Colt Free Agency Moves

[dw49]

Wonder why we have no pass rush ? Hughes traded for 4 marbles and 1 shooter . Mario Addison was waived , Trent Cole and other pretty bad to ordinary guys signed . Plus not one even decent pass  rusher drafted in last 4-5 years. Pretty pathetic. So now I guess we do a defensive draft like we did an O line draft last year ? I have no faith in this staff to not urinate all the FA  cap money away once again . Probably can't even overpay for C. Jones as AZ will do just that to keep him. 

[CheezyColt]

Do you feel better? 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

The Colts could have a good off season and fix a lot of holes.. could.. 

[jbaron04]

The best off season would start we cuts,  and getting pass rush from draft and fa 

[dw49]

22 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Do you feel better? 

 

 

You are welcome to dispute any of what I said with something other than a one liner ? Or at least give me who Chuck and Ryan "thought" would be rushing the passer in 2016 other than a couple of guys way past their prime ? 

[will426]

We need to get a pass rusher in FA and a another corner go draft an ilb two olbs and dline and rb 

[CheezyColt]

Your post didn't invite any discussion. It was just a "front office sucks" rant... of which there are stickied topics dedicated to just that. It just seems like an entirely pointless/redundant thread to me. By all means, though: carry on.

[dw49]

14 minutes ago, CheezyColt said:

Your post didn't invite any discussion. It was just a "front office sucks" rant... of which there are stickied topics dedicated to just that. It just seems like an entirely pointless/redundant thread to me. By all means, though: carry on.

 

 

So why did you bother to comment ? It's relevant to what's happening today as no pass rush is a major reason why this team is so inept in big games. You obviously have no answers other than the thread sucks. I suggest you exit the thread as you really have nothing to contribute to it. 

[CheezyColt]

1 minute ago, dw49 said:

 

 

So why did you bother to comment ? It's relevant to what's happening today as no pass rush is a major reason why this team is so inept in big games. You obviously have no answers other than the thread sucks. I suggest you exit the thread as you really have nothing to contribute to it. 

Will do. Carry on.

[dw49]

Just now, CheezyColt said:

Will do. Carry on.

 

Adios . Good to see you leaving.

[DougDew]

34 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

You are welcome to dispute any of what I said with something other than a one liner ? Or at least give me who Chuck and Ryan "thought" would be rushing the passer in 2016 other than a couple of guys way past their prime ? 

Von Miller.  But as is reality, the better ones weren't available.

[Bluefire4]

Chandler Jones will be tagged so you can forget about that right now. I said the team would be 7-9 before the season and the main reason was that they ignored pass rush. In free agency our best chance would be getting Melvin Ingram but we still need to find someone in the draft.

[dw49]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Von Miller.  But as is reality, the better ones weren't available.

 

There was some help out there . How about Micheal Bennet , Ware , Avril , Conner Barwin... those are some guys that were pretty cheap. I'm leaving out a few guys that were a ton of money. But of coarse NFL teams find a way to keep there best pass rushers . My point is there was just no plan in place to be in a better position. Plus Hughes and Addison both developed into far better options than were on our 2016 roster. 

[dw49]

3 minutes ago, Bluefire4 said:

Chandler Jones will be tagged so you can forget about that right now. I said the team would be 7-9 before the season and the main reason was that they ignored pass rush. In free agency our best chance would be getting Melvin Ingram but we still need to find someone in the draft.

 

 

Yeah no doubt when you think about Chandler Jones , AZ would not give up so much in that trade to rent him for a year. They would look silly not tagging or resigning him. I too think Ingram should be available . Probably should just bite the bullet  and over pay if he's out there. We'll have a ton a money to spend .There are so many teams with big cap space that Ingram will no doubt get over his market value. 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

There was some help out there . How about Micheal Bennet , Ware , Avril , Conner Barwin... those are some guys that were pretty cheap. I'm leaving out a few guys that were a ton of money. But of coarse NFL teams find a way to keep there best pass rushers . My point is there was just no plan in place to be in a better position. Plus Hughes and Addison both developed into far better options than were on our 2016 roster. 

I agree with you on Addison.  Heck, even when he was here he made a few plays.  The Hughes situation was tough because nobody thought he was any good.  Buffalo never thought they were stealing him when they gave up a mediocre Sheppard to get him.  They got lucky.

 

The other players all may have had less success with the Colts.

 

My beef is when we overpay for FA that don't work, or let players go who are on our team that show promise, more so than failing to sign expensive FA from another team.  You never know how they would perform when surrounded by our roster than the other teams' roster.

[indyagent17]

1 hour ago, CheezyColt said:

Do you feel better? 

Sometimes you just have to cry it out

[rockywoj]

Pretty much EVERBODY and their dog were calling for the Colts to get rid of Jerry Hughes, calling him a bust and a stupid luxury pick, being that the Colts had Mathis and Freeney.  There were very few voices saying to be patient with him, that Hughes had not yet even been given a realistic shot to show what he can do.  

 

When the new staff came in, they raved about his athleticism, but most here just laughed at that notion. Then he was traded, he got used properly and turned into what he was supposed to be and NOW memories are short and people complain that Grigson got rid of the guy (that everybody was screaming for the Colts to get rid of).  

 

 

[dw49]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I agree with you on Addison.  Heck, even when he was here he made a few plays.  The Hughes situation was tough because nobody thought he was any good.  Buffalo never thought they were stealing him when they gave up a mediocre Sheppard to get him.  They got lucky.

 

The other players all may have had less success with the Colts.  My beef is when we overpay for FA that don't work, or let players go who are on our team that show promise, more so than failing to sign expensive FA from another team.  You never know how they would perform when surrounded by our roster than the other teams' roster.

 

 

Avril and Bennet were "steals." I think they would have been fine on any team but In fairness , the Colts weren't the only team that underestimated their ability. I'm just saying that we whiffed in all 3 phases when it came to the pass rush.

 

1) Draft picks

2) Keeping our own

3) Signing FA's

[coach kline]

FA hasn't been good for Colts, let's stick to the draft. 

[Happy2BeHere]

I still don't get why people are so butt hurt about the Jerry Hughes trade. He was not a good player for the Colts and he had virtually proved to be a bust for us. There was no indication he would change so he HAD to be moved.

[dw49]

7 minutes ago, rockywoj said:

Pretty much EVERBODY and their dog were calling for the Colts to get rid of Jerry Hughes, calling him a bust and a stupid luxury pick, being that the Colts had Mathis and Freeney.  There were very few voices saying to be patientwith him, that Hughes had not yet even been given a realistic shot to show what he can do.  

 

When the new staff came in, they raved about his athleticism, but most here just laughed at that notion. Then he was traded, he got used properly and turned into what he was supposed to be and NOW memories are short and people complain that Grigson got rid of the guy (that everybody was screaming for the Colts to get rid of).  

 

 

 

 

I hear you but the thing is Irsay is paying his staff to develop and evaluate the players. Buffalo had to see something in him as they gave up a decent LB to obtain him. Plus Hughes had a pretty decent cap hit as he was in the last year of his rookie contract . Yes.. many on this board wanted him jettisoned but they don't really count for anything.

[dw49]

2 minutes ago, relkins said:

FA hasn't been good for Colts, let's stick to the draft. 

 

 

Other than resign a TE and extend Mewhort , Montcrief and maybe a couple others , what do we do with the approx 60 mill we will have in cap space ? You can't use it to buy draft picks.....

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

Avril and Bennet were "steals." I think they would have been fine on any team but In fairness , the Colts weren't the only team that underestimated their ability. I'm just saying that we whiffed in all 3 phases when it came to the pass rush.

 

1) Draft picks

2) Keeping our own

3) Signing FA's

I thought Avril went to Seattle way beck when we signed Walden.  If he re-upped with Seattle since then, I don't think its fair to blame another GM for not stealing him away.

 

IIRC, Avril had some nice years with his original team, the Detroit Lions.  But he was playing 43 end like Freeney and Mathis were and I don't think he was thought of as being a great fit for our 34.  He probably would have been much better than what we thought at the time, but at that time, we had Mathis (and even Freeney for a year IIRC).

 

I think the real failing is not drafting a replacement for Mathis.  Tried but failed with Werner, and I don't think there have been that many other options given where we have been drafting each year.

[dw49]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I thought Avril went to Seattle way beck when we signed Walden.  If he re-upped with Seattle since then, I don't think its fair to blame another GM for not stealing him away.

 

IIRC, Avril had some nice years with his original team, the Detroit Lions.  But he was playing 43 end like Freeney and Mathis were and I don't think he was thought of as being a great fit for our 34.  He probably would have been much better than what we thought at the time, but at that time, we had Mathis (and even Freeney for a year IIRC).

 

I think the real failing is not drafting a replacement for Mathis.  Tried but failed with Werner, and I don't think there have been that many other options given where we have been drafting each year.

 

Grigson was in his 2nd year ... no ? Plus Freeney was gone in 2013 which is when Avril signed with Seattle. But yes on the 4-3 vs 3-4. 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Grigson wa in his 2nd year ... no ?

I think so.

 

Your OP criticized Grigs for not getting Avril.  I'm saying that at the time he went from Detroit to Seattle, the Colts had Mathis and even Freeney.  The need was for a 34 edge setter like Walden, not a pass rusher to take PT away from the other two.

[dw49]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I think so.

 

Your OP criticized Grigs for not getting Avril.  I'm saying that at the time he went from Detroit to Seattle, the Colts had Mathis and even Freeney.  The need was for a 34 edge setter like Walden, not a pass rusher to take PT away from the other two.

 

 

I'm confused by your remark...

I thought Avril went to Seattle way beck when we signed Walden.  If he re-upped with Seattle since then, I don't think its fair to blame another GM for not stealing him away."

 

I'm thinking you were saying that Grigson was not our GM when Avril was signed as a free agent "BY" Seattle... not when Seattle resigned him. Also Freeney was not with the team in Avril became a free agent . I also just mentioned some good pass rushers that were out there , I didn't really say that Avril was a specific mistake of Grigson be not signing him. You mentioned that there were none available and I just mentioned some I could think of that were not terrible expensive.

 

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Grigson was in his 2nd year ... no ? Plus Freeney was gone in 2013 which is when Avril signed with Seattle. But yes on the 4-3 vs 3-4. 

Ok.  I wasn't sure about Freeney.  But Avril and Mathis were kind of the same player.

 

Again, I think there is fair criticism for not finding a replacement for Mathis in the draft by now.  I suppose Newsome was an attempt. 

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

I'm confused by your remark...

I thought Avril went to Seattle way beck when we signed Walden.  If he re-upped with Seattle since then, I don't think its fair to blame another GM for not stealing him away."

 

I'm thinking you were saying that Grigson was not our GM when Avril was signed as a free agent "BY" Seattle... not when Seattle resigned him. Also Freeney was not with the team in Avril became a free agent . I also just mentioned some good pass rushers that were out there , I didn't really say that Avril was a specific mistake of Grigson be not signing him. You mentioned that there were none available and I just mentioned some I could think of that were not terrible expensive.

 

I'm saying that I don't think Avril was a real option because he was expensive and we already had Mathis (and I thought maybe Freeney).  It seems to me they would have just stolen PT from each other while earning really high cap hits.

[dw49]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think so.

 

Your OP criticized Grigs for not getting Avril.  I'm saying that at the time he went from Detroit to Seattle, the Colts had Mathis and even Freeney.  The need was for a 34 edge setter like Walden, not a pass rusher to take PT away from the other two.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Ok.  I wasn't sure about Freeney.  But Avril and Mathis were kind of the same player.

 

Again, I think there is fair criticism for not finding a replacement for Mathis in the draft by now.  I suppose Newsome was an attempt. 

 

Sure.. I hear you and IMO valid observation. But my point is these two guys really stuck out in every manner in which we could have been looking at a better pass rush over the past few years. Heck... they vine messed up with Freeney. My memory is pretty good. He played on a bad ankle all of 2012 . They let him go as they obviously figured he was done. He signed pretty darn cheap and proved to be a bargain for rushing the passer for other teams. No , he couldn't be a 3 down player for us but would have easily earned his moneys a situational pass rusher.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

 

 

 

Sure.. I hear you and IMO valid observation. But my point is these two guys really stuck out in every manner in which we could have been looking at a better pass rush over the past few years. Heck... they vine messed up with Freeney. My memory is pretty good. He played on a bad ankle all of 2012 . They let him go as they obviously figured he was done. He signed pretty darn cheap and proved to be a bargain for rushing the passer for other teams. No , he couldn't be a 3 down player for us but would have easily earned his moneys a situational pass rusher.

IIRC, Freeney was set to earn $14 million with the Colts and was not interested in taking the kind of pay cut he ultimately did.  NFL business model suggests that Freeney has been paid correctly for what role he has played since leaving the Colts.  That role is not worth $14 million.  I don't think he would play second fiddle to Mathis at that time, but I could be wrong.

 

Although, there was also some comments made by Freeney's camp that said the Colts never even approached him about taking a pay cut, so there's that.

[dw49]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm saying that I don't think Avril was a real option because he was expensive and we already had Mathis (and I thought maybe Freeney).  It seems to me they would have just stolen PT from each other while earning really high cap hits.

 

 

I said that you had a good point with the 4-3 vs 3-4 . I agree Avril didn't look to be a valid fit. As it turned out , he would have been a bargain at that price . Cap hit for next 3 years averages 7 mill per year. 

[Superman]

40 minutes ago, dw49 said:

I hear you but the thing is Irsay is paying his staff to develop and evaluate the players. Buffalo had to see something in him as they gave up a decent LB to obtain him. Plus Hughes had a pretty decent cap hit as he was in the last year of his rookie contract . Yes.. many on this board wanted him jettisoned but they don't really count for anything.

 

Two things here:

 

1) When the fans who wanted Hughes gone are the same ones criticizing the GM a couple years later for trading him, I do think that's a relevant point. Doesn't excuse the GM, of course...

 

2) I've said it before, I think Hughes had a beef with the Colts, and either asked to be traded or wore out his welcome. I would have kept him, but the staff's thinking was that Werner would be a good pass rusher, so Hughes was expendable. And he hadn't really earned his keep to that point. 

[dw49]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

IIRC, Freeney was set to earn $14 million with the Colts and was not interested in taking the kind of pay cut he ultimately did.  NFL business model suggests that Freeney has been paid correctly for what role he has played since leaving the Colts.  That role is not worth $14 million.

 

Although, there was also some comments made by Freeney's camp that said the Colts never even approached him about taking a pay cut, so there's that.

 

That's not what Freeney had to say about the situation. Where are you getting your information that he was demanding 14 mill for 1 year with the Colts and then turn around and sign for 4 miller year with the chargers ? 

 

I can't find anything to back up this ridiculous stance by Freeney ? Who you say the Colts never approached him about taking a pay cut and the Colts don't deny it , I tend to think the Colts thought he was done ? 

 

Hey.. I don't think any one move .. signing , not resigning , keeping .. trading or not trading was egregiously wrong. Just asking what these two guys , Pagano and Grigson , did right in the last 5 years regarding our pass rush ? 

 

1) Was there a good FA signing . We spent a ton of money in two of the 5 years. I see nothing here that worked.

 

2) Draft .. nada  

 

3) Do we see some guys that once were on our roster now being effective pass rushers ? My answer would be yes.

 

So.. strike one.... strike 2 ... strike 3 ?

[dw49]

11 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Two things here:

 

1) When the fans who wanted Hughes gone are the same ones criticizing the GM a couple years later for trading him, I do think that's a relevant point. Doesn't excuse the GM, of course...

 

2) I've said it before, I think Hughes had a beef with the Colts, and either asked to be traded or wore out his welcome. I would have kept him, but the staff's thinking was that Werner would be a good pass rusher, so Hughes was expendable. And he hadn't really earned his keep to that point. 

 

 

Well I guess I'm Ok with criticizing as I never posted for the Colts to jettison Hughes. In fact I thought he showed a little promise in the limited time he had on the field the last year he was on the team.  But in all fairness , I didn't think it was a defining moment going forward. As I've been saying in this thread , we have no pass rush. Zip , nada .. almost zero . Heck can you even be sure we will resign our leading sack guy ? I'm thinking maybe about 50-50 if the price is low enough ?

 

If people want to dispute me and defend management they should bring up the fact that Langford can provide very good push and he essentially missed 2016 but I'm not going to bring that up. Plus Anderson was very slow to recover from that knee surgery.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, dw49 said:

Well I guess I'm Ok with criticizing as I never posted for the Colts to jettison Hughes. In fact I thought he showed a little promise in the limited time he had on the field the last year he was on the team.  But in all fairness , I didn't think it was a defining moment going forward. s I've been dying in this thread , we have no pass rush. Zip , nada .. almost zero . Heck can you even be sure we will resign our leading sack guy ? I'm thinking maybe about 50-50 if the price is low enough ?

 

If people want to dispute me and defend management they should bring up the fact that Langford can provide very good push and he essentially missed 2016 but I'm not going to bring that up. Plus Anderson was very slow to recover from that knee surgery.

 

I agree with you. The last good move the Colts made for the pass rush was re-signing Robert Mathis, tbh. Anything else of significance seemed to work to the team's detriment, starting with the 2013 offseason.

[DougDew]

12 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

That's not what Freeney had to say about the situation. Where are you getting your information that he was demanding 14 mill for 1 year with the Colts and then turn around and sign for 4 miller year with the chargers ? 

 

I can't find anything to back up this ridiculous stance by Freeney ? Who you say the Colts never approached him about taking a pay cut and the Colts don't deny it , I tend to think the Colts thought he was done ? 

 

Hey.. I don't think any one move .. signing , not resigning , keeping .. trading or not trading was egregiously wrong. Just asking what these two guys , Pagano and Grigson , did right in the last 5 years regarding our pass rush ? 

 

1) Was there a good FA signing . We spent a ton of money in two of the 5 years. I see nothing here that worked.

 

2) Draft .. nada  

 

3) Do we see some guys that once were on our roster now being effective pass rushers ? My answer would be yes.

 

So.. strike one.... strike 2 ... strike 3 ?

Its ancient history now, but I'm almost certain that if we hadn't parted ways with Freeney, the cap hit would have been $14 million.  It was the last year on the Polian signed back-loaded contract.  

 

They cut Freeney because his skills were not suited to playing OLB, where as Mathis had more athleticism for that.  

 

The Colts had Mathis for a few years.  They properly recognized that they would need replace him when he was done.  Werner and Newsome were supposed to do that.

 

Remember....Mathis just recently led the NFL in sacks.  Why spend big money on a FA pass rusher when you have the the guy who can lead the NFL in sacks already on your roster?  Pass rusher wasn't a need for the Colts when Avril and Bennett went to Seattle.

 

[dw49]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Its ancient history now, but I'm almost certain that if we hadn't parted ways with Freeney, the cap hit would have been $14 million.  It was the last year on the Polian signed back-loaded contract.  

 

They cut Freeney because his skills were not suited to playing OLB, where as Mathis had more athleticism for that.  

 

The Colts had Mathis for a few years.  They properly recognized that they would need replace him when he was done.  Werner and Newsome were supposed to do that.

 

Remember....Mathis just recently led the NFL in sacks.  Why spend big money on a FA pass rusher when you have the the guy who can lead the NFL in sacks already on your roster?  Pass rusher wasn't a need for the Colts when Avril and Bennett went to Seattle.

 

 

All we had going forward that year was Mathis , so it's at least debatable how much of  need there was. 

 

No way we would have paid Freeney 14 mill as that would have been insane. But from the feedback that was available , Freeney was probably willing to negotiate something fair. But those deals are often hard to  work out as the player and management can be miles apart on what they think is fair. So who knows....

[dw49]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I agree with you. The last good move the Colts made for the pass rush was re-signing Robert Mathis, tbh. Anything else of significance seemed to work to the team's detriment, starting with the 2013 offseason.

 

Looks that way ... I think anyway.

[ponyboy]

3 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

All we had going forward that year was Mathis , so it's at least debatable how much of  need there was. 

 

No way we would have paid Freeney 14 mill as that would have been insane. But from the feedback that was available , Freeney was probably willing to negotiate something fair. But those deals are often hard to  work out as the player and management can be miles apart on what they think is fair. So who knows....

 

My recollection is that Freeney *did* finish out the last year of the back loaded contract -- which I thought was around $18M.  He was not resigned as an URFA in 2013, but he wasn't cut.  I remember thinking he made $1M per tackle in 2012. 

[jimmy g]

1 hour ago, Happy2BeHere said:

I still don't get why people are so butt hurt about the Jerry Hughes trade. He was not a good player for the Colts and he had virtually proved to be a bust for us. There was no indication he would change so he HAD to be moved.

I remember it different. He was a bust in his time in a 4-3. But in Chuck's first training camp, he flourished, and Mathis looked lost.