Dogmatic Coaching/Organization?

[Nickster]

I disagree with a couple of the prominent posters on here about our coaching.  I think we are undertalented at several key places which limits a lot of what offenses and defenses can run and try to run.  I actually think we get a lot out of a roster lacking starts at the most important positions.  I think Frank and staff get this team ready to compete most games. 

 

However, I do think this staff tends to be dogmatic.  For instance, it's time to take your eyes of the sheet and call the game according to the way it's going out there.  The 4th down stuff is ridiculous.  Why we can't gain a yard on a QB sneak with a multimillion dollar top 10 selection center, and a LG that will soon be paid as a LT is beyond perplexing.  Tom Brady who came in league looking like a tall guy who plays video games all day has been doing this for 20 years now.  wth?  Why can't we gain a yard?  

 

Jonathon Taylor has not proven to be a good short yardage back.  Hit the * hole for the love of god.  Get 2 or three.   He is big and seems like he should be good in short yardage, but he is indecisive, yet they continue to hand off to him to "establish" the run.   This league has worked the exact opposite for years.  You have to pass to run v. most NFL D's.  No one is just going to line up and play Wisconsin football.  They finally decided to try Mack late in the game, and I thought it looked OK.  He does things differently than Taylor.  Thought he had a nice 4-5 yd. stretch type play which set up some nice PA later.  Taylor is NOT GOOD at this type of run.  Why do they keep doing it over and over?  On the Mack TD drive, he also hit it right up into a pile and gained 2.  This set up a 3rd and short which we converted.  Taylor tends to * around and lose or gain nothing on plays he could get 2.  3rd and 2 or 3 is much easier than 3rd and 5 or six.  I'm not saying Mack is going to take this line in it's current state and put up PB numbers, but Taylor is KILLING us in the running game right now.  To me, they try Taylor too much, and don't try something else when it's not going good.

 

I think two things that the org wants to do because they are dogmatically attached to them is run the ball with Jonathon Taylor, and go for every 4th down that they can.  The best teams don't tie themselves down like this.  

 

 

[Thebrashandthebold]

36 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I disagree with a couple of the prominent posters on here about our coaching.  I think we are undertalented at several key places which limits a lot of what offenses and defenses can run and try to run.  I actually think we get a lot out of a roster lacking starts at the most important positions.  I think Frank and staff get this team ready to compete most games. 

 

However, I do think this staff tends to be dogmatic.  For instance, it's time to take your eyes of the sheet and call the game according to the way it's going out there.  The 4th down stuff is ridiculous.  Why we can't gain a yard on a QB sneak with a multimillion dollar top 10 selection center, and a LG that will soon be paid as a LT is beyond perplexing.  Tom Brady who came in league looking like a tall guy who plays video games all day has been doing this for 20 years now.  wth?  Why can't we gain a yard?  

 

Jonathon Taylor has not proven to be a good short yardage back.  Hit the * hole for the love of god.  Get 2 or three.   He is big and seems like he should be good in short yardage, but he is indecisive, yet they continue to hand off to him to "establish" the run.   This league has worked the exact opposite for years.  You have to pass to run v. most NFL D's.  No one is just going to line up and play Wisconsin football.  They finally decided to try Mack late in the game, and I thought it looked OK.  He does things differently than Taylor.  Thought he had a nice 4-5 yd. stretch type play which set up some nice PA later.  Taylor is NOT GOOD at this type of run.  Why do they keep doing it over and over?  On the Mack TD drive, he also hit it right up into a pile and gained 2.  This set up a 3rd and short which we converted.  Taylor tends to * around and lose or gain nothing on plays he could get 2.  3rd and 2 or 3 is much easier than 3rd and 5 or six.  I'm not saying Mack is going to take this line in it's current state and put up PB numbers, but Taylor is KILLING us in the running game right now.  To me, they try Taylor too much, and don't try something else when it's not going good.

 

I think two things that the org wants to do because they are dogmatically attached to them is run the ball with Jonathon Taylor, and go for every 4th down that they can.  The best teams don't tie themselves down like this.  

 

 

What does that have to do with making lousy decisions about when to take the points and when to go for a touchdown? That is a basic that Reich blows up just about every time it comes up. What about ramming into the defensive line three straight times for no gains? What coach in the NFL is worse than Reich? We will never contend for a title with this guy. What a mistake it was to give him a long term contract.

[Nickster]

10 minutes ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

What does that have to do with making lousy decisions about when to take the points and when to go for a touchdown? That is a basic that Reich blows up just about every time it comes up. What about ramming into the defensive line three straight times for no gains? What coach in the NFL is worse than Reich? We will never contend for a title with this guy. What a mistake it was to give him a long term contract.

 

Huh?  I discussed the 4th down thing in the 2nd paragraph.

[EastStreet]

Just get rid of the card, and buy one of these off ebay

 

 

 

[lollygagger8]

Coaching staff yesterday morning: 

 

[DougDew]

There have been many series in the NFL where the offense tried running the ball three straight times from 1st and 1 yard to go. 

 

People are making too much of this.

 

Frank called a pass play on 4th and 1, got a nine yard loss. 

 

SEA game, Frank called a pass play on 4th and 1.  Wentz didn't see Hines wide open or else the rush was on him too fast to do anything.

 

Getting stuffed 3 times.  OTOH, tacking sacks on 4th down pass plays.  Can't run, can't pass.  And you want to blame the play calling and not the lack of talent?

 

The defense has no talent outside of two positions.  And you want them to be aggressive?  Any blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while, but this defense will lose us games if it tries to be aggressive as normalcy.

[Nickster]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

There have been many series in the NFL where the offense tried running the ball three straight times from 1st and 1 yard to go. 

 

People are making too much of this.

 

Frank called a pass play on 4th and 1, got a nine yard loss. 

 

SEA game, Frank called a pass play on 4th and 1.  Wentz didn't see Hines wide open or else the rush was on him too fast to do anything.

 

Getting stuffed 3 times.  OTOH, tacking sacks on 4th down pass plays.  Can't run, can't pass.  And you want to blame the play calling and not the lack of talent?

 

The defense has no talent outside of two positions.  And you want them to be aggressive?  Any blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while, but this defense will lose us games if it tries to be aggressive as normalcy.

Sneak the football.  Don't always go on 4th down.  Most coaches take the points most of the time.  There are probably pretty good reasons for this conventional wisdom. 

 

I totally agree about our D.  It's pretty much a trash defense against good teams.

 

Another thing I think Frank and the org is dogmatic about is the personnel groupings on O and the unwillingness to adjust the talent on the field to the situation rather than always trying to dictate to situation by the talent put on the field.  

[King Colt]

Coaching has nothing to do with players near the goal line that can't get the ball in to the endzone on two possessions. Then let the Rams walk it in when they have the ball in the same location.

[bluephantom87]

44 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I disagree with a couple of the prominent posters on here about our coaching.  I think we are undertalented at several key places which limits a lot of what offenses and defenses can run and try to run.  I actually think we get a lot out of a roster lacking starts at the most important positions.  I think Frank and staff get this team ready to compete most games. 

 

However, I do think this staff tends to be dogmatic.  For instance, it's time to take your eyes of the sheet and call the game according to the way it's going out there.  The 4th down stuff is ridiculous.  Why we can't gain a yard on a QB sneak with a multimillion dollar top 10 selection center, and a LG that will soon be paid as a LT is beyond perplexing.  Tom Brady who came in league looking like a tall guy who plays video games all day has been doing this for 20 years now.  wth?  Why can't we gain a yard?  

 

Jonathon Taylor has not proven to be a good short yardage back.  Hit the * hole for the love of god.  Get 2 or three.   He is big and seems like he should be good in short yardage, but he is indecisive, yet they continue to hand off to him to "establish" the run.   This league has worked the exact opposite for years.  You have to pass to run v. most NFL D's.  No one is just going to line up and play Wisconsin football.  They finally decided to try Mack late in the game, and I thought it looked OK.  He does things differently than Taylor.  Thought he had a nice 4-5 yd. stretch type play which set up some nice PA later.  Taylor is NOT GOOD at this type of run.  Why do they keep doing it over and over?  On the Mack TD drive, he also hit it right up into a pile and gained 2.  This set up a 3rd and short which we converted.  Taylor tends to * around and lose or gain nothing on plays he could get 2.  3rd and 2 or 3 is much easier than 3rd and 5 or six.  I'm not saying Mack is going to take this line in it's current state and put up PB numbers, but Taylor is KILLING us in the running game right now.  To me, they try Taylor too much, and don't try something else when it's not going good.

 

I think two things that the org wants to do because they are dogmatically attached to them is run the ball with Jonathon Taylor, and go for every 4th down that they can.  The best teams don't tie themselves down like this.  

 

 

 

I agree with you Nickster on the talent level. I believe Ballard has built a SOLID team but not an elite team because of the lack of playmakers at the SKILL positions such as DE, WR, CB, LT, S and that will standout against the better teams. Now with that being said Frank is doing this team no favors with his stubborn playcalling against the top teams. Football is still a sport that on any given Sunday a less talented team can come out and beat you. Most of the time that happens when you come out with conservative gameplans instead of being aggressive which allows a team to hang around, when you commit key turnovers, another is leaving points on the table which come back to haunt you in close games or simply by coming out unprepared or motivated.

 

If the strength of the Rams on defense is their d-line which happens to be one of if not the best in the NFL, so do you think calling 3 STRAIGHT runs up the middle in tight formation on the goal line is smart against a STACKED box? No it's lazy and stubborn playcalling. Some will applaud that Frank then went for it on 4th down and showed that he was aggressive. How about better playcalling on the 3 DOWNS PRIOR?! Say a naked boot instead, a fade route, an RPO or a pitch off tackle? So at that point it was easy to sniff out the 4th down attempted pass play which got totally blown up based on said previous downs. Trying to force feed Taylor or Hines up the middle regardless of situation or opponent is not smart football and reading some of your narrative about Taylor you see this also. I think you can win with Frank as your hc but you'll never reach that elite SB level with Frank CALLING the plays nor do I think that the Colts will have an elite level TEAM capable of winning or making a SB unless Ballard improves on drafting special players instead of "reaches" at the skill spots. Quit drafting guys who have a history of injuries or are injured coming in. The low ceiling high reward types where the narrative is if he can stay healthy.....

[jshipp23]

Don't worry guys we are on a 10 year plan...Trust Ballard

[Nickster]

3 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

I agree with you Nickster on the talent level. I believe Ballard has built a SOLID team but not an elite team because of the lack of playmakers at the SKILL positions such as DE, WR, CB, LT, S and that will standout against the better teams. Now with that being said Frank is doing this team no favors with his stubborn playcalling against the top teams. Football is still a sport that on any given Sunday a less talented team can come out and beat you. Most of the time that happens when you come out with conservative gameplans instead of being aggressive which allows a team to hang around, when you commit key turnovers, another is leaving points on the table which come back to haunt you in close games or simply by coming out unprepared or motivated.

 

If the strength of the Rams on defense is their d-line which happens to be one of if not the best in the NFL, so do you think calling 3 STRAIGHT runs up the middle in tight formation on the goal line is smart against a STACKED box? No it's lazy and stubborn playcalling. Some will applaud that Frank then went for it on 4th down and showed that he was aggressive. How about better playcalling on the 3 DOWNS PRIOR?! Say a naked boot instead, a fade route, an RPO or a pitch off tackle? So at that point it was easy to sniff out the 4th down attempted pass play which got totally blown up based on said previous downs. Trying to force feed Taylor or Hines up the middle regardless of situation or opponent is not smart football and reading some of your narrative about Taylor you see this also. I think you can win with Frank as your hc but you'll never reach that elite SB level with Frank CALLING the plays nor do I think that the Colts will have an elite level TEAM capable of winning or making a SB unless Ballard improves on drafting special players instead of "reaches" at the skill spots. Quit drafting guys who have a history of injuries or are injured coming in. The low ceiling high reward types where the narrative is if he can stay healthy.....

 

Well the box is always stacked from the 1, and you hope to be able to gain 1 yd. But I agree with the Taylor/Hines thing.  

 

 I seriously would call 3 straight sneaks from there.  It would probably be unprecedented for an NFL team to not score from the 1 on 3 sneaks.  I can't for the life of me understand why we can't do it.

 

I agree with most of what you say, but I can also say that the talent on the team does not allow the coach to be all that creative.  We lack a dynamic pass catching Give me the dam ball threat, JT is limited in what he does well, Hines is too.  We have no Campbell using speed to put pressure on the D.  It would be interesting to see what Frank's ideas could do with some dynamic talent.

 

One thing that Colts' fans are losing sight of is that we are slow overall. Our talent is built up the middle and we don't have enough team speed on O or D to try the creative approach so many are clamoring for.  I think they tried to buck the trend and become a smashmouth team, and I don't think that is going to work out, and didn't think it was a good idea from the beginning.  

 

Who knows man.  I thought we would have a bad year as soon as PR retired, and don't see any reason to this point to deviate from that thought. 

 

Crap.  My FF team sucks too. 

[Nickster]

12 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

I agree with you Nickster on the talent level. I believe Ballard has built a SOLID team but not an elite team because of the lack of playmakers at the SKILL positions such as DE, WR, CB, LT, S and that will standout against the better teams. Now with that being said Frank is doing this team no favors with his stubborn playcalling against the top teams. Football is still a sport that on any given Sunday a less talented team can come out and beat you. Most of the time that happens when you come out with conservative gameplans instead of being aggressive which allows a team to hang around, when you commit key turnovers, another is leaving points on the table which come back to haunt you in close games or simply by coming out unprepared or motivated.

 

If the strength of the Rams on defense is their d-line which happens to be one of if not the best in the NFL, so do you think calling 3 STRAIGHT runs up the middle in tight formation on the goal line is smart against a STACKED box? No it's lazy and stubborn playcalling. Some will applaud that Frank then went for it on 4th down and showed that he was aggressive. How about better playcalling on the 3 DOWNS PRIOR?! Say a naked boot instead, a fade route, an RPO or a pitch off tackle? So at that point it was easy to sniff out the 4th down attempted pass play which got totally blown up based on said previous downs. Trying to force feed Taylor or Hines up the middle regardless of situation or opponent is not smart football and reading some of your narrative about Taylor you see this also. I think you can win with Frank as your hc but you'll never reach that elite SB level with Frank CALLING the plays nor do I think that the Colts will have an elite level TEAM capable of winning or making a SB unless Ballard improves on drafting special players instead of "reaches" at the skill spots. Quit drafting guys who have a history of injuries or are injured coming in. The low ceiling high reward types where the narrative is if he can stay healthy.....

Bottom line is that I think our talent deficit supercedes coaching deficit. 

[JMichael557]

Taylor has been excellant i short yardage if given the chance. Our problem in short yardage has been poor formations that lead to little or no push. Count the defenders vs. the lineman and you will see that we are overwhelmed at the poin of attack. Bunch offensive formations are bad formations for running.  Mack has clearly not recovered and had little or no burst yesterday not at his previous level. 

[SR711]

Lots of good points on this thread which I agree with.

 

From my perspective, its a combination of lack of coaching adjustments and lack of talent.

 

1. We saw Aaron Donald line up multiple times at edge just to put him in a position to work against the weak link in the O-line in Davenport.  Have we tried to do that with our best D-lineman in Buckner on obvious passing downs?

 

2. Good arguments can be made on either side on going for it on 4th down, plays calls, etc. One overlooked thing that is overlooked both times is the D could not force a three and out (the first drive after turnover on downs, Rams marched down the field for a TD) either time that really might have rendered the decision a moot, given offense good field position and changed the course of the game. This the same type of result that made a similar decision in WC game at Buffalo all the more impactful. On the flip side, we had a failed 4th and goal attempt in the 2nd half last year in the Thursday night game at Titans, but the D forced a quick 3 and out, and very next possession (on good field position) we scored a TD. Sometimes the D has to step up on these roll the dice aggressive situations in order to beat talented teams.

 

3. One final note about Reich's thought process on decisions to go for on 4th down this week, last week and in WC game  (and this is not my personal defense of it just meant to generate discussion). Maybe it is more of a reflection of the confidence he has in the D going up against a talented offense. A lot of past performance has shown that the D really has looked pretty bad a lot of times against upper level QBs and passing offenses so maybe he figures FGs just wont cut it.

[Thebrashandthebold]

4 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

Huh?  I discussed the 4th down thing in the 2nd paragraph.

No, you didn't except to demand a QB sneak. How about running it twice or sneaking but then taking the points when that doesn't work. You didn't address that at all. That play calling and the decision was all on Reich and had done it over and over again. He is clueless.

[bleed blue4life]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

There have been many series in the NFL where the offense tried running the ball three straight times from 1st and 1 yard to go. 

 

People are making too much of this.

 

Frank called a pass play on 4th and 1, got a nine yard loss. 

 

SEA game, Frank called a pass play on 4th and 1.  Wentz didn't see Hines wide open or else the rush was on him too fast to do anything.

 

Getting stuffed 3 times.  OTOH, tacking sacks on 4th down pass plays.  Can't run, can't pass.  And you want to blame the play calling and not the lack of talent?

 

The defense has no talent outside of two positions.  And you want them to be aggressive?  Any blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while, but this defense will lose us games if it tries to be aggressive as normalcy.

take the three

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, bleed blue 4 life said:

take the three

I'd have to look closer. JTs final dive may have put us on the half yard line.

 

If he calls another run, its either a TD or give Stafford the ball at the half yard line.

 

You get the ball right back in good field position.  If the defense does its job.

 

Maybe even score 2 pts instead of 3 pts.