Quenton Nelson Poll

[EastStreet]

Poll

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/guard/

[Four2itus]

I care more about the guaranteed. 

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

I care more about the guaranteed. 

 

Yup, little (guaranteed).... 

 

16.5M current highest, I'd prefer 17-20M... 

Not worried though... lol... 

[Four2itus]

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

Yup, little (guaranteed).... 

 

16.5M current highest, I'd prefer 17-20M... 

Not worried though... lol... 

Ive got a prediction back there somewhere....I think it was 5/195ish/55% guaranteed. 

[EastStreet]

30 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Ive got a prediction back there somewhere....I think it was 5/195ish/55% guaranteed. 

195/5 = 39?

 

Or 95/5 = 19  

[Four2itus]

35 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

195/5 = 39?

 

Or 95/5 = 19  

Five years, $95 million with $52.25 million guaranteed (my prediction on June 24th)

 

 

[EastStreet]

Good see polls "not worried".... 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I voted not worried, and between 17-19.9 Mill. I can see a 5 year deal for 95 Mill = 19 mill a year with 50% of it being guaranteed.

[DaColts85]

5yr - 87.5mil (17.5/yr) with 48.125 guaranteed. Highest paid G but he does not need LT money. New cap will probably push my number higher though. 

[Nickster]

I'd like to see how the dude's back holds up before the club throws a bunch of guaranteed money at him.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I'd like to see how the dude's back holds up before the club throws a bunch of guaranteed money at him.  

That is why I said only 50% guaranteed, but I do believe he gets 19 Mill a year over either 4 or 5 years. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Irsay just needs to pony up the cash for the guaranteed money. This is where the cash over cap comes in.

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Irsay just needs to pony up the cash for the guaranteed money. This is where the cash over cap comes in.

I have a feeling Irsay’s willingness to pay isn’t the issue with this contract not being done yet.  

[NewColtsFan]

I think the biggest holdup is the guaranteed money.  I’m guessing he wants more than Leonard who got $52.5.    So I’m guessing Q wants 55-60? 
 

As it stands now, Q is almost being punished. Leonard and Smith got their money last year because as second round picks they got shorter rookie deals.  They got their second contract after their 3rd year.    Nelson is now being offered his second contract after his 4th year.   And he’s clearly not getting the numbers he expected either in base salary or guaranteed money or both.  
 

I picked worried because I wasn’t expecting this negotiation to go this badly.  Ballard has paid market value to his top picks.   So either he’s not in this case, or Nelson is asking for more than we’re willing to pay.  At this late date, it’s a bad sign. 
 

Still time to get a deal done BEFORE week one,  but the clock is ticking….. 

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Irsay just needs to pony up the cash for the guaranteed money. This is where the cash over cap comes in.

I think cash over carry comes in with a big signing bonus, and not the total guaranteed.   Signing bonus is up front money.  Cash right now.   That’s harder for smaller market teams like the Colts. 
 

Guaranteed money on a 5 year deal is money guaranteed over years 1, 2 and 3 of the contract.  That’s typically what the Colts prefer to do.   Less upfront, more spread across multiple years. 

[DougDew]

Not worried and don't care.  I don't care because elite Gs are not keys to winning.  I care about QBs, skilled positions, and positions more directly related to the passing game on offense and defense.  Positions where a player has to play on his talent island more so than interior OL.

 

When we win, it will be because of that.   I don't care if Nelson stays or walks.  Not worried either way.

 

The only way that I would care about Nelson and his contract is if it was so high as to take away from acquiring and retaining winning type of assets in more important positions.  But there are ways to minimize that impact, by staggering contracts or getting pro bowl type of play from players still on rookie contracts.  

[Moosejawcolt]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the biggest holdup is the guaranteed money.  I’m guessing he wants more than Leonard who got $52.5.    So I’m guessing Q wants 55-60? 
 

As it stands now, Q is almost being punished. Leonard and Smith got their money last year because as second round picks they got shorter rookie deals.  They got their second contract after their 3rd year.    Nelson is now being offered his second contract after his 4th year.   And he’s clearly not getting the numbers he expected either in base salary or guaranteed money or both.  
 

I picked worried because I wasn’t expecting this negotiation to go this badly.  Ballard has paid market value to his top picks.   So either he’s not in this case, or Nelson is asking for more than we’re willing to pay.  At this late date, it’s a bad sign. 
 

Still time to get a deal done BEFORE week one,  but the clock 

Nelson may think they r low balling but I wouldn't gp above 17.5. 20mill is ludicrous. This team has no LT

[chad72]

36 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is why I said only 50% guaranteed, but I do believe he gets 19 Mill a year over either 4 or 5 years. 

 

I'd expect 5 years $100 mil. at least, to be honest, with $60 mil. of it guaranteed, to clinch the deal. Might end up back loading it to 2024-2026 so that we have a good chance of marrying it with a rookie QB contract, IMO (drafted most likely in 2023 or 2024).

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Not worried and don't care.  I don't care because elite Gs are not keys to winning.  I care about QBs, skilled positions, and positions more directly related to the passing game on offense and defense.  Positions where a player has to play on his talent island more so than interior OL.

 

When we win, it will be because of that.   

 

The only way that I would care about Nelson and his contract is if it was so high as to take away from acquiring and retaining winning type of assets in more important positions.  But there are ways to minimize that impact, by staggering contracts or getting pro bowl type of play from players still on rookie contracts.  

Yes when the boards main concern is signing a guard it really shows the poor drafting at DE, WR, LT,  and corner.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Yes when the boards main concern is signing a guard it really shows the poor drafting at DE, WR, LT,  and corner.

Well, not getting into the same stuff too much.  Every thread can turn into the same thing.  Our high picks have been C, FS, G, ILB, RB, a Corner with a bad RAS who isn't here anymore.   Almost all of them higher than our highest WR, TE, or LT.  

 

 Once we get talent and performance in the areas that matter, we will win more and with higher quality.

 

I'm hoping for good things this year.

[Jason_]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I care about QBs, skilled positions, and positions more directly related to the passing game on offense and defense. 

 

Funny because I've heard many, many times that a QBs worst enemy is pressure up the middle.  The OG is an integral part of trying to prevent that pressure up the middle and therefore is directly related to the passing game. 

 

 

Keep pounding that drum though 

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

Funny because I've heard many, many times that a QBs worst enemy is pressure up the middle.  The OG is an integral part of trying to prevent that pressure up the middle and therefore is directly related to the passing game. 

 

 

Keep pounding that drum though 

Via double teams usually, enhanced by communication and technique; and via RBs stepping up to catch a blitzer.  The bigger DT usually isn't much of a threat before the QB gets rid of the ball.

 

Keep ignoring the fundamentals of football though....

[NewColtsFan]

9 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Nelson may think they r low balling but I wouldn't gp above 17.5. 20mill is ludicrous. This team has no LT

Our LT situation has nothing to do with Nelson.   If Castanzo was healthy and still playing he’d be getting paid LT money.   He was making $16.5 when he retired.   Nelson’s deal is separate as it should be.  
 

You’ve connected dots that are not related. 

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Our LT situation has nothing to do with Nelson.   If Castanzo was healthy and still playing he’d be getting paid LT money.   He was making $16.5 when he retired.   Nelson’s deal is separate as it should be.  
 

You’ve connected dots that are not related. 

What are you trying to say here?

 

How can spending money on one individual player not be connected with how much of a remaining budget you can spend on the other starting 21?

 

Do you have a household budget?

 

Because all positions in the NFL are connected to each other and are governed by a budget, that connection is the primary reason veteran players get cut.

[Nickster]

41 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Our LT situation has nothing to do with Nelson.   If Castanzo was healthy and still playing he’d be getting paid LT money.   He was making $16.5 when he retired.   Nelson’s deal is separate as it should be.  
 

You’ve connected dots that are not related. 

Bad logic. 

 

AC's contract was set to expire prior to this season.  Before Q's contract is due.

 

Maybe there are some dots that are connected and Nelson and the LT situation are related. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

53 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think cash over carry comes in with a big signing bonus, and not the total guaranteed.   Signing bonus is up front money.  Cash right now.   That’s harder for smaller market teams like the Colts. 
 

Guaranteed money on a 5 year deal is money guaranteed over years 1, 2 and 3 of the contract.  That’s typically what the Colts prefer to do.   Less upfront, more spread across multiple years. 

I would think that that bonus could be part of the guaranteed money. More cash upfront. It’s more of the deeper pocket owners then a team bring smaller market as there is revenue sharing. But you are right colts don’t like to guarantee that money upfront.

[Superman]

Not worried, $18.5m/year. 

 

The top five guards right now make between $14m and 16.5m/year. I'm not sure where the $20m/year projection ever came from, and Ballard kind of poured cold water on that when he was asked a few months ago. The highest paid guard is Brandon Scherff, who signed with the Jags in FA this offseason for three years, $49.5m. Scherff is the 16th highest paid OL in the league. (By the way, Braden Smith is 12th at $17m/year; assume Nelson will come in above him.)

 

Then there's Joe Thuney, signed in 2021, for $16m/year; Joel Bitonio, signed in 2021, $16m/year; Wyatt Teller, signed in 2021, $14.5m/year; and 5th is Zack Martin, signed in 2018 for $14m/year. So from Martin's deal in 2018 to Scherff's deal in 2022, there's been an 18% increase in top guard pay. And that new top of market came in unrestricted free agency.

 

If Nelson came in at $20m/year, that would be a 21% increase from Scherff's free agent contract in the same season, when the previous 18% increase took four years to happen.

 

Nelson is set to make just under $14m in 2022. In 2023, the tag for OL should be about $19m. A second tag in 2024 would be about $23m. If the Colts tagged Nelson through 2024, he'd make about $56m, $18.66m/year. 

 

So right now, my offer would be five years total (expire after 2026), $92.5m, with $56m guaranteed for injury. The structure would effectively guarantee the first three seasons. Year 1 cash would be about $25m, and his 2022 cap hit would come down to about $9m. 

[NewColtsFan]

43 minutes ago, DougDew said:

What are you trying to say here?

 

How can spending money on one individual player not be connected with how much of a remaining budget you can spend on the other starting 21?

 

Do you have a household budget?

 

Because all positions in the NFL are connected to each other and are governed by a budget, that connection is the primary reason veteran players get cut.

I’ll put it another way.   We signed Eric Fisher last year with the hooe it would work out.   If it had worked out we’d have re-signed him to a much bigger contract.   2 years, maybe $25-30 million.    And we’d still be paying Quenton Nelson.  
 

Whether we sign Nelson to a deal closer to 17 or 18 or even 20, his money is not connected to the Left Tackle money.    If we had signed Fisher to a big deal we’d have made other decisions to afford what we need to.   Nelson’s deal is Nelson’s deal whatever it is.  Period. 
 

 

[NewColtsFan]

41 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I would think that that bonus could be part of the guaranteed money. More cash upfront. It’s more of the deeper pocket owners then a team bring smaller market as there is revenue sharing. But you are right colts don’t like to guarantee that money upfront.

Yes, the signing bonus IS part of the total guarantee.   The Colts try not to give out large signing bonuses.  

[NewColtsFan]

46 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Bad logic. 

 

AC's contract was set to expire prior to this season.  Before Q's contract is due.

 

Maybe there are some dots that are connected and Nelson and the LT situation are related. 

It’s not bad logic.   We were not planning on AC to retire.    Please see my response to @DougDew to see more logic that will no doubt disagree with. 

[Nickster]

9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

It’s not bad logic.   We were not planning on AC to retire.    Please see my response to @DougDew to see more logic that will no doubt disagree with. 

 

AC had been strongly considering retirement.  NCF, ACs contract was set to expire after last season.  He would not have been signed for this season.  They gave Fish a 1 year deal that did expire last year. 

 

This is this year.  We have around 6.5 mill total invested in the LT position.   THIS YEAR.

 

It appears that maybe the Q contract and the LT contracts are somewhat related doesn't it?

 

That is what is absurd.  Like Doug said all salaries are related in the League with the limited pie. 

 

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

I bet if you ask Matt Ryan who would he rather have, Nelson or Julio Jones in his prime, he would say Nelson. Reason being he has time to throw and any great QB can make an average WR look good if not great. Joe Burrow is on his way to having a short career because his O.Line stinks and he gets sacked and hit constantly like Luck did. Everyone salivates over Chase but it does no good when you have a stinky Line.

 

If I was a QB I would want a great Line because knowing I have 2.5 to 3 seconds to throw the ball, I could make most players look great. Common sense.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

AC had been strongly considering retirement.  NCF, ACs contract was set to expire after last season.  He would not have been signed for this season.  They gave Fish a 1 year deal that did expire last year. 

 

This is this year.  We have around 6.5 mill total invested in the LT position.   THIS YEAR.

 

It appears that maybe the Q contract and the LT contracts are somewhat related doesn't it?

 

That is what is absurd.  Like Doug said all salaries are related in the League with the limited pie. 

 

 

 

 

Goodness gracious.   The fact that ACs contract was up doesn’t mean we were planning for him to retire.   
 

But even if we were, we had long term plans for Fisher.   As bad as last year went for him, we still tried to bring him back this year.  If last year had gone well, we would’ve brought him back for multiple years at LT money.   
 

And if Pryor works out, he’ll get LT money next year.   He’ll be re-signed to be our LT for 23 and maybe beyond.   And if Pryor doesn’t work out, we’ll likely go with Raimann who will have 3 years left in his rookie contract.  
 

Nelson will eventually get his money and so will the LT.   Perhaps the decision down the road us that we move on from Kelly?   I’ve only been writing that for about a year. 
 

These things will work themselves out despite your lack of belief.  

[Nickster]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Goodness gracious.   The fact that ACs contract was up doesn’t mean we were planning for him to retire.   
 

But even if we were, we had long term plans for Fisher.   As bad as last year went for him, we still tried to bring him back this year.  If last year had gone well, we would’ve brought him back for multiple years at LT money.   
 

And if Pryor works out, he’ll get LT money next year.   He’ll be re-signed to be our LT for 23 and maybe beyond.   And if Pryor doesn’t work out, we’ll likely go with Raimann who will have 3 years left in his rookie contract.  
 

Nelson will eventually get his money and so will the LT.   Perhaps the decision down the road us that we move on from Kelly?   I’ve only been writing that for about a year. 
 

These things will work themselves out despite your lack of belief.  

Goodness gracious.  He's 34 years old.  How long do you think he was going to play?

 

You just won't admit that contracts are related.  Which is truly mindboggling.

 

Hello.  McFly. 

 

Do you even consider the possibility that a 5 million dollar journeyman and a 3rd round project Germanic dude are our LTs this year when we have a all that money tied up in RT, C, and potentially LG?

 

It doesn't seem that difficult to see NCF.  It just doesn't.  You and your absolute statements lol.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Yes when the boards main concern is signing a guard it really shows the poor drafting at DE, WR, LT,  and corner.

Larry Allen and Nate Newton says hold my beer - both OG's. They gave Troy all day to throw and Emmitt just ran off of them. They won 3 SB's and their O.Line was a huge reason.

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Larry Allen and Nate Newton says hold my beer - both OG's. They gave Troy all day to throw and Emmitt just ran off of them. They won 3 SB's and their O.Line was a huge reason.

You do realize that was almost 30 years ago now right?  

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Goodness gracious.  He's 34 years old.  How long do you think he was going to play?

 

You just won't admit that contracts are related.  Which is truly mindboggling.

 

Hello.  McFly. 

 

Do you even consider the possibility that a 5 million dollar journeyman and a 3rd round project Germanic dude are our LTs this year when we have a all that money tied up in RT, C, and potentially LG?

 

It doesn't seem that difficult to see NCF.  It just doesn't.  You and your absolute statements lol.  

I doubt we’d agree that today is Thursday.   MY absolute statements?!?   Dear God….   

[DougDew]

49 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’ll put it another way.   We signed Eric Fisher last year with the hooe it would work out.   If it had worked out we’d have re-signed him to a much bigger contract.   2 years, maybe $25-30 million.    And we’d still be paying Quenton Nelson.  
 

Whether we sign Nelson to a deal closer to 17 or 18 or even 20, his money is not connected to the Left Tackle money.    If we had signed Fisher to a big deal we’d have made other decisions to afford what we need to.   Nelson’s deal is Nelson’s deal whatever it is.  Period. 
 

 

Its still connected.   And remember, Fisher was never elite during his career even before the injury.

 

1.  Even if the market liked his play, with Fisher's age and injury history working against him, we probably would have gotten him for a low enough contract. Or,

 

2. We may have needed to pay him elite money, but with his age and injury history, we would have had to find another elite LT 3 years later.  Sort of doing at LT what we've been doing at QB.

 

Edit:  I would say the only way the contracts are not connected is if we drafted Darrisaw and rolled with his rookie deal for 5 years.  Or try a player like Pryor and see if we get great play relative to what we're paying him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

You do realize that was almost 30 years ago now right?  

 

 

Yeah but that Cowboys team would beat any team today, I have no doubt about that. They would take the Rams to the cleaners. Emmitt would run all over them. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

i would like to see Donald go up against Larry Allen