ESPN’s Matt Miller says Colts Have Decided on QB

[Boondoggle]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Levis ran an NFL offense in his first year, his better year if the two.   He used NFL verbiage, NFL concepts.   It’s the system used by a guy who was an NFL OC for the Rams.    
 

Not sure how you got to a week before the draft without knowing this?    Something tells me you do know this but are still not convinced.    

I think you are quoting the wrong poster.

[NewColtsFan]

35 minutes ago, Boondoggle said:

I think you are quoting the wrong poster.

I was trying to quote CR91.    Did I miss that?     Sorry about that.  

[Boondoggle]

Here's a fine article that covers a lot of this stuff from the perspective of Liam Coen, his OC of two years ago who was with the Rams last year.

 

https://theathletic.com/4409453/2023/04/14/will-levis-nfl-draft-liam-coen/

[lollygagger8]

Apr 27 feels like it's still months away! 

[Crunked]

On 4/15/2023 at 6:17 PM, NewColtsFan said:

The Miller statement comes from Miller.   He does NOT say the Colts have decided.   He says between AR and WL, that the Colts, as of now,  favor Levis because he will be more advanced, more Pro Ready than AR in their first year.  
 

But it was stated (to me,  at least) as if a final decision has not been made.   I think the SB writer misinterpreted or misunderstood Miller’s comment. 

We all might have to get used to saying, "The Colts put their Levis on, one cannon arm at a time" lol 

[CR91]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I was trying to quote CR91.    Did I miss that?     Sorry about that.  

 

I did know that. When did I say I didn't 

[Patrick Miller]

11 hours ago, Peter Nova said:

I don't see it and I doubt AR goes in the top 10. The athletic measures are great and all, but everything else about him spells raw project with bust potential.  

Yeah I agree with you that he SHOULDNT go in the top ten but the hype has been built up so much I think he will.

[Jason_]

12 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I did know that. When did I say I didn't 

 

when you kept repeatedly asking Boondoggle what makes Levis more pro ready, even though Boondoggle had already spelled it out for you in 2 separate posts 

[CR91]

4 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

when you kept repeatedly asking Boondoggle what makes Levis more pro ready, even though Boondoggle had already spelled it out for you in 2 separate posts 

 

I asked him what did he accomplish in this pro offense 

[Jason_]

On 4/19/2023 at 3:42 PM, CR91 said:

 

Far more ahead in terms of what? What did Levis accomplish running the rams and 49ers offense because as far as I'm concerned it was the most simplistic approach to either offense. Go and watch the tape, the majority of his throws are slants, dump offs, and short out routes that he missed. Also don't put Steichen's offense in one hole when he took what a lot of people said was an impossible project in Jalen Hurts and turned him into the highest paid QB in the league. You wanna believe some random source, go ahead.

 

^this was after Boondoggle's first multiparagraph explanation

 

17 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

And what has he accomplished? You didn't answer that. What about Levis's game makes him more pro-ready? 

 

^this was after Boondoggle's second multiparagraph explanation

 

17 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

He's in a pro system. I get that. What has he accomplished? What makes his game better then AR

 

and again, you asked the same thing for the third time.  Yes, I get that you also asked about his accomplishments, but you asked at least 3 times "what makes him better/more pro-ready?".  That's why you got multiple answers from multiple posters.

 

Now I will grant you, your question of "what did he accomplish" did not get answered, but that's largely because you seem to care about that more than most.  Gms, scouts and coaches are going to look more at the player individually than win/loss records or accomplishments because win/loss records are a team accomplishment, not an individual one despite what most media talking heads would have you believe.  

 

However, with that said, since 1915 UK has only won 10 or more games 4 times.  One of those 4 times was with Levis.

[CR91]

Just now, J@son said:

 

^this was after Boondoggle's first multiparagraph explanation

 

 

^this was after Boondoggle's second multiparagraph explanation

 

 

and again, you asked the same thing for the third time.  Yes, I get that you also asked about his accomplishments, but you asked at least 3 times "what makes him better/more pro-ready?".  That's why you got multiple answers from multiple posters.

 

Now I will grant you, your question of "what did he accomplish" did not get answered, but that's largely because you seem to care about that more than most.  Gms, scouts and coaches are going to look more at the player individually than win/loss records or accomplishments because win/loss records are a team accomplishment, not an individual one despite what most media talking heads would have you believe.  

 

However, with that said, since 1915 UK has only won 10 or more games 4 times.  One of those 4 times was with Levis.

 

You realize I'm asking those questions knowing already he's been in a pro style offense. That's basically everyone's selling point of the guy. That doesn't mean anything if he doesn't actually play well in that offense hence why I asked what has he accomplished 

[Jason_]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

You realize I'm asking those questions knowing already he's been in a pro style offense. That's basically everyone's selling point of the guy. That doesn't mean anything if he doesn't actually play well in that offense hence why I asked what has he accomplished 

 

I was simply answering the question below.  also, the bolded is simply not accurate.  he made mistakes...he wasn't perfect by any means (though it's also important to put those mistakes into context which you seem to be incapable or unwilling to do), sure, but if he didn't play well there's no way UK wins 10 games in '21.  

 

39 minutes ago, CR91 said:

did know that. When did I say I didn't 

 

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

I was simply answering the question below.  also, the bolded is simply not accurate.  he made mistakes...he wasn't perfect by any means (though it's also important to put those mistakes into context which you seem to be incapable or unwilling to do), sure, but if he didn't play well there's no way UK wins 10 games in '21.  

 

 

 

So we're gonna draft a guy 4th overall for one average year? You guys act like that one season Levis had was the greatest year in the history of college football.

[ADnum1]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:54 PM, Boondoggle said:

You can infer a great deal just by using common sense and looking at the players in question.  That's outside of any inside information that may be out there, which, who knows if any of that is true.

 

But to consider Richardson as QB means you must be willing to be a run-first offense at the QB position.  It is either that or you take him and redshirt him for a year or two while he learns.  What nobody knows is to what extent he'll do the work to be great, which is true with all these players and why it's so hard to draft well.  Maybe he'll do the work.  And it's not some cliche either, but a real mental and life load on these QBs to be able to do the work.  The game has to be a priority for them over a long duration and many of them simply do not have the required dedication nor the right mix of abilities to arrive where they need to down the road.

 

Levis ran the Rams offense two years ago and the 9ers flavors moreso the past year with the OC change he dealt with.  He represents a guy running the same offense the Colts run, in terms of the jargon and much of the scheme.  The Rams offshoot is different from that of the Eagles but where WCOs will differ is in their run game strategy and protections.  Run game strategy follows the OCs and they have distinct flavors, like with Shanahan there is a lead blocker, with McVay there are wideouts being used out of motion to seal the hole, etc.

 

So if you imagine Irsay needing to choose what offense he wants to sit through on gameday, the options being a super basic read-option attack that focuses on Richardson being a runner to move the chains, or running the WCO he hired Steichen to run with Levis, which do you think he will pick.  You can say nobody knows and to some extent that is true.  But I guarantee you that Irsay is not going to want to endure a read-option and/or see his QB redshirted for a year or two.

 

Levis is far ahead of Richardson.  And all the knocks on Levis you hear in the media about his mistakes were brought on while he was running a pro offense with poor protections and after his OC was stolen away by an NFL team.  Chalk it all up and Levis has probably always been ahead for the Colts in terms of options at 4 overall.

 

Now if they don't like Levis because he's dumb as evidenced by drinking mayonnaise in his coffee or eating bananas with their skin or he's a try-hard in the locker room or whatever other reason, then they will move down and go with another QB option.  There are plenty in this draft and we do know which ones fit the offense and direction of the scheme.  But what happens if Levis starts quickly and helps some other QBless team.  Well in that scenario Ballard is on the street and rightly so.  His job is on the line here with this decision.

Good post and its factually sound.  I enjoyed reading it.  You are correct Levis is probably ahead because he ran a prostyle WC offense so he will be ready to start day one.  If Richardson started it would be RPO with some WC concepts loosely sprinkled in.

 

But what you don't address is UPSIDE.  Many times GM's whether in the NFL, MLB, or NBA draft players not on what they are but on what they WILL BE in the near future.

 

This is why you see MLB Gm's draft some kid from the dominican republic hoping they become the next manny machado or NBA GM's draft a european player like Luka Doncic who American's have never heard of but has incredible potential.

 

The danger to Levis for Colts fans is not that he will bust, I don't believe that he will.  The real danger is that he has hit his ceiling and will not get much better and pans out as a 15-20th ranked QB.  What if that happens ?  What if he's ready to start day one but doesn't get much better ?  Then Colts will have 5 years of mediocre QB and after that, Colts fans are left with a nothing burger. At least if he busted, Colts could make a move and move on to the next QB.  A 15-20 ranked QB does not put us in the hunt of a very tough AFC with Mahommes, Burrow, Allen and even Lawrence.

 

Thats why I believe AR should be the pick, simply because of his upside.  I don't think he will be ready to start day one but who cares.  If he hits his potential he could be the wild card that has the Colts competing with the big 3 teams in the AFC.

 

I believe its worth a shot.  The Colts should swing for the fences on this one.

 

As far as offenses, I think the offense will look very similar to what the eagles are running with Hurts and that is fine by me.

[Jason_]

7 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

So we're gonna draft a guy 4th overall for one average year? You guys act like that one season Levis had was the greatest year in the history of college football.

 

 

lol...no...no we're not.  we're countering your argument that he did nothing.  but this is classic "if you don't agree with me then you obviously believe the extreme opposite" nonsense that has plagued society in recent years

[CR91]

24 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

 

lol...no...no we're not.  we're countering your argument that he did nothing.  but this is classic "if you don't agree with me then you obviously believe the extreme opposite" nonsense that has plagued society in recent years

 

Ok. Give me a legitimate reason why Levis is worth taking 4th overall 

[Jason_]

6 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Ok. Give me a legitimate reason why Levis is worth taking 4th overall 

 

no.  that's been done over and over by multiple people here.  you read what you want to read and ignore the rest.  

 

[CR91]

5 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

no.  that's been done over and over by multiple people here.  you read what you want to read and ignore the rest.  

 

 

I didn't know being in a pro offense is all it takes to be a top 4 pick. 

[Jason_]

 

oops....double post

[Jason_]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

I didn't know being in a pro offense is all it takes to be a top 4 pick. 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Crunked said:

We all might have to get used to saying, "The Colts put their Levis on, one cannon arm at a time" lol 

Bravo!    Well done!  
 

A tip of the hat to you!!    
 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

I did know that. When did I say I didn't 

Never mind.   This won’t end well. 

[CR91]

6 hours ago, Crunked said:

We all might have to get used to saying, "The Colts put their Levis on, one cannon arm at a time" lol 

 

More like one dump off at a time

[NewColtsFan]

32 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

More like one dump off at a time

If only you had a dollar for every shot you’ve taken at Levis you’d be rich enough to be set for life.   

[Boondoggle]

4 hours ago, PRnum1 said:

The danger to Levis for Colts fans is not that he will bust, I don't believe that he will.  The real danger is that he has hit his ceiling and will not get much better and pans out as a 15-20th ranked QB.  What if that happens ?  What if he's ready to start day one but doesn't get much better ?

If you read the Athletic article that is basically an interview with Liam Coen he talks about Levis being a guy who started playing QB in earnest for only the past couple years.  He then goes on to discuss Levis' upside along with projections and expectations for his future.  It's a good read: https://theathletic.com/4409453/2023/04/14/will-levis-nfl-draft-liam-coen/

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

If only you had a dollar for every shot you’ve taken at Levis you’d be rich enough to be set for life.   

You forgot the word - “cheap.”

[CR91]

2 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

You forgot the word - “cheap.”

 

Give me something inaccurate I've said 

[Dingus McGirt]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

Give me something inaccurate I've said 

“More like one dump off at a time.”

 

I didn’t say “inaccurate”  - I said “cheap.”  He’s an easy target for your constant deluge of funny (hateful) little jabs…because you “have a keyboard and you’re gonna show it off.”  
     I sort of hope the team drafts whomever you really want to see.  Maybe that will end your negativity - until you find some other easy target to vent on/rant about.  Either way…sigh.

[CR91]

6 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

“More like one dump off at a time.”

 

I didn’t say “inaccurate”  - I said “cheap.”  He’s an easy target for your constant deluge of funny (hateful) little jabs…because you “have a keyboard and you’re gonna show it off.”  
     I sort of hope the team drafts whomever you really want to see.  Maybe that will end your negativity - until you find some other easy target to vent on/rant about.  Either way…sigh.

 

Are you done? Because that was weak. I don't like Levis. Fine that's not news to anyone here, but go back and actually read my posts and you'll see I have clearly presented my point of the argument against him, but you want to focus on my so called "jab" at him. He started it with his bravado about his cannon arm when the tape shows he goes short more then him showing off his so called big arm.

[Dingus McGirt]

1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

Are you done? Because that was weak. I don't like Levis. Fine that's not news to anyone here, but go back and actually read my posts and you'll I have clearly presented my point of the argument against, but you want to focus on is my so called "jab" at his so called bravado about his cannon arm when the tape shows he goes short more then him showing off his big arm as he put it.

Well, actually it’s your MANY jabs that grow tiresome.  I have been hopeful Levis would be the Colt’s selection, but knowing that would just give you more grist for your mill - maybe not.

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Well, actually it’s your MANY jabs that grow tiresome.  I have been hopeful Levis would be the Colt’s selection, but knowing that would just give you more grist for your mill - maybe not.

 

If the colts draft Levis (just typing that hurts), I will go through all five stages of grief. With a lot of anger before I get to acceptance.

[Dingus McGirt]

2 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

If the colts draft Levis (just typing that hurts), I will go through all five stages of grief. With a lot of anger before I get to acceptance.

That would be a sight for us all to see!

[Boondoggle]

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

The Colts and Panthers have probably decided who they want on Draft night.

I however, am UNDECIDED what foods, snacks, beverages I want on Draft night. 

But I do know this, I am NOT intermittently fasting Draft day. 

[Stephen]

39 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

If the colts draft Levis (just typing that hurts), I will go through all five stages of grief. With a lot of anger before I get to acceptance.

Ill be fine with whoever. As long as they dont go the whole draft and not take one

[CR91]

1 hour ago, CR91 said:

 

If the colts draft Levis (just typing that hurts), I will go through all five stages of grief. With a lot of anger before I get to acceptance.

 

This is what you did to me @VikingsFanInChennai 

 

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, CR91 said:

 

Ok. Give me a legitimate reason why Levis is worth taking 4th overall 

This isn't that hard, and a lot of it applies to Stroud as well.

 

Size:  6'4 230.  Large enough to see all of the field and stand in the pocket to take hits while throwing the ball down the field or running for FDs..

Arm: Strong enough to make all of the NFL throws, many from out of the pocket/play structure.  It allows the playcaller to open up the playbook, or at least to not drastically limit the playbook because of the QBs arm limitations.

Athletics:  Ability to escape and make first downs with his legs.  QB sneak with power.  Again, the playcaller has all plays in the playbook at his disposal, including QB run first options...to throwing a deep out pattern.

Experience:  Two year starter who can run an NFL huddle and offense from day 1 (not sure its ideal to have him do it, but it would not be because he could not do it reasonably well)

Accuracy:  Completion percentage in the mid 60%s without the aid of exceptional WRs that get open more often than most or a gimmicky offense.  His percentage is more a reflection of his abilities than other QBs percentages that may have benefited from teammates or playcalling.

Decision making:  Experience shows he has at least faced a constant need to make decisions in the passing game and go through progressions under pressure, as opposed to a QB that might have a one read and run type of an offense.  All rookies tend to need coaching and experience at the NFL level to sort out bad decision making.

Intelligence:  College GPA in a "real" major and his ability to answer questions behind a podium suggest he has what it takes upstairs to comprehend NFL passing concepts.

Desire:  Appears to really like the game of football, which implies he will have a high level of self-motivation.  I read his ego as the kind of player who wants to be able to cash the checks his mouth writes.  Annoying if he was your next-door neighbor, but good for an NFL QB, IMO

 

None of this means he will be a success, and that he doesn't need work.  But draft choices are PROSPECTS, and there isn't anything about him that says he isn't a blue chip prospect.  In fact, he could very well go pick #1 to CAR especially since CAR seems to not be linked to him at all (concealing the interest)

 

 

[CR91]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

This isn't that hard, and most of it applies to Stroud as well.

 

Size:  6'4 230.  Large enough to see all of the field and stand in the pocket to take hits while throwing the ball down the field.

Arm: Strong enough to make all of the NFL throws, many from out of the pocket.  It allows the playcaller to open up the playbook, or at least to not drastically limit the playbook because of the QBs arm limitations.

Athletics:  Ability to escape and make first downs with his legs.  QB sneak with power.  Again, the playcaller has all plays in the playbook at his disposal, including QB run first options...to throwing a deep out pattern.

Experience:  Two year starter who can run an NFL huddle and offense from day 1 (not sure its ideal to have him do it, but it would not be because he could not do it reasonably well)

Accuracy:  Completion percentage in the mid 60%s without the aid of exceptional WRs that get open more often than most or a gimmicky offense.  His percentage is more a reflection of his abilities than other QBs percentages that may have benefited from teammates or playcalling.

Decision making:  Experience shows he has at least faced a constant need to make decisions in the passing game and go through progressions under pressure, as opposed to a QB that might have a one read and run type of an offense.  All rookies tend to need coaching and experience at the NFL level to sort out bad decision making.

Intelligence:  College GPA in a "real" major and his ability to answer questions behind a podium suggest he has what it takes upstairs to comprehend NFL passing concepts.

Desire:  Appears to really like the game of football, which implies he will have a high level of self-motivation.  I read his ego as the kind of player who wants to be able to cash the checks his mouth writes.  Annoying if he was your next-door neighbor, but good for an NFL QB, IMO

 

None of this means he will be a success, and that he doesn't need work.  But draft choices are PROSPECTS, and there isn't anything about him that says he isn't a blue chip prospect.  In fact, he could very well go pick #1 to CAR especially since CAR seems to not be linked to him at all (concealing the interest)

 

 

 

You want me to debunk all this because I can, but then everyone will just say I'm nitpicking and I'm a hater. Look I'm not gonna change anyone's mind and no one is changing mine so I think it's best we leave it at that. I'm tired of this and thankfully it's over in 6 days

[DougDew]

Just now, CR91 said:

 

You want me to debunk all this because I can, but then everyone will just say I'm nitpicking and I'm a hater. Look I'm not gonna change anyone's mind and no one is changing mine so I think it's best we leave it at that. I'm tired of this and thankfully it's over in 6 days

How can you debunk size, arm talent, athletics...which is about 60% of what coaches want in a prospect to mold..and two years starters experience in making NFL types of decisions under pressure.  Those are facts.

 

You can debate the quality of decisions made under what circumstances, but at least being forced to make them provides a gauge to judge what has to be coached, as opposed to a QB who has played under a HC who protected him from having to make decisions.

 

BTW, I'm fine with whomever the Colts choose.  For all I know, HOU takes Levis and he turns out to be the next David Carr or Carson Wentz, but as a prospect, he checks all of the boxes.   All of them.

[CR91]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

How can you debunk size, arm talent, athletics...which is about 60% of what coaches want in a prospect to mold..and two years starters experience in making NFL types of decisions under pressure.  Those are facts.

 

You can debate the quality of decisions made under what circumstances, but at least being forced to make them provides a gauge to judge what has to be coached, as opposed to a QB who has played under a HC who protected him from having to make decisions.

 

BTW, I'm fine with whomever the Colts choose.  For all I know, HOU takes Levis and he turns out to be the next David Carr or Carson Wentz, but as a prospect, he checks all of the boxes.   All of them.

 

Oh God ok. Here we go

 

Size - basically irrelevant to play QB in today's NFL. You have plenty of QBs who are 6 2 or shorter that start and play winning football.

 

Arm strength- completely overrated and one of the last attributes teams look for in a QB.

 

Athletics - basically a prerequisite to play QB as everyone can move nowadays. This isn't a statue in the pocket era anymore. Doesn't make him special.

 

Experience - Playing in a pro style offense means nothing if you struggled to play in it.

 

Accuracy - meaningless when the majority of his throws were short. 

 

Decision making - how hard is it to get to the RB?

 

Intelligence - Cool. He's smart. He also ate a banana with the peel on.

 

Desire - Don't know the guy personally to know how much he loves football.