I Am Still In Favor Of Rebuidling It All....including At Qb

[FireJimCaldwell]

West coast offense is a very broad term. More than anything else, it refers to an offense that utilizes timing routes and short passes, allows the quarterback to make several reads, and sends most of the receivers out rather than keeping players in to block. Every team that uses a so-called WCO doesn't do it exactly how Bill Walsh did it, and you don't necessarily need a mobile quarterback. It's a concept that allows you to use short passes rather than using the running game to set up deep throws.

I don't know what about Houston's offense makes anyone thing WCO, because they pound the ball and then run bootlegs to throw the ball deep. It's pretty much the opposite of the WCO.

That said, most teams use principles of WCO. Including us. But that's not the answer to what ailed us this season. The problem was that the quarterbacks weren't good. Collins wasn't a good fit for us because we throw quick and to receivers that haven't broken open yet. Painter struggled with accuracy and making reads. Orlovsky benefited from some changes we made and the softer part of our schedule, but he wasn't anything special and neither was the offense when he was running it. It's as simple as the fact that our quarterbacks sucked, and our coaches didn't do enough to adjust for them.

By all accounts, Andrew Luck doesn't suck. And hopefully, our offensive coaches are better than they were last season. No one can do what Manning has done, but that doesn't mean we have to completely change what's made him so good. If we move on from him, then yes, it makes sense to implement something that's more friendly to other quarterbacks. But if we keep him, we should accommodate him.

I guess we have a complete disagreement about the offense we've run over the past 13 years, which to me says nothing West Coast Offense or any of it's hybrids.

Yeah everyone has timing routes, and such, but conceptually we are nothing like any of those teams, and Houston has altered it, to take on the talents of Andre Johnson which is something good coaches do. Kubiak's offense is a close replica to what Denver ran for years with Elway and Shanahan, that is where he cut his teeth. The WCO has morphed far from Bill Walsh with the bunch set in Tampa that Gruden had, the way they have added the Shotgun in Green Bay, and the the boot package in Denver/Houston, but they are still built off of the same concepts.

Concepts our offense(Manning's offense) doesn't stem from.

I don't think Andrew Luck sucks by any means but I see him struggling if we simply try to replace Manning with him. If we installed a WCO, similar to what he ran in college, then I think he would be a better player much quicker and we would have a system in place that would allow a back up QB to have a fighting chance.

[Case]

Lol you dont know if those QB's put in the work or not, luck seems like a very good QB but its wise not to crown him a savior when he hasnt played a down in the NFL yet.. he may have came from a "pro style offense" but he never went against actual NFL players.. lets just hope that if he is the QB the colts take or Griffin that they are successful at the next level.

Actually I do know that Carr Russell and leinhert didn't put in the work because that's been said about then several times since. They are last ones in first ones out. "lol"

[Superman]

If we started with a WCO, it has sufficiently morphed to the point where it is unrecognizable by QBs who have familiarity with the WCO, like Collins. Other QBs like Painter who have been in our system for 2 years cannot grasp it enough to operate it efficiently (OK, maybe a lack of talent has something to do with this). Orlovsky didn't have enough time. Our offense is PM-centric as it is now. If Arians rebuilds our Offense to something that is not PM-centric, I will think this is a truly rebuilding team, rather than a facelift on the same ol' same ol'. If he does rebuild it, PM and any QB will start afresh. And perhaps the new offense will be more efficient/effective when there is a Porsche running it rather than a Maybach. Who knows? Maybe the Maybach can morph into a Porsche. Maybe the Porsche may morph into a faster upgraded Porsche.

Kerry Collins is not a WCO quarterback. He doesn't throw timing routes, he throws to receivers who are wide open, and mostly outside the hashes. He's a statue in the pocket. He was a terrible fit.

I'm not saying it's wrong to make changes to the offense. I'm just saying we don't need to overhaul everything and get rid of our best and most important player in order to "rebuild."

[FireJimCaldwell]

Kerry Collins is not a WCO quarterback. He doesn't throw timing routes, he throws to receivers who are wide open, and mostly outside the hashes. He's a statue in the pocket. He was a terrible fit.

I'm not saying it's wrong to make changes to the offense. I'm just saying we don't need to overhaul everything and get rid of our best and most important player in order to "rebuild."

Collins would have had a far better chance to win running a WCO than he did trying to run our offense.

I don't think we need to get rid of Manning to rebuild either, but I would prefer a change in direction of the offense with him in place, so whoever the back up qb may be can have a better chance than what we had this past year.

[Colts#1fan]

Ok I'm new to this.

IMO...Why would you want to rebuild a team without one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Ya I know he is getting up in years but Manning works hard at what he does. People keep saying to throw Luck in and move on from Manning. Sounds a bit crazy to me. I want to win now. And Manning gives us the best chance to win. It takes leadership to rebuild. You have to have a solid foundation before you can rebuild a house. Also you need experience. All this about throwing Peyton away is crazy and I hope the colts organization keeps him. Play Manning and Win play a new Qb and ?...

[ACollie17]

Now after hearing Peyton is cleared for football, I'm leaning more towards possibly trading that #1 overall as long as Peyton's recovery keeps progressing. Think about what we would get from a guy like Dan Snyder in Washington or Stephen Ross in Miami for that pick. They would give the HOUSE for Andrew Luck. Maybe event the Browns would be interested, and they have the 4th and 22nd overall picks. In many people's opinion it wouldn't make sense to give up that pick, but the value you could get in return would be unbelievable. Irsay could push it far enough to get talent to be immediate Super Bowl contenders IMO because teams like Washington and Miami would die for that pick. I'm a big advocate of drafting Luck, I really am. But if 18 will come back as 18, we could finally surround him with what he needs by trading that pick. No cap hit on us, just talent in return and with that talent we could have an explosive offense lead by Peyton like what's been here for the past decade and either immediate talent or draft picks to use mainly on defense (or at least what I would focus on in the draft.)

[BProland85]

Years of poor drafting and mismanagemet have caused this mess to happen. In 2010 we saw it start to fall apart with nearly losing the divison to the Jaguars. Lack of depth everywhere with injuries.

This past season showed just how bad things have gotten everywhere. There was also again, little depth and most importantly at QB.

With Irsay firing just about everyone it became clear to me (or so I thought) this team was rebuilding.

If you are starting over why do you have Manning? It makes little sense to me. I don't see this as being a SB caliber team anytime soon. Not with a rookie HC. And not with Houston in this division. Be honest with yourselves. Houston even without Schaub was a contender. That is scary. Add in Schaub and they are a top 5 team in just about every statistical category.

You bring back Peyton and not only is it going to be difficult to win a title it's going to be tough to even make the playoffs IMO.

This team has been the Peyton's for years. Personally, I want to see a team again.

This does not mean I don't love and appreciate all Manning has done and hope he has a healthy future. It means I care deeply about the future of this organization as well and I don't think it helps the team or Manning to have them co-exist right now. I really don't.

If this rubs some the wrong way I am sorry.

I had to get this off my chest.

Lastly, there is no reason for the Manning camp to release information this week or to do interviews. It is taking away attention from the two QBs in the SB who deserve the spotlight.

I actually tend to agree with you on this subject. The ONLY way I bring back Manning is if I was absolutely sure Andrew Luck wouldnt pull an Eli and not want us to draft him. Then I would tell him that we would be sitting him for ONE YEAR and one year only. Then we would take trade offers for Peyton after the 2012 season and go with Andrew Luck from then on.

[Smitto]

Actually I do know that Carr Russell and leinhert didn't put in the work because that's been said about then several times since. They are last ones in first ones out. "lol"

Carr was torn up because he was behind a horrid line.. if it wasnt for that he would have been a really good QB and probably still starting now, im looking at recent guys like colt mccoy, brady quinn, if you wanna add him sam bradford.. these guys looked like sure bets coming out of college and the only one that has a bit of success is Bradford.. hopefully luck or griffin whichever they choose dont come out that way

[LUVTHESHOE]

Years of poor drafting and mismanagemet have caused this mess to happen. In 2010 we saw it start to fall apart with nearly losing the divison to the Jaguars. Lack of depth everywhere with injuries.

This past season showed just how bad things have gotten everywhere. There was also again, little depth and most importantly at QB.

With Irsay firing just about everyone it became clear to me (or so I thought) this team was rebuilding.

If you are starting over why do you have Manning? It makes little sense to me. I don't see this as being a SB caliber team anytime soon. Not with a rookie HC. And not with Houston in this division. Be honest with yourselves. Houston even without Schaub was a contender. That is scary. Add in Schaub and they are a top 5 team in just about every statistical category.

You bring back Peyton and not only is it going to be difficult to win a title it's going to be tough to even make the playoffs IMO.

This team has been the Peyton's for years. Personally, I want to see a team again.

This does not mean I don't love and appreciate all Manning has done and hope he has a healthy future. It means I care deeply about the future of this organization as well and I don't think it helps the team or Manning to have them co-exist right now. I really don't.

If this rubs some the wrong way I am sorry.

I had to get this off my chest.

Lastly, there is no reason for the Manning camp to release information this week or to do interviews. It is taking away attention from the two QBs in the SB who deserve the spotlight.

You have hit on something very interesting,Manning has never been an attention guy, but for a guy who said this week was about Eli, he sure is talking and being seen alot. I don't mean anything

demeaning by saying this ,but it seems like he is the one trying to rock the boat a little. I love PM, but I really wish he would have laid low this week, and if he can play then the Colts need to sign PM and trade the pick

for multiple picks, Nobody and I mean NOBODY,should expect Luck to come sit quitely and be a good little learner for three years,because that is not going to happen,nor should it.This is gonna be a bad deal either way and

I just hope which ever way this goes,we all stay true to the SHOE. GO COLTS!!!!!

[Jules]

You have hit on something very interesting,Manning has never been an attention guy, but for a guy who said this week was about Eli, he sure is talking and being seen alot. I don't mean anything

demeaning by saying this ,but it seems like he is the one trying to rock the boat a little. I love PM, but I really wish he would have laid low this week, and if he can play then the Colts need to sign PM and trade the pick

for multiple picks, Nobody and I mean NOBODY,should expect Luck to come sit quitely and be a good little learner for three years,because that is not going to happen,nor should it.This is gonna be a bad deal either way and

I just hope which ever way this goes,we all stay true to the SHOE. GO COLTS!!!!!

Between Peyton's comments about not liking the changes, between the ESPN interview that came directly after media day for the SB teams and between today this is tacky.

This is Favre stuff IMO.

The Colts might have a had a horrible season. The Colts might hate it that the Pats of all teams are here. Heck for all we know Peyton's ego might have taken a dive with his baby brother and arch rival in the big one and all the Luck talk.

All I know is I don't like the attitude. Lay low the few weeks before the SB and be a gracious host.

This is all unsettling to me.

[LUVTHESHOE]

Between Peyton's comments about not liking the changes, between the ESPN interview that came directly after media day for the SB teams and between today this is tacky.

This is Favre stuff IMO.

The Colts might have a had a horrible season. The Colts might hate it that the Pats of all teams are here. Heck for all we know Peyton's ego might have taken a dive with his baby brother and arch rival in the big one and all the Luck talk.

All I know is I don't like the attitude. Lay low the few weeks before the SB and be a gracious host.

This is all unsettling to me.

Very un Peyton like for sure.Maybe all the Eli hype is getting to him.

[JWF]

Carr was torn up because he was behind a horrid line.. if it wasnt for that he would have been a really good QB and probably still starting now, im looking at recent guys like colt mccoy, brady quinn, if you wanna add him sam bradford.. these guys looked like sure bets coming out of college and the only one that has a bit of success is Bradford.. hopefully luck or griffin whichever they choose dont come out that way

Playing on an expansion team full of 3rd stringers didnt help either.

I dont think anyone saw McCoy or Quinn as sure things otherwise they would have been taken higher than they were.

I thought Quinn could be a decent pro but the media and fans loved him because he was the QB at Notre Dame.

I think the team still should take Luck regardless how the Manning stuff plays out though. I know it will take a good % of the cap but the team is rebuilding anyways and likely to rely on younger players and cheaper contracts for a while.

[Smitto]

Playing on an expansion team full of 3rd stringers didnt help either.

I dont think anyone saw McCoy or Quinn as sure things otherwise they would have been taken higher than they were.

I thought Quinn could be a decent pro but the media and fans loved him because he was the QB at Notre Dame.

I think the team still should take Luck regardless how the Manning stuff plays out though. I know it will take a good % of the cap but the team is rebuilding anyways and likely to rely on younger players and cheaper contracts for a while.

The colts should not have both QB's on the team... tbh if the colts really wanna be competitive they would go with one QB and if thats peyton they should get a QB later in the draft.. like wool magnet said when it comes down to it all i care about is wins and i doubt two guys taking up 40% of the salary would bring a lot of wins to the table.

[BProland85]

The colts should not have both QB's on the team... tbh if the colts really wanna be competitive they would go with one QB and if thats peyton they should get a QB later in the draft.. like wool magnet said when it comes down to it all i care about is wins and i doubt two guys taking up 40% of the salary would bring a lot of wins to the table.

We should go one of two ways with this...

1) We admit publicy that we are rebuilding and release Manning relieving cap room allowing us to be more flexible in FA. We then draft Andrew Luck no questions.

2) We keep Peyton under a redone deal that is incentive based to cover us if something like last year were to happen again and he couldnt play. We ONLY do this if we are feeling very good about his chances to be healthy and effective next year. Come draft time we trade the #1 pick and 3rd round pick to Cleveland for their 4th and 22nd overall picks, 2012 2nd and 2013 1st round picks.

-Then with draft we get CB Morris Claiborne to sure up the secondary, and then find a way to get NT Dontari Poe with the other 1st round pick. Then with the two 2nd round picks get someone like WR Mohamed Sanu and DE/OLB Vinny Curry.

[JWF]

The colts should not have both QB's on the team... tbh if the colts really wanna be competitive they would go with one QB and if thats peyton they should get a QB later in the draft.. like wool magnet said when it comes down to it all i care about is wins and i doubt two guys taking up 40% of the salary would bring a lot of wins to the table.

Its not going to be 40% of the cap, which is the real issue (it will be roughly 20% I believe). I really dont think Irsay will have a problem paying the bonuses out of his pocket (based off interviews ive heard).

I care about the team winning too. Id also like to see the team continue winning after Manning is done. If Luck is willing to sit I think it would be a mistake to not find a way to make it work. Its not going to be easy to do so but its worth the effort IMO.

Trading down might not even prove worth it either if unless teams really do offer a king's ransom as people expect. Another problem is trading down does not garuntee you will get the player you want (such as Claiborne). And again, it cant be said enough, those players can also be busts just like Luck. No garuntees there either.

[Smitto]

We should go one of two ways with this...

1) We admit publicy that we are rebuilding and release Manning relieving cap room allowing us to be more flexible in FA. We then draft Andrew Luck no questions.

2) We keep Peyton under a redone deal that is incentive based to cover us if something like last year were to happen again and he couldnt play. We ONLY do this if we are feeling very good about his chances to be healthy and effective next year. Come draft time we trade the #1 pick and 3rd round pick to Cleveland for their 4th and 22nd overall picks, 2012 2nd and 2013 1st round picks.

-Then with draft we get CB Morris Claiborne to sure up the secondary, and then find a way to get NT Dontari Poe with the other 1st round pick. Then with the two 2nd round picks get someone like WR Mohamed Sanu and DE/OLB Vinny Curry.

I definitely like the sound of that, the colts are prime to really shape the next decade of football this year with the moves the make in the few months to come

[OnlyLocalTeamEverLiked]

I do not post on here very often, just enjoy reading other peoples thoughts. But for everyone who wants to get rid of Manning because the team needs a total "rebuild" as seen from this last season, what is your back-up plan for qb if Luck or RG III gets injured or is unproductive. I am for drafting another qb with the first pick, but are you people suggesting we use 2 picks for qbs or dive into free agency and spend a decent amount for another quality qb that can fill the need if required?

[Smitto]

Its not going to be 40% of the cap, which is the real issue (it will be roughly 20% I believe). I really dont think Irsay will have a problem paying the bonuses out of his pocket (based off interviews ive heard).

I care about the team winning too. Id also like to see the team continue winning after Manning is done. If Luck is willing to sit I think it would be a mistake to not find a way to make it work. Its not going to be easy to do so but its worth the effort IMO.

Trading down might not even prove worth it either if unless teams really do offer a king's ransom as people expect. Another problem is trading down does not garuntee you will get the player you want (such as Claiborne). And again, it cant be said enough, those players can also be busts just like Luck. No garuntees there either.

No its actually gonna be 40+% of the cap combining peytons and lucks signing bonus plus peytons salary. 50+mil... Clairborne is not gonna be taken by any team that is slotted in 2 or 3 and no team will trade up for a CB in the first round so yea he's pretty much a given to stay there.... QB's have a higher chance of being busts than any other position because of their job...

http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2012/01/20/the-cost-of-having-manning-and-luck-together-in-2012/

[WeSpy]

Ryan Grigson was on set today with the some analysts from the NFL. You can check out the video by going to the link listed below. Once you get there it is pretty self-explanatory. You do have to scroll up through the segment list about 3/4 of the way to find his interview. I came away with some interesting thoughts...

http://www.nfl.com/s...6/live/thursday

[Scipio]

The colts should not have both QB's on the team... tbh if the colts really wanna be competitive they would go with one QB and if thats peyton they should get a QB later in the draft.. like wool magnet said when it comes down to it all i care about is wins and i doubt two guys taking up 40% of the salary would bring a lot of wins to the table.

Having both Manning and Luck would not be 40% of the cap. ~23M is like around 20% of the cap.

[Jules]

I am not convinced that Team Luck will allow him to come here either if Peyton stays.

[JWF]

No its actually gonna be 40+% of the cap combining peytons and lucks signing bonus plus peytons salary. 50+mil... Clairborne is not gonna be taken by any team that is slotted in 2 or 3 and no team will trade up for a CB in the first round so yea he's pretty much a given to stay there.... QB's have a higher chance of being busts than any other position because of their job...

http://blogs.thescor...gether-in-2012/

Technically it is equal to 40% of the cap (from a pure percentage standpoint) but it does not all count towards* the cap. Manning's cap hit alone isnt even close to 40% and that is where most of the cap hit will be coming from.

The cap hit is roughly 20% (undecided frog broke it down for me). That is still a very significant number but it really boils down to Irsay's willingness to shell out of his own pocket to keep both (since the actual payroll would be well above the cap) and Luck's willingness to sit.

Again im fine with trading down but people just assume the Browns and Redskins will hand us their entire future for the pick. I havnt read anything to suggest they actually would. If the Colts really do think Luck is the real deal, I would imagine they would demand as much.

I see the Browns as the only team that is probably worth trading with. Thats assuming they are willing to part with their 2 1st rounders this year and maybe Phil Taylor + 2nd rounder or a future 1st + a 2nd rounder.

[UndecidedFrog]

No its actually gonna be 40+% of the cap combining peytons and lucks signing bonus plus peytons salary. 50+mil... Clairborne is not gonna be taken by any team that is slotted in 2 or 3 and no team will trade up for a CB in the first round so yea he's pretty much a given to stay there.... QB's have a higher chance of being busts than any other position because of their job...

http://blogs.thescor...gether-in-2012/

You are confusing real dollars with cap dollars. They are not the same.

Peyton's current contract:

2011 Real dollars = 26.4 Cap dollars = 16

2012 Real dollars = 35.4 Cap dollars = 17

2013 Real dollars = 8.4 Cap dollars = 18

2014 Real dollars = 9.4 Cap dollars = 19

2015 Real dollars = 10.4 Cap dollars = 20

Totals: Real dollars = 90 Cap dollars = 90

[Warhorse]

Probably fortunate we made the SB that year. It was still Dungy's team. Fortunate also that we played Flacco and Sanchez to get to the big game. In the SB against a real team and a real QB we got embarrassed. All the weaknesses showed through and even Peyton played a large role in that loss even though most don't admit it.

I know many want to relive the past. Relive Peyton's prime years and all.

I just am not convinced this is our time though right now. Might be again, but right now I am not feeling that it is.

Sure the Colts beat two teams in the division last year. It happens. Just ask the Saints because the Bucs often get them once a year too.

This team is a mess. Not even Peyton at age 36 is going to patch up all these holes in one offseason with a rookie HC and a rookie GM.

Sorry, but as sad as I was to lose that SB, we did not get embarrassed. That is a gross overstatement. When we got bounced out of the playoffs by the Jets (2003?) at a score of 40 something to zero....THAT is getting embarrassed. You may have felt embarrassed, but the team was not IMO.

[JWF]

Sorry, but as sad as I was to lose that SB, we did not get embarrassed. That is a gross overstatement. When we got bounced out of the playoffs by the Jets (2003?) at a score of 40 something to zero....THAT is getting embarrassed. You may have felt embarrassed, but the team was not IMO.

Agreed. The SB loss hurt more but the Jets game was easily the most embarassing playoff game. Most embarassing regular season game awards go to 62-7 this year and 375 against the Jags in 2006.

[TheNextGM]

If Manning is healthy and can give you 3 or 4 more years.. than you trade the #1 pick, load up the defensive side of the ball for the new coaches to mold, and go after Championships! By the time Manning is done you should be able to find his eventual replacement in one of the next few year's drafts and you have a defense ready to carry a rookie QB.

The NFL stands for Not For Long.. when you have opporunities to win championships you don't pass them up for any down-the-road talent!

[Portage Coltfans]

Years of poor drafting and mismanagemet have caused this mess to happen. In 2010 we saw it start to fall apart with nearly losing the divison to the Jaguars. Lack of depth everywhere with injuries.

This past season showed just how bad things have gotten everywhere. There was also again, little depth and most importantly at QB.

With Irsay firing just about everyone it became clear to me (or so I thought) this team was rebuilding.

If you are starting over why do you have Manning? It makes little sense to me. I don't see this as being a SB caliber team anytime soon. Not with a rookie HC. And not with Houston in this division. Be honest with yourselves. Houston even without Schaub was a contender. That is scary. Add in Schaub and they are a top 5 team in just about every statistical category.

You bring back Peyton and not only is it going to be difficult to win a title it's going to be tough to even make the playoffs IMO.

This team has been the Peyton's for years. Personally, I want to see a team again.

This does not mean I don't love and appreciate all Manning has done and hope he has a healthy future. It means I care deeply about the future of this organization as well and I don't think it helps the team or Manning to have them co-exist right now. I really don't.

If this rubs some the wrong way I am sorry.

I had to get this off my chest.

Lastly, there is no reason for the Manning camp to release information this week or to do interviews. It is taking away attention from the two QBs in the SB who deserve the spotlight.

wow, if you were a nurse you would definately be Nurse Rachett from One flew over the Coo Coo's nest

[Jules]

wow, if you were a nurse you would definately be Nurse Rachett from One flew over the Coo Coo's nest

And this is a reason why I was not posting here a lot the last few seasons people.

[Portage Coltfans]

And this is a reason why I was not posting here a lot the last few seasons people.

good, goodbye

[Peyton and Eli fan]

And this is a reason why I was not posting here a lot the last few seasons people.

You definitely have the minority opinion, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't express it.

[UndecidedFrog]

And this is a reason why I was not posting here a lot the last few seasons people.

Contrary to some people who don't want to see differing opinions, I support your right to express them.

I hope you continue to express them here.

[jjcolts]

None of us had any problems with this "being" Peyton's team when we were winning the last 12 years. It is one thing to want to re-build and another to stomp on the people that has given us fans lots to root for these last few years.

Lets look at the future without tarnishing the past.

[UndecidedFrog]

None of us had any problems with this "being" Peyton's team when we were winning the last 12 years. It is one thing to want to re-build and another to stomp on the people that has given us fans lots to root for these last few years.

Lets look at the future without tarnishing the past.

This is not Peyton's team. It is the Colts.

It was the Colts before Peyton Manning, and it will still be the Colts long after he retires.

No player is above the team.

[jjcolts]

This is not Peyton's team. It is the Colts.

It was the Colts before Peyton Manning, and it will still be the Colts long after he retires.

No player is above the team.

wow again we are with this "literal" conversation.

Do you understand that when I say Peyton's team; I don't mean it in a literal terms, do you not understand that. I KNOW he doesn't own the team or part of the team....

It is a figure of speech....this has been Peyton's team for the last decade.....and if you didn't know that then you haven't been following the colts in the last decade.

[Portage Coltfans]

Contrary to some people who don't want to see differing opinions, I support your right to express them.

I hope you continue to express them here.

express away..I agree

[Jules]

If Manning is healthy and can give you 3 or 4 more years.. than you trade the #1 pick, load up the defensive side of the ball for the new coaches to mold, and go after Championships! By the time Manning is done you should be able to find his eventual replacement in one of the next few year's drafts and you have a defense ready to carry a rookie QB.

The NFL stands for Not For Long.. when you have opporunities to win championships you don't pass them up for any down-the-road talent!

What if you are not sold a few rookies from the draft will get this team over the hump even with Peyton if he is at a high level?

I just don't always understand it. This team IMO has been terrible and the cracks started in 2010.

In some ways I feel for Irsay. Bad drafting by Polian over the years and being dinked around by him and his son. Now he has to fix everything and also try to make fans happy at the same time.

[UndecidedFrog]

wow again we are with this "literal" conversation.

Do you understand that when I say Peyton's team; I don't mean it in a literal terms, do you not understand that. I KNOW he doesn't own the team or part of the team....

It is a figure of speech....this has been Peyton's team for the last decade.....and if you didn't know that then you haven't been following the colts in the last decade.

What do you mean by "this being Peyton's team"?

[Portage Coltfans]

wow again we are with this "literal" conversation.

Do you understand that when I say Peyton's team; I don't mean it in a literal terms, do you not understand that. I KNOW he doesn't own the team or part of the team....

It is a figure of speech....this has been Peyton's team for the last decade.....and if you didn't know that then you haven't been following the colts in the last decade.

I'm confused about the problem with it being "Peyton's team" and why anyone would want to change that if he can throw the ball effectivly still?

If you are saying that they built a defense to help keep the lead, then that wasn't Peyton's fault that it didn't work. Blame poor drafting/coaching/rosters for that.

I guess since it was Peyton's team, then it was his fault our special teams are always horrible every year too.

[Jules]

good, goodbye

Hey it might happen again. I had nearly 20,000 posts here on the old forums.

I have been posting on other teams forums this year and have gotten some good perspectives on things.

[jjcolts]

If you read my original post - I have zero problem that this was Peyton's team...all I cared is that our team was winning, winning with poor defense, no running game....doesn't matter ..just winning.