Is Cutting Manning Accepting 2 Losing Seasons?

[oldunclemark]

Its true.

We have been spoiled by success..

..but there's a hard reality in the air here this week and it says that breaking up the old core (Mathis, Freeney, Clark, Saturday, Wayne, Manning, Addai) and starting a rookie quarterback may take us to the dark side of the moon..

Dallas is still high profile...but what do they have....one playoff win in 17 years..

I think its insane to 'move on' from a proven winner like Peyton Manning...if he's even 90% healthy

So many here are eager to start over and start from scratch but we dont know where 'scratch' is.

We haven been there in this century.

I want to keep the core together for 2 more years...I've said that.

BUT..I admit there's a chance Irsay does not agree.

Soem of you see Manning's injury, our cap room struggles and Andrew Luck's availability as a 'perfect storm' of opportunity/...

So go there. ...If we 'start over'...If we start a rookie QB and retool (no Saturday no Wayne. No Clark. No Garcon) at the offensive skill positions...

..what is your guess at what will happen.?

I know 2012 will not go well. That's the NFL. You cant do a makeover and make the playoffs with a rookie QB. (maybe you think we can?) But 2013, too? What about 2014?

Are you ready for that?. Its easy to SAY you are but remember last fall??

Is the Indy fan base going to saddle up and ride with us through the 'black forest' of 6-10??

Once you go 'black' could be years before you come back.

I dont care about 'being competitive'

If we tear it up...when can we reasonably EXPECT (not hope) to go to the playoffs again?

[SilentHill]

well we already have one losing season under the belt.

I count last season as a win, as I was rooting for the colts to lose.

We can only go up from here

[eli4625]

Change is going to bring a dip in performance its the nature of it but the future sure looks bright...

[ruksak]

Given your parameters for this (No Manning, no Wayne, no Saturday, no Clark, no Garcon) the I'm not seeing where we get offensive scoring capability unless we pull a great running game out of our rears.

Under this light, I see us emulating the Panthers 2011 season. A 2-14 team the year prior. Selecting the hottest QB in the draft. Finishing the next year with an encouraging and exciting rookie season, much improvement across the board yet a lacking 6-10 finish with much reason to believe in the prospect of success for the coming year.

6-10

[oldunclemark]

Given your parameters for this (No Manning, no Wayne, no Saturday, no Clark, no Garcon) the I'm not seeing where we get offensive scoring capability unless we pull a great running game out of our rears.

Under this light, I see us emulating the Panthers 2011 season. A 2-14 team the year prior. Selecting the hottest QB in the draft. Finishing the next year with an encouraging and exciting rookie season, much improvement across the board yet a lacking 6-10 finish with much reason to believe in the prospect of success for the coming year.

6-10

I guess I am assuming that Wayne and Saturady will not rrtrun without Manning...

Clark would be cut since he works so well with Manning...but Tamme might fit Luck better...

Garcon..its surprising he hasn't signed yet...

That's pretty much where we'd be ..with no number one draft choices until 2013.

. If that future is bright..I need new glasses... :whatever:

[betheafan41]

Its true.

We have been spoiled by success..

..but there's a hard reality in the air here this week and it says that breaking up the old core (Mathis, Freeney, Clark, Saturday, Wayne, Manning, Addai) and starting a rookie quarterback may take us to the dark side of the moon..

Dallas is still high profile...but what do they have....one playoff win in 17 years..

I think its insane to 'move on' from a proven winner like Peyton Manning...if he's even 90% healthy

So many here are eager to start over and start from scratch but we dont know where 'scratch' is.

We haven been there in this century.

I want to keep the core together for 2 more years...I've said that.

BUT..I admit there's a chance Irsay does not agree.

Soem of you see Manning's injury, our cap room struggles and Andrew Luck's availability as a 'perfect storm' of opportunity/...

So go there. ...If we 'start over'...If we start a rookie QB and retool (no Saturday no Wayne. No Clark. No Garcon) at the offensive skill positions...

..what is your guess at what will happen.?

I know 2012 will not go well. That's the NFL. You cant do a makeover and make the playoffs with a rookie QB. (maybe you think we can?) But 2013, too? What about 2014?

Are you ready for that?. Its easy to SAY you are but remember last fall??

Is the Indy fan base going to saddle up and ride with us through the 'black forest' of 6-10??

Once you go 'black' could be years before you come back.

I dont care about 'being competitive'

If we tear it up...when can we reasonably EXPECT (not hope) to go to the playoffs again?

ummm clark will be there for 3 more years....and i have no problem with the colts winning 3 or4 games next year....means another possible top 5 pick to try to rebuild the defense with (LB Mantei Teo from Notre Dame will be a first rounder and hes a beast).....keep in mind, the colts drafted manning went 3-13 his first year, the year before that the colts had the worst record in the NFL. 98 draft pick was used on manning, 99 draft pick was used on Edge. two losing seasons in a row wont hurt if the outcome of it is winning.

[Portage Coltfans]

Its true.

We have been spoiled by success..

..but there's a hard reality in the air here this week and it says that breaking up the old core (Mathis, Freeney, Clark, Saturday, Wayne, Manning, Addai) and starting a rookie quarterback may take us to the dark side of the moon..

Dallas is still high profile...but what do they have....one playoff win in 17 years..

I think its insane to 'move on' from a proven winner like Peyton Manning...if he's even 90% healthy

So many here are eager to start over and start from scratch but we dont know where 'scratch' is.

We haven been there in this century.

I want to keep the core together for 2 more years...I've said that.

BUT..I admit there's a chance Irsay does not agree.

Soem of you see Manning's injury, our cap room struggles and Andrew Luck's availability as a 'perfect storm' of opportunity/...

So go there. ...If we 'start over'...If we start a rookie QB and retool (no Saturday no Wayne. No Clark. No Garcon) at the offensive skill positions...

..what is your guess at what will happen.?

I know 2012 will not go well. That's the NFL. You cant do a makeover and make the playoffs with a rookie QB. (maybe you think we can?) But 2013, too? What about 2014?

Are you ready for that?. Its easy to SAY you are but remember last fall??

Is the Indy fan base going to saddle up and ride with us through the 'black forest' of 6-10??

Once you go 'black' could be years before you come back.

I dont care about 'being competitive'

If we tear it up...when can we reasonably EXPECT (not hope) to go to the playoffs again?

no, it's 3-5 losing seasons

[jskinnz]

I don't accept the premise that releasing Manning means automatically accepting losing seasons. I am well aware of what Manning has done for the team and how he carried them at times. But there have been teams that have made worst to first type of moves. It is not uncommon in the NFL. We have no idea about the new staff. They may be great talent evaluators and developers. There could be some home runs with the picks they make, not the least of which could be the new QB.

[oldunclemark]

ummm clark will be there for 3 more years....and i have no problem with the colts winning 3 or4 games next year....means another possible top 5 pick to try to rebuild the defense with (LB Mantei Teo from Notre Dame will be a first rounder and hes a beast).....keep in mind, the colts drafted manning went 3-13 his first year, the year before that the colts had the worst record in the NFL. 98 draft pick was used on manning, 99 draft pick was used on Edge. two losing seasons in a row wont hurt if the outcome of it is winning.

Clark cold be cut if Manning does not stay (he could be cut if he does but that's not likely to me)

You have 'no problem" with 3 or 4 wins.

2 losing seasons wont hurt?

There's no guarantee the outcome is winning.

But I understand what you're saying.....reconstructive surgery

[BuildtheMonster1285]

Its true.

We have been spoiled by success..

..but there's a hard reality in the air here this week and it says that breaking up the old core (Mathis, Freeney, Clark, Saturday, Wayne, Manning, Addai) and starting a rookie quarterback may take us to the dark side of the moon..

Dallas is still high profile...but what do they have....one playoff win in 17 years..

I think its insane to 'move on' from a proven winner like Peyton Manning...if he's even 90% healthy

So many here are eager to start over and start from scratch but we dont know where 'scratch' is.

We haven been there in this century.

I want to keep the core together for 2 more years...I've said that.

BUT..I admit there's a chance Irsay does not agree.

Soem of you see Manning's injury, our cap room struggles and Andrew Luck's availability as a 'perfect storm' of opportunity/...

So go there. ...If we 'start over'...If we start a rookie QB and retool (no Saturday no Wayne. No Clark. No Garcon) at the offensive skill positions...

..what is your guess at what will happen.?

I know 2012 will not go well. That's the NFL. You cant do a makeover and make the playoffs with a rookie QB. (maybe you think we can?) But 2013, too? What about 2014?

Are you ready for that?. Its easy to SAY you are but remember last fall??

Is the Indy fan base going to saddle up and ride with us through the 'black forest' of 6-10??

Once you go 'black' could be years before you come back.

I dont care about 'being competitive'

If we tear it up...when can we reasonably EXPECT (not hope) to go to the playoffs again?

Even if we keep all those players on the team and peyton, we could still go 6-10. There is never a guarantee that just because the players are good the team will win. I think the Patriots and Cowboys are pretty good examples of this.

[oldunclemark]

Even if we keep all those players on the team and peyton, we could still go 6-10. There is never a guarantee that just because the players are good the team will win. I think the Patriots and Cowboys are pretty good examples of this.

That's just unlikely...we were in the playoffs EVERY YEAR with those guys plus Peyton

..and in 2010 with a patched up bunch...plus Peyton

There's no logical basis to say we'd be 6-10 with Manning at 100%.

We never were before (except one time in the last century)

[CCH]

With a rookie QB, new coaches, new defensive scheme and possibly losing our best 2 WRs I think another 2-14 season or 3-13 is possible. If we do and get the #1 pick we can trade it for a kings ransom because the demand for Matt Barkley is going to be thru the roof and we can surround Luck without a lot of talent.

[oldunclemark]

Andy Dalton was 9-8 with Cincinnatti last season.

Could we be 9-8 with Andrew in 2012>?

Is that possible?

[UndecidedFrog]

Andy Dalton was 9-8 with Cincinnatti last season.

Could we be 9-8 with Andrew in 2012>?

Is that possible?

If you surround Luck with similar talent on both offense and defense and STs, you would expect to do better than 9-8.

[jskinnz]

Andy Dalton was 9-8 with Cincinnatti last season.

Could we be 9-8 with Andrew in 2012>?

Is that possible?

Why isn't it possible?

[oldunclemark]

Why isn't it possible?

I ask the questions here 'J'

Seriously, I'm looking for a best case scenario...

has any rookie QB ever done better than 9-8...Joe Flacco?

[Andy]

I don't think Luck is going to come in and put up Manning numbers and make this team SB contenders, but I'm convinced that if he started this year, he would get the Colts to an 8-8 record. He's the most pro-ready QB since Manning and everything about him looks better than some NFL QBs. He would come in and do a good job, but Manning would do a much better job (obviously).

[FireJimCaldwell]

I ask the questions here 'J'

Seriously, I'm looking for a best case scenario...

has any rookie QB ever done better than 9-8...Joe Flacco?

Roethlisberger went 14-1 as a rookie, and the Steelers lost in the AFCG.

A huge difference between the team he was playing on and what Andrew Luck. Luck will be asked to do more than Roethlisberger was as a rookie because BBR had an outstanding running game, and the #1 defense..

[Gavin]

Tamme is solid Clark is not a must have, Garcon Id like to keep despite his drops only cause no real good chance Collie or Gonzalez will be healthy behind him, can make a darn good case to let Gonzalez go its a pretty good lock he will be riding the bench this season do to injury, as for the Manning, Luck situation, sure if we keep Manning we cover up holes we have again like we have done his whole career but I dont see that as smart, the smart thing to do is not take the unreasonable cap hit of 28 million which I guarantee Manning wont renegotiate (it simply would have happened by now) besides that if and probably when we draft Luck Manning could very well get all the practice snaps like hes done for 14 years, maybe he wouldnt, but obviously we have seen what it does if a quarterback doesnt at least get to practice with the first team offense ( Curtis Painter anyone) this will be tough for a couple years but will work in the long run, yes tough times ahead Id say but name a franchise that doesnt go through them thats gone in transition we could always resign Manning and have to release a whole ton of players......really a no brainer, the colts covered up holes for years with Manning its time to them plug them holes, like the post above me says teams win cause of team play not cause one player save your butt constantly look to last season to see where that will get ya, as accepting defeat for a few seasons, ask Luck, I think he would see that as an insult towards him or RGIII even, guys like that want to impress now, win now, Manning wants PAID now, tick tock tick tick I hear nothing about him wanting to renegotiate...the new era is soon to be in full affect

[Steve Waugh]

Depends on where Peyton plays in a lot of ways.

If Peyton plays in the same division, Colts have to get wild card to go to playoffs. On that case, forget playoffs till Manning retires.

If Peyton plays in NFC, there is an outside chance of playoffs in the 2nd year ( If Luck is what he is talked to be ).

[Jaric]

I know Manning's a miracle worker and all, but as I'm looking over this roster I'm not sure even if he did come back we'd have instant success like everyone assumes.

We have A LOT of holes right now. At pretty much every position.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I know Manning's a miracle worker and all, but as I'm looking over this roster I'm not sure even if he did come back we'd have instant success like everyone assumes.

We have A LOT of holes right now. At pretty much every position.

Pampers has covered up a lot (insert term of your choice here) for years.

[oldunclemark]

I know Manning's a miracle worker and all, but as I'm looking over this roster I'm not sure even if he did come back we'd have instant success like everyone assumes.

We have A LOT of holes right now. At pretty much every position.

really?

[jskinnz]

I ask the questions here 'J'

Seriously, I'm looking for a best case scenario...

has any rookie QB ever done better than 9-8...Joe Flacco?

Joe Flacco made the AFCCG as a rookie.

Sanchez did the same as a rookie QB.

FJC mentioned Big Ben. The point is it has been done. Now those were different circumstances than what Luck will face, but it has been done.

[jskinnz]

really?

Yes. Gaping holes.

[insaneColtsfan]

I know Manning's a miracle worker and all, but as I'm looking over this roster I'm not sure even if he did come back we'd have instant success like everyone assumes.

We have A LOT of holes right now. At pretty much every position.

Exactly what i have been saying for a while now. With what the Colts will have for players when the season starts i do not think even Manning can make the playoffs this year with the Colts.

A new defensive mindset an offensive line that may not be able to give Peyton time to throw and a sub par running game? I don't think there is a QB in the league that can make a winning season with that let alone make the playoffs.

The future for the Colts looks decent if Luck is as good as everyone expects him to be, if Peyton goes to another team there will be cap room to use in filling some of the glaring holes that were exposed last season but that is going to take time it will not happen this year or maybe even next year but it will happen and when it does the Colts will be great again.

But anyone who thinks that the Colts are a playoff team in what looks like the likely scenario this year is fooling themselves.

[Jaric]

really?

Yes really. And that has nothing to do with how I feel about Manning for the record.

Our problem is that our team was built around a select few superstar players. The issue now is that they're all getting older and we can't afford some of them (or probably most of them) so the holes they covered up are being exposed.

[WSO]

Regardless whether Manning or Luck is under center I personally dont see the Colts as contenders for at least 2 years. I know we aren't going to the SB with Luck as a rookie or even the playoffs but I'm not concerned for the short term, moreso for the long term. I'll give up a couple of losing to average seasons for possible long term success.

[The Fish]

I'm sure the team will emerge after a warm up season with Luck and another decent draft. A lot of questions about our roster aren't resolved and the draft hasn't happend. If coupled with last seasons 1&2 pick being injured often, there are so many things we don't really know about the teams identity right now. It would be hard to say for sure what we even are, and the odds because of that say next season is .500ish ball, but after that, were in order to be competitive if we re tool well.

We keep Peyton, we get the wild card next season and we avoid the inevitability of a depleting roster, due to keeping Manning on the Payroll. If that is worth it, and I partly feel the same, we set up growing pains later. Good points on both sides. It'll be intersting.

[Boiler_Colt]

As much as I hate it when the Colts lose, it may be nice to see if a team can overachieve for once after years of underachieving in the postseason.

[manningstheman]

ummm clark will be there for 3 more years....and i have no problem with the colts winning 3 or4 games next year....means another possible top 5 pick to try to rebuild the defense with (LB Mantei Teo from Notre Dame will be a first rounder and hes a beast).....keep in mind, the colts drafted manning went 3-13 his first year, the year before that the colts had the worst record in the NFL. 98 draft pick was used on manning, 99 draft pick was used on Edge. two losing seasons in a row wont hurt if the outcome of it is winning.

Different senerio then in 98. We were so bad for so many years before 98, take away a 2 decent years with Captian Comeback, that the team had alot of early draft picks playing and was bound to get better. We are in a position now that if you get rid of our key players players, especially our star QB, we are going to be rebuilding for years. IMO

[Vance]

Andy Dalton was 9-8 with Cincinnatti last season.

Could we be 9-8 with Andrew in 2012>?

Is that possible?

Why isn't it possible?

Because at this juncture, the Bengals have a much better team than the Colts do.

[The Fish]

Because at this juncture, the Bengals have a much better team than the Colts do.

Doubt it.

[Vance]

Doubt it.

Be serious.

[The Fish]

Be serious.

Ok, they're not going to break .500, serious.

[Vance]

Ok, they're not going to break .500, serious.

...The Colts?

Or do you not understand what 'at this juncture' means.

[Malakai432]

I think people are going to be surprised if the Colts have a solid draft and acquire some decent-good FA's. I also really like the new coaching staff and it looks like some veterans will be staying on the team, especially on defense. I don't buy into the years of bad team mumbo jumbo, however I do think next year will be a tough one. If you have a good organization that's willing to do whatever it takes to get back on track, teams can get back on their feet fairly quickly now.

It's not like we aren't going to still have multiple pro bowler players on the team, more so on defense.

[Vance]

I think people are going to be surprised if the Colts have a solid draft and acquire some decent-good FA's.

I wouldn't, you guys have the best picks!

[Malakai432]

I wouldn't, you guys have the best picks!

:pullhair:

[Balzer40]

Its amazing to me that people are having such a hard time with the thoughts of having another bad season or 2. It happens to every team at some point. If it were up to the fans our roster we be stuck with a bunch of forty something yr. old has beens and praying they could actually keep making us a super bowl contender every yr.. Players get old just like the rest of the world and teams have to decide for the fans when its time to move on because fans are clearly incapable of making rational decisions when it comes to their hero's.