Basham

[crazycolt1]

42 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Brissett has played well enough to keep us in every game he's played in since he started. If anything you can argue that he's been a blessing for Pagano, and Chuck's squandered 2nd half lead after 2nd half lead in spite of Brissett's decent backup play.

Brissett is responsible for at least two losses from throwing pick sixes.  But yet that was Pagano's fault too I suppose.  

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I was open-minded coming into this season and was totally willing to give Chuck the benefit of the doubt, and let him coach a year without being handcuffed to Grigson, and what'd we get? The worst season, by far, in the Chuck Pagano era, and we're not even halfway through yet.

He was still handcuffed to Grigson and still is. He still has to try to coach the players Grigson brought in. So Grigsons prints are still all over this team.

[Mameluc]

26 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

He was still handcuffed to Grigson and still is. He still has to try to coach the players Grigson brought in. So Grigsons prints are still all over this team.

Defense starts a around 7-8 new players. He is not coaching a grigson built defense. He is just bad.

 

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Mameluc said:

Defense starts a around 7-8 new players. He is not coaching a grigson built defense. He is just bad.

 

Offensive line?

So let me get this correct? Pagano is expected to take young inexperienced players and make good starters out of them? He is suppose to take linebackers who lack the talent to play the 3-4 defense? OK, if you say so.

[jvan1973]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Brissett has played well enough to keep us in every game he's played in since he started. If anything you can argue that he's been a blessing for Pagano, and Chuck's squandered 2nd half lead after 2nd half lead in spite of Brissett's decent backup play.

If he is limited in his knowledge of the playbook,   only so many in game adjustments can be made.   He can't even audible yet

[NewColtsFan]

13 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He really doesn’t like playing guys that he actually has to coach up & develop. It’s an annoying part of the job that he just doesn’t care for.

 

And you know this....     How?!?

 

Where?    Does?   This?    Come?   From?

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I was open-minded coming into this season and was totally willing to give Chuck the benefit of the doubt, and let him coach a year without being handcuffed to Grigson, and what'd we get? The worst season, by far, in the Chuck Pagano era, and we're not even halfway through yet.

 

We have the worst team in the Pagano  era because we don't have a quarterback.

 

No Andrew Luck equals no chance of 500.

 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

My opinion on this is that although Grigson was horrible, I don't believe he was horrible to the extent that Pagano couldn't coach up any of the rookies. His track record with coaching up rookies has been absymal. Almost none of the draft picks have continually gotten better year after year under Pagano. If anything, they've regressed. This class is ok so far, but who knows if they will continue to grow. Then you can't use the Grigson excuse anymore.

 

Repeating the same false premise over and over and over again does not make it true.

 

You made the same claim on Pagano last week and I listed all the young players that Pags has coached up.

 

THEN, I went a step FURTHER and listed  all the players that flamed out here and asked who has gone elsewhere and become a better player?   

 

And and the answer was.....   NO ONE!!

 

No one that Pags screwed up in your judgement has gone elsewhere and turned into something.    It hasn't happened.

 

So your view on Pagano has been proven to be completely false.

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, csmopar said:

Look, I understand you have a thing for Pagano and adore him, but stop putting words into my mouth.  If you can't carry a conversation without making false accusations as to what I blame Pagano for, then stop reading/responding to my post or go elsewhere

A thing and adore? Now who is putting horse dung down?

I think Pagano is a good coach. I also think he is getting a raw deal and too many want him to be the scrap goat. He had that hanging on him because he wasn't fired last year like some of you would have liked. He has been under the microscope by some of you and any move he makes you scrutinize and amplify.

For you to word you comment as I have a thing for him and adore him I take it as an insult.

No, maybe it's time you go elsewhere.

[Mameluc]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Offensive line?

So let me get this correct? Pagano is expected to take young inexperienced players and make good starters out of them? He is suppose to take linebackers who lack the talent to play the 3-4 defense? OK, if you say so.

I was talking about the defense because thats where his supposed mastery is coming from. It has been reported he lets chud take over the Offense by holder. 

 

As for inexperienced, id argue simon, hankins, woods, sheard, davis, hooker, rashad, anderson, wilson is better than anything manusky had and they looked less lost. This defense looks like on fthe worst defenses

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

I was talking about the defense because thats where his supposed mastery is coming from. It has been reported he lets chud take over the Offense by holder. 

 

As for inexperienced, id argue simon, hankins, woods, sheard, davis, hooker, rashad, anderson, wilson is better than anything manusky had and they looked less lost. This defense looks like on fthe worst defenses

And how many of the players you have listed have been injured and not been able to all play at the same time?

[csmopar]

55 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

A thing and adore? Now who is putting horse dung down?

I think Pagano is a good coach. I also think he is getting a raw deal and too many want him to be the scrap goat. He had that hanging on him because he wasn't fired last year like some of you would have liked. He has been under the microscope by some of you and any move he makes you scrutinize and amplify.

For you to word you comment as I have a thing for him and adore him I take it as an insult.

No, maybe it's time you go elsewhere.

once again you keep lumping me into that group. I'm not. Yes I've said I'd wished he'd been fired or would be fired already. However, after Grigs was fired and the reports of Grigs meddling in the affairs of the head coach, I was on here in full agreement to give the guy a fair shot without Grigs. I have him that chance. And frankly, still do

 

As for him being judged, im judged every day at work, by my bosses, my clients and my coworkers. It may not be on a mass public fam crazed level but I'm not on TV or in professional sports. As the head coach of any team, that is part of the life. It's not being unfair in any shape or form. 

 

As for offending you, get over it. the way in which you do adamantly defend Pagano shows that you do in fact have a thing for him. Heck, you described that "thing" in your own dang post. You also adore him as a coach, you said so yourself just above.  I'm not suggesting you have some wierd fetish or romance for Pagano. 

 

As ive said numerous times , convince me as to why I should side with the Keep Pagano crowd?  Give me reasons other than injuries or the obvious Grigson failures to put talent on this team. Show me where he has actually outcoached teams , show me where he's learned from his own mistakes such as play calling. Show me he knows how to get a team to play 60 minutes. 

[Mameluc]

23 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

And how many of the players you have listed have been injured and not been able to all play at the same time?

everyteam deals with injuries, including manusky defense.

 

Excuses

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

once again you keep lumping me into that group. I'm not. Yes I've said I'd wished he'd been fired or would be fired already. However, after Grigs was fired and the reports of Grigs meddling in the affairs of the head coach, I was on here in full agreement to give the guy a fair shot without Grigs. I have him that chance. And frankly, still do

 

As for him being judged, im judged every day at work, by my bosses, my clients and my coworkers. It may not be on a mass public fam crazed level but I'm not on TV or in professional sports. As the head coach of any team, that is part of the life. It's not being unfair in any shape or form. 

 

As for offending you, get over it. the way in which you do adamantly defend Pagano shows that you do in fact have a thing for him. Heck, you described that "thing" in your own dang post. You also adore him as a coach, you said so yourself just above.  I'm not suggesting you have some wierd fetish or romance for Pagano. 

 

As ive said numerous times , convince me as to why I should side with the Keep Pagano crowd?  Give me reasons other than injuries or the obvious Grigson failures to put talent on this team. Show me where he has actually outcoached teams , show me where he's learned from his own mistakes such as play calling. Show me he knows how to get a team to play 60 minutes. 

I adore my wife and my family. Pagano is a coach. Like I said you insulted me so just move on.

[jameszeigler834]

7 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

everyteam deals with injuries, including manusky defense.

 

Excuses

Agreed.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Mameluc said:

everyteam deals with injuries, including manusky defense.

 

Excuses

You want Pagano fired. I don't. Enough said.

[akcolt]

9 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

You want Pagano fired. I don't. Enough said.

You think we should keep Pagano around after this season? I thought he might be better with Grigs gone but I've seen enough. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, akcolt said:

You think we should keep Pagano around after this season? I thought he might be better with Grigs gone but I've seen enough. 

Yes I do. Pagano was set up for a fall before this season even started.

Pagano is the least of problems this team has IMO.

[csmopar]

12 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

I adore my wife and my family. Pagano is a coach. Like I said you insulted me so just move on.

 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, crazycolt1 said:

Yes I do. Pagano was set up for a fall before this season even started.

Pagano is the least of problems this team has IMO.

  Man, The Reynolds company must make a fortune with all that tin foil you use

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

 

 

 

 

 

  Man, The Reynolds company must make a fortune with all that tin foil you use

Now you have lowered yourself down to childish cartoons? Figures.

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Now you have lowered yourself down to childish cartoons? Figures.

So using the site provided smilies is childish. Ok fine, whatever. Would you rather me give you a vocabulary lesson?

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

So using the site provided smilies is childish. Ok fine, whatever. Would you rather me give you a vocabulary lesson?

Just because we have a difference of opinion you revert to this?  Sorry, I don't buy into your childish antics.

[csmopar]

9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Just because we have a difference of opinion you revert to this?  Sorry, I don't buy into your childish antics.

No. I did not insult you. Which is why I posted the smilies. They are meant to lighten the mood. 

 

All I'm asking is for you or anyone else that feels that Chuck should be retained as head coach to use valid reasons other than injuries or Grigsons mistakes. If that can't be done, then there in itself lies the answer

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

No. I did not insult you. Which is why I posted the smilies. They are meant to lighten the mood. 

 

All I'm asking is for you or anyone else that feels that Chuck should be retained as head coach to use valid reasons other than injuries or Grigsons mistakes. If that can't be done, then there in itself lies the answer

No one needs to explain anything to you. I have already explained why I have my opinion. If that is not enough for you look somewhere else. It's not rocket science.

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

No one needs to explain anything to you. I have already explained why I have my opinion. If that is not enough for you look somewhere else. It's not rocket science.

I never said anyone "needs" to answer that question. I merely asking for a discussion on it. Asking, not demanding. If you're not willing or able to discuss and provide evidence to support your hypothesis to someone who is open to supporting your position then why are you even on a "fan discussion forum?"

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

I never said anyone "needs" to answer that question. I merely asking for a discussion on it. Asking, not demanding. If you're not willing or able to discuss and provide evidence to support your hypothesis to someone who is open to supporting your position then why are you even on a "fan discussion forum?"

I have explained myself. There is no more I can say. Is that plain enough for you? How many times do I have to say the same thing over and over? This subject has already been discussed for over a year on too many threads. If you haven't made up your mind on what side of the fence you are standing quit asking me to repeat myself over and over. My God, enough already.

[csmopar]

13 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

I have explained myself. There is no more I can say. Is that plain enough for you? How many times do I have to say the same thing over and over? This subject has already been discussed for over a year on too many threads. If you haven't made up your mind on what side of the fence you are standing quit asking me to repeat myself over and over. My God, enough already.

Fair enough. I guess we won't be seeing any more posts from you saying Pagano should stay then, I mean, you've said that many times too. Have a good day 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Fair enough. I guess we won't be seeing any more posts from you saying Pagano should stay then, I mean, you've said that many times too. Have a good day 

Well for one thing, I wont be seeing anything said by you anymore period. I normally save my ignore button for obnoxious Patriot fans but you are the exception.

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Well for one thing, I wont be seeing anything said by you anymore period. I normally save my ignore button for obnoxious Patriot fans but you are the exception.

 I'm so hurt 

 

 

 

have a good day

 

[Chucklez]

On 30/10/2017 at 3:50 AM, Defjamz26 said:

There are countless examples

 

-2012 Vick Ballard (Donald Brown started over him for a few games)

-2014 Donte Moncrief played behind Hakeem Nicks and then Andre Johnson in 2015. He went in to out-produce both each respective year.

-Marlon Mack 2 carries (we all remember this one)

-Didn’t start Hooker week 1

-Anderson behind Arthur Jones

-Jonathan Newsome in 2014 despite leading the team in sacks that year.

 

And injuries are the only reason Anderson and Mewhort saw extensive rookie action. If not for those injuries they’d be on the list too.

Is this a joke? This is your extensive list of players being stifled?

 

Lol at Hooker not playing week 1 and Donald Brown starting over Ballard for a few weeks making the list!

[Chucklez]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

So using the site provided smilies is childish. Ok fine, whatever. Would you rather me give you a vocabulary lesson?

* Would you rather I gave you a vocabulary lesson?

 

You're welcome and no charge.... The first one is free. 

 

[csmopar]

2 hours ago, Chucklez said:

* Would you rather I gave you a vocabulary lesson?

 

You're welcome and no charge.... The first one is free. 

 

Well played sir, well played though wouldn't that actually be a grammar lesson?

[IndyScribe]

Great for the rookie. Glad he got his first sack.

[Mameluc]

18 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

You want Pagano fired. I don't. Enough said.

im baffled that you dont. 

What makes you like him? His amazing time management? The fact the team gets embarrased a lot ? they are never ready?

 

Also calm down, its a forum. People will disagree with you.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, Mameluc said:

im baffled that you dont. 

What makes you like him? His amazing time management? The fact the team gets embarrased a lot ? they are never ready?

I have explained my opinion many times. This subject has been discussed too many times over the last couple of years so I am not going into it anymore.

At least you were cordial in your comment. Most just want to attack and insult me because I have a different opinion.

[TheMarine]

I do not buy into the "Pagano was setup to fail" this year. 

 

Facts: Irsay said he was willing to experience multiple seasons of hurt to build this team back up correctly. This, to me, indicated that if Pagano was successful, he'd be the man going forward. 

Pagano has been (by all reports) wide berth in how he manages players outside of Grigson's control. We see this in fact by

1.  

• Basham not getting playing time until he improved
• Quincy Wilson not getting play time until he showed maturity despite being a #2 pick

The only instance where it appears that Ballard obviously stepped in was the trade for Brissett

 

So, what have we continued to see?
Continued lack in fundamental football, IE Tackling/Blocking

Further Offensive line regression apart from Kelly
Continued poor clock management and football sense (Challenges, time-outs, etc)

Continued lack of creativity in scheme on both sides of the football (Chud's best season was his plan around Hasselbeck)

Dear god that across the field lateral on a Punt return

 

I don't believe that Pagano is the head coach for football adversity. He's the rah-rah leader who'll keep a team flying high and believing in itself, until there is a setback. Then another setback. Then another. Then his message wears out on the men he's supposed to be leading. The players stop doing the dirty work needed when things stop going their way like lunging for a 1st down. Selling out over the middle. Putting their hands up to possibly block a pass if the rush isnt going to make it. Routes no longer exactly at 5 yards. 

 

As an individual, Pagano is amazing, as is anyone  who can remain so up-beat after beating Cancer. But, this isn't Cancer, this is the NFL. Reggie's orange gloves are a symbol of a generation that is no longer in that clubhouse. 

[crazycolt1]

12 minutes ago, TheMarine said:

I do not buy into the "Pagano was setup to fail" this year. 

 

Facts: Irsay said he was willing to experience multiple seasons of hurt to build this team back up correctly. This, to me, indicated that if Pagano was successful, he'd be the man going forward. 

Pagano has been (by all reports) wide berth in how he manages players outside of Grigson's control. We see this in fact by

1.  

• Basham not getting playing time until he improved
• Quincy Wilson not getting play time until he showed maturity despite being a #2 pick

The only instance where it appears that Ballard obviously stepped in was the trade for Brissett

 

So, what have we continued to see?
Continued lack in fundamental football, IE Tackling/Blocking

Further Offensive line regression apart from Kelly
Continued poor clock management and football sense (Challenges, time-outs, etc)

Continued lack of creativity in scheme on both sides of the football (Chud's best season was his plan around Hasselbeck)

Dear god that across the field lateral on a Punt return

 

I don't believe that Pagano is the head coach for football adversity. He's the rah-rah leader who'll keep a team flying high and believing in itself, until there is a setback. Then another setback. Then another. Then his message wears out on the men he's supposed to be leading. The players stop doing the dirty work needed when things stop going their way like lunging for a 1st down. Selling out over the middle. Putting their hands up to possibly block a pass if the rush isnt going to make it. Routes no longer exactly at 5 yards. 

 

As an individual, Pagano is amazing, as is anyone  who can remain so up-beat after beating Cancer. But, this isn't Cancer, this is the NFL. Reggie's orange gloves are a symbol of a generation that is no longer in that clubhouse. 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I have stated my opinion and the reasons I have that opinion. There are reasons things happen and Pagano has been dealt a no winning hand.

With that said I respect you opinion and don't feel the need to ridicule you in any way like I have been because of my difference of opinion.

Not only have I been ridiculed, I have been out and out insulted at times.

It's sad a person can't have a different opinion in an open forum without being attacked. I can say I can't recall letting any of this get personal enough to attack, insult and or ridicule anyone who has a difference of opinion and or a point of view.

 

[TheMarine]

17 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I have stated my opinion and the reasons I have that opinion. There are reasons things happen and Pagano has been dealt a no winning hand.

With that said I respect you opinion and don't feel the need to ridicule you in any way like I have been because of my difference of opinion.

Not only have I been ridiculed, I have been out and out insulted at times.

It's sad a person can't have a different opinion in an open forum without being attacked. I can say I can't recall letting any of this get personal enough to attack, insult and or ridicule anyone who has a difference of opinion and or a point of view.

 

 

Its the internet. People say dumb stuff all the time. Its dumb to make it personal

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, TheMarine said:

 

Its the internet. People say dumb stuff all the time. Its dumb to make it personal

I agree but I guess since we all have something in common in this forum it might be different. It's easier to join the masses than be different.

[CheezyColt]

Anybody have any more thoughts on Basham? Please?