Jack Doyle Is not # 1 Material

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Shadow_Creek said:

A top TE would be your End zone threats like Gram - 10TDs  Gronk - 8TDs  or Kelce- 8TDs

Go take a peek at NFL TEs stats. You will find Doyle #2 in the league in catches. A TE does not have to have a bunch of TDs to be a top TE. 80 catches put him in the top category no matter what your opinion is.

sorry, no cigar.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Not to put down the OP but why is this even a topic? Jack is the least of our problems and is a Good player. Just asking?

[HectorRoberts]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Go take a peek at NFL TEs stats. You will find Doyle #2 in the league in catches. A TE does not have to have a bunch of TDs to be a top TE. 80 catches put him in the top category no matter what your opinion is.

sorry, no cigar.

Not even to mention, how many touchdowns did Brissett even throw? It’s hard to be high on the td list when your qb only threw a hand full of tds all season.

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Not to put down the OP but why is this even a topic? Jack is the least of our problems and is a Good player. Just asking?

I have no clue as to why this thread was even started. I know it's the off season but to come out of the blue just to say Doyle is not a #1 TE is beyond mind boggling. Maybe it was started just to stir up horse dung? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have no clue as to why this thread was even started. I know it's the off season but to come out of the blue just to say Doyle is not a #1 TE is beyond mind boggling. Maybe it was started just to stir up horse dung? 

Horse Dung is the truth  

[Smoke317]

3 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

If your going to say he’s not a number one, then your saying he’s a number 2... I know math is really hard... when I say slinging crap I mean that you are talking out of your *... you say one thing then back pedal trying to say you mean something else until no one knows what your even talking about anymore.... 

Stats don’t lie. Look them up.  I’ve never back pedaled at all.  Doyle is a possession tight end and there’s nothing wrong with that.  He’s solid and dependable. He just can’t be the focus of your offense which is what 90-100 catches should signify...  

 

Out of all players who had over 100 targets, he and Landry are the only wide receiver or tight end to average less than 10 yards per catch.  He’s not a game breaker.  No shame in that. Our receivers were supposed to be. They didn’t do their jobs. So Doyle was forced to be our primary weapon. And our offense finished near the bottom.  I feel like I’m trying to explain things to children here... 

 

For the last time, Doyle is solid and dependable. A great possession tight end and I’m glad we have him.  But he should not be the primary focus of our offense (lead us in targets & catches).  If he is, like he was this year, we will finish near the bottom again.  That may be acceptable to you as a Doyle fan but it’s not good enough to me as a Colts fan.

[Smoke317]

19 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Sucks to be wrong when you won't admit it.

I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong. But on this I’m not...  Perhaps you and your fellow blind Doyle fan club members are having a problem admitting it...

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Smoke317 said:

Stats don’t lie. Look them up.  I’ve never back pedaled at all.  Doyle is a possession tight end and there’s nothing wrong with that.  He’s solid and dependable. He just can’t be the focus of your offense which is what 90-100 catches should signify...  

 

Out of all players who had over 100 targets, he and Landry are the only wide receiver or tight end to average less than 10 yards per catch.  He’s not a game breaker.  No shame in that. Our receivers were supposed to be. They didn’t do their jobs. So Doyle was forced to be our primary weapon. And our offense finished near the bottom.  I feel like I’m trying to explain things to children here... 

 

For the last time, Doyle is solid and dependable. A great possession tight end and I’m glad we have him.  But he should not be the primary focus of our offense (lead us in targets & catches).  If he is, like he was this year, we will finish near the bottom again.  That may be acceptable to you as a Doyle fan but it’s not good enough to me as a Colts fan.

So let me get this right. With your own words you said Doyle was our primary receiver. That is a position in any offense that is considered #1.

And least of all there is no children here so don't go there.

[HectorRoberts]

6 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Stats don’t lie. Look them up.  I’ve never back pedaled at all.  Doyle is a possession tight end and there’s nothing wrong with that.  He’s solid and dependable. He just can’t be the focus of your offense which is what 90-100 catches should signify...  

 

Out of all players who had over 100 targets, he and Landry are the only wide receiver or tight end to average less than 10 yards per catch.  He’s not a game breaker.  No shame in that. Our receivers were supposed to be. They didn’t do their jobs. So Doyle was forced to be our primary weapon. And our offense finished near the bottom.  I feel like I’m trying to explain things to children here... 

 

For the last time, Doyle is solid and dependable. A great possession tight end and I’m glad we have him.  But he should not be the primary focus of our offense (lead us in targets & catches).  If he is, like he was this year, we will finish near the bottom again.  That may be acceptable to you as a Doyle fan but it’s not good enough to me as a Colts fan.

Wow It’s like talking to a wall... Jack Doyle is a #1! And the words the come from your lips is what my 4 year old would call “ a number 2”

[jshipp23]

I would try and bring back Allen cause he knows offense and go after Jimmy Graham. .Nothing wrong with having 2 good tight ends..We can afford it..

[crazycolt1]

10 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Stats don’t lie. Look them up.  I’ve never back pedaled at all.  Doyle is a possession tight end and there’s nothing wrong with that.  He’s solid and dependable. He just can’t be the focus of your offense which is what 90-100 catches should signify...  

 

Out of all players who had over 100 targets, he and Landry are the only wide receiver or tight end to average less than 10 yards per catch.  He’s not a game breaker.  No shame in that. Our receivers were supposed to be. They didn’t do their jobs. So Doyle was forced to be our primary weapon. And our offense finished near the bottom.  I feel like I’m trying to explain things to children here... 

 

For the last time, Doyle is solid and dependable. A great possession tight end and I’m glad we have him.  But he should not be the primary focus of our offense (lead us in targets & catches).  If he is, like he was this year, we will finish near the bottom again.  That may be acceptable to you as a Doyle fan but it’s not good enough to me as a Colts fan.

Children?  Just what does a difference of opinion makes you think you are smarter, more mature, above or whatever you think you are over those who have a difference of opinion?

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I would try and bring back Allen cause he knows offense and go after Jimmy Graham. .Nothing wrong with having 2 good tight ends..We can afford it..

We got rid of Allen's contract by fleecing the Patriots. He couldn't stick with them so why would you even say bring him back? There was a reason he was traded away or don't you remember?

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

We got rid of Allen's contract by fleecing the Patriots. He couldn't stick with them so why would you even say bring him back? There was a reason he was traded away or don't you remember?

Yeah his contract. .If we can get him cheap he is familiar with McDaniels offense and was productive here believe it or not..

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

We got rid of Allen's contract by fleecing the Patriots. He couldn't stick with them so why would you even say bring him back? There was a reason he was traded away or don't you remember?

I would go for Graham first,  or Goedart in draft..

[Smoke317]

2 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

Wow It’s like talking to a wall... Jack Doyle is a #1! And the words the come from your lips is what my 4 year old would call “ a number 2”

No. The words I said imply that Doyle is indeed our starting tight end but he should not ever lead our offense in catches or targets. Not if we plan on having a top flight offense.  30 less targets and 20 or so less catches would be more of a normal season for Doyle if Luck was playing and we were targeting our wide receivers and backs more.  

 

That would put him right in line with most other tight ends in the league. And there’s no shame in that.  And yes that would make him a starting tight end.  80 catches on 107/108 targets is not optimum though and should never be considered the norm.  I guess we’ll see next year if we get back to being a top 10 offense and he puts up those numbers, I will gladly admit that I underestimated his capabilities. I don’t foresee that happening though. 

[Buck Showalter]

LOL...some threads are just more entertaining than others...

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

I would go for Graham first,  or Goedart in draft..

Graham may not be a bad idea but I just don't see Allen ever coming back here. He couldn't stick here or in New England. If neither team couldn't find a place on their roster then he just needs to move on.

[jshipp23]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Graham may not be a bad idea but I just don't see Allen ever coming back here. He couldn't stick here or in New England. If neither team couldn't find a place on their roster then he just needs to move on.

He is a HECK of a blocker, Belichik liked him for a reason..He made his share of plays..If we get him cheap and he knows McDaniels system I think its a priority tbh..He isnt the greatest, but he is far from a bum..just saying

[Smoke317]

32 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So let me get this right. With your own words you said Doyle was our primary receiver. That is a position in any offense that is considered #1.

And least of all there is no children here so don't go there.

I’ll go where you take things and respond in kind.  So by your logic, Doyle was our primary receiver and thus a number 1.  Correct. He was our starting tight end but should no way ever be our primary receiving target/threat. He’s just not dynamic enough.

 

This is isn’t the 1960’s...  The fact that he was our primary receiver and our offense was anemic is proof enough.  We needed a lot more of Doyle’s targets going to more dynamic playmakers.  That’s not Doyle’s fault but our OC & under-performing receivers’ fault.  Doyle did his job and to the best of his ability.  Every team needs a solid and dependable guy that you know is gonna bring in the catch more often than not.  I’m happy we had/have him.

[Shadow_Creek]

Just now, jshipp23 said:

He is a HECK of a blocker, Belichik liked him for a reason..He made his share of plays..If we get him cheap and he knows McDaniels system I think its a priority tbh..He isnt the greatest, but he is far from a bum..just saying

i honestly don't see us bringing him back either. Hes injury prone and isn't the same person he was when we drafted him. 

[Smoke317]

19 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Children?  Just what does a difference of opinion makes you think you are smarter, more mature, above or whatever you think you are over those who have a difference of opinion?

It’s not a difference of option.  It’s you guys conflating what I’m saying to what the OP said.  I never said to get rid of Doyle.  I never said he wasn’t a starting tight end in the league.  I simply said he should not be our primary option on offense like he was this year.  You guys went in on me like I said he was a bum and shouldn’t be in the league or something.  

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

No. The words I said imply that Doyle is indeed our starting tight end but he should not ever lead our offense in catches or targets. Not if we plan on having a top flight offense.  30 less targets and 20 or so less catches would be more of a normal season for Doyle if Luck was playing and we were targeting our wide receivers and backs more.  

 

That would put him right in line with most other tight ends in the league. And there’s no shame in that.  And yes that would make him a starting tight end.  80 catches on 107/108 targets is not optimum though and should never be considered the norm.  I guess we’ll see next year if we get back to being a top 10 offense and he puts up those numbers, I will gladly admit that I underestimated his capabilities. I don’t foresee that happening though. 

Even in 2016 Doyle was rated 11th in catches. That was when Allen was still on the roster.

He also lead the league with the least dropped passes by a TE.  Sorry, that makes you a #1 in my book and a whole lot of fans eyes.

[jshipp23]

Jack Doyle isn't a #1....good player, but not a #1 guy. .

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Smoke317 said:

It’s not a difference of option.  It’s you guys conflating what I’m saying to what the OP said.  I never said to get rid of Doyle.  I never said he wasn’t a starting tight end in the league.  I simply said he should not be our primary option on offense like he was this year.  You guys went in on me like I said he was a bum and shouldn’t be in the league or something.  

You are the one who called those who don't share your opinion children. Pretty simple.

[Smoke317]

And I have no desire to bring Allen back.  Doyle may not block as good as Allen but I trust Doyle to make the catches on passes thrown to him.  I’ve never had that trust in Allen.  Give me Doyle all day over Allen.  Graham would be a difference maker but I hear that he’s looking to finally really cash in and I see no way we pay him ridiculous money.  Plus he’s useless as a blocker.  But boy would he be a matchup nightmare. 

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Jack Doyle isn't a #1....good player, but not a #1 guy. .

So stats lie? OK, if you say so.

[Smoke317]

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

You are the one who called those who don't share your opinion children. Pretty simple.

What I said was pretty simple and clear.  Why was the reason you and Hector couldn’t understand it then?

[jshipp23]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So stats lie? OK, if you say so.

Yards per catch,  YAC, look it up. .

[Smoke317]

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Even in 2016 Doyle was rated 11th in catches. That was when Allen was still on the roster.

He also lead the league with the least dropped passes by a TE.  Sorry, that makes you a #1 in my book and a whole lot of fans eyes.

You’re still responding to me like I’m the OP...  Let me simplify things for you.  Should Doyle be the primary focus of our offense?  Should he get 108 targets next year (the same amount as TY & far more than everyone else on the roster)?  I’m not asking if he’s a starting tight end (or #1 as you hector & the OP seem to be debating) but should he be the primary focus of our offense?  Yes or No?  I say No.

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

What I said was pretty simple and clear.  Why was the reason you and Hector couldn’t understand it then?

That is simple also. A difference of opinion.

The offense was what it was. Doyle stepped up and became the primary receiver because he was good enough to do so. He was the one receiver on the team that could be trusted and the safety valve on the team. That is exactly why he is a #1.

[jshipp23]

We can afford Graham, top guard,  and top edge,  and have plenty in the bank after signing Vinatieri,  Melvin,  and Desir..Even mewhort cheap...

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, jshipp23 said:

Yards per catch,  YAC, look it up. .

That is not how TEs are rated. Maybe to you but not according to NFL stats.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, jshipp23 said:

We can afford Graham, top guard,  and top edge,  and have plenty in the bank after signing Vinatieri,  Melvin,  and Desir..Even mewhort cheap...

TE is the least of our problems. We have Doyle, Swoops, Travis, Daniels, Vander Laan and Williams. There is no need to spend high dollar on another TE besides Doyle.

[coltsnation]

Doyle is a top 10 TE in the league, borderline top 5, TE isn't the most important position either.

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

You’re still responding to me like I’m the OP...  Let me simplify things for you.  Should Doyle be the primary focus of our offense?  Should he get 108 targets next year (the same amount as TY & far more than everyone else on the roster)?  I’m not asking if he’s a starting tight end (or #1 as you hector & the OP seem to be debating) but should he be the primary focus of our offense?  Yes or No?  I say No.

So what you were bringing up was off topic? And you wonder why there was confusion?

[oldunclemark]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

Everything I said is true. If Luck was healthy, everyone else would get more targets. Not just the check downs to our tight end..  I get it. Doyle’s a local guy and you think he’s the greatest tight end in the world.  We’ll just agree to disagree.  

I think 80 catches is 80 catches.....

......Your theory that his 80 catches exist because our WRs aren't good is just not logic'

something isn't true simply because you dreamed it up

You cant seriously believe that a tight end gets open and catches 80 passes because his team's wide receivers are bad....

 

When Dallas Clark caught 100 was it because Reggie Wayne couldnt get open??

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Smoke317 said:

I’m not overthinking anything. You’re undethinking things.  If a possession tight end like Doyle is catching 90-100 passes that means our game breaking wide receivers and backs aren’t catching enough passes and making chunk plays.  And trust, if we had a 2nd tight end worth anything this year, Doyle wouldn’t have caught 80 catches...  

 

And that’s no knock on Doyle.  He’s solid and dependable like I said.  I’m not advocating to get rid of him.  Im saying he should not be the focus of our offense. Not the first or 2nd focus for that matter which is what 90-100 catches signify. Think on this, as great as Doyle’s stats were (as far as catches), why were we one of the worst offenses in the league? Why didn’t Doyle’s 80 catches set the league on fire?

 

He didn't set the league on fire because he's limited athletically.    I think his average per catch is roughly 10 yards per catch.    That's not a number that sets the league on fire.

 

He's a good solid TE.   I don't see a problem with that.  

[Smoke317]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So what you were bringing up was off topic? And you wonder why there was confusion?

 

  Excuses.  Simple reading comprehension should leave no room for confusion.  Anyway, we’ll just leave it there.  Enjoy your evening.

[jshipp23]

1 minute ago, oldunclemark said:

I think 80 catches is 80 catches.....

......Your theory that his 80 catches exist because our WRs aren't good is just not logic'

something isn't true simply because you dreamed it up

You cant seriously believe that a tight end gets open and catches 80 passes because his team's wide receivers are bad....

 

When Dallas Clark caught 100 was it because Reggie Wayne couldnt get open??

We don't have Reggie Wayne running out that tunnel..We got Chester Rogers..js

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

 

  Excuses.  Simple reading comprehension should leave no room for confusion.  Anyway, we’ll just leave it there.  Enjoy your evening.

So now you revert to insults?  I enjoy every evening as long as I have no problems within my family.