Boston Herald - Peyton Manning Is Throwing Well, Improving- On Pace To Be Possibly Full Strength By May

[eli4625]

I am not sure what it matters, the best move for the Colts long term is still to release Peyton and go with Luck and a new overall strategy.

[supremecoltsfan300]

I dont think Irsay really wants Peyton. If he could get him cheap, then sure. But Irsay at this moment is just trying to win the pr battle so he wont be blamed for when peyton is released. Peyton wants to play four more years. With luck behind him he knows that isnt going to happen.

[BrentMc11]

So, where were Manning and Reggie throwing? Not sure if I understand the rules fully, but it sounds like Manning can be with the trainers since he flunked his exit physical. But, I would think since Reggie didn't, he doesn't have the access to the Colts facility. Just curious.

NASCAR's wind tunnel.....Peyton's arm was huge.....and Reggie had a lot of drops.

[BrentMc11]

I dont think Irsay really wants Peyton. If he could get him cheap, then sure. But Irsay at this moment is just trying to win the pr battle so he wont be blamed for when peyton is released. Peyton wants to play four more years. With luck behind him he knows that isnt going to happen.

If you were a general in the US Army going to battle, would you pay 28 million for a Sherman Tank when the newest Abrams battle tank came off of the line? Manning is no Sherman, but wounded in battle.....28 freaking million....one week away....

[UndecidedFrog]

March 1st-7th - Have Peyton take the team physical and deem him ready or not. Evaluate his progress over the week if he doesn't pass the physical right now.

I don't think it is just the team physical that needs passing. PM needs to show he can make all the NFL throws at NFL velocity. A RB can pass the team physical, but the team is not asking the RB to play QB. If PM cannot throw at the NFL level, what do you suggest the team do?

March 8th - Talk with him and explain the situation with the cap and what the team is doing to try and field a championship caliber team. By seeing if he would take a more cap-friendly deal that is incentive based. If he's as committed to the Colts as he wants the Colts to be committed to him he should be on board for this idea.

If he isnt budging as far as restructuring goes then simply pay him the money and hope that other players will take less $$ to play for Peyton. (Reggie Wayne, Garcon, Saturday...)

If you pay him the $28MM option bonus, and he does not improve back to his form, and decides to retire, or is cut, the team will be hit with a $38.4MM dead cap space, or just about 1/3 of the total team cap. This will basically gut the team for several years. Are you recommending that the team do this?

Once you have the Peyton-Saga out of the way you can now start to cut/sign players and field a team for the 2012/13 season.

I'm not going to go into detail as far as contracts and money for players. (In the aspect that players might possibly be willing to take discounts (hoping)).

Once were on board the Peyton train, we should listen to the Rams offers for the #2 pick in the draft.

If everyone is ready to sell the farm for Griffin then they will be willing to do the same for Luck if not maybe some better quality picks.

If we trade down the draft to say the Browns and get their 4th and 22nd plus others. We can very well try to pick up a QB later in the 1st round this season.. or use top picks for next year on a QB since I think the Browns picks would be high next season.

That way you don't have to deal with having Luck or Griffin on the bench when Peyton is still good for another year/s.

That was the same exact thought before PM went down to injury last season. We didn't deal with having a good QB2 in Painter, instead we got stop-gap measures with Collins, Orlovsky. What if PM cannot go in 2012? Do we repeat 2011?

[oldunclemark]

I am not sure what it matters, the best move for the Colts long term is still to release Peyton and go with Luck and a new overall strategy.

But in the short term..its best to have them both...

We are a top QB away from a return to the playoffs

...most likely all our free agents are not leaving..(remember the tag) and we have young injured players returning (Ijalana, Nevis)

returning..

Sign Manning..,draft Luck and then we arent in the hole if Manning isnt ready..

This is what Irsay originally hinted he wanted to do,..

[Peyton and Eli fan]

But in the short term..its best to have them both...

We are a top QB away from a return to the playoffs

...most likely all our free agents are not leaving..(remember the tag) and we have young injured players returning (Ijalana, Nevis)

returning..

Sign Manning..,draft Luck and then we arent in the hole if Manning isnt ready..

This is what Irsay originally hinted he wanted to do,..

What do you mean by remember the tag? Aren't they only allowed to tag one player?

I think Irsay would love to have Manning for one year and then transition. But, I don't get the feeling that Manning thinks he can only play for one more year.

[vitoaf27]

I did not mean my previous post as a dig against you. You are the messenger, not the author.

I was merely pointing out a bit of interesting human psychology, which I found somewhat amusing, and somewhat sad.

You do the same thing dude.

[Busta]

I don't think it is just the team physical that needs passing. PM needs to show he can make all the NFL throws at NFL velocity. A RB can pass the team physical, but the team is not asking the RB to play QB. If PM cannot throw at the NFL level, what do you suggest the team do?

When I say team physical I'm talking about PM's workout that will let Irsay decide if he is healthy or not. Passing for extended period of time, making certain throws, run the 2 min offense at a fast pace.

Im basing everything I have said off him being ready in a few months like all the "positive feedback news". If we cut PM and he is game shape ready, then we get nothing and other teams get PM as well as the rest of our team falling apart. (By falling apart I mean current players that are deciding if they want to stay with Peyton or go elsewhere.)

If he's a shell of his former self and there aren't any signs of improvement then that's an entirely different situation. (Again this post was with him returning to a Peyton-like state.)

If you pay him the $28MM option bonus, and he does not improve back to his form, and decides to retire, or is cut, the team will be hit with a $38.4MM dead cap space, or just about 1/3 of the total team cap. This will basically gut the team for several years. Are you recommending that the team do this?

I was never entirely sure on the "CAP" aspect of if he stays goes retires... I know were paying a hefty price to let him go and a hefty+ price if we keep him.

But I believe if we let him go we lose more of our team than if we keep him, since people will be more willing to resign.

If you cut Peyton your basically gutting your team because no one is going to come back unless you pay them. Our WRs that arent signed would leave in a heartbeat since we dont have the funds to pay them what they would want to just play.

If there's no Peyton Colts offense will become mediocre compared to what we have fielded the entire career of PM, more money is going to the defense.

That was the same exact thought before PM went down to injury last season. We didn't deal with having a good QB2 in Painter, instead we got stop-gap measures with Collins, Orlovsky. What if PM cannot go in 2012? Do we repeat 2011?

Any player can go down at anytime. The Colts not having a decent backup for the career of PM is managements fault. They have been rolling the dice every single game putting all their eggs in PM's basket. The Colts use the excuse that they didn't know how much Peyton made up the team so they didn't realize how much they needed a backup. No excuses.

If Brees goes down what happens to them.. if Rivers goes down.. if Brady goes down what happens to them.. most of the teams know to have a backup so they have groomed or looked for some cheap talent.

Sorgi being a backup is a joke.. every pre-season game he played in was a joke.. every blowout game he played in he was a joke..

Instead of looking for a decent backup they just keep the guy that "knows the system" and hope PM doesn't get injured.

Tell me this.. If the Colts record is 6-3 and PM goes down do you want a QB like Sorgi that "Knows the system" but cant throw the ball or win a game for that matter. Or would you rather have a decent talent backing him up that doesnt know the system but atleast give you the chance at winning.

Sorry if I took the discussion elsewhere..

[Restored]

What do you mean by remember the tag? Aren't they only allowed to tag one player?

I think Irsay would love to have Manning for one year and then transition. But, I don't get the feeling that Manning thinks he can only play for one more year.

You don't know that. Manning had already showed signs of "slowing" down by Manning standards in 09 and 10. Yes he won the MVP in 09' but that was a stastical decline if you look at his previous years. I agree with Uncle here in that you have Manning come back with Luck on the roster as well. Have Manning win another title and retire after this coming year as the greatest to ever play the game.

[UndecidedFrog]

When I say team physical I'm talking about PM's workout that will let Irsay decide if he is healthy or not. Passing for extended period of time, making certain throws, run the 2 min offense at a fast pace.

Im basing everything I have said off him being ready in a few months like all the "positive feedback news". If we cut PM and he is game shape ready, then we get nothing and other teams get PM as well as the rest of our team falling apart. (By falling apart I mean current players that are deciding if they want to stay with Peyton or go elsewhere.)

If he's a shell of his former self and there aren't any signs of improvement then that's an entirely different situation. (Again this post was with him returning to a Peyton-like state.)

If he is at 70% of his former self, what do you recommend the team to do?

I was never entirely sure on the "CAP" aspect of if he stays goes retires... I know were paying a hefty price to let him go and a hefty+ price if we keep him.

But I believe if we let him go we lose more of our team than if we keep him, since people will be more willing to resign.

If you cut Peyton your basically gutting your team because no one is going to come back unless you pay them. Our WRs that arent signed would leave in a heartbeat since we dont have the funds to pay them what they would want to just play.

If there's no Peyton Colts offense will become mediocre compared to what we have fielded the entire career of PM, more money is going to the defense.

Now that you know of the potential consequences of the cap hit if we keep him, and he cannot play, what do you recommend the team to do?

Any player can go down at anytime. The Colts not having a decent backup for the career of PM is managements fault. They have been rolling the dice every single game putting all their eggs in PM's basket. The Colts use the excuse that they didn't know how much Peyton made up the team so they didn't realize how much they needed a backup. No excuses.

If Brees goes down what happens to them.. if Rivers goes down.. if Brady goes down what happens to them.. most of the teams know to have a backup so they have groomed or looked for some cheap talent.

Sorgi being a backup is a joke.. every pre-season game he played in was a joke.. every blowout game he played in he was a joke..

Instead of looking for a decent backup they just keep the guy that "knows the system" and hope PM doesn't get injured.

Tell me this.. If the Colts record is 6-3 and PM goes down do you want a QB like Sorgi that "Knows the system" but cant throw the ball or win a game for that matter. Or would you rather have a decent talent backing him up that doesnt know the system but atleast give you the chance at winning.

Sorry if I took the discussion elsewhere..

Cheap talent was Painter, whom we acquired in the 6th round 2 years ago. How did that work out for us?

[supremecoltsfan300]

You don't know that. Manning had already showed signs of "slowing" down by Manning standards in 09 and 10. Yes he won the MVP in 09' but that was a stastical decline if you look at his previous years. I agree with Uncle here in that you have Manning come back with Luck on the roster as well. Have Manning win another title and retire after this coming year as the greatest to ever play the game.

Have to disagree Manning had two of his best seasons in 09 and 10. Also it's quite possible Manning was dealing with the neck injury during those years since he took the vicious hit against the redskins. Those years manning was also dealing wih new receivers so there was a learning curve still going on, but he was still very productive.

[Restored]

Have to disagree Manning had two of his best seasons in 09 and 10. Also it's quite possible Manning was dealing with the neck injury during those years since he took the vicious hit against the redskins. Those years manning was also dealing wih new receivers so there was a learning curve still going on, but he was still very productive.

I mean Manning did pass more yardage than ever before in 2010 but that could be attributed to a number of reasons. 09' Manning had a higher INT number than in years past as well. All in all I hope to see Peyton back next year and I'm quite sure we will find out next week.

[supremecoltsfan300]

I mean Manning did pass more yardage than ever before in 2010 but that could be attributed to a number of reasons. 09' Manning had a higher INT number than in years past as well. All in all I hope to see Peyton back next year and I'm quite sure we will find out next week.

Manning had a banged up receiving core in 2010 as well, and in 09 he went undefeated and those interceptions weren't costly ones. To a degree ints should be looked as incompletions when the int doesnt result in a diasterous play. And like you, hope Peyton is back next year and we'll find out in a week (probably at 11:59 am on March 7th, lol).

[Busta]

If he is at 70% of his former self, what do you recommend the team to do?

I hate %'s because everyone throws them around like they know what they mean.. It was like around Superbowl time and someone reported he was around 80%.. (Dont hold me to that not quite sure.)

I say if he can throw the ball for a certain amount of time and not show signs of fatigue and can maintain a constant display of improvement pay the man.. He will eventually progress or learn to adapt with how he can throw now.

I remember when PM was healthy like years ago everyone would say 80% of a PM is still better than 80% of the league.

The "Norm" for Peyton is what 4000+ yards 30+ tds. What did we do last year between our qbs?.. a little over 3000 and like 14 tds 14 ints.

Im sure PM can put up better stats than that.

Now that you know of the potential consequences of the cap hit if we keep him, and he cannot play, what do you recommend the team to do?

I would push hard for him to restructure.. still give him a nice bonus but make the contract incentive based.. so lets say he cant play we can cut him and just have to pay him his bonus or his pro-rated amount. That way we Dont have to be on the hook for the whole amount unless he is healthy and can play.

Me trying to field a good team for next season I would be more inclined to work with PM and get my proven veterans back.

Cheap talent was Painter, whom we acquired in the 6th round 2 years ago. How did that work out for us?

There is a pre-season for a reason.. no one is going to risk PM getting injuried so you sign 5 qbs doesnt matter.. let them duke it out. If they play like crap look in the FA market for cheap talent.

But this problem has been since the start of Sorgi holding a clipboard. Why havent they signed more FA QBs or undrafted people or draft some prospect rookie qbs late and try them out.. its simple the colts didnt think PM would go down.

[oldunclemark]

What do you mean by remember the tag? Aren't they only allowed to tag one player?

I think Irsay would love to have Manning for one year and then transition. But, I don't get the feeling that Manning thinks he can only play for one more year.

That's why I said that ALL of our free agents are not leaving.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Sorgi > Painter

[eli4625]

But in the short term..its best to have them both...

We are a top QB away from a return to the playoffs

...most likely all our free agents are not leaving..(remember the tag) and we have young injured players returning (Ijalana, Nevis)

returning..

Sign Manning..,draft Luck and then we arent in the hole if Manning isnt ready..

This is what Irsay originally hinted he wanted to do,..

How many companies have two CEO's running the company? How many quality restuarants have two head chefs? What do the Colts do if say Peyton can't do it like he did before but he is on the roster who tells him to take the clipboard and puts Andrew in? Why create an issue/circus environment when you don't have to?

[FireJimCaldwell]

What do you mean by remember the tag? Aren't they only allowed to tag one player?

I think Irsay would love to have Manning for one year and then transition. But, I don't get the feeling that Manning thinks he can only play for one more year.

I bet Manning finds the "victory lap" Irsay comment as an insult.

You are right you can only use a franchise tag on one player and only one of ours is remotely worth it and that is Mathis. Even then with the change in defense there aren't any promises that he's worth it under the new scheme.

[FireJimCaldwell]

How many companies have two CEO's running the company? How many quality restuarants have two head chefs? What do the Colts do if say Peyton can't do it like he did before but he is on the roster who tells him to take the clipboard and puts Andrew in? Why create an issue/circus environment when you don't have to?

If Manning isn't up to a certain level in training camp, I would say he retires. The head coach should be the one to make that decision. He didn't last year and the new one hasn't coached a game yet, so we can't have an opinion on how he will be.

[UndecidedFrog]

I hate %'s because everyone throws them around like they know what they mean.. It was like around Superbowl time and someone reported he was around 80%.. (Dont hold me to that not quite sure.)

I say if he can throw the ball for a certain amount of time and not show signs of fatigue and can maintain a constant display of improvement pay the man.. He will eventually progress or learn to adapt with how he can throw now.

I must disagree.

If he can throw the ball for a certain amount of time, and shows some improvement, I do not equate that to projecting that he will eventually progress. What the doctors have told us regarding the type of injury PM has, is that at any time the progress may plateau, and nerve regeneration will have stopped. I am not in favor of risking $28MM real cash and $38.4MM in dead cap space on that risk that PM's nerve will fully regenerate.

I would push hard for him to restructure.. still give him a nice bonus but make the contract incentive based.. so lets say he cant play we can cut him and just have to pay him his bonus or his pro-rated amount. That way we Dont have to be on the hook for the whole amount unless he is healthy and can play.

If we cut him before March 8, we don't have to pay him anything that we did not already pay him.

We would just suffer the $10.4MM dead cap space as a result of the acceleration of unamortized pro-rated pieces, none of which are actual real dollar payments to PM.

There is a pre-season for a reason.. no one is going to risk PM getting injuried so you sign 5 qbs doesnt matter.. let them duke it out. If they play like crap look in the FA market for cheap talent.

But this problem has been since the start of Sorgi holding a clipboard. Why havent they signed more FA QBs or undrafted people or draft some prospect rookie qbs late and try them out.. its simple the colts didnt think PM would go down.

It really doesn't matter if you get the best backup QB on the roster, if you don't allow him some reps in practice. When PM was active, he did not allow QB2 to get any reps in practice, and the coaches were fine with that. Hopefully that changes with our new coaches.

[eli4625]

If Manning isn't up to a certain level in training camp, I would say he retires. The head coach should be the one to make that decision. He didn't last year and the new one hasn't coached a game yet, so we can't have an opinion on how he will be.

Very few athletes know when it is time to walk away most are kicked to the side. Plus what do you think the fan fallout would be if our JFK started Luck over Manning? Sometimes you just need a clean split that benefits everyone.

[oldunclemark]

How many companies have two CEO's running the company? How many quality restuarants have two head chefs? What do the Colts do if say Peyton can't do it like he did before but he is on the roster who tells him to take the clipboard and puts Andrew in? Why create an issue/circus environment when you don't have to?

You need a quality backup QB..

We proved that in 2011..(so did the Bears)

If Manning physically cant play.....we'll know..

Manning has never played badly for a season when he's been able to play..

FROG is right....we have to allow Luck to develop..

.......but I think a rookie QB benefits from a year watching and not playing..

That's the way it was for decades in the NFL...

I dont think Luck sitting for a year or two is as big a deal as we make it here...

If we're winning..Luck will have no problem with sitting. If we're losing..it means Manning is impaired and Luck wont be sitting..

the new coach owes Manning nothing..

[FireJimCaldwell]

Very few athletes know when it is time to walk away most are kicked to the side. Plus what do you think the fan fallout would be if our JFK started Luck over Manning? Sometimes you just need a clean split that benefits everyone.

Very few do, but this is a different situation. This isn't a decline over time, like most QB's experience. This was a slap in the face injury that went went from about 85-90% down to about 30-40%. Nobody is a bigger critic to Manning than Manning himself and while I feel he will have the desire to continue to play, but if he's reaches a point that his return is maxed out and it's not up to his standards, I see him walking away.

I don't see Manning here next year, because I don't see him coming back for a 1-2 year deal like some do. He will either retire, or attempt to play 4-5 years with another team.

[eli4625]

You don't know that. Manning had already showed signs of "slowing" down by Manning standards in 09 and 10. Yes he won the MVP in 09' but that was a stastical decline if you look at his previous years. I agree with Uncle here in that you have Manning come back with Luck on the roster as well. Have Manning win another title and retire after this coming year as the greatest to ever play the game.

This franchise is in a full blown structural rebuild...even with Peyton at QB they are no where near a divison winner let alone getting to a SB over the next 2-3 years.

[eli4625]

You don't know that. Manning had already showed signs of "slowing" down by Manning standards in 09 and 10. Yes he won the MVP in 09' but that was a stastical decline if you look at his previous years. I agree with Uncle here in that you have Manning come back with Luck on the roster as well. Have Manning win another title and retire after this coming year as the greatest to ever play the game.

This franchise is in a full blown structural rebuild...even with Peyton at QB they are no where near a divison winner let alone getting to a SB over the next 2-3 years.

[Restored]

This franchise is in a full blown structural rebuild...even with Peyton at QB they are no where near a divison winner let alone getting to a SB over the next 2-3 years.

Um no. You obviously don't know how the NFL works. In this league you can go from worst to first with the same relative roster. In our case you plug in a few new rookies and bring Peyton back along with getting some players back who weren't healthy last year and you could see a surprising turnaround. It happens.

3-13 1998

13-3 1999

[Fx Stryker]

This franchise is in a full blown structural rebuild...even with Peyton at QB they are no where near a divison winner let alone getting to a SB over the next 2-3 years.

You mean the team that has around 14-15 starters from the Super Bowl team?

[eli4625]

You need a quality backup QB..

We proved that in 2011..(so did the Bears)

If Manning physically cant play.....we'll know..

Manning has never played badly for a season when he's been able to play..

FROG is right....we have to allow Luck to develop..

.......but I think a rookie QB benefits from a year watching and not playing..

That's the way it was for decades in the NFL...

I dont think Luck sitting for a year or two is as big a deal as we make it here...

If we're winning..Luck will have no problem with sitting. If we're losing..it means Manning is impaired and Luck wont be sitting..

the new coach owes Manning nothing..

This is not your dads NFL...QB's now come in and need to play right off look around the league and u can see that...

[eli4625]

Um no. You obviously don't know how the NFL works. In this league you can go from worst to first with the same relative roster. In our case you plug in a few new rookies and bring Peyton back along with getting some players back who weren't healthy last year and you could see a surprising turnaround. It happens.

3-13 1998

13-3 1999

That 98 team was a better team then the 2011 Colts were.

[Restored]

That 98 team was a better team then the 2011 Colts were.

Doesn't matter. My point is teams make one year turnarounds all the time. It is highly possible.

[oldunclemark]

Very few do, but this is a different situation. This isn't a decline over time, like most QB's experience. This was a slap in the face injury that went went from about 85-90% down to about 30-40%. Nobody is a bigger critic to Manning than Manning himself and while I feel he will have the desire to continue to play, but if he's reaches a point that his return is maxed out and it's not up to his standards, I see him walking away.

I don't see Manning here next year, because I don't see him coming back for a 1-2 year deal like some do. He will either retire, or attempt to play 4-5 years with another team.

as someone who wants Manning back..that is my concern.....

I have increasingly less doubt that he can come back and play...all signs point that way

..but he does have to take a 1-2 year 'prove it' deal...

I dont know if deep down...if that prospect excites and motivates him or if it angers and antagonizes him.

He's not talking.

[eli4625]

You mean the team that has around 14-15 starters from the Super Bowl team?

Wow and they ate how much older now and beat up. Careers in the NFL are short for a reason...

[oldunclemark]

This is not your dads NFL...QB's now come in and need to play right off look around the league and u can see that...

No that's Aaron Rodgers' NFL

[smittywerb]

Great to hear some good news. But would be better if it came from our camp or immediate circle. I'm still scratching my chin that this came from a Boston source. Regardless if Peyton is healthy by May or not. That contract needs to be restructured or completely done over to begin with and we need a replacement. Last year showed us we need insurance.

[FireJimCaldwell]

as someone who wants Manning back..that is my concern.....

I have increasingly less doubt that he can come back and play...all signs point that way

..but he does have to take a 1-2 year 'prove it' deal...

I dont know if deep down...if that prospect excites and motivates him or if it angers and antagonizes him.

He's not talking.

He doesn't have to do anything. If he's happy with the one year victory lap deal, then he'll sign with the Colts, if he's not he will sign a longer contract elsewhere, but he doesn't have to do anything. The "prove it" portion of his new deal will be based on incentives for the first year or maybe 2, and if he meets those incentives, I could see that triggering higher base salaries, in years 3 to 4.

Of course he's not talking, he's not coming off as a buffoon like someone else.

[Fx Stryker]

Wow and they ate how much older now and beat up. Careers in the NFL are short for a reason...

Your basing there ability of play on what? If you compared there stats from 2010 and 2011 then numbers wise they look bad. If you look at them in ratio to the opposition ToP then they did better. It was pure lack of offense the defense seemed bad.

Reggie still had almost a 1000 yards receiving. Despite the fact he less than 5 receptions in more than half his games.

Pierre Garcon had the greatest season of his career.

Our running improved even though we had the ball less compared to other years.

The only things missing is, hold on you may need to brace yourself this maybe a shock, QB.

[eli4625]

Your basing there ability of play on what? If you compared there stats from 2010 and 2011 then numbers wise they look bad. If you look at them in ratio to the opposition ToP then they did better. It was pure lack of offense the defense seemed bad.

Reggie still had almost a 1000 yards receiving. Despite the fact he less than 5 receptions in more than half his games.

Pierre Garcon had the greatest season of his career.

Our running improved even though we had the ball less compared to other years.

The only things missing is, hold on you may need to brace yourself this maybe a shock, QB.

Players past say early 30's are more likley to decline in performance not get better.

[Fx Stryker]

Players past say early 30's are more likley to decline in performance not get better.

Very few of our players show signs.

[southwest1]

I actually wish we could hear some good clear information that Condon, Irsay, and Grigson were meeting on a contract. Truth is Luck and RG3 are stud QBs no matter how you look at it. Luck fits the Colts system and RG3 fits with the Skins....not sure any QB fits in the Brown's system anymore. Both of these young men played in warm weather, and as the song says "When the Gales of November come Early" off of Lake Erie. Honestly I did not just Tweet that for Irsay...I promise....

Well said Brent. Go straight to Tom Condon for accurate Peyton Info anything else reported on #18 is fluff & conjecture. Oh, how I do love to see warm weather QB's like Luck & RG3 exposed to the frigid elements of cold, winter weather. Bundle up fellas!!! HA! HA!