I agree. But I think it's possible we just had our second really good draft in a row. And 2022 was Pierce, Raimann, Woods, Cross, Ogletree, (and Thomas, who is probably limited but hasn't been as bad as the recent discourse would suggest), so it was definitely productive, although maybe capped in some ways.

 

To Doug's point (weird), the Colts have reset in the last couple years, which is why moving past the 'Ballard has been doing this for seven years' talking point is reasonable. The team was stuck in the mud for a solid stretch, and now I think the arrow is pointing up. Yeah, we need to capitalize while some of the older players are still playing well. We'll see how that goes. But making such a big deal about one position seems stubborn and narrow in focus. 

Yup, but the jury’s still out on the ‘22 and ‘23 drafts. Downs and Raiman look like they could be monsters. AR has shown flashes and we keep hearing good things. Ogletree has showns flashes. But, how many “more-than-average” guys have we really got though?

 

I still think we’re at least one REALLY good draft away, but we’re trending in the trght direction. 👍

[IndyEV]

Why not go after Gilmore again? He knows the system already, all the Colts need to do is convince him that somehow they are SB contenders!

[throwing BBZ]

12 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

it is narrow in focus- because we are 3 weeks away from week 1 against CJ stroud and don’t feel very good about one position. 

 

 Being stubborn about not being concerned about our Entire back seven playing as a unit. 

 Our coaches positive analysis of how well Cross and Blackmon played our last two games means nothing to our couch tater GM/ coaches. Chuckle 

 Ya'll know, but really don't know what ya don't know. You are NOT in the room, not on the field, and haven't a clue what they are being asked to do.

 Cross has reasonable potential to be a really special Colt, he just needs 15 starts to learn what he needs to learn. 

[Superman]

28 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

 

Yup, but the jury’s still out on the ‘22 and ‘23 drafts. Downs and Raiman look like they could be monsters. AR has shown flashes and we keep hearing good things. Ogletree has showns flashes. But, how many “more-than-average” guys have we really got though?

 

I still think we’re at least one REALLY good draft away, but we’re trending in the trght direction. 👍

 

Yeah, you don't know you've had 2-4 really good drafts until 2-4 years later. We'll see. And "more-than-average" is just one part of the evaluation, we need to have players at game changing positions also, starting with QB, which will change everything. 

[krunk]

43 minutes ago, IndyEV said:

Why not go after Gilmore again? He knows the system already, all the Colts need to do is convince him that somehow they are SB contenders!

Bc the Colts corners have had a good camp. Also the staff has never pointed out CB to be an issue. I wouldn't expect Gilmore unless injury took one of the starters out 

[ColtStrong2013]

45 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Being stubborn about not being concerned about our Entire back seven playing as a unit. 

 Our coaches positive analysis of how well Cross and Blackmon played our last two games means nothing to our couch tater GM/ coaches. Chuckle 

 Ya'll know, but really don't know what ya don't know. You are NOT in the room, not on the field, and haven't a clue what they are being asked to do.

 Cross has reasonable potential to be a really special Colt, he just needs 15 starts to learn what he needs to learn. 

Why hasn’t cross been named as a starter? Why do they need to play preseason games to further evaluate if they think he’s going to be a special Colt? 
 

Why have they consistently called him out in the media over the past 3 years over what he needs to do, and have continued to speak on those issues this summer? Specifically, the lack of communication they are getting at the free safety position. Bradley stated two years ago Cross needs to learn to communicate. Doesn’t feel like he’s learning in that regard… and I’m not in the room, but I can read. And what’s being said is there is still a lack of communication by the safeties not named Julian Blackmon.  I’m not proposing that he be replaced with Simmons, although I don’t think it hurts the team. I’m merely calling for another veteran to come into the room. That’s all. 
 

“he just needs 15 starts to learn.” I don’t see it that way. He’s had ample time to learn and separate himself as a clear starter/potential special player for this team. He’s not done it and now he has an injuring a teammate under his resume. You can continue sitting back and thinking he’s special, I do not. That’s not to say he can’t turn into it. The safety position needs more leadership. That’s my opinion, and I am free to speak it. You DO realize this is a forum to speak opinions and play couch tater GM/discuss “things we know but don’t know”… right?