Colts Training Camp 7/26/18

[throwing BBZ]

32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 

Yeah and no matter how many times you tell them he has beaten 2 Very Good teams in the Playoffs in KC and Denver, they act like it never happened. We were 8 point underdogs when we won the Divisional Round game at MileHigh. He has also beat the Seahawks/Wilson, Packers/Rodgers twice, and the 49ers when they were Very Good back in 2013. Last time I looked none of those teams are in our Division. People will say but yeah he is still barely over .500 outside the Division. OK, 2 can play at this game as in if they want to disregard his Division wins, then lets take the Pats out of the equation where he is 0-5. Take them out and he's way above .500. He has basically only been owned by 1 team and that is the Pats. Almost everyone has been owned by them so it's not a shock he hasn't beat them.

 

-In positive news, glad to see he is throwing again and with velocity. I guess the haters can go eat crow now. I have said all along he would start opening day (months ago). Heck he is starting in the 1st Pre-Season game even which I didn't see that coming months ago.

 

Luck is 16-2  in his division and 27-25  v. rest of NFL. 3-3 playoffs

 

 

Haha. KC was up 38-10. Lost their top RB in the 1st half, Tomba Hali and 2 starting DB's in the 2nd half. The ONLY way they made it to denver, where Manning blames a calf injury for why he couldn't complete a pass over ten yards. So Lucky.
 In Luck's other playoff win, Cin is missing both TE's, AJ Green and their 3rd wide receiver.
Along with Burflict and another starting LB. A Total Gimme Game.
 They beat San Fran the week after Seattle had crushed them. From that game they lost A Bolden, V Davis, NT Ian Clark, and Justin Smith played with one good arm.
Jeff Linkenbach was the big story at Guard dominating the middle in the run game.  chuckle
They were a shell the day Lucky got them.
 And Kaep, if you remember, couldn't complete wide open 10 yard outs that day. A total dud.

 Call it hate all you want.
 Nine 4th q comebacks his rookie season. We were behind a lot of bad teams because we had played ugly football. Pitiful defense with terrible tackling was just as responsible for most of those comebacks. Not saying Lucky didn't make winning escapes, runs, throws

 with the game on the line. But Lots of bad football with yeehaa outcomes.

 Show me.

Ballard will get him the best help he has had. I hope i live long enough to see the fruits. Go Colts!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah and no matter how many times you tell them he has beaten 2 Very Good teams in the Playoffs in KC and Denver, they act like it never happened. We were 8 point underdogs when we won the Divisional Round game at MileHigh. He has also beat the Seahawks/Wilson, Packers/Rodgers twice, and the 49ers when they were Very Good back in 2013. Last time I looked none of those teams are in our Division. People will say but yeah he is still barely over .500 outside the Division. OK, 2 can play at this game as in if they want to disregard his Division wins, then lets take the Pats out of the equation where he is 0-5. Take them out and he's way above .500. He has basically only been owned by 1 team and that is the Pats. Almost everyone has been owned by them so it's not a shock he hasn't beat them.

 

-In positive news, glad to see he is throwing again and with velocity. I guess the haters can go eat crow now. I have said all along he would start opening day (months ago). Heck he is starting in the 1st Pre-Season game even which I didn't see that coming months ago.

Yup And the Playoff wins!!

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Luck is 16-2  in his division and 27-25  v. rest of NFL. 3-3 playoffs

 

 

Haha. KC was up 38-10. Lost their top RB in the 1st half, Tomba Hali and 2 starting DB's in the 2nd half. The ONLY way they made it to denver, where Manning blames a calf injury for why he couldn't complete a pass over ten yards. So Lucky.
 In Luck's other playoff win, Cin is missing both TE's, AJ Green and their 3rd wide receiver.
Along with Burflict and another starting LB. A Total Gimme Game.
 They beat San Fran the week after Seattle had crushed them. From that game they lost A Bolden, V Davis, NT Ian Clark, and Justin Smith played with one good arm.
Jeff Linkenbach was the big story at Guard dominating the middle in the run game.  chuckle
They were a shell the day Lucky got them.
 And Kaep, if you remember, couldn't complete wide open 10 yard outs that day. A total dud.

 Call it hate all you want.
 Nine 4th q comebacks his rookie season. We were behind a lot of bad teams because we had played ugly football. Pitiful defense with terrible tackling was just as responsible for most of those comebacks. Not saying Lucky didn't make winning escapes, runs, throws

 with the game on the line. But Lots of bad football with yeehaa outcomes.

 Show me.

Ballard will get him the best help he has had. I hope i live long enough to see the fruits. Go Colts!

So you want to discredit his Division wins . Ok then I am not counting his losses to the Patriots because the Pats were a stacked team with a much better Coach. Fair is fair. So take the Pats out of the equation and his Division record out of the equation, he is 27-22 and 3-1 in the Playoffs = Very Good.

 

-And I will call it hate because your Trolling at this point and even coming up with excuses why we won Playoff games. 

[NorthernBlue]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Luck is 16-2  in his division and 27-25  v. rest of NFL. 3-3 playoffs

 

 

Haha. KC was up 38-10. Lost their top RB in the 1st half, Tomba Hali and 2 starting DB's in the 2nd half. The ONLY way they made it to denver, where Manning blames a calf injury for why he couldn't complete a pass over ten yards. So Lucky.
 In Luck's other playoff win, Cin is missing both TE's, AJ Green and their 3rd wide receiver.
Along with Burflict and another starting LB. A Total Gimme Game.
 They beat San Fran the week after Seattle had crushed them. From that game they lost A Bolden, V Davis, NT Ian Clark, and Justin Smith played with one good arm.
 Jeff Linkenbach was the big story at Guard dominating the middle in the run game.  chuckle
 They were a shell the day Lucky got them.
 And Kaep, if you remember, couldn't complete wide open 10 yard outs that day. A total dud.

  Call it hate all you want.
 Nine 4th q comebacks his rookie season. We were behind a lot of bad teams because we had played ugly football. Pitiful defense with terrible tackling was just as responsible for most of those comebacks. Not saying Lucky didn't make winning escapes, runs, throws

 with the game on the line. But Lots of bad football with yeehaa outcomes.

 Show me.

Ballard will get him the best help he has had. I hope i live long enough to see the fruits. Go Colts!

Sure. Colts got lucky that those teams lost important players. 

 

Here's my question. When has Luck EVER played with good players? TY is like the only stud he's had. He has all those wins despite:

 

-Trash Offensive line

-Poor coaching

-Lack of a run game (never had an RB average more than 4 ypc EXCEPT Bradshaw in 2014, and he only played 8 games)

-Crap defense

 

Take a look at this.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2016/08/02/colts-release-first-depth-chart/87963372/

 

That's the Colts depth chart from 2 seasons ago (aka, last time Luck was playing).

 

Look at how many starters on BOTH sides of the ball are still on this team. 4 starters (TY, AC, Mewhort, Kelly) from the offense, and 1(!) starter from the defense (and they list TJ Green as a starter. I believe Darius Butler played more than him that season, so if you count him, then that's 0 starters from the 2016 defense that is still on the 2018 Colts).

 

Now give me a Quarterback who did more with less. 

[CR91]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Luck is 16-2  in his division and 27-25  v. rest of NFL. 3-3 playoffs

 

 

Haha. KC was up 38-10. Lost their top RB in the 1st half, Tomba Hali and 2 starting DB's in the 2nd half. The ONLY way they made it to denver, where Manning blames a calf injury for why he couldn't complete a pass over ten yards. So Lucky.
 In Luck's other playoff win, Cin is missing both TE's, AJ Green and their 3rd wide receiver.
Along with Burflict and another starting LB. A Total Gimme Game.
 They beat San Fran the week after Seattle had crushed them. From that game they lost A Bolden, V Davis, NT Ian Clark, and Justin Smith played with one good arm.
Jeff Linkenbach was the big story at Guard dominating the middle in the run game.  chuckle
They were a shell the day Lucky got them.
 And Kaep, if you remember, couldn't complete wide open 10 yard outs that day. A total dud.

 Call it hate all you want.
 Nine 4th q comebacks his rookie season. We were behind a lot of bad teams because we had played ugly football. Pitiful defense with terrible tackling was just as responsible for most of those comebacks. Not saying Lucky didn't make winning escapes, runs, throws

 with the game on the line. But Lots of bad football with yeehaa outcomes.

 Show me.

Ballard will get him the best help he has had. I hope i live long enough to see the fruits. Go Colts!

 

whats your excuse for beating the packers and seahawks then? or the 3 times he beat the broncos? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

Sure. Colts got lucky that those teams lost important players. 

 

Here's my question. When has Luck EVER played with good players? TY is like the only stud he's had. He has all those wins despite:

 

-Trash Offensive line

-Poor coaching

-Lack of a run game (never had an RB average more than 4 ypc EXCEPT Bradshaw in 2014, and he only played 8 games)

-Crap defense

 

Take a look at this.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2016/08/02/colts-release-first-depth-chart/87963372/

 

That's the Colts depth chart from 2 seasons ago (aka, last time Luck was playing).

 

Look at how many starters on BOTH sides of the ball are still on this team. 4 starters (TY, AC, Mewhort, Kelly) from the offense, and 1(!) starter from the defense (and they list TJ Green as a starter. I believe Darius Butler played more than him that season, so if you count him, then that's 0 starters from the 2016 defense that is still on the 2018 Colts).

 

Now give me a Quarterback who did more with less. 

You are wasting your time, just like we beat a loaded Seahawks team in 2013 with the great Russell Wilson lead by Luck. When it comes to some of the wins Luck has had for some reason the haters act like they never existed. 

[NorthernBlue]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

You are wasting your time, just like we beat a loaded Seahawks team in 2013 with the great Russell Wilson lead by Luck. When it comes to some of the wins Luck has had for some reason the haters act like they never existed. 

All because he hasn’t beaten NE I think. Here’s my question, who has? Not Ben. Not Carr. Not Mariota. Not Rivers. The last QB in the AFC that was actually able to consistently beat Tom Brady was Peyton Manning.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, NorthernBlue said:

All because he hasn’t beaten NE I think. Here’s my question, who has? Not Ben. Not Carr. Not Mariota. Not Rivers. The last QB in the AFC that was actually able to consistently beat Tom Brady was Peyton Manning.

Exactly. Manning was even owned by the Pats the 1st 7 years of his career until 2005 and then 2006 in the Playoffs. I mean, really lets hate on Luck because he hasn't beat the greatest dynasty of all-time. It's freakin laughable. Look at how Bad Roethlisberger has been against them. 

[Goatface Killah]

If it were something to be concerned about, he probably wouldnt have been so up front about it.

[Yoshinator]

41 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Exactly. Manning was even owned by the Pats the 1st 7 years of his career until 2005 and then 2006 in the Playoffs. I mean, really lets hate on Luck because he hasn't beat the greatest dynasty of all-time. It's freakin laughable. Look at how Bad Roethlisberger has been against them. 

I'll say this. I'm lower on Luck than most of the forum, but for me, it's not just because he hasn't beaten NE. It's because he hasn't beaten Pitt either. It's nearly impossible to get through the playoffs without facing either. Add Jax to the mix, who is a very bad matchup now, and I don't know if we can win a SB even improving the roster. We may just have to wait out NE and Pitt before we have a shot at a SB, and Luck could be 35 by then and on the decline. 

 

People are mentioning his wins against Seattle and GB. For me, those are wins against NFC teams. Not to say they weren't impressive, but we aren't facing them in the playoffs unless it's the SB, so beating them won't mean a lot in the long run. Beating teams like NE, Pitt, Jax, and Hou is what matters now as we will have to face them in the playoffs almost every year now. If Luck beats them consistently, then that's our path to the SB. He hasn't done it with NE and Pitt yet, and Jax and Hou will be a problem for the forseeable future. So I'm reserving judgment on Luck for now as being able to take us to the promised land.

 

I'm looking forward to the season though!

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Luck is 16-2  in his division and 27-25  v. rest of NFL. 3-3 playoffs

 

 

Haha. KC was up 38-10. Lost their top RB in the 1st half, Tomba Hali and 2 starting DB's in the 2nd half. The ONLY way they made it to denver, where Manning blames a calf injury for why he couldn't complete a pass over ten yards. So Lucky.
 In Luck's other playoff win, Cin is missing both TE's, AJ Green and their 3rd wide receiver.
Along with Burflict and another starting LB. A Total Gimme Game.
 They beat San Fran the week after Seattle had crushed them. From that game they lost A Bolden, V Davis, NT Ian Clark, and Justin Smith played with one good arm.
Jeff Linkenbach was the big story at Guard dominating the middle in the run game.  chuckle
They were a shell the day Lucky got them.
 And Kaep, if you remember, couldn't complete wide open 10 yard outs that day. A total dud.

 Call it hate all you want.
 Nine 4th q comebacks his rookie season. We were behind a lot of bad teams because we had played ugly football. Pitiful defense with terrible tackling was just as responsible for most of those comebacks. Not saying Lucky didn't make winning escapes, runs, throws

 with the game on the line. But Lots of bad football with yeehaa outcomes.

 Show me.

Ballard will get him the best help he has had. I hope i live long enough to see the fruits. Go Colts!

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'll say this. I'm lower on Luck than most of the forum, but for me, it's not just because he hasn't beaten NE. It's because he hasn't beaten Pitt either. It's nearly impossible to get through the playoffs without facing either. Add Jax to the mix, who is a very bad matchup now, and I don't know if we can win a SB even improving the roster. We may just have to wait out NE and Pitt before we have a shot at a SB, and Luck could be 35 by then and on the decline. 

 

People are mentioning his wins against Seattle and GB. For me, those are wins against NFC teams. Not to say they weren't impressive, but we aren't facing them in the playoffs unless it's the SB, so beating them won't mean a lot in the long run. Beating teams like NE, Pitt, Jax, and Hou is what matters now as we will have to face them in the playoffs almost every year now. If Luck beats them consistently, then that's our path to the SB. He hasn't done it with NE and Pitt yet, and Jax and Hou will be a problem for the forseeable future. So I'm reserving judgment on Luck for now as being able to take us to the promised land.

 

I'm looking forward to the season though!

I gave you a LIKE because that is a fair Post. Of course Luck has to prove himself again but I just don't like it when people discredit his wins in the past. He was responsible for most of the wins we had considering of the Coaching and Running game he has had. When people go as far to say we only beat Denver in the Playoffs because Peyton was playing injured is downright laughable. Peyton looked fine on the opening drive when he put Denver up 7-0. Denver's Defense was also completely healthy. Von Miller played last I looked and we were an 8 point underdog so apparently Vegas thought we had almost no chance to win either.

[Shadow_Creek]

8 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'll say this. I'm lower on Luck than most of the forum, but for me, it's not just because he hasn't beaten NE. It's because he hasn't beaten Pitt either. It's nearly impossible to get through the playoffs without facing either. Add Jax to the mix, who is a very bad matchup now, and I don't know if we can win a SB even improving the roster. We may just have to wait out NE and Pitt before we have a shot at a SB, and Luck could be 35 by then and on the decline. 

 

People are mentioning his wins against Seattle and GB. For me, those are wins against NFC teams. Not to say they weren't impressive, but we aren't facing them in the playoffs unless it's the SB, so beating them won't mean a lot in the long run. Beating teams like NE, Pitt, Jax, and Hou is what matters now as we will have to face them in the playoffs almost every year now. If Luck beats them consistently, then that's our path to the SB. He hasn't done it with NE and Pitt yet, and Jax and Hou will be a problem for the forseeable future. So I'm reserving judgment on Luck for now as being able to take us to the promised land.

 

I'm looking forward to the season though!

nah pags could'nt beat new england and pags could'nt beat pitts. because of his insufficient play calling. But i believe frank knows a way and under him luck will be a whole new QB

[boo2202]

4 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'll say this. I'm lower on Luck than most of the forum, but for me, it's not just because he hasn't beaten NE. It's because he hasn't beaten Pitt either. It's nearly impossible to get through the playoffs without facing either. Add Jax to the mix, who is a very bad matchup now, and I don't know if we can win a SB even improving the roster. We may just have to wait out NE and Pitt before we have a shot at a SB, and Luck could be 35 by then and on the decline. 

 

People are mentioning his wins against Seattle and GB. For me, those are wins against NFC teams. Not to say they weren't impressive, but we aren't facing them in the playoffs unless it's the SB, so beating them won't mean a lot in the long run. Beating teams like NE, Pitt, Jax, and Hou is what matters now as we will have to face them in the playoffs almost every year now. If Luck beats them consistently, then that's our path to the SB. He hasn't done it with NE and Pitt yet, and Jax and Hou will be a problem for the forseeable future. So I'm reserving judgment on Luck for now as being able to take us to the promised land.

 

I'm looking forward to the season though!

Don't know many QB's that would beat Pitt or NE with pagano as their head coach. I really liked chuck as a person seemed like a great guy. Add in the fact that Pitt has always had more talent on both sides of the ball and NE has always had bill. This coaching staff is a breath of fresh air and Ballard seems to not have his head up his butt like grigson. It will take another draft or two but there's more promise now than before. Brady and Ben are close to going out and jags will have cap/bortles  trouble. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I gave you a LIKE because that is a fair Post. Of course Luck has to prove himself again but I just don't like it when people discredit his wins in the past. He was responsible for most of the wins we had considering of the Coaching and Running game he has had. When people go as far to say we only beat Denver in the Playoffs because Peyton was playing injured is downright laughable. Peyton looked fine on the opening drive when he put Denver up 7-0. Denver's Defense was also completely healthy. Von Miller played last I looked and we were an 8 point underdog so apparently Vegas thought we had almost no chance to win either.

I don't discredit the playoffs wins at all. Luck carried the team ahead of what they should of done at the time. He overperformed his expectations. Now, 5 years later, I expect him to do it again though. He's in his prime. I agree people do discredit his wins though (mostly outside the fanbase). Luckily now, we should have better coaching, a better team, better GM, and Luck is healthy. Team to get this done! Brady and Ben should be close to declining. I think we can still get a SB win in the next 3 years, but we need some Luck, and Andrew Luck has to play like the elite QB we know he can be and carry this team.

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I don't discredit the playoffs wins at all. Luck carried the team ahead of what they should of done at the time. He overperformed his expectations. Now, 5 years later, I expect him to do it again though. He's in his prime. I agree people do discredit his wins though (mostly outside the fanbase). Luckily now, we should have better coaching, a better team, better GM, and Luck is healthy. Team to get this done! Brady and Ben should be close to declining. I think we can still get a SB win in the next 3 years, but we need some Luck, and Andrew Luck has to play like the elite QB we know he can be and carry this team.

The Pats maybe have this year and next year after that they will be toast IMO. I cant see Tommy playing more than a couple of more years. Father time catches everyone. Pitt is already showing signs of getting worse, they are beatable. The Jags are going to be a pain in the butt for a few years, but they still have Bortles at QB so they are also beatable.

[Yoshinator]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

The Pats maybe have this year and next year after that they will be toast IMO. I cant see Tommy playing more than a couple of more years. Father time catches everyone. Pitt is already showing signs of getting worse, they are beatable. The Jags are going to be a pain the butt for a few years, but they still have Bortles at QB so they are also beatable.

Yep, we just have to keep stacking draft classes. If we can hit on around half of our picks every year in some shape or form (starters or backup depth), then we can eventually catch up to the rest of the league. We are just so bereft of talent right now, that any improvements are a big deal, and training camp is much more exciting for us as fans then most other teams. I'm hoping to see a lot of promise from both of Ballard's draft classes in the next couple weeks.

[NorthernBlue]

40 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'll say this. I'm lower on Luck than most of the forum, but for me, it's not just because he hasn't beaten NE. It's because he hasn't beaten Pitt either. It's nearly impossible to get through the playoffs without facing either. Add Jax to the mix, who is a very bad matchup now, and I don't know if we can win a SB even improving the roster. We may just have to wait out NE and Pitt before we have a shot at a SB, and Luck could be 35 by then and on the decline. 

 

People are mentioning his wins against Seattle and GB. For me, those are wins against NFC teams. Not to say they weren't impressive, but we aren't facing them in the playoffs unless it's the SB, so beating them won't mean a lot in the long run. Beating teams like NE, Pitt, Jax, and Hou is what matters now as we will have to face them in the playoffs almost every year now. If Luck beats them consistently, then that's our path to the SB. He hasn't done it with NE and Pitt yet, and Jax and Hou will be a problem for the forseeable future. So I'm reserving judgment on Luck for now as being able to take us to the promised land.

 

I'm looking forward to the season though!

Luck has lost to Pittsburgh only once. And he had over 400 yards and 3 tds that game. And he hasn’t faced beefed up Jacksonville yet. 

 

In terms of AFC juggernauts, Denver was pretty damn good 2012-2016 and he beat em 3 times out of 5. KC has had some good years 2012-2016 and he’s beaten em twice in 3 tries. And the Bengals were good from like 2012-2015 and he beat em twice in 3 tries.

 

Overall though the AFC hasn’t been as strong as the NFC so it’s hard to say.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, NorthernBlue said:

Luck has lost to Pittsburgh only once. And he had over 400 yards and 3 tds that game. And he hasn’t faced beefed up Jacksonville yet. 

 

In terms of AFC juggernauts, Denver was pretty damn good 2012-2016 and he beat em 3 times out of 5. KC has had some good years 2012-2016 and he’s beaten em twice in 3 tries. And the Bengals were good from like 2012-2015 and he beat em twice in 3 tries.

 

Overall though the AFC hasn’t been as strong as the NFC so it’s hard to say.

Good points, Luck also beat the Ravens when they were good. I think that was in 2013?

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NorthernBlue said:

Luck has lost to Pittsburgh only once. And he had over 400 yards and 3 tds that game. And he hasn’t faced beefed up Jacksonville yet. 

 

In terms of AFC juggernauts, Denver was pretty damn good 2012-2016 and he beat em 3 times out of 5. KC has had some good years 2012-2016 and he’s beaten em twice in 3 tries. And the Bengals were good from like 2012-2015 and he beat em twice in 3 tries.

 

Overall though the AFC hasn’t been as strong as the NFC so it’s hard to say.

My reasoning for not thinking Denver is a huge deal is because Peyton Manning is gone now. They do have an upgrade in Keenum, Royce Freeman at RB, and Bradley Chubb now, but I believe the Chargers are the class of the AFC West now, and this is coming from someone who lives in Colorado. The Chargers will be a unique team that we may face in the wildcard round should we sneak into the playoffs, and I believe they present somewhat of a random problem on offense and defense. It was impressive how Luck had Denver (and Manning's) number, but today, it's irrelevant to our playoff chances as they have a whole new offense and somewhat new defense. Jax will determine how we finish record-wise as well. Can Luck compete with them now?

[NorthernBlue]

58 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My reasoning for not thinking Denver is a huge deal is because Peyton Manning is gone now. They do have an upgrade in Keenum, Royce Freeman at RB, and Bradley Chubb now, but I believe the Chargers are the class of the AFC West now, and this is coming from someone who lives in Colorado. The Chargers will be a unique team that we may face in the wildcard round should we sneak into the playoffs, and I believe they present somewhat of a random problem on offense and defense. It was impressive how Luck had Denver (and Manning's) number, but today, it's irrelevant to our playoff chances as they have a whole new offense and somewhat new defense. Jax will determine how we finish record-wise as well. Can Luck compete with them now?

Well yeah Denver isn’t a threat now, but when they were, Luck was more than up for the task of defeating them, which is to my point of him being able to beat really good AFC teams.

 

But you’re right. That’s the past. Let’s see how he does this year. The only AFC juggernaut we really face is NE (I refuse to call Jacksonville a juggernaught after one 10-6 season). 

 

We do face lots of good quarterbacks though. Brady, Carr, Wentz, Watson, Prescott, Smith etc. Suffice to say if Luck gets out of that with a .500 or better record, I’d be quite delighted.