Pittman wants to explore options

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, w87r said:

There was (27)WRs(28 players), that had over 1,000 yards this year. Plus a few more players knocking on the door. 

 

 

It doesn't mean the same as it used to. Players are trying to approach 2,000 these days(their goals) I think 1300yds is probably where that new upper echelon floor starts (7 above it, 1 few yards short for (8)). Justin Jefferson had 1,000 in 10 games this year. Keenan Allen almost 1,250 in 13 games.

 

 

1100 yards is fine(14th), but 5 slots lower than his targets rank is(9th most targets).

 

 

He also only has 15tds in 62 games.(487 targets)

 

 

I'm fine either way on Pittman. Franchise is probably the best option and if he gets a big offer we decide if we want to keep him or work out a trade with the team that offered him the deal.

 

 

I think I would feel better about a 2yr $36-$46m offer to Mike Evans.

27 doesn’t seem like many when your taking 5 to 6 per team. I get what you’re saying though. Pittman sure hands are just something that would be hard to replace.

[krunk]

18 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Higgins in dynamic. When Chase was injured, he took the over the number # 1 role and blossomed. He has proven he can be a true #1 lining up against elite corners and still being productive. Pittman is a good #2 at best and nothing wrong with that. I just dont think he is worth what he is going to want.  I could be wrong, but I truly believe if the Colts thought that qbing was the reason for Pittman not reaching that elite  status, they would have resigned him by now. He is tall, average speed and I just dont think they are going to invest top money in that type of guy given what Richardson can do. We saw a little of that early with Pierce and Richardson.

Higgins is who I wanted the year both he and Pittman came out

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

27 doesn’t seem like many when your taking 5 to 6 per team. I get what you’re saying though. Pittman sure hands are just something that would be hard to replace.

It’s not even one per team.

[krunk]

I'm fine either way. What I would like to see if Pittman stays is 2 dynamic tight ends who can run. Maybe Woods and Bowers. And somebody better than Pierce. Somebody who can step up if Pittman goes down. Somebody with some speed and RAC ability. We do not and did not have that this year.

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I like Pittman and I'm fine if he stays but I've always said we could do better. My opinion probably isn't popular but I stand on it.

Do better? We need his talent and 2 more like him to be a real contender. Most top contenders have as many as 3 good options at WR (excluding KC). He is our best and a good receiver but is not at the top of WR in the league.

[krunk]

My feeling is Ballard is going or has marked down what the team looked like in that Falcons game when we didn't have Pittman. Nobody stepped up and our receivers got smothered. He will be looking for answers.

[Goatface Killah]

27 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

i don't disagree with you that he has not had great qbing. I just dont see anything elite with Pittman that is going to make me pay 20 mill if that is what he wants. I think even with a healthy Richardson, you get the same type of plays from him. He is not going to dictate defenses and that is the guy i am looking for if i am paying number 1 money.  I truly believe that if Richardson was playing, we would have seen Pierce blossom and Pittman would have still been that good number 2 kind of possession reciever.

If we followed your advice we would never build anything because you want to get rid of everyone all the time. 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, Goatface Killah said:

If we followed your advice we would never build anything because you want to get rid of everyone all the time. 

And then he’d blame Ballard for letting good players go…

[krunk]

1 minute ago, hoosierhawk said:

Do better? We need his talent and 2 more like him to be a real contender. Most top contenders have as many as 3 good options at WR (excluding KC). He is our best and a good receiver but is not at the top of WR in the league.

You just stated he isn't top tier so I didn't say anything out of line. I'm not the only one here who has maintained we need a more explosive athlete at the 1 if we can get that. The Colts in all likelihood are going to pay him and that's cool. I did say we should try to keep him. I'm not calling for his departure. I just won't hammer the Colts if they see a situation they like better involving a young guy or guys in the draft.

[Goatface Killah]

35 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Higgins in dynamic. When Chase was injured, he took the over the number # 1 role and blossomed. He has proven he can be a true #1 lining up against elite corners and still being productive. Pittman is a good #2 at best and nothing wrong with that. I just dont think he is worth what he is going to want.  I could be wrong, but I truly believe if the Colts thought that qbing was the reason for Pittman not reaching that elite  status, they would have resigned him by now. He is tall, average speed and I just dont think they are going to invest top money in that type of guy given what Richardson can do. We saw a little of that early with Pierce and Richardson.

With Joe Burrow at QB. 

 

Pittman would catch 120 passes and have 2x more TDs with Burrow at QB. 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

This EXACTLY the stance that he SHOULD take

Let him test the market

 

Do you really see him getting 24-25M from someone else....  I dont

 

I fully believe that we HAVE to resign Pittman, but one of the measuring tools is yards per catch

 

Pitman sits at 10.9 YPC Career

 

Chase - Bengals - Yards per pass career (YPC)  - 13.9 

Davante Adams - YPC - 12.4

Cooper Cupp - YPC - 12.5

AJ Brown - YPC - 15.7

Amari Cooper - YPC - 14..2

T Hill - YPC - 15.1

Deebo - YPC 14.6

Dj Moore - YPC- 14.2

 

If you stayed with these numbers, and threw 100 passes in a season to T Hill and to Pittman, 

Hill would have 420 more yards per season on the same number of throws

 

Pittman rarely gets YAC, that drives up the others averages

 

I have called Pittman an awesome and excellent WR2, maybe the best in the league.

 

But we STILL need that dynamic, speedy WR1

 

A speedy dependable WR1, will make sure that we wont see the dreaded 8 man box anymore

Stack the box? We will go deep.

Play nickel? We will run down your throat

 

In fact, if someone else gets the attention, Pittman may just do BETTER than he has

Taylor should get more yards as well

 

 

 

 

 

[Colts1324]

 Pittman is a very interesting case. He’s not a top 10 WR, but he’s a borderline #1 who is a clear #1 for our team. Our best bet is to pay him & hope we draft a stud WR who can be the legit #1. 
 

We can’t afford to pay 2 #1’s.

 

 

 

 

[smittywerb]

No surprise, I’d expect him to take this stance.  The salary cap is going up, he’s a great player at a prime position, and doesn’t want to undersell himself.  I respect it.

 

But honestly, I’d even franchise tag him.

[smittywerb]

2 minutes ago, Colts1324 said:

 Pittman is a very interesting case. He’s not a top 10 WR, but he’s a borderline #1 who is a clear #1 for our team. Our best bet is to pay him & hope we draft a stud WR who can be the legit #1. 
 

We can’t afford to pay 2 #1’s.

 

 

 

 

 

That’s another reason why I’d want us to draft a WR.  We need to get a WR1 on a rookie deal.  In the long run, It would be much cheaper to grab a WR1 in the draft and signing a vet CB than to draft a CB and look for a WR1 or even WR2 in free agency. 
 

Good WRs are going for $17million and up vs cornerbacks going for $13million and up.  

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Higgins in dynamic. When Chase was injured, he took the over the number # 1 role and blossomed. He has proven he can be a true #1 lining up against elite corners and still being productive. Pittman is a good #2 at best and nothing wrong with that. I just dont think he is worth what he is going to want.  I could be wrong, but I truly believe if the Colts thought that qbing was the reason for Pittman not reaching that elite  status, they would have resigned him by now. He is tall, average speed and I just dont think they are going to invest top money in that type of guy given what Richardson can do. We saw a little of that early with Pierce and Richardson.

 

There are two differences between Higgins and Pittman. The first is named Joe Burrow, and the second is named Jamarr Chase. 

 

They have the same size profile, and Pittman's pre-draft workout numbers were more dynamic (Pittman worked the Combine; Chase Higgins worked pro day, which is usually more favorable than the Combine). Higgins might have a slightly faster top speed. Neither of these guys are taking the top off the defense.

 

They're basically the same guy. The difference is that Pittman is the #1 guy on his team, and hasn't had good QBing, while Chase Higgins is the #2 guy, and plays with an All World QB. They'll probably command the same kind of contract.

[w87r]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

27 doesn’t seem like many when your taking 5 to 6 per team. I get what you’re saying though. Pittman sure hands are just something that would be hard to replace.

The numbers have only gone up the last 15years, with the increase in passing.

 

2023 - 28(1TE) - 27 WRs

 

 

Last 15 years:

2022 - 22(1TE) - 21 WRs

2021 - 26(3TE) - 23 WRs

2020 - 18(2TE) - 16 WRs

2019 - 29(3TE, 1RB) - 25 WRs

2018 - 21(3TE) - 18 WRs

2017 - 15(2TE) - 13 WRs

2016 - 25(2TE) - 23 WRs

2015 - 26(4TE) - 22 WRs

2014 - 23(2TE) - 21 WRs

2013 - 24(1TE) - 23 WRs

2012 - 20(1TE) - 19 WRs

2011 - 19(2TE) - 17 WRs

2010 - 17(1TE) - 16 WRs

2009 - 23(3TE) - 20 WRs

2008 - 22(1TE) - 21 WRs

 

 

Average: 21.3(total)(33% increase) 19.2 WRs(almost 50% increase). That's a pretty significant increase as a whole.

 

 

Thought it would be fun to look at 15 years prior to that.

1993 - 9(0TE)

[MikeCurtis]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

 

 

They're basically the same guy. The difference is that Pittman is the #1 guy on his team, and hasn't had good QBing, while Chase is the #2 guy, and plays with an All World QB. They'll probably command the same kind of contract.

Yep.....  

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Superman said:

 

There are two differences between Higgins and Pittman. The first is named Joe Burrow, and the second is named Jamarr Chase. 

 

They have the same size profile, and Pittman's pre-draft workout numbers were more dynamic (Pittman worked the Combine; Chase worked pro day, which is usually more favorable than the Combine). Higgins might have a slightly faster top speed. Neither of these guys are taking the top off the defense.

 

They're basically the same guy. The difference is that Pittman is the #1 guy on his team, and hasn't had good QBing, while Chase is the #2 guy, and plays with an All World QB. They'll probably command the same kind of contract.

Say what?  You mean having other star players around you makes you better and without them it’s harder?!  That’s just crazy talk…

 

yes that’s all sarcasm and not directed at you.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Rick Venturi wants to pay Pittman TE money. Sorry Rick it doesn’t work like that.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Rick Venturi wants to pay Pittman TE money. Sorry Rick it doesn’t work like that.

There is a reason he won three games in his career as a head coach…

[DEColtsLover36]

3 hours ago, w87r said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/michael-pittman-jr-ive-loved-my-time-with-colts-but-want-to-explore-options

 

"“I made it this far, so I’ve loved my four years here. But I wouldn’t be doing my due diligence if I didn’t explore every option and find the best fit,” Pittman said, via Stephen Holder of ESPN.com""

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If I asked you what Jamar Chase yards per catch was what would you say without looking it up ? I know it hurt some without burrow.

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

There is a reason he won three games in his career as a head coach…

He really hates Pittman. He drags him every week. I enjoy his jets to the game every week and his wrap ups after the game but he is always dragging Pittman.

[smittywerb]

24 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

With Joe Burrow at QB. 

 

Pittman would catch 120 passes and have 2x more TDs with Burrow at QB. 

 

 

 

would he really?  Put Pittman on that team and his targets go way down.  Pittman is a volume receiver, meaning his production comes from his high amount of targets.

 

 It would depend on how they’d use him and if he’d be able to do what they ask.  I hope if we retain him, we see him go deeper.  Not saying streaks, but would like to see some deep posts and what not.

[MikeCurtis]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If I asked you what Jamar Chase yards per catch was what would you say without looking it up ? I know it hurt some without burrow.

Its on my post....

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, MikeCurtis said:

Its on my post....

Oh I hadn’t looked up at the previous posts. Lol

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

If I asked you what Jamar Chase yards per catch was what would you say without looking it up ? I know it hurt some without burrow.

12.2.  Pittman was 10.6 but has had two years of over 12 ypc when he had Rivers and Wentz as his QB which are probably the best two QBs he’s had in terms of getting the ball down the field.  For comparison sake Chase had 12 ypc last year with Burrow.  Pittman isn’t as bad as some want him to be and would be a lot harder to replace than some think.

[w87r]

3 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Its on my post....

That's career though.

 

 

He averaged 12.2 this season.

 

With 60 more yards 

3 more TDs

 

On 11 less targets

 

He also had 10 more 1st downs on the 11 less targets

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

22 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

This EXACTLY the stance that he SHOULD take

Let him test the market

 

Do you really see him getting 24-25M from someone else....  I dont

 

I fully believe that we HAVE to resign Pittman, but one of the measuring tools is yards per catch

 

Pitman sits at 10.9 YPC Career

 

Chase - Bengals - Yards per pass career (YPC)  - 13.9 

Davante Adams - YPC - 12.4

Cooper Cupp - YPC - 12.5

AJ Brown - YPC - 15.7

Amari Cooper - YPC - 14..2

T Hill - YPC - 15.1

Deebo - YPC 14.6

Dj Moore - YPC- 14.2

 

If you stayed with these numbers, and threw 100 passes in a season to T Hill and to Pittman, 

Hill would have 420 more yards per season on the same number of throws

 

Pittman rarely gets YAC, that drives up the others averages

 

I have called Pittman an awesome and excellent WR2, maybe the best in the league.

 

But we STILL need that dynamic, speedy WR1

 

A speedy dependable WR1, will make sure that we wont see the dreaded 8 man box anymore

Stack the box? We will go deep.

Play nickel? We will run down your throat

 

In fact, if someone else gets the attention, Pittman may just do BETTER than he has

Taylor should get more yards as well

 

 

 

 

 

I think what people are hung up on is they think Pittman will get elite money like AJ. He won’t get that much. He isn’t elite. But his market value is somewhere around 23 million.  No one is paying elite money.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

12.2.  Pittman was 10.6 but has had two years of over 12 ypc when he had Rivers and Wentz as his QB which are probably the best two QBs he’s had in terms of getting the ball down the field.  For comparison sake Chase had 12 ypc last year with Burrow.  Pittman isn’t as bad as some want him to be and would be a lot harder to replace than some think.

I found this years so thanks for the previous years. He isn’t that far off from Chase at all. Especially when you consider all the quarterbacks. It shows he can be a down field threat with the right QB.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I found this years so thanks for the previous years. He isn’t that far off from Chase at all. Especially when you consider all the quarterbacks. It shows he can be a down field threat with the right QB.

Not to mention chase and Pittman are different type of WRs.  Higgins is much more fair comparison in terms of style of WR.

[Goatface Killah]

6 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 

would he really?  Put Pittman on that team and his targets go way down.  Pittman is a volume receiver, meaning his production comes from his high amount of targets.

 

 It would depend on how they’d use him and if he’d be able to do what they ask.  I hope if we retain him, we see him go deeper.  Not saying streaks, but would like to see some deep posts and what not.

Why do all of you think he cant do that? Hes a big receiver who makes contested catches.

 

But when is the last time he had a QB who could place accurate balls downfield?

 

I think he is better than Higgins and would absolutely catch 120 passes in Cincy. 

[GoColts8818]

For some reason Colts fans here are really good at hating their own when it comes time to pay a guy and develop a real case of the grass is greener on the other side real fast.  
 

Did you see the Atlanta game?  Did you see how bad the receivers were in that game?  Are you really ready to live in that world because star WRs rarely get to free agency and even if you draft one they are going to be a rookie and give you limited production.  Look at Downs he just broke Marvin Harrison’s rookie team record for catches in a season with 66.  There is going to be an adjustment period even if some how the Colts got Marvin Jr which they won’t.  
 

Fans get way too worked up about what players get paid.  The number is just a number.  What matters is how the contract is structured and Ballard has been a master of that since he’s been here.  I would anticipate Pittman’s contract once it’s signed, and yes he’s going to get one, to be the same.  

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I found this years so thanks for the previous years. He isn’t that far off from Chase at all. Especially when you consider all the quarterbacks. It shows he can be a down field threat with the right QB.

 

Burrow threw for under 200yds 4 times in 10 games and was far from the Joe Burrow we know as he was injured. He had a little better QB rating than Minshew did.

 

Browning played pretty well when he came in, but Chase only had 1 game with 10+ targets the rest of the year from that point(and no more than 4 in any of the other games) Pittman had 4 10+ targets and only 1 game with less than 5 targets.

 

 

Chase 29tds in 45 games(268 targets)

Pittman 15tds in 62 games(487 targets)

 

 

They are not the same. Not remotely close.

[richard pallo]

I cannot believe people think Pittman might be playing for another team next year.  Many thought JT was gone as well.  He’s a Ballard draft pick who has performed at a high level and now it’s his turn to be extended.  He’s the last player I would be worried about going elsewhere.  Apparently some of us haven’t learned.  Ballard will sign and reward his deserving players.  That’s a fact of life at Colts headquarters.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

For some reason Colts fans here are really good at hating their own when it comes time to pay a guy and develop a real case of the grass is greener on the other side real fast.  

 

For some, it's as simple as the fact that Ballard drafted said player.

[smittywerb]

13 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

Why do all of you think he cant do that? Hes a big receiver who makes contested catches.

 

But when is the last time he had a QB who could place accurate balls downfield?

 

I think he is better than Higgins and would absolutely catch 120 passes in Cincy. 

 

I agree with you on the qb part, that’s why I said I hope we retain him and see what he can do with AR.

 

i don’t agree with you on the replacing Higgins with Pittman and him catching 120 passes part.

 

since chase, Higgins targets have went down.  From 110 to 109 to 79.  Michael Pittman lowest targets since his rookie year is 129.  He was 1 away from 100 last year with 141 targets and 9 over 100 this year with 156 targets.  So for him to catch 120, he’d probably need to be targeted 175 times.
 

That’s why I said it depends on how they use him and ask him what to do because if it’s the Pittman we’ve seen thus far, It’s not happening with chase on other side and Joe mixon rushing. 
 

now the more touchdowns  part I agree with also because with another threat on the other side, Pittman will probably see more one on one opportunities which could mean more 50/50 balls.  

[w87r]

12 minutes ago, Goatface Killah said:

Why do all of you think he cant do that?

Because he wouldn't get 27% of the team targets.

 

Pittman had 156 targets this year, Higgins has never had over 110, pretty much was his average coming into this year.

 

 

So take Pittman numbers and divide his targets by 1/3. That's why he wouldn't get what you are purposing.

[Goatface Killah]

4 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

Burrow threw for under 200yds 4 times in 10 games and was far from the Joe Burrow we know as he was injured. He had a little better QB rating than Minshew did.

 

Browning played pretty well when he came in, but Chase only had 1 game with 10+ targets the rest of the year from that point(and no more than 4 in any of the other games) Pittman had 4 10+ targets and only 1 game with less than 5 targets.

 

 

Chase 29tds in 45 games(268 targets)

Pittman 15tds in 62 games(487 targets)

 

 

They are not the same. Not remotely close.

Bur youre including his TDs from other seasons where Joe Burrow was fantastic and his targets were much higher.

 

The QB play is way more important than you are suggesting and Joe Burrow this year was still way better than anyone Pitt has got to play with. He hasnt had an opportunity to build any type of chemistry with a QB his entire career. 

 

 

1 minute ago, smittywerb said:

 

I agree with you on the qb part, that’s why I said I hope we retain him and see what he can do with AR.

 

i don’t agree with you on the replacing Higgins with Pittman and him catching 120 passes part.

 

since chase, Higgins targets have went down.  From 110 to 109 to 79.  Michael Pittman lowest targets since his rookie year is 129.  He was 1 away from 100 last year with 141 targets and 9 over 100 this year with 156 targets.  So for him to catch 120, he’d probably need to be targeted 175 times.
 

That’s why I said it depends on how they use him and ask him what to do because if it’s the Pittman we’ve seen thus far, It’s not happening with chase on other side and Joe mixon rushing. 
 

now the more touchdowns  part I agree with also because with another threat on the other side, Pittman will probably see more one on one opportunities which could mean more 50/50 balls.  

If Higgins had more targets you would suggest its because he gets open more often.

[smittywerb]

11 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

For some reason Colts fans here are really good at hating their own when it comes time to pay a guy and develop a real case of the grass is greener on the other side real fast.  
 

Did you see the Atlanta game?  Did you see how bad the receivers were in that game?  Are you really ready to live in that world because star WRs rarely get to free agency and even if you draft one they are going to be a rookie and give you limited production.  Look at Downs he just broke Marvin Harrison’s rookie team record for catches in a season with 66.  There is going to be an adjustment period even if some how the Colts got Marvin Jr which they won’t.  
 

Fans get way too worked up about what players get paid.  The number is just a number.  What matters is how the contract is structured and Ballard has been a master of that since he’s been here.  I would anticipate Pittman’s contract once it’s signed, and yes he’s going to get one, to be the same.  

 

Agreed, Pittman has to come back.  It would set us back if we can’t retain him.

[Goatface Killah]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

Because he wouldn't get 27% of the team targets.

 

Pittman had 156 targets this year, Higgins has never had over 110, pretty much was his average coming into this year.

 

 

So take Pittman numbers and divide his targets by 1/3. That's why he wouldn't get what you are purposing.

And if the tables were turned you would suggest thats because Higgins got open more often and was a better route runner lol