Colts Needs on Offense: Poll Part 1 (Please read OP)

[superrep1967]

On 1/11/2020 at 8:08 PM, GoColts00 said:

Disagree with you. Playing next season with JB should allow us a high draft pick in 2021. 

Draft picks usually get much better their 2nd & 3rd seasons, so drafting personnel around the QB this season will allow most of the Team to be excellent the 2021 season.

Yes and I want Lawrence. 

[Imgrandojji]

I think people are giving up on Brissett a little bit too early.  Remember, the offense was build around a completely different quarterback and adjusted on the fly, and he still did OK in the first half.  When the wheels fell off and injuries started piling up, he fell off the table, and so did everyone else except the OL and RB units.

 

We have a guy who holds the ball a long time and has a couple bad mental habits.  None of that is particularly unsolvable.  Especially with a great OL and a very good run game.

 

I personally would really like to see what Brissett can do with a roster built to accentuate his strengths and cover his weaknesses, rather than one built for an entirely different offensive style.  And yes, Brissett definitely has strengths to exploit.  He's fairly accurate on short to medium passes, runs a good play action, and has the ability to both scramble and step up against the rush. There's a skillset there to be exploited, if you have the right personnel.  An elite slot guy would go a long way to getting there.

 

What Brissett needs IMHO is a scheme that hits short passes and runs the play action until the CBs are drawn forward, then allows Brissett to throw deep to an area and get a fast WR or two a chance to get behind the safety.  He pulled that kind of throw several times in 17 to Moncrief and TY. 

 

The problem with Brissett's deep game IMHO is that Reich is insisting on accurate throws deep, and Brissett's only average or so at that.  He doesn't have pinpoint on the deep ball but he can get it out to an area if a WR can go get it.  If you set the scheme up with play actions, run game and screens to draw the secondary forward, they will eventually bite and open up that deep game.  Luck also made that kind of throw a lot -- throw to zone rather than throw to target I mean.  I think Reich overcompensated a bit for not having Luck by not letting Brissett attempt that kind of throw more.

 

The point is, it looked like we were headed in that direction and then Brissett's knee injury happened and suddenly Reich went completely away from it and Brissett basiacally became a caddy QB to offset the run game and was throwing nothing but short passes.  It's like Reich suddenly became afraid to work with him.

 

 The guy's no Aaron Rodgers but I think people are underestimating what the guy can do if he's given his head.

[CR91]

3 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

I know he can't come out he's only sophomore but the QB the get is Lawrence maybe we should suck in 2020 to get him. 

 

We're not bad enough to get the top pick in the draft

[EastStreet]

On 1/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, Imgrandojji said:

I think people are giving up on Brissett a little bit too early.  Remember, the offense was build around a completely different quarterback and adjusted on the fly, and he still did OK in the first half.  When the wheels fell off and injuries started piling up, he fell off the table, and so did everyone else except the OL and RB units.

Gonna disagree on the underlying premise here. Reich has been building the offense around a scheme, more than a person. Sure play calling is subject to personnel, but Reich doesn't want to build something predicated on a person. He wants guys, QB included, that fit his offensive scheme. 

On 1/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, Imgrandojji said:

We have a guy who holds the ball a long time and has a couple bad mental habits.  None of that is particularly unsolvable.  Especially with a great OL and a very good run game.

The things that are causing him to hold onto the ball a long time, are the real issues, and are not exactly easy to solve. They are the same things he's been struggling with consistently since college.

On 1/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, Imgrandojji said:

I personally would really like to see what Brissett can do with a roster built to accentuate his strengths and cover his weaknesses, rather than one built for an entirely different offensive style.  And yes, Brissett definitely has strengths to exploit.  He's fairly accurate on short to medium passes, runs a good play action, and has the ability to both scramble and step up against the rush. There's a skillset there to be exploited, if you have the right personnel.  An elite slot guy would go a long way to getting there.

Again, IMO, Reich wants to build more around a scheme, not a player. Do you really think he wants to change his coaching scheme/identity? 

 

Also, on elite slot guy, Brissett has struggled to hit open slots all year in the seam +5 yards, and especially +10. The seam is prime time locale for slots and TEs, and JB simply missed them most of year. Plenty of struggles in this area before injuries took their toll, and plenty of all-22 shots showing open guys in the seam even after the injuries. You can look at Nextgen's passing charts on JB and see the same thing.

 

Hypothetically speaking, what specifically is needed to promote JB's strengths. We already have a top 5ish OL and running game. We had two pretty good TEs most of the year. Sure we had injury issues with WRs, but we still had plenty of open guys even with replacement guys. 

On 1/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, Imgrandojji said:

What Brissett needs IMHO is a scheme that hits short passes and runs the play action until the CBs are drawn forward, then allows Brissett to throw deep to an area and get a fast WR or two a chance to get behind the safety.  He pulled that kind of throw several times in 17 to Moncrief and TY.

 

On 1/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, Imgrandojji said:

The problem with Brissett's deep game IMHO is that Reich is insisting on accurate throws deep, and Brissett's only average or so at that.  He doesn't have pinpoint on the deep ball but he can get it out to an area if a WR can go get it.  If you set the scheme up with play actions, run game and screens to draw the secondary forward, they will eventually bite and open up that deep game.  Luck also made that kind of throw a lot -- throw to zone rather than throw to target I mean.  I think Reich overcompensated a bit for not having Luck by not letting Brissett attempt that kind of throw more.

Reich's O is already a lot of short passes, and occasional deep shots. The deep shots aren't necessarily to an area though (some are), that's more a Chud type O. So you're basically saying mask his inability to be accurate, and Reich should change his core scheme principal instead of finding a player to fit his offensive philosophy? 

On 1/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, Imgrandojji said:

The point is, it looked like we were headed in that direction and then Brissett's knee injury happened and suddenly Reich went completely away from it and Brissett basiacally became a caddy QB to offset the run game and was throwing nothing but short passes.  It's like Reich suddenly became afraid to work with him.

Don't agree here. JB simply didn't go deep a lot early. They tried to go deep more later, but simply was not successful. Take a look at the Nextgen weekly charts. 

 

You also need to take into account that teams started playing us different after they got tape on JB. They started zoning more, which JB also struggled with, even with WRs getting open. They also started focusing on the run and daring him to pass, playing farther off the line. Even some of the worst passing Ds gave him significant trouble. There are very real reasons why he was turned into a game manager several games. 

On 1/13/2020 at 3:50 PM, Imgrandojji said:

 The guy's no Aaron Rodgers but I think people are underestimating what the guy can do if he's given his head.

To wrap this up, he's no AR, but he's also deficient in a lot of areas and not a lot of other guys either. His average rank for instance in the 4 core QB measurements (YPG, QBR, Comp%, AVG) are 27th IIRC. While even a game manager QB like Jimmy G's average was 9th. I'm just not sure a coach, or an organization should scrap or change drastically, the scheme of the coach they hired to install that scheme. Not sure that they should be pressed into augmenting personnel on either side of the ball to mask deficiencies for a guy that might not fit the teams O scheme in the first place. Would you ask Andy Reid to change his scheme to fit JB?

[Freenyfan102]

could we also get a punishing powers RB if there any this draft thats coming out

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, Freenyfan102 said:

could we also get a punishing powers RB if there any this draft thats coming out

I'd love a legit short yardage back. You can find those middle rounds, but I'd prefer a FA.

[Freenyfan102]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

I'd love a legit short yardage back. You can find those middle rounds, but I'd prefer a FA.

yeah but a rookie you can really mold them

[EastStreet]

8 hours ago, Freenyfan102 said:

yeah but a rookie you can really mold them

Having a top 10 running game already, we've got bigger needs IMO. Not looking to displace Mack either, just would like to have someone that can be a thumper on short yardage and goal line situations. I wouldn't even ponder using a draft pick on a RB until we've addressed QB, iDL, OT, and WR. Maybe edge as well. Not really worried about molding a guy to be honest that is only situational. More concerned over core positional areas.

[Pacergeek]

Colts should draft both Tee Higgins and Henry Riggs. Ballard needs to stop messing around with the WR position. 

I would also like a TE. Either Kmet the Frog or Randy Moss's son. 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Colts should draft both Tee Higgins and Henry Riggs. Ballard needs to stop messing around with the WR position. 

I would also like a TE. Either Kmet the Frog or Randy Moss's son. 

So you want to have the best WR unit in the league, expending draft capital for 2 first round WRs and a 1st round TE, and not interested in improving a below average QB, Pass rush, and pass D early. 

[Freenyfan102]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Having a top 10 running game already, we've got bigger needs IMO. Not looking to displace Mack either, just would like to have someone that can be a thumper on short yardage and goal line situations. I wouldn't even ponder using a draft pick on a RB until we've addressed QB, iDL, OT, and WR. Maybe edge as well. Not really worried about molding a guy to be honest that is only situational. More concerned over core positional areas.

Mack health is a concern for a guy who is soon to be 24 he was out a couple of game and this was his first full year

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, Freenyfan102 said:

Mack health is a concern for a guy who is soon to be 24 he was out a couple of game and this was his first full year

Huh? He was out 2 games with a broken hand and came back quickly. Broken bones, especially a hand, is nothing to worry about from a RB. Now if he was plagued with soft tissue or ankle issues, I'd be concerned, but he was very durable this year. Still eclipsed 1000 even though he missed two games and had teams keying on our run O.

[Pacergeek]

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

So you want to have the best WR unit in the league, expending draft capital for 2 first round WRs and a 1st round TE, and not interested in improving a below average QB, Pass rush, and pass D early. 

I would agree it's typically not the best draft strategy to invest in 2 WR's high in the draft. However, we have not had a WR2 since Reggie Wayne retired. Let's stop messing around, and fix this seemingly never ending weakness. 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

I would agree it's typically not the best draft strategy to invest in 2 WR's high in the draft. However, we have not had a WR2 since Reggie Wayne retired. Let's stop messing around, and fix this seemingly never ending weakness. 

It's not like Ballard hasn't tried. He brought in one of the top FAs (Funch), and drafted a guy in the second round. It's not his fault both were injured almost all year. That's just freak level type bad luck. Both were seen as legit WR2 talents coming in. Funch was drafted to be WR1 originally. A starting line up with a healthy TY, Funch, and Campbell would have been one of the most talented in the league. Got to have a QB that can maximize that talent though too.

 

This class of WRs is very very deep. You're going to get typical first round talent into the 2nd round. Your going to get second round talent going into the 3-5 rounds. There are lots of guys I can see being a legit WR2 mocked in the 5th. 

 

And using Harrison/Wayne, and Wayne/TY is not really reality in terms of WR2. Harrison, Wayne, and TY were all WR1s lol. It's rare for teams to have 2 of those level guys at the same time. We lucked out during those years just like we lucked out with the drafting PM and AL as our last two QBs.

 

I do agree though, we need to do something. My strategy would depend on what we do at QB though. 

[WarGhost21]

17 hours ago, Freenyfan102 said:

could we also get a punishing powers RB if there any this draft thats coming out

See:   AJ Dillon, RB, Boston College

 

Massive power back who should be available in rounds 6/7

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

See:   AJ Dillon, RB, Boston College

 

Massive power back who should be available in rounds 6/7

 

He is massive.

If you want a specialist short yardage RB, he'd be perfect running deep set in a power gap scheme. Total monster at 6ft 250lbs

[WarGhost21]

Just now, EastStreet said:

 

He is massive.

If you want a specialist short yardage RB, he'd be perfect running deep set in a power gap scheme. Total monster at 6ft 250lbs

He's one of my favorite picks late in my mock drafts. We currently don't have a guy who is a real power back, so he would fit a need for sure

[EastStreet]

8 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

He's one of my favorite picks late in my mock drafts. We currently don't have a guy who is a real power back, so he would fit a need for sure

I would definitely use a 6 or 7 on him. RBs is a bottom priority for me (along with LB), and I'm not a fan of 6/7th round success rates, but I'd jump all over him that late.

[The Oopty Oop]

What if Ballard could get TB12 and Cooper in free agency and then draft one of the top WR in the 1st round. Our offense would be above average in a hurry. 

[King Colt]

With Watson on Houston and Mahomes on KC the Colts can't settle for a better than average QB to lead the AFC.

[Pacergeek]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

It's not like Ballard hasn't tried. He brought in one of the top FAs (Funch), and drafted a guy in the second round. It's not his fault both were injured almost all year. That's just freak level type bad luck. Both were seen as legit WR2 talents coming in. Funch was drafted to be WR1 originally. A starting line up with a healthy TY, Funch, and Campbell would have been one of the most talented in the league. Got to have a QB that can maximize that talent though too.

 

This class of WRs is very very deep. You're going to get typical first round talent into the 2nd round. Your going to get second round talent going into the 3-5 rounds. There are lots of guys I can see being a legit WR2 mocked in the 5th. 

 

And using Harrison/Wayne, and Wayne/TY is not really reality in terms of WR2. Harrison, Wayne, and TY were all WR1s lol. It's rare for teams to have 2 of those level guys at the same time. We lucked out during those years just like we lucked out with the drafting PM and AL as our last two QBs.

 

I do agree though, we need to do something. My strategy would depend on what we do at QB though. 

Ballard tried to address the WR problem last year, but it was a swing and a miss. I am over trying out veteran, unproven WR's to fill a need. If Ballard wants to buy a FA WR, he needs to make sure he buys a good one. I liked Campbell at Ohio St, but he looked lost out there last season. Not comfortable relying on him to be a significant piece going forward. 

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Ballard tried to address the WR problem last year, but it was a swing and a miss. I am over trying out veteran, unproven WR's to fill a need. If Ballard wants to buy a FA WR, he needs to make sure he buys a good one. I liked Campbell at Ohio St, but he looked lost out there last season. Not comfortable relying on him to be a significant piece going forward. 

Funch is a proven WR2. He was drafted to be a WR1, didn't live up to a 1, but would make a decent 2. 

 

Too soon to grade Campbell. He missed camp and was hurt off and on all year. Having JB as a QB, who doesn't like to throw to the seam, didn't make it easy on him when he did play.

[Pacergeek]

13 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Funch is a proven WR2. He was drafted to be a WR1, didn't live up to a 1, but would make a decent 2. 

 

Too soon to grade Campbell. He missed camp and was hurt off and on all year. Having JB as a QB, who doesn't like to throw to the seam, didn't make it easy on him when he did play.

In theory, you are correct. Ballard tried to address this position, but it did not work out. We need a different approach. Yes, Campbell could pan out, but I wouldn't not draft another WR because Campbell is on the roster. We need competition across the board. Maybe a reason Campbell was bad is because nobody pushed him. 

[EastStreet]

26 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

In theory, you are correct. Ballard tried to address this position, but it did not work out. We need a different approach. Yes, Campbell could pan out, but I wouldn't not draft another WR because Campbell is on the roster. We need competition across the board. Maybe a reason Campbell was bad is because nobody pushed him. 

Different approach to injury? Anyone we draft or sign in FA could get injured like Funch..

 

Campbell bad? Come on man. He missed camp, was a rook, and was injured most of the year, and with a below average QB who couldn't throw to the slot sweet spot (seam) when he was healthy... He had 18 catches on only 24 targets. That's a decent catch rate. And his best game was with Hoyer where he went 5 of 5.

[Freenyfan102]

5 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

See:   AJ Dillon, RB, Boston College

 

Massive power back who should be available in rounds 6/7

yeah i always prefer the power back becuase if the colts are running the ball we enough even in the 4 qrt the other team does not want to tackle anymore

[indyagent17]

On 1/11/2020 at 1:27 PM, CR91 said:

Depends how the draft falls. If Tua and Herbert are gone, then you take either Henry Riggs or Derek Brown

Javon Kinlaw is Brown is gone