For Many Of Us, It's Not 'change' That We Object To...

[GoColts8818]

...it's about how it's being done.

I've been reading a lot of generalizations that pro-Peyton fans are just being resistant to change, that we don't like Luck, and that Luck is the only hope that the Colts have moving on.

In the 28 years of Indianapolis Colts football, we've been through many changes...none that I recall has created such a chasm in the fan base as this one. It's because this player has meant more to this franchise & city than any other since Johnny U.

Irsay needs to be a man of his word and let Peyton finish his career where he started it, and on his terms. RG3 said that it would be an honor to hold the clipboard behind such a legend. That is respect, and that is what Peyton deserves.

and Irsay has given Peyton the option to do that if he would like too. All Peyton has to do is agree to sign a more team friendly contract in light of his health situation. That's not an unreasonable request by Irsay and honestly if it were any player but Peyton Manning in this situation I think the Colts would just release them and be done with it. What is unreasonable is to expect Irsay to give Peyton Manning 28 million unsure if Peyton can play again or not knowing that if he can't and the Colts have to release him it force them to gut the team to pay for the cap hits that will come from relasing Peyton Manning

I love Peyton Manning and I want him here and I am in no ways trying to shove Peyton Manning out of the way to make room for Andrew Luck but we can't just take a leap of blind faith on Peyton out of being loyal to the guy. Not because I want Peyton gone and not because I want Andrew Luck or even RG3 for that matter but because of what happens to the team if you get it wrong. I mean if we get it wrong and pay him the money and lock us into the contract you are talking about something that will set the franchise back a generation at least. I don't think Peyton Manning would even ask the Colts to take that kind of risk on him because it would be selfish to do so and Peyton Manning is not selfish.

If Peyton honestly wants to stay a Colt and the Colts honestly want to let Peyton finish his career here the best thing to do is get a new contract in place that will be incentive driven going forward that gives the Colts an out in case Peyton can't play again. That's the number one issue here, what happens to the team if Peyton can't play again. A new contract that is incentive drive removes that risk. There is no reason that if both sides are being honest about wanting Peyton to stay here that they can't do that to keep him here.

If the Colts offer Peyton that contract and Peyton says no then to me personally it's Peyton who is rejecting us not the other way around. I honestly think Irsay is doing his best to come up with a way to keep Peyton in place and I honestly think Irsay still wants Peyton and for us to draft Andrew Luck. With that said if Peyton plays hardball and says give me the 28 million dollar bonus or I am not signing I am not sure if it's the responable thing to do to give him that bonus with so many questions about his health no matter how much he loves Peyton. This is that ugly cold business side of sports that people hate so much and this is why people hate it.

[likm]

Right now, there is no question as to Luck's ability to throw.

Right now, there is question as to Manning's ability to throw.

Right now, Luck is not rehabbing from any surgeries.

Right now, Manning is rehabbing from multiple surgeries.

Right now, Luck will be entering the 2012 season at the age of 23.

Right now, Manning will be entering the 2012 season at the age of 36.

Sure, this is professional football, and QBs get injured all the time.

However, are you seriously saying that there is a higher probability that Manning will last another 5 years than Luck?

Very well said.

[KaylaD]

I think money obviously plays a part in the decision. It only makes sense, you have to have as complete a team as possible. I don't know if Peyton has 5 yrs left, heck we don't even know if he can play right now. I think Irsay is doing the best he can in a difficult situation. It would be completely moronic to spend all that money on Peyton and then him not even be able to play. I love Peyton, I think he is truly the best qb to have played the game. I will forever be a fan of his. That being said, you can't spend all that money on chance and not have a plan for the future without him. After this season without him its pretty obvoious we need help in several positions. They said they want to make a more complete team. Pagano wants a defense that can stop the run, and an offense that can run. I love what I have heard so far. I think they are doing what is best for the team. I get sick of all the bashing. I do not like everything Irsay has said but I believe he is doing the best he can.

[BleedingBlue]

I think the reason why most people want pey-luck is because it just makes the most sense.

Everyone (except a small handful) want Peyton to retire a Colt.

Everyone (except a small handful) want to draft Andrew Luck.

The only people who want Andrew Luck without an adequet backup QB are either his biggest fanbois or his friends/family - who want him to have immediate playing time for his best interest (and aren't really thinking of the Colts best interest).

no one can put up an arguement about this depth chart comparison.

PM, AL, DO > AL, DO, ?

? = no third string, so we have to use YET ANOTHER PICK/FA on a QB? please.

[eli4625]

...it's about how it's being done.

I've been reading a lot of generalizations that pro-Peyton fans are just being resistant to change, that we don't like Luck, and that Luck is the only hope that the Colts have moving on.

In the 28 years of Indianapolis Colts football, we've been through many changes...none that I recall has created such a chasm in the fan base as this one. It's because this player has meant more to this franchise & city than any other since Johnny U.

Irsay needs to be a man of his word and let Peyton finish his career where he started it, and on his terms. RG3 said that it would be an honor to hold the clipboard behind such a legend. That is respect, and that is what Peyton deserves.

Irsay needs to do what is in the overall best interest of the franchise and that isn't keeping damaged goods on the roster whomever that player is. In no way should Peyton at this point with his injuries and huge contract be part of this franchise. Wish him well and move on.

[eli4625]

I agree with the sentiment, but since its not yet "done", lets not jump to conclusions about "how it was".

Both players have gushed over manning, so i'm not reading into their statements (anymore).

That said, if Manning is 100% and not a colt, then we always knew it was about money and that is just wrong.

Everything in sports is about the money...it has to be if you want to win.

[eli4625]

Tell me this. Who wrote this contract up. Im pretty sure it was willy wonka upstairs. He kept bragging about making peyton the highest paid player ever. And that essentially wat he did. Now he wants to back off of it. And dont give me this medical crap. Irsay knew peyton wasnt healthy when he wrote the contract. Peyton isnt choking the cap. Irsay is. Now he wants to be a coward and not live up to his word. I have lost all respect for the man

Please first off when the contract was done no one not even the doctors knew it was as bad as it was. Second there is not one owner in any sport who would have done or would do what Irsay is going to do. This is a business.

[jvan1973]

Please first off when the contract was done no one not even the doctors knew it was as bad as it was. Second there is not one owner in any sport who would have done or would do what Irsay is going to do. This is a business.

Im pretty sure they did alot of research on Peyton before signing the deal.. If they didnt, then that was a terrible business decision..

[GoColts8818]

Im pretty sure they did alot of research on Peyton before signing the deal.. If they didnt, then that was a terrible business decision..

and at the time they thought he was going to miss maybe a month of last season and no one in their wildest dreams probably thought there was a chance he might never play again or that we would be in poistion to have the top pick in the next draft.

Remember he was practicing up till final cut down to the point the Colts took him off the PUP list meaning they expected him to be able to play sometime in the first six weeks of the season or there is no reason to take him off the PUP list. It was when he felt soarness that they realized there was going to be another surgery needed.

[jvan1973]

and at the time they thought he was going to miss maybe a month of last season and no one in their wildest dreams probably thought there was a chance he might never play again or that we would be in poistion to have the top pick in the next draft.

Remember he was practicing up till final cut down to the point the Colts took him off the PUP list meaning they expected him to be able to play sometime in the first six weeks of the season or there is no reason to take him off the PUP list. It was when he felt soarness that they realized there was going to be another surgery needed.

So some of the best doctors in the world never even considered the possibility of a fusion?? I have a hard time buying that..

[GoColts8818]

So some of the best doctors in the world never even considered the possibility of a fusion?? I have a hard time buying that..

At the time they didn't think it was needed...again the actions the Colts took support them honestly not knowing it would be needed. Even JMV the guy who broke the story said the Colts honestly didn't think he would need the surgery till he felt pain after being taken off the PUP list.

[Fireman818]

No one wants Peyton to return more than me because I think he gives us the best opportunity to win going forward this year. I believe loyality is important and that Irsay wants him to return but I also have come to the conclusion that we can't pay Peyton 28 million $'s without knowing what he has and where he is health wise. I understand that now but what gets me is how people can just say good bye and dont let the door hit ya. Thanks for everything but hey were going to root for someone else now your used up. Thats what some of the posters on here sound like.

Thats the part I can't understand. They want to hide behing the curtain of, this is a team thing. Well, we've known for the last 14 season's that if Manning ever went down we would be in trouble and then when it happened, 2-14. Before that Manning took us to great places and achieved great things. We never had a defense, very seldom could we run the ball. We were built around the greatest QB to play the game. Quit bashing the guy that brought us to where we are today. Show some respect for what he gave us and be loyal to the hope because if Manning hadn't been drafted 14 years ago the Colts would be nothing and that derserves some thought.

It's about 28 million dollars and in the salary era, it only makes sense. So here's to Manning hopefully coming back at a lesser cap hit but by March 8th he's going to get released. Lets hope he resigns for less money and we can move on. Were drafting Luck #1 cause I guess, it's what makes sense but if Manning comes back and Luck has to sit for 2-3 years behind him, lets hope it all works out for the best.

If Manning doesn't come back, then don't think there's not going to be fans upset and outfalling from that because if you don't then we might as well pay the 28 million cause it's just as silly to think there won't be Manning fallout from the fanbase. I know, I know don't let the door hit you in the butt. I've heard it 28 million times! Go Colts, Go Manning, hope to see you in Colts Blue real soon!

[Superman]

Thats the part I can't understand. They want to hide behing the curtain of, this is a team thing. Well, we've known for the last 14 season's that if Manning ever went down we would be in trouble and then when it happened, 2-14. Before that Manning took us to great places and achieved great things. We never had a defense, very seldom could we run the ball. We were built around the greatest QB to play the game. Quit bashing the guy that brought us to where we are today. Show some respect for what he gave us and be loyal to the hope because if Manning hadn't been drafted 14 years ago the Colts would be nothing and that derserves some thought.

I completely appreciate your perspective. I agree with it, for the most part. Some are very eager to see Manning leave and bring in Luck, and hide behind the facade of "no one player is bigger than the team and the future," but if there were ever a player to test that belief against, it's Peyton Manning. 2011 proves just how valuable he is and has been.

That said, the idea that we've never been able to run and the defense has always been bad is overstated. Especially the run game, because we were always an average to above average run team before 2008, when the line fell apart and we suffered a bunch of injuries at running back.

But really, doesn't the fact that we were deficient in certain areas speak to the fact that we need to be a bit more balanced in terms of our approach? If you have Peyton Manning at a high level, you try to make it work, which is what we've done for several years now, but do you pay Manning $28 million without knowing that he can play at a high level? Do you carry an average $18.5 million cap hit for him for the next four years because of what he's meant to the team in the past, especially if that impairs your ability to build a good team? I think the answer is obvious.

Once you get past the sentimentality of the matter, you're back to the fundamental question: Should you pay a 36 year old quarterback who isn't back to 100% a $28 million bonus that will choke your salary cap for the next four years? I think the answer is obvious. The fact that it's Manning makes it incredibly painful to anyone who appreciates what he's meant to the team and to the NFL for the past decade, but it's pretty obvious what the smart decision is. And again, this is independent of the Andrew Luck issue.

I hope beyond hope that I don't come across as being calloused to this situation. I'm still hoping that we can either renegotiate the bonus (which, according to CBA experts, is not allowed because of the way it's structured and the date it's due), or get Manning to stay with the Colts after we opt out. I hope we can see him play for the Colts and even win another championship. But I don't think we can pay him that bonus. That would be a terrible mistake.

Furthermore, anyone who claims that Jim Irsay is a coward, a hypocrite, or not a man of his word because he would dare to exercise his option to not pay Manning either doesn't understand the situation fully or can't see beyond their tears. Jim Irsay has been a terrific owner and a wonderful steward for the Colts, which the Super Bowl in Indy attests to more than anything else. this is significantly bigger than Peyton Manning, and Irsay has a responsibility to do the smart thing, even if it means letting Peyton Manning go play somewhere else. And that really, really sucks. But that's the way it is right now.

[rccoltsfan]

Right now, there is no question as to Luck's ability to throw.

Right now, there is question as to Manning's ability to throw.

Right now, Luck is not rehabbing from any surgeries.

Right now, Manning is rehabbing from multiple surgeries.

Right now, Luck will be entering the 2012 season at the age of 23.

Right now, Manning will be entering the 2012 season at the age of 36.

Sure, this is professional football, and QBs get injured all the time.

However, are you seriously saying that there is a higher probability that Manning will last another 5 years than Luck?

Right now, Manning is the only 4 time MVP in the history of the NFL.

Right now, Luck is all speculation.

[UndecidedFrog]

Right now, Manning is the only 4 time MVP in the history of the NFL.

Right now, Luck is all speculation.

Back then, in 1997, the Colts went 3-13 and obtained the #1 overall pick. They traded their 34-year old QB and used their #1 pick for the QB of the future in Peyton Manning and started him the next season. Back then, Peyton was all speculation.

Recently, in 2011, the Colts went 2-14 and obtained the #1 overall pick. What the Colts should do, IMO, is to release their 36-year old QB and use their #1 pick for the QB of the future in Andrew Luck and start him the next season, even though right now, Andrew is all speculation, just like Peyton was back then.

[KaylaD]

I totally agree with you Superman. I would hate to be in Irsay's position and have to do it. Which is one reason I keep telling people he is doing the best he can. It cannot be an easy thing to do! I do not believe he wants to release Peyton, he is doing what he has to do. I hope they do come to a deal where we can keep Peyton but do not have much hope for that. I will always be a Peyton fan. Even if he is released I will still wear my 18 jersey on Sundays and still be rooting for the Colts! We are very lucky to have had him playing for our team, playing for us! So many fans of other teams do not know what it is like to watch greatness and we had it for all those years. Peyton is amazing! We should be happy for what we have had and excited about what it can turn into. Thats the attitude I'm going in with.

[rccoltsfan]

Back then, in 1997, the Colts went 3-13 and obtained the #1 overall pick. They traded their 34-year old QB and used their #1 pick for the QB of the future in Peyton Manning and started him the next season. Back then, Peyton was all speculation.

Recently, in 2011, the Colts went 2-14 and obtained the #1 overall pick. What the Colts should do, IMO, is to release their 36-year old QB and use their #1 pick for the QB of the future in Andrew Luck and start him the next season, even though right now, Andrew is all speculation, just like Peyton was back then.

There is an important difference in your logic...the 34-year old QB that we traded (Captain Comeback) was NOT a 4 time, MVP who led us to 2 Superbowls WITHOUT a great supporting cast of players.

[UndecidedFrog]

There is an important difference in your logic...the 34-year old QB that we traded (Captain Comeback) was NOT a 4 time, MVP who led us to 2 Superbowls WITHOUT a great supporting cast of players.

Being a 4-time MVP does not make you immune to aging, let alone to serious injury. 4-time MVPs do not play forever.

[BleedingBlue]

Yea but we can spare the terrible year Manning had by having him for the transition. Andrew will be the better for it. I'm not ready to throw away 2012.

[JoKeR]

Here's the problem. I think either Luck or RG3 can sit behind Manning for 1 year. But is giving Manning just 1 more year letting him end on his terms or does Peyton think he has 3 or 4 more years in the tank?

Good point I thought the same that he may just want to end it on his own terms in 1-2 years. If we miraculously won the Superbowl next year with Peyton, I believe he'd retire on top.

[The Fish]

There is an important difference in your logic...the 34-year old QB that we traded (Captain Comeback) was NOT a 4 time, MVP who led us to 2 Superbowls WITHOUT a great supporting cast of players.

Yup, Marvin, Edge, Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, Bob, Saturday, Vinitari, Bethea, Glenn, all a bunch of nobodies.

[rccoltsfan]

It's no mystery that the Colts will either be selecting Luck (99.9%) or RG3 (.01%)...I just can't buy into any of the reasons for not keeping Peyton for the next 1 - 3 years on a restructured contract and allow greatness to follow greatness. I'm not sure that an incentive laden contract is the route you want to take with Peyton, and all that he will be out to prove.

[JoKeR]

Yea but we can spare the terrible year Manning had by having him for the transition. Andrew will be the better for it. I'm not ready to throw away 2012.

It would probably be a mixed bag season like Daltons and Newtons rookie season but you never know, stranger things have happened. Marino went to the SB in his rookie year.

[Wyld1]

It's no mystery that the Colts will either be selecting Luck (99.9%) or RG3 (.01%)...I just can't buy into any of the reasons for not keeping Peyton for the next 1 - 3 years on a restructured contract and allow greatness to follow greatness. I'm not sure that an incentive laden contract is the route you want to take with Peyton, and all that he will be out to prove.

This is the first I have seen you post this scenario and is one most of us would agree with. A healthy Manning with restructured contract while Luck waits in the wings, Though, imo, it wouldn't work more than two years top.....

[JoKeR]

It's no mystery that the Colts will either be selecting Luck (99.9%) or RG3 (.01%)...I just can't buy into any of the reasons for not keeping Peyton for the next 1 - 3 years on a restructured contract and allow greatness to follow greatness. I'm not sure that an incentive laden contract is the route you want to take with Peyton, and all that he will be out to prove.

What's wrong with a incentive deal, it would seem to offer more motivation? Just curious.

[BleedingBlue]

I agree that pey-luck can't sustain everyone happily for more than 1-2 years.

[rccoltsfan]

Yup, Marvin, Edge, Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, Bob, Saturday, Vinitari, Bethea, Glenn, all a bunch of nobodies.

Geesh...of course they were/are great players! But how many of them did we have on the roster AT THE SAME TIME??? When we had Edge & Marvin in his prime, we barely had a defense. We picked up Freeney who was immediately a star, but how long was it before we had enough of a supporting cast to be effective?

I think I'm getting the picture about this forum...if you don't share the views of the loudest, better keep your mouth shut, eh?

[UndecidedFrog]

It's no mystery that the Colts will either be selecting Luck (99.9%) or RG3 (.01%)...I just can't buy into any of the reasons for not keeping Peyton for the next 1 - 3 years on a restructured contract and allow greatness to follow greatness. I'm not sure that an incentive laden contract is the route you want to take with Peyton, and all that he will be out to prove.

Here are the possible reasons why Peyton may not be a Colt for the next 1-3 years:

1) Restructured contract is not acceptable to Peyton

2) Having Luck (or RG3) breathing down his back may not be acceptable to Peyton

3) Peyton may think his chances are better elsewhere

[rccoltsfan]

This is the first I have seen you post this scenario and is one most of us would agree with. A healthy Manning with restructured contract while Luck waits in the wings, Though, imo, it wouldn't work more than two years top.....

It's a general misconception that those of us supporting Peyton's return are against drafting his replacement.

I had originally typed 1 - 2 years and changed it to 1 - 3 years...just wishful thinking...it wouldn't make sense for more than 2 years.

[CantBeStopped]

Hey super. I probably over reacted with my irsay comment. I have always liked him as an owner. But this past year hes started to rub me the wrong way. Too much tweeting and seems like hes trying to get too involved with the team. We dont need an al davis or jerryy jones.as far as the peyton ordeal. I dont think they should pay the option. Its too much for even if hes healthy. I thought it was a stupid contract to start out. But irsay just had to have him as the highest paid player. No human deserves that amount of money when ppl in this worlgd starve. I just want peyton to finish his career here. I dont want some highly touted rookie to run him out of town. We have no idea what luck will be in the nfl. We know what we have in peyton. He has played with this for three years. Imagine how he can play when fully healthy. I fully agree we need a more balanced team. I. Miss the run game we has with edge. Yi want a good defense. And with that peyton could take this team to the promised land numerous times. So lets big peyton back. And still build this team for the future. We know even with a bad team he will give us a chance.

[BleedingBlue]

Fish...and only 1 notbable offensive lineman in 12 years. That is notable in itself.

Yea, frog...i agree. If Peyton is 100% he may not want a pey-cut.

[MR. Blueblood]

All March 8th is going to do is stop the converstaion about what we should do and then have it become a converstaion about did we do the right thing?

That's true, at least it will be a slightly different topic that gets completely ran into the ground. I've had about all I can take of the what should we do one.

[rccoltsfan]

Hey super. I probably over reacted with my irsay comment. I have always liked him as an owner. But this past year hes started to rub me the wrong way. Too much tweeting and seems like hes trying to get too involved with the team. We dont need an al davis or jerryy jones.as far as the peyton ordeal. I dont think they should pay the option. Its too much for even if hes healthy. I thought it was a stupid contract to start out. But irsay just had to have him as the highest paid player. No human deserves that amount of money when ppl in this worlgd starve. I just want peyton to finish his career here. I dont want some highly touted rookie to run him out of town. We have no idea what luck will be in the nfl. We know what we have in peyton. He has played with this for three years. Imagine how he can play when fully healthy. I fully agree we need a more balanced team. I. Miss the run game we has with edge. Yi want a good defense. And with that peyton could take this team to the promised land numerous times. So lets big peyton back. And still build this team for the future. We know even with a bad team he will give us a chance.

Bravo!

[Wyld1]

It's a general misconception that those of us supporting Peyton's return are against drafting his replacement.

I had originally typed 1 - 2 years and changed it to 1 - 3 years...just wishful thinking...it wouldn't make sense for more than 2 years.

A similar misconception is being applied to those who want Indy to draft Luck... as if we are turning our backs on PM, which is ridiculous. His current deal is what most of us have the problem with and how it hamstrings the franchise.

[The Fish]

Fish...and only 1 notbable offensive lineman in 12 years. That is notable in itself.

Yea, frog...i agree. If Peyton is 100% he may not want a pey-cut.

To be fair how many notable o linemen are there in the NFL at any time that average fans could name?

No more than 10 is my guess.

As for our team, our O line has had some consistency until recently.

[Wyld1]

To be fair how many notable o linemen are there in the NFL at any time that average fans could name?

No more than 10 is my guess.

As for our team, our O line has had some consistency until recently.

I am guessing Saturday, Glenn, Meadows, Mckinney, DeMulling, Diem, Jake Scott and Ryan Lilja weren't too shabby ;)

[Superman]

Hey super. I probably over reacted with my irsay comment. I have always liked him as an owner. But this past year hes started to rub me the wrong way. Too much tweeting and seems like hes trying to get too involved with the team. We dont need an al davis or jerryy jones.

You have no idea. If you're comparing Jim Irsay to those two, just be glad you're not a Raider or Cowboy fan (or Redskins).

I've said and will continue to say, Irsay's tweeting has nothing to do with how he runs his team. It's about as relevant as an owner's toy train collection, which is to say that it's not remotely relevant.

The reason Irsay has seemed more involved lately is because a) he was significantly involved in the Manning contract negotiations, as always, and he should be as the owner; and b) he decided to fire his front office and then his coaching staff, so he's been making more decisions than usual this offseason. But for the last fourteen years, he's had his front office and coaching staff, and has allowed them to make the day-to-day decisions on running the team, and he's only gotten involved in big picture situations. The Manning situation qualifies as big picture, so Irsay is running point and will shoulder the blame for this decision. I'm sure Grigson appreciates that.

as far as the peyton ordeal. I dont think they should pay the option. Its too much for even if hes healthy. I thought it was a stupid contract to start out. But irsay just had to have him as the highest paid player. No human deserves that amount of money when ppl in this worlgd starve.

The market is set. You're talking about a different topic. NFL players make a lot of money to play a game because the game they play generates a lot of revenue. Systemic issues. Has nothing to do with what Irsay should have or should not have paid Manning.

I just want peyton to finish his career here. I dont want some highly touted rookie to run him out of town. We have no idea what luck will be in the nfl. We know what we have in peyton. He has played with this for three years. Imagine how he can play when fully healthy. I fully agree we need a more balanced team. I. Miss the run game we has with edge. Yi want a good defense. And with that peyton could take this team to the promised land numerous times. So lets big peyton back. And still build this team for the future. We know even with a bad team he will give us a chance.

Regardless of the Luck situation, I don't think Irsay would pay the option bonus under these circumstances. Maybe he'd make retaining Manning more of a priority, given that Manning at 70% is better than scrambling to find a quarterback to take his place. But is Manning at 70% better than a highly ranked rookie quarterback? Doubtful. Do we even know that Manning will be at 70%? We really don't know if or when the nerve will regenerate to an acceptable level. So, no, we DON'T know what we have in Peyton. We know what we HAD in Peyton, and it sucks that we're not guaranteed that anymore. But that's the reality, as it stands right now. Got to work with the parameters as they're set right now.

Speaking of which, we're running out of time. A decision has to be made in the next ten days. No more waiting. No more "his arm will come around." The question now is decidedly "Has his arm come around?"

And if you want balance, bringing Peyton back only makes that harder. Improving the run game means acquiring some players we don't have right now. Same for improving the defense. We need to do those things with or without him if we want to be a good team again. We might have to rebuild the entire interior of the offensive line. We need to improve in the secondary and at defensive tackle. Opting out of Manning's contract and then resigning him doesn't save us very much money toward this year's cap (because there's a $10.4 million dead cap hit in 2012 if we release him, then we have to turn around and give him another contract with a yearly salary, and even incentivized it will have a significant cap hit). It would really hurt us in 2012 to keep Manning.

I think it's a no-brainer that we have to take Luck. He's a top notch prospect at a position that we need help at, either now or in the near future. That makes it a little more convenient to make the decision on Manning, but if Manning can play at a high level, then the details can be worked out so that we have both of them. I don't think that will be the case, even though I see a significant benefit to it. But the Manning health/money issue is independent of the Luck issue. Can't pay the bonus, and even after that, if we want to be a good team, we have to weigh very carefully how to structure a new contract with Manning.

I don't envy Irsay at all. I don't think he's pushing Manning out the door. I think he just wants to make the right decision. And opting out is the right decision. That's true whether he tweets or not.

[MR. Blueblood]

You have no idea. If you're comparing Jim Irsay to those two, just be glad you're not a Raider or Cowboy fan (or Redskins).

I've said and will continue to say, Irsay's tweeting has nothing to do with how he runs his team. It's about as relevant as an owner's toy train collection, which is to say that it's not remotely relevant.

The reason Irsay has seemed more involved lately is because a) he was significantly involved in the Manning contract negotiations, as always, and he should be as the owner; and b) he decided to fire his front office and then his coaching staff, so he's been making more decisions than usual this offseason. But for the last fourteen years, he's had his front office and coaching staff, and has allowed them to make the day-to-day decisions on running the team, and he's only gotten involved in big picture situations. The Manning situation qualifies as big picture, so Irsay is running point and will shoulder the blame for this decision. I'm sure Grigson appreciates that.

The market is set. You're talking about a different topic. NFL players make a lot of money to play a game because the game they play generates a lot of revenue. Systemic issues. Has nothing to do with what Irsay should have or should not have paid Manning.

Regardless of the Luck situation, I don't think Irsay would pay the option bonus under these circumstances. Maybe he'd make retaining Manning more of a priority, given that Manning at 70% is better than scrambling to find a quarterback to take his place. But is Manning at 70% better than a highly ranked rookie quarterback? Doubtful. Do we even know that Manning will be at 70%? We really don't know if or when the nerve will regenerate to an acceptable level. So, no, we DON'T know what we have in Peyton. We know what we HAD in Peyton, and it sucks that we're not guaranteed that anymore. But that's the reality, as it stands right now. Got to work with the parameters as they're set right now.

Speaking of which, we're running out of time. A decision has to be made in the next ten days. No more waiting. No more "his arm will come around." The question now is decidedly "Has his arm come around?"

And if you want balance, bringing Peyton back only makes that harder. Improving the run game means acquiring some players we don't have right now. Same for improving the defense. We need to do those things with or without him if we want to be a good team again. We might have to rebuild the entire interior of the offensive line. We need to improve in the secondary and at defensive tackle. Opting out of Manning's contract and then resigning him doesn't save us very much money toward this year's cap (because there's a $10.4 million dead cap hit in 2012 if we release him, then we have to turn around and give him another contract with a yearly salary, and even incentivized it will have a significant cap hit). It would really hurt us in 2012 to keep Manning.

I think it's a no-brainer that we have to take Luck. He's a top notch prospect at a position that we need help at, either now or in the near future. That makes it a little more convenient to make the decision on Manning, but if Manning can play at a high level, then the details can be worked out so that we have both of them. I don't think that will be the case, even though I see a significant benefit to it. But the Manning health/money issue is independent of the Luck issue. Can't pay the bonus, and even after that, if we want to be a good team, we have to weigh very carefully how to structure a new contract with Manning.

I don't envy Irsay at all. I don't think he's pushing Manning out the door. I think he just wants to make the right decision. And opting out is the right decision. That's true whether he tweets or not.

I don't see how anybody could argue with any of that. Very well said!

[jvan1973]

I think if Peyton would be willing to be cut and re-sign a reduced contract he should be able to do so. If he isnt. then Mr. Irsay really has no other choice The original contract that was signed this year was a dumb one anyway.. WAY too much upfront bonus money for a guy who had a known neck issue.. Im not sure how much Polian had to do with that contravt. but someone messed up big time..

[Cynjin]

You spelled John Elway wrong.

Nice one Jaric, lol.