Colts vs Texans post game

[GoColts8818]

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

lol. Please re-read what you just wrote.
 

“you can’t act like that’s not why they lost the game.”
 

followed by

 

“I said it wasn’t the only reason they lost.”

 

im not sure it can both man. I’m not sure.  

Yeah them not getting the first down on 4th and one is 100% the ultimate reason they lost because it was the last mistake.  I fully concede it wasn’t their only mistake and not the only reason they lost.  However, as you said it’s not the reason they lost I don’t think anyone is going to agree with you that failing to convert fourth and one on your last position isn’t the reason you lost.  It might not be the only reason you lost but it’s most definitely a reason that can’t be dismissed.

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

Well, I suppose in my head that if I have to get a certain surgery I’d want the absolute best qualified proven doctor performing it. I realize this isn’t life or death but what I’m saying is in this moment when everything is on the line I want the absolute best player available to succeed. I’d call a play using my top players and put it in their hands because they’ve proven to be capable and reliable in real time situations not just practice situations. I think they could have just as easily schemed a play up for one of the top three playmakers as they did for Goodson. But again, just my opinion. 

 

The best qualified doctor, in your case, didn't get to be that without the results in practice. Just playing with ya  

 

Hey, even Wes Welker dropped a critical one that cost the Patriots their 2nd Giants SB and Giselle to give a "my husband can't throw and catch" answer to a loaded question. 

 

Even the best players make mistakes. But if that helps fans sleep better at night with their best players failing than a PS player failing, I won't stand in the way.  

 

At this point, it is water under the bridge. We just want better execution early on in the game so that it doesn't even come down to these plays at the end or refs at the end. Have a good night!!!

[Happy2BeHere]

If your nailing it to one particular play as to why we lost the game then sure the 4th and 1 at the end was it. Because technically that was the end of the plays we had offensively to win the game. But as others have pointed out there are multiple reasons why we lost…for me first and foremost was just the 3rd down conversions…can’t win a game without converting more than that. We needed at least 35% and it’s likely this game has a different outcome in our favor. 
 

 

[GoColts8818]

Just now, ColtStrong2013 said:

play call and execution are not mutually exclusive. Andy Reid has dialed up plenty of perfect play calls- and executed perfectly by his star qb only to be dropped by kadarius toney. They aren’t failed play calls. They are drops by a professional football player. 

If you are talking about if a play worked or not both matter.  You don’t get points or yards for dialing up pretty plays that don’t have proper execution.

[stitches]

20 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Behind every great call is great execution. But the bottom line was, that 4th & 1 play wasn't the main reason we lost. We couldn't control the line of scrimmage in the first half, and pass effectively in the first half to keep it close enough and put pressure on the Texans, overall.

People seem to never get it. Players make plays. Coaches make play calls. Judge them on their own merit. Steichen made a great playcall that ACHIEVED what it set out to do - it put the players in position to execute and win the game. They didn't. To me it's plenty clear where the problem lies here. 

 

We have a problem with talent, not coaching. And that's been the case with most of the losses this year. Minshew is OK for what he is -a backup QB. Minshew is not good enough to lead you in playoff games and expect anything great to happen. 

 

It's a bit harder to parse the receiving corps, because Minshew leaves too much on the table, but in general I feel like we lack dynamic weapons too. We need more/better receiving weapons and we need our franchise QB.... And we need a coach to set the standard... Something he's been doing this year. 

 

Overall I'm optimistic for the future. We need Richardson to pan out, though, because in a division with Stroud turning into the monster he is and Lawrence we will need a game breaking talent of our own at QB, too...

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

No matter how beat up the secondary is not to have  a plan to stop the one player they had was just bad on Bradley’s part.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, cbear said:

So basically, he said the plan was to sneak him open because nobody thought he'd be thrown the ball? But JT would have been covered since he's JT? Got to think about that. Either he's a genius (because the guy was wide open) or he out thought himself. Interesting though. 

My feeling is he out thought himself.  Again, the Texans had to know the Colts would focus on Collins.  Yet what was their first play?  A bomb to him.  You have to trust your star players in big moments.

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, cbear said:

So basically, he said the plan was to sneak him open because nobody thought he'd be thrown the ball? But JT would have been covered since he's JT? Got to think about that. Either he's a genius (because the guy was wide open) or he out thought himself. Interesting though. 

no- he said they called the timeout because they saw them in man coverage. 

 

they called the play- which was Goodson in the flat with Pitt picking. 
 

I said it wouldn’t work Jt. 
 

he didn’t outthink himself. He dialed up a play to get the ball to an open pass catcher and it was dropped. Its not hard

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Something is wrong when the HC likes the play that takes the only guy who has had success off the field.

[Happy2BeHere]

Just now, chad72 said:

 

The best qualified doctor, in your case, didn't get to be that without the results in practice. Just playing with ya  

 

Hey, even Wes Welker dropped a critical one that cost the Patriots their 2nd Giants SB and Giselle to give a "my husband can't throw and catch" answer to a loaded question. 

 

Even the best players make mistakes. But if that helps fans sleep better at night with their best players failing than a PS player failing, I won't stand in the way.  

 

At this point, it is water under the bridge. We just want better execution early on in the game so that it doesn't even come down to these plays at the end or refs at the end. Have a good night!!!

Yup, everyone fails period! No single player is exempt. But if I’m playing blackjack I’m not the one splitting a pair of 10’s when the dealer is

showing a 9+ card. Going to go with the surest method to win.

 

agree wholly on the last part…many poorly executed plays all game long, not just the last offensive play we had. No one wants it to come down to one play with death in the line…ideally we woulda killed them early on  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

My feeling is he out thought himself.  Again, the Texans had to know the Colts would focus on Collins.  Yet what was their first play?  A bomb to him.  You have to trust your star players in big moments.

Bingo. In the end Steichen didn’t 

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

People seem to never get it. Players make plays. Coaches make play calls. Judge them on their own merit. Steichen made a great playcall that ACHIEVED what it set out to do - it put the players in position to execute and win the game. They didn't. To me it's plenty clear where the problem lies here. 

 

We have a problem with talent, not coaching. And that's been the case with most of the losses this year. Minshew is OK for what he is -a backup QB. Minshew is not good enough to lead you in playoff games and expect anything great to happen. 

 

It's a bit harder to parse the receiving corps, because Minshew leaves too much on the table, but in general I feel like we lack dynamic weapons too. We need more/better receiving weapons and we need our franchise QB.... And we need a coach to set the standard... Something he's been doing this year. 

 

Overall I'm optimistic for the future. We need Richardson to pan out, though, because in a division with Stroud turning into the monster he is and Lawrence we will need a game breaking talent of our own at QB, too...

The play call was set out to get a first down so therefor it didn’t achieve what it was set out to do.  Sure it might have looked good but if the execution isn’t there it wasn’t a success. Coaches are also held accountable when their players don’t execute.  I have no way of knowing if it would have worked any better with Taylor maybe the throw would have been just as bad and Taylor would have dropped it too maybe Taylor would have been covered and unable to get it to him but I do know one thing no one would have been going they should have tried Goodson there!  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

The play call was set out to get a first down so therefor it didn’t achieve what it was set out to do.  Sure it might have looked good but if the execution isn’t there it wasn’t a success. Coaches are also held accountable when their players don’t execute.  I have no way of knowing if it would have worked any better with Taylor maybe the throw would have been just as bad and Taylor would have dropped it too maybe Taylor would have been covered and unable to get it to him but I do know one thing no one would have been going they should have tried Goodson there!  

Seems that would have been a good call to Pittman too. Pittman has caught that so many times. But to take Taylor off and to not even disguise a run was so bad.

[cbear]

4 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

no- he said they called the timeout because they saw them in man coverage. 

 

they called the play- which was Goodson in the flat with Pitt picking. 
 

I said it wouldn’t work Jt. 
 

he didn’t outthink himself. He dialed up a play to get the ball to an open pass catcher and it was dropped. Its not hard

Designing a play is just a part of his job though. In that sense, he did a great job. But who to use in certain situations are also part of his job. That is what I question. 

[IinD]

JT seems to be getting off the hook for stepping out of bounds a couple times before the 4th down.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Seems that would have been a good call to Pittman too. Pittman has caught that so many times. But to take Taylor off and to not even disguise a run was so bad.

Yeah my two big issues are taking Taylor out so the Texans don’t even have to think about the run and then the personal with Goodson.  The play design it’s self was good I am not arguing that.  It’s the personal they chose to use.

[ColtStrong2013]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Something is wrong when the HC likes the play that takes the only guy who has had success off the field.

he was stuffed twice on that drive for no gain, and barely got a yard on 3rd and 2. They came out up tight and in man coverage. 
 

I get the concept. I do. I was frustrated afterwards that we didn’t live and die by JT, and even posted on the forum. It might have even been at the beginning of the thread. But then to listen to Steichen and minshew speak on the playcall, and knowing the facts, which is that it was a great call and it was open and it was dropped by a guy they say has executed in practice time and time again… I cannot bring myself to be angry at it. 
 

because for me, at the end of the day as I’ve stated here- we were 1-11 on third down, and sub 150 passing. Minshew wasn’t good enough to win this game. JT made some questionable decisions running out of bounds the last few plays instead of sticking his nose in it and cutting it in. They didn’t make the plays to win. It’s never about one play, especially when it’s drawn up to do exactly what it’s supposed to- get the ball to a pass catcher. It shouldn’t matter who it is. The open guy is the answer. Catch the ball. 

[Happy2BeHere]

Just now, IinD said:

JT seems to be getting off the hook for stepping out of bounds a couple times before the 4th down.

No…several of us here called him out on that.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, IinD said:

JT seems to be getting off the hook for stepping out of bounds a couple times before the 4th down.

Because I don’t think that was a big deal.  They were down to :45 seconds and still had what another 15 to 20 yards to go even if they did get it.  Time was starting to become a little bit of a factor even with Taylor going out of bounds.

[Happy2BeHere]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

Because I don’t think that was a big deal.  They were down to :45 seconds and still had what another 15 to 20 yards to go even if they did get it.  Time was starting to become a little bit of a factor even with Taylor going out of bounds.

I don’t really agree with that assessment. We had all 3 timeouts. If you watch (especially the 2nd time) that he ran out of bounds on the far side of the play had he turned inside instead of jetting outside at the last minute he would have had the first down…that was the most critical part..getting the first down. We had timeouts, we needed first down above all else.

[chad72]

We lost, it is water under the bridge. I know it is a bit raw but let us sleep on it and realize that while folks were predicting a 6 win season for us, Steichen got the most he could out of Minshew. 

 

Nothing is ever going to be perfect, even for SB champs like Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes, like this season is showing. So, there are plenty of positives to focus on moving forward and build upon. 

 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Because I don’t think that was a big deal.  They were down to :45 seconds and still had what another 15 to 20 yards to go even if they did get it.  Time was starting to become a little bit of a factor even with Taylor going out of bounds.

it is a big deal. He was pushed out of bounds on 1st and 10 and 2nd and 8. Had he gotten an extra half yard on those plays, that 4th down doesn’t even happen… 

 

so yes, it does matter.. and it might be why he didn’t get the ball on 4th and 1. 

[IinD]

Just now, Happy2BeHere said:

No…several of us here called him out on that.

The shouts seem loud about why we were using Goodson with the game on the line so I was just playing devil's advocate.

 

Everyone wants their answer to be right in this thread.

 

Blame can be spread on the entire offense today.

 

To me that should've been pitch and catch but they botched it. Minshews crap throw is the reason for me on that 4th down.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Happy2BeHere said:

I don’t really agree with that assessment. We had all 3 timeouts. If you watch (especially the 2nd time) that he ran out of bounds on the far side of the play had he turned inside instead of jetting outside at the last minute he would have had the first down…that was the most critical part..getting the first down. We had timeouts, we needed first down above all else.

Him cutting it back I can listen to because of the yards.  I just don’t think him going out of bounds and stopping the clock was the problem but yeah I can listen to the argument he should have cut back inside for more yards.

[Boondoggle]

Won't be a popular take I realize but this team wasn't going to do anything in the playoffs.  So it's probably for the best.

 

I respect the way they played tonight too.  Boys left it all on the field.

 

Good first season by Steichen but it's a lot harder to contend than it is to fight for a wildcard.  Can he coach a team to a high seed.  I like his chances though I think for that to happen he's going to need a much better roster.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, chad72 said:

We lost, it is water under the bridge. I know it is a bit raw but let us sleep on it and realize that while folks were predicting a 6 win season for us, Steichen got the most he could out of Minshew. 

 

Nothing is ever going to be perfect, even for SB champs like Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes, like this season is showing. So, there are plenty of positives to focus on moving forward and build upon. 

 

 

Like I’ve said before good season bad end game result.  Doesn’t take away from what was a successful season.  Still to come so close to the playoffs stings but there is no question they over achieved what was expected of them and that was before they lost Richardson.

[chad72]

2 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Won't be a popular take I realize but this team wasn't going to do anything in the playoffs.  So it's probably for the best.

 

I respect the way they played tonight too.  Boys left it all on the field.

 

Good first season by Steichen but it's a lot harder to contend than it is to fight for a wildcard.  Can he coach a team to a high seed.  I like his chances though I think for that to happen he's going to need a much better roster.

 

There is only 1 team that is happy at the end of the season. I have seen a lot this season that gives me hope.

 

I do have to share this video though, every time someone brings up failure in sports:

 

 

 

[Happy2BeHere]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Him cutting it back I can listen to because of the yards.  I just don’t think him going out of bounds and stopping the clock was the problem but yeah I can listen to the argument he should have cut back inside for more yards.

You can’t “sorta” agree with me on this forum. I’m sorry but this forum has a 100% everyone is wrong but whomever is currently posting rule. Immediately recant your statement and disagree with me.  
 

Yea we really needed the yards..I was just shocked by it because JT almost ALWAYS fights for the yards, it just seemed really uncharacteristic for him to do it twice right about together.

[chad72]

Just now, Happy2BeHere said:

You can’t “sorta” agree with me on this forum. I’m sorry but this forum has a 100% everyone is wrong but whomever is currently posting rule. Immediately recant your statement and disagree with me.  
 

Yea we really needed the yards..I was just shocked by it because JT almost ALWAYS fights for the yards, it just seemed really uncharacteristic for him to do it twice right about together.

 

Don't go George W on me, saying you are either with me or not with me.  

 

Life isn't black and white unfortunately, too many gray areas. Man, I really need to get to bed. 😁

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, Happy2BeHere said:

Yea we really needed the yards..I was just shocked by it because JT almost ALWAYS fights for the yards, it just seemed really uncharacteristic for him to do it twice right about together.

heel was likely a factor. Might have even influenced the final play call. He touched the ball 9 of the 12 plays to end the game. With an injured foot.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

You can’t “sorta” agree with me on this forum. I’m sorry but this forum has a 100% everyone is wrong but whomever is currently posting rule. Immediately recant your statement and disagree with me.  
 

Yea we really needed the yards..I was just shocked by it because JT almost ALWAYS fights for the yards, it just seemed really uncharacteristic for him to do it twice right about together.

Yeah, I guess when I said I didn’t think it matter I was thinking more about the time aspect of it not the extra yards part of it.  Clearly the latter would have helped big time.  Maybe he couldn’t make the cut with his heel injury?  I don’t know.

[stitches]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

The play call was set out to get a first down so there it didn’t achieve what it was set out to do.

Oh come on. This is nonsense and you know it. Process over result. The goal of the playcall is to put your players at the best possible position to execute via predicting tendencies of the defense, creating conflict for them and giving your guys a chance to make a play. This playcall achieved all that and created a WIDE FREAKING open play.

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 Sure it might have looked good but if the execution isn’t there it wasn’t a success.

The play wasn't a success. That's obvious. The playcall was a resounding success. You don't need Taylor or, hell, even McCafrey or Kamara to make that play. This play should be makable for any pair of college QB-RB duo. The playcall is THAT good. BTW that's not just on Goodson. Minshew's throw was the bigger problem IMO. There's just so much you can do as a coach. After some point it's up to the players to execute.

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Coaches are also held accountable when their players don’t execute.  I have no way of knowing if it would have worked any better with Taylor maybe the throw would have been just as bad and Taylor would have dropped it too maybe Taylor would have been covered and unable to get it to him but I do know one thing no one would have been going they should have tried Goodson there!  

Coaches should be held accountable too, buy IMO here you are misattributing the blame. I would blame him if they hadn't practiced that and he just decided " you know what, why don't we just sneak Goodson out and I bet he will make it", but by the way the play went this seemed like a well rehearsed play and it went exactly like it should have... up until the throw and catch part.

[ColtStrong2013]

3 minutes ago, stitches said:

Coaches should be held accountable too, buy IMO here you are misattributing the blame. I would blame him if they hadn't practiced that and he just decided " you know what, why don't we just sneak Goodson out and I bet he will make it", but by the way the play went this seemed like a well rehearsed play and it went exactly like it should have... up until the throw and catch part

this is my feeling. After hearing the presser, it was obvious this was a designed play that had been practiced often. Not to JT, not to moss, not to anyone else, but to “our pass catching back, Goodson.” 
 

Minshew stated they made that throw what seemed like a million times. So the playcall and the personnel and the execution is practice all pointed towards that play, and it didn’t translate to the game field. Unfortunate? Yes. Emotional? Very. Bad play call? Absolutely not. 

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

Oh come on. This is nonsense and you know it. Process over result. The goal of the playcall is to put your players at the best possible position to execute via predicting tendencies of the defense, creating conflict for them and giving your guys a chance to make a play. This playcall achieved all that and created a WIDE FREAKING open play.

no it’s not nonsense.  You don’t get yards or points for a pretty play design.  If the execution wasn’t there the play didn’t achieve what it was set out to do.  Pretending it some how did is just a spin job I am not buying.  The play failed even if it was a good design.  

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

The play wasn't a success. That's obvious. The playcall was a resounding success. You don't need Taylor or, hell, even McCafrey or Kamara to make that play. This play should be makable for any pair of college QB-RB duo. The playcall is THAT good. BTW that's not just on Goodson. Minshew's throw was the bigger problem IMO. There's just so much you can do as a coach. After some point it's up to the players to execute.

like I said my issue was with the personal not the play design.  Choosing to use Goodson was a coach decision and trusting the season in the hands of a practice squad level player who hadn’t played all night wasnt the best decision IMO.

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

Coaches should be held accountable too, buy IMO here you are misattributing the blame. I would blame him if they hadn't practiced that and he just decided " you know what, why don't we just sneak Goodson out and I bet he will make it", but by the way the play went this seemed like a well rehearsed play and it went exactly like it should have... up until the throw and catch part.

Yeah but that last part is what matters.  If it doesn’t succeed nothing else matters.  Again, maybe it would have failed just as bad with Taylor maybe Taylor catches it and goes all the way to the house, we will never know maybe you keep Taylor in there and use him as decoy and throw the same type of pass to Downs or Pittman sneaking inside it’s a TD and it’s the greatest play ever called.  I just don’t like using Goodson there even if he’s the receiving back.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

Won't be a popular take I realize but this team wasn't going to do anything in the playoffs.  So it's probably for the best.

 

I respect the way they played tonight too.  Boys left it all on the field.

 

Good first season by Steichen but it's a lot harder to contend than it is to fight for a wildcard.  Can he coach a team to a high seed.  I like his chances though I think for that to happen he's going to need a much better roster.

It’s going to be a big offseason for Ballard. Texans are going to be even bigger. You have jags up contend right. Texans should nor have a tougher schedule thrn the colts and will get even harder if jags lose tomorrow. There is zero excusde this off season. Going to have to makes decision quickly on Gus. Then all of our free agents.

 

First priority and it’s clear as day is this defense. Then maybe adding one more play maker to the offense. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Look how Open Pittman is here.

 

 

[Happy2BeHere]

Well, regardless of everyone’s differing opinions I think we can all find principled compromise together in the fact that we are all Colts or football fans here and to have such a passion for your team and to be emotionally invested game after game win or lose and to be lucky enough to celebrate or commiserate on here together is pretty fortunate.

 

Glad to engage with you all, and while I may personally not always agree with everyone’s opinion I do respect it.

 

 

[coming on strong]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Look how Open Pittman is here.

 

 

minshew has tunnel vision if his first read isnt there he gets happy feet and looks to bail from a clean pocket .

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, coming on strong said:

minshew has tunnel vision if his first read isnt there he gets happy feet and looks to bail from a clean pocket .

What do you expect with a backup QB. We know who he is. Doesn’t do any good to complain 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

As much as Minshew has led us to this point. We have to evaluate the backup spot. Not throwing downfield killed us all year. The only cautionary tale is it can get worse at backup QB so they have to be careful.