Combine Day 3

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

You mean your source on NFL.com Lance Zierlein who translates him directly into a 3-4 as a Sam Backer?

 

Well....   I have re-read the Lawson profile....   and while I see what you're referencing,  I think you also left out the part where he's also being discussed as a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 DE, a 5-technique.    There literally isn't a spot on any line where he's not mentioned.

 

He's 6-3 and 270.    I don't see a 3-4 lineman -- despite the profile that says some teams will see him that way.   Small 3-4 lineman are 285 or so.    He'd have to gain 15 pounds just to be on the small side.      And I don't see the athleticism to play OLB.     

 

And you yourself noted IF he's an OLB,  then he's the edge setter, NOT the pass rusher.     Do you really want to use our #1 pick on an edge setter and not a pass rusher?      Not me.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

[Defjamz26]

I didn't see Fliyd after the 40. What happened? But good day for Perry I thought. I also liked the Weatherly kid from Vanderbilt. Going to have to watch some tape on him.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   I have re-read the Lawson profile....   and while I see what you're referencing,  I think you also left out the part where he's also being discussed as a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 DE, a 5-technique.    There literally isn't a spot on any line where he's not mentioned.

 

He's 6-3 and 270.    I don't see a 3-4 lineman -- despite the profile that says some teams will see him that way.   Small 3-4 lineman are 285 or so.    He'd have to gain 15 pounds just to be on the small side.      And I don't see the athleticism to play OLB.     

 

And you yourself noted IF he's an OLB,  then he's the edge setter, NOT the pass rusher.     Do you really want to use our #1 pick on an edge setter and not a pass rusher?      Not me.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

 

 

I want to use our number one pick on an Excellent Football Player.  Even if the prevailing thought is he's a SAM you still can't discount all those sacks he got this season.  Having a strong pass rushing SAM is a big plus if you have a pure pass rusher on the other side.  If we choose Shaq we are getting a very good football player which is my first concern.  The other concerns I think can be filled by adding a guy like Correa who I think is more of a pure Rush backer.  Plus if we decide to add a rusher like Olivier Vernon or someone else in FA that adds even more.   My first concern is getting a very good football player.  As much as people like Floyd I wouldn't be surprised if he was hanging around in the second round somewhere and maybe we could even nab him as well.  May not happen that way but who knows.

[NewColtsFan]

11 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

 

I want to use our number one pick on an Excellent Football Player.  Even if the prevailing thought is he's a SAM you still can't discount all those sacks he got this season.  Having a strong pass rushing SAM is a big plus if you have a pure pass rusher on the other side.  If we choose Shaq we are getting a very good football player which is my first concern.  The other concerns I think can be filled by adding a guy like Correa who I think is more of a pure Rush backer.  Plus if we decide to add a rusher like Olivier Vernon or someone else in FA that adds even more.   My first concern is getting a very good football player.

 

Well........   we agree that we both want the Colts to take an excellent football player.     And I think Lawson IS an excellent football player.      I'm just not sure he's a scheme fit for what we do?     

 

As for a pass rush,  it's hard to be base an off-season off getting a guy you may or may not get in the 2nd round.

 

Also....   I have no idea why you'd think we're a player for Vernon.    I suspect he's going to be WAY too expensive for the Colts.      

 

Grigson has said this week he doesn't think this is a very good draft for pure pass rushers.     I just hope we can find one in the draft.

 

[krunk]

34 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well........   we agree that we both want the Colts to take an excellent football player.     And I think Lawson IS an excellent football player.      I'm just not sure he's a scheme fit for what we do?     

 

As for a pass rush,  it's hard to be base an off-season off getting a guy you may or may not get in the 2nd round.

 

Also....   I have no idea why you'd think we're a player for Vernon.    I suspect he's going to be WAY too expensive for the Colts.      

 

Grigson has said this week he doesn't think this is a very good draft for pure pass rushers.     I just hope we can find one in the draft.

 

 

I just mentioned Vernon, but it could be whomever.  At pick #18 in the first round I really don't see who would be there that is worthy of a first round pick other than Spence, Lawson, Dodd and maybe one or two other guys at those OLB positions.  And believe me if somebody else is there who is even better than Shaq then I want that guy regardless of position.  But just looking specifically at OLB I think Lawson is an overall better football player than some of these other guys mentioned at that position. 

 

If you believe in BPA you don't pass over the BPA just to say you took a lesser supposed pure pass rusher according to your needs.   Other people like Floyd, but I just don't think Floyd is an overall better football player than Lawson.  Floyd has major aspects of his game to me that need improvement such as his terrible run defense. And even in terms of his supposed quick first step and potential look at a guy like Clowney who although you have to give him a caveat for injures, even when he's playing he isn't just destroying the leauge with sacks like he did in college.  It takes a little time and Floyd isn't anywhere near Clowneys level.

 

Floyd usually averaged around 4.5 sacks a year at Georgia and yes I understand he gets used sometimes on 3rd down as pass covering ILB I still don't think he's ready to come in year 1 and just explode.  It will take time, and if he sucks at run defense like we all know he does then how much value are we going to get out of a first round pick on the guy for the time value invested in making him a good football player is my issue.  I'm not saying don't draft Floyd I'm just saying I don't like him in the first round.

[Defjamz26]

29 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

I just mentioned Vernon, but it could be whomever.  At pick #18 in the first round I really don't see who would be there that is worthy of a first round pick other than Spence, Lawson, Dodd and maybe one or two other guys at those OLB positions.  And believe me if somebody else is there who is even better than Shaq then I want that guy regardless of position.  But just looking specifically at OLB I think Lawson is an overall better football player than some of these other guys mentioned at that position. 

 

If you believe in BPA you don't pass over the BPA just to say you took a lesser supposed pure pass rusher according to your needs.   Other people like Floyd, but I just don't think Floyd is an overall better football player than Lawson.  Floyd has major aspects of his game to me that need improvement such as his terrible run defense. And even in terms of his supposed quick first step and potential look at a guy like Clowney who although you have to give him a caveat for injures, even when he's playing he isn't just destroying the leauge with sacks like he did in college.  It takes a little time and Floyd isn't anywhere near Clowneys level.

 

Floyd usually averaged around 4.5 sacks a year at Georgia and yes I understand he gets used sometimes on 3rd down as pass covering ILB I still don't think he's ready to come in year 1 and just explode.  It will take time, and if he sucks at run defense like we all know he does then how much value are we going to get out of a first round pick on the guy for the time value invested in making him a good football player is my issue.  I'm not saying don't draft Floyd I'm just saying I don't like him in the first round.

If you're looking for any of the first round edge guys to come in hot year 1, you're asking for too much.  None of these guys are Miller or Mack. It's all about projection.

 

With Floyd, I see a second chance at Dion Jordan. You get a guy who is the same type of athlete, but not a knucklehead. He'll be put into the right system as opposed to Jordan who they tried to force as a DE. And he's around what looks to be a good coaching staff. Maybe he's just a rotational guy early but he'll get the development he needs. He has all the tools, he just needs someone to connect the dots and you're looking at Aldon Smith 2.0. He's not Barkevious Mingo.

 

He's one of those guys who is waiting for a coach to come and take him to the next level. There are other options at 18, but he should be in the discussion. People shouldn't be scared off just because of Mingo and Jordan.

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

If you're looking for any of the first round edge guys to come in hot year 1, you're asking for too much.  None of these guys are Miller or Mack. It's all about projection.

 

With Floyd, I see a second chance at Dion Jordan. You get a guy who is the same type of athlete, but not a knucklehead. He'll be put into the right system as opposed to Jordan who they tried to force as a DE. And he's around what looks to be a good coaching staff. Maybe he's just a rotational guy early but he'll get the development he needs. He has all the tools, he just needs someone to connect the dots and you're looking at Aldon Smith 2.0. He's not Barkevious Mingo.

 

He's one of those guys who is waiting for a coach to come and take him to the next level. There are other options at 18, but he should be in the discussion. People shouldn't be scared off just because of Mingo and Jordan.

 

My problem is do you pass over a possible Terrell Suggs type of player wating on an Aldon Smith type of player to learn how to become a productive professional.  I think Lawson is a SAM, but I think there's enough potential there for a Suggs as well.  It's just hard for me to pass over a more complete football player to take Floyd in the first round.  After Grigson does all of his scoring I'm pretty sure he'd end up breaking his own rules.

[Defjamz26]

26 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

My problem is do you pass over a possible Terrell Suggs type of player wating on an Aldon Smith type of player to learn how to become a productive professional.  I think Lawson is a SAM, but I think there's enough potential there for a Suggs as well.  It's just hard for me to pass over a more complete football player to take Floyd in the first round.  After Grigson does all of his scoring I'm pretty sure he'd end up breaking his own rules.

I know he likes an edge setter but we also need athletes. If you want an edge setter just pair Floyd up with his buddy Jenkins who is arguably the best edge setter in the draft. But If you want someone who can overwhelm with speed and technique, Floyd is the guy. Mayock noted that in addition to his speed, Floyd also has one of the best over and under moves of this class.

 

Floyd has a lot of upside. I suppose Lawson does too, but that's in a 4-3 IMO. It's hard to say who is better because they both have tremendous upside.

[krunk]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

I know he likes an edge setter but we also need athletes. If you want an edge setter just pair Floyd up with his buddy Jenkins who is arguably the best edge setter in the draft. But If you want someone who can overwhelm with speed and technique, Floyd is the guy. Mayock noted that in addition to his speed, Floyd also has one of the best over and under moves of this class.

 

Floyd has a lot of upside. I suppose Lawson does too, but that's in a 4-3 IMO. It's hard to say who is better because they both have tremendous upside.

 

Lawson played plenty of stand up linebacker style as well.  I'm watching him vs. Alabama now and I even see zone dropping too. I don't think 4-3 matters much.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

 

I just mentioned Vernon, but it could be whomever.  At pick #18 in the first round I really don't see who would be there that is worthy of a first round pick other than Spence, Lawson, Dodd and maybe one or two other guys at those OLB positions.  And believe me if somebody else is there who is even better than Shaq then I want that guy regardless of position.  But just looking specifically at OLB I think Lawson is an overall better football player than some of these other guys mentioned at that position. 

 

If you believe in BPA you don't pass over the BPA just to say you took a lesser supposed pure pass rusher according to your needs.   Other people like Floyd, but I just don't think Floyd is an overall better football player than Lawson.  Floyd has major aspects of his game to me that need improvement such as his terrible run defense. And even in terms of his supposed quick first step and potential look at a guy like Clowney who although you have to give him a caveat for injures, even when he's playing he isn't just destroying the leauge with sacks like he did in college.  It takes a little time and Floyd isn't anywhere near Clowneys level.

 

Floyd usually averaged around 4.5 sacks a year at Georgia and yes I understand he gets used sometimes on 3rd down as pass covering ILB I still don't think he's ready to come in year 1 and just explode.  It will take time, and if he sucks at run defense like we all know he does then how much value are we going to get out of a first round pick on the guy for the time value invested in making him a good football player is my issue.  I'm not saying don't draft Floyd I'm just saying I don't like him in the first round.

 

I'd like to get your thoughts on Dodd.    He's quickly growing on me.    He's a full two inches taller than Lawson.   I think he's more athletic.     He did some snaps in college out of a two-point stance.     

 

Now,  he's a 1-year wonder.    But what I read is that he's a great kid with a high motor.    So, it feels like his best football is ahead of him.      Dodd really, really interests me......

 

Your thoughts?

 

[Gavin]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well........   we agree that we both want the Colts to take an excellent football player.     And I think Lawson IS an excellent football player.      I'm just not sure he's a scheme fit for what we do?     

 

As for a pass rush,  it's hard to be base an off-season off getting a guy you may or may not get in the 2nd round.

 

Also....   I have no idea why you'd think we're a player for Vernon.    I suspect he's going to be WAY too expensive for the Colts.      

 

Grigson has said this week he doesn't think this is a very good draft for pure pass rushers.     I just hope we can find one in the draft.

 

"Grigson has said this week he doesn't think this is a very good draft for pure pass rushers."

 

I sincerely hope he did not say that. I missed that part somewhere along the line but if he said that he is wrong or if he was told that by a scout then we certainly have scouting issues.

[BOTT]

12 minutes ago, Gavin said:

"Grigson has said this week he doesn't think this is a very good draft for pure pass rushers."

 

I sincerely hope he did not say that. I missed that part somewhere along the line but if he said that he is wrong or if he was told that by a scout then we certainly have scouting issues.

I believe he said that on Dakich

[Gavin]

2 minutes ago, BOTT said:

I believe he said that on Dakich

From the stand point of its not a deep class of pass rushers I'd agree but I think there will be a few good ones at 18 worth taking. That's probably what he meant I'm guessing but there will probably be 3-4 pass rushers worth taking at 18

[Defjamz26]

13 minutes ago, Gavin said:

"Grigson has said this week he doesn't think this is a very good draft for pure pass rushers."

 

I sincerely hope he did not say that. I missed that part somewhere along the line but if he said that he is wrong or if he was told that by a scout then we certainly have scouting issues.

After Bosa and Spence, everyone else is a toss up. There is no one with Khalil Mack or Dante Fowler explosion.

 

But there are a lot of intriguing projects. I like Calhoun round 2. Correa or Ngakoue round 3,etc...

[krunk]

41 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I'd like to get your thoughts on Dodd.    He's quickly growing on me.    He's a full two inches taller than Lawson.   I think he's more athletic.     He did some snaps in college out of a two-point stance.     

 

Now,  he's a 1-year wonder.    But what I read is that he's a great kid with a high motor.    So, it feels like his best football is ahead of him.      Dodd really, really interests me......

 

Your thoughts?

 

 

I like Dodd quite a bit as well.  I think he's similar to Jason Taylor although I didn't see him playing standing up as much as I saw with Lawson.  Superman sees him as more of an interior lineman, or maybe a DE in a 4-3 but I tend to think he could do whatever as an athlete.  I have a little concern that I never saw him play standing up(could be wrong), and it is said that Dodd is not as good against the run as Lawson. I'd have to go back and watch more tape to verify.

 

I feel differently in the case of Lawson because I've seen him play standing up on tape, I see how disciplined he plays the run and I've seen him zone dropping as well.  I don't recall seeing that with Dodd, but he's athletic enough. I can see where Supe is coming from with the lineman portion as well. 

[BOTT]

7 minutes ago, Gavin said:

From the stand point of its not a deep class of pass rushers I'd agree but I think there will be a few good ones at 18 worth taking. That's probably what he meant I'm guessing but there will probably be 3-4 pass rushers worth taking at 18

Yes, he meant depth at the position.

[Gavin]

8 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

After Bosa and Spence, everyone else is a toss up. There is no one with Khalil Mack or Dante Fowler explosion.

 

But there are a lot of intriguing projects. I like Calhoun round 2. Correa or Ngakoue round 3,etc...

Correa and Floyd both have great acceleration

[NewColtsFan]

28 minutes ago, Gavin said:

"Grigson has said this week he doesn't think this is a very good draft for pure pass rushers."

 

I sincerely hope he did not say that. I missed that part somewhere along the line but if he said that he is wrong or if he was told that by a scout then we certainly have scouting issues.

 

 

There are tons of quality defensive tackles....   but Grigson says not very many great pass rushers.   It's on tape on this very website....    I'll see if I can link it.....     and I think I'd trust their judgement over any fans judgement which is not meant as a shot at you....

 

[Gavin]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

There are tons of quality defensive tackles....   but Grigson says not very many great pass rushers.   It's on tape on this very website....    I'll see if I can link it.....     and I think I'd trust their judgement over any fans judgement which is not meant as a shot at you....

 

In the end he has a 50-50 shot of being wrong about a prospect like everyone else. no offense taken. I do agree with him on not very many but there are some within the first couple rounds worth taking. But yes I'd agree assuming he meant there are not a ton

[NewColtsFan]

6 minutes ago, Gavin said:

In the end he has a 50-50 shot of being wrong about a prospect like everyone else. no offense taken. I do agree with him on not very many but there are some within the first couple rounds worth taking. But yes I'd agree assuming he meant there are not a ton

 

I don't mean to state the incredibly obvious....   but, we all have to remember,  there are 32 teams, and they all want more pass rushers.     Now, some don't fit our scheme,  so 4-3 guys are mostly out.      So,  you've got to find enough guys to fit your system, and realize that some other team may grab the guy you want before you do.

 

 

[Gavin]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't mean to state the incredibly obvious....   but, we all have to remember,  there are 32 teams, and they all want more pass rushers.     Now, some don't fit our scheme,  so 4-3 guys are mostly out.      So,  you've got to find enough guys to fit your system, and realize that some other team may grab the guy you want before you do.

 

 

Actually if they can turn the corner and accelerate quick they can fit our scheme(And contain. Remember we have our pass rushers hand in the dirt from time to time.  Remember Robert Mathis and I believe Trent Cole started out in 43 schemes though Cole has lost a step or 2 and so has Mathis I think. But players are picked often who played in a 43 in college to play in a 34 at OLB obviously. It comes down to acceleration, ability to turn the corner and flatten out to get after the QB (and developed technique over time of course) but pass rushers that can do that can fit in our scheme.

 

But obviously there are OLB's that are not very explosive off the snap and cant turn the corner well. Those are not good pass rushers anyway, At least in the NFL

[Defjamz26]

43 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Actually if they can turn the corner and accelerate quick they can fit our scheme(And contain. Remember we have our pass rushers hand in the dirt from time to time.  Remember Robert Mathis and I believe Trent Cole started out in 43 schemes though Cole has lost a step or 2 and so has Mathis I think. But players are picked often who played in a 43 in college to play in a 34 at OLB obviously. It comes down to acceleration, ability to turn the corner and flatten out to get after the QB (and developed technique over time of course) but pass rushers that can do that can fit in our scheme.

 

But obviously there are OLB's that are not very explosive off the snap and cant turn the corner well. Those are not good pass rushers anyway, At least in the NFL

And those traits you listed are exactly why I like Floyd. He has speed off the snap, acceleration, and has the best bend in this class. All he needs is more strength and some technique.

[weslo1812]

30 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

And those traits you listed are exactly why I like Floyd. He has speed off the snap, acceleration, and has the best bend in this class. All he needs is more strength and some technique.

I like his ability to play in space and cover on top of his pass rushing potential. He could easily match up with a TE and could definitely provide better coverage over the middle for us. A season or two to build his strength and refining his technique and I think he could be an above avg pass rusher possibly great. I don't think I'd take him at 18 though. If anything, right now I'm feeling like trading down to the early to mid 20s and getting an extra 3rd rounder and maybe a 6th. Then get Billings in the 1st, then maybe Floyd with our 2nd, The Best Center available with our first 3rd rounder and another Pass rusher with our second 3rd rounder. 

 

I really really like Billings and think he's the type of guy we need in the middle as an anchor. Parry did alright and would be a solid backup....But Billing can push the pocket and he eats up double teams with ease. He did have 5.5 sacks as a NT and 15 TFL I believe....so he has the ability to genrate pressure. And I think if we let him play some one gap... he could definitely get penatration and win a one on one situation with an offensive linemen. He's extremely strong and powerful...to a rare level.

[Defjamz26]

15 minutes ago, weslo1812 said:

I like his ability to play in space and cover on top of his pass rushing potential. He could easily match up with a TE and could definitely provide better coverage over the middle for us. A season or two to build his strength and refining his technique and I think he could be an above avg pass rusher possibly great. I don't think I'd take him at 18 though. If anything, right now I'm feeling like trading down to the early to mid 20s and getting an extra 3rd rounder and maybe a 6th. Then get Billings in the 1st, then maybe Floyd with our 2nd, The Best Center available with our first 3rd rounder and another Pass rusher with our second 3rd rounder. 

 

I really really like Billings and think he's the type of guy we need in the middle as an anchor. Parry did alright and would be a solid backup....But Billing can push the pocket and he eats up double teams with ease. He did have 5.5 sacks as a NT and 15 TFL I believe....so he has the ability to genrate pressure. And I think if we let him play some one gap... he could definitely get penatration and win a one on one situation with an offensive linemen. He's extremely strong and powerful...to a rare level.

I'll be honest, I have Billings rated higher than Floyd so I agree with you. Billings is a rare and special talent and has a higher floor than Floyd. I'd take him at 18 easy.

[krunk]

I'm thinking it's now more likely that we may have Spence still around when we pick.  I'm just not so certain if Grigson will be pulling the trigger based on the history. Plus some are saying he had some shaky interviews to go along with the 4.8 forty.  I still like him, but it's well documented I had concerns in this area also so his status is a little bit of a mistery to me now.

 

 

Already facing difficult questions about his history with drugs, Spence ran a disappointing 4.80 40-yard dash on Sunday -- fast enough for a bigger defensive lineman, but not what NFL scouts would have hoped for from an edge rusher like Spence (6-foot-2, 254 pounds).

"Perhaps now we can stop the narrative that he's going to be a first-round pick," an NFL source told NFL Media's Kimberly Jones, with another adding he "didn't see anything special."

According to Jones, multiple clubs thought Spence's interviews were "very shaky." That doesn't bode well for a player who had to convince teams that his failed drug tests are behind him.

In other drills, Spence's 35-inch vertical jump was just a half-inch off the pace for his position (Oklahoma State's Emmanuel Ogbah, 35.5), but overall, Sunday was something of a momentum killer for Spence's evaluation.

"What kind of explosion does (Spence) have versus Khalil Mack, who lit it up here (at the combine), and Von Miller, who lit it up here, and then lit up the NFL? His 35-inch (vertical) was in the ballpark, but his broad jump hasn't been, and I thought his 40 was disappointing," said NFL Media draft expert Mike Mayock on NFL Network. "4.8? I thought he'd be somewhere between 4.65 and 4.7. It will be interesting to see if he can improve that."

In a draft that is much deeper with defensive tackle prospects than edge rushers, Spence has a better chance to maintain first-round status because there is less draft competition for his role.

"When you look at the Super Bowl and (conference) championship games, it was pass rush. You have to have a pass rush, guys who can win one-on-one matchups. He's got that unique ability to win one-on-one matchups," an NFL general manager told Jones, who then asked if Spence is trustworthy.

"I don't know yet," the GM said.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000639754/article/gm-i-dont-know-if-i-can-trust-nfl-draft-prospect-noah-spence?sf21676172=1

[RockThatBlue]

2 hours ago, krunk said:

I'm thinking it's now more likely that we may have Spence still around when we pick.  I'm just not so certain if Grigson will be pulling the trigger based on the history. Plus some are saying he had some shaky interviews to go along with the 4.8 forty.  I still like him, but it's well documented I had concerns in this area also so his status is a little bit of a mistery to me now.

 

 

Already facing difficult questions about his history with drugs, Spence ran a disappointing 4.80 40-yard dash on Sunday -- fast enough for a bigger defensive lineman, but not what NFL scouts would have hoped for from an edge rusher like Spence (6-foot-2, 254 pounds).

"Perhaps now we can stop the narrative that he's going to be a first-round pick," an NFL source told NFL Media's Kimberly Jones, with another adding he "didn't see anything special."

According to Jones, multiple clubs thought Spence's interviews were "very shaky." That doesn't bode well for a player who had to convince teams that his failed drug tests are behind him.

In other drills, Spence's 35-inch vertical jump was just a half-inch off the pace for his position (Oklahoma State's Emmanuel Ogbah, 35.5), but overall, Sunday was something of a momentum killer for Spence's evaluation.

"What kind of explosion does (Spence) have versus Khalil Mack, who lit it up here (at the combine), and Von Miller, who lit it up here, and then lit up the NFL? His 35-inch (vertical) was in the ballpark, but his broad jump hasn't been, and I thought his 40 was disappointing," said NFL Media draft expert Mike Mayock on NFL Network. "4.8? I thought he'd be somewhere between 4.65 and 4.7. It will be interesting to see if he can improve that."

In a draft that is much deeper with defensive tackle prospects than edge rushers, Spence has a better chance to maintain first-round status because there is less draft competition for his role.

"When you look at the Super Bowl and (conference) championship games, it was pass rush. You have to have a pass rush, guys who can win one-on-one matchups. He's got that unique ability to win one-on-one matchups," an NFL general manager told Jones, who then asked if Spence is trustworthy.

"I don't know yet," the GM said.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000639754/article/gm-i-dont-know-if-i-can-trust-nfl-draft-prospect-noah-spence?sf21676172=1

Newsome had a history with drugs too and Grigson drafted him. Albeit wasn't the first round pick but still.

[Defjamz26]

23 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Newsome had a history with drugs too and Grigson drafted him. Albeit wasn't the first round pick but still.

But he also came out a few years back and said that he won't take any player with character issues in the first 3 rounds, and he's stuck by it. I don't see why he would break that trend.

[RockThatBlue]

31 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

But he also came out a few years back and said that he won't take any player with character issues in the first 3 rounds, and he's stuck by it. I don't see why he would break that trend.

I honestly don't remember Grigs saying that. If so then I guess Spence would be someone he wouldn't draft.

[krunk]

8 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Newsome had a history with drugs too and Grigson drafted him. Albeit wasn't the first round pick but still.

Yeah he drafted him where he said he'd take all the other character and drug concern guys

[krunk]

I think Nkemidiche is going to take a big fall unless Marvin Lewis comes through and saves the day. You know he will take a risk on him. He botched his interviews and showed up looking like he fell out of a window. He tested pretty good though.

[Defjamz26]

12 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think Nkemidiche is going to take a big fall unless Marvin Lewis comes through and saves the day. You know he will take a risk on him. He botched his interviews and showed up looking like he fell out of a window. He tested pretty good though.

He won't make it past Rex and the Bills IMO. Rex doesn't care about character.

[krunk]

6 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

He won't make it past Rex and the Bills IMO. Rex doesn't care about character.

Maybe but do you ever see any of Rex guys in trouble with the law and getting suspended for drugs? He's got guys that talk too much at times but I haven't seen very many in police trouble or drug trouble while on his watch. I did think initially about him with Rex or Marvin. Maybe even Cleveland since Hugh falls out of the Marvin tree. On second thought I could see Nkemdiche with Arizona. Bruce Arians would take that risk.

[Defjamz26]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Maybe but do you ever see any of Rex guys in trouble with the law and getting suspended for drugs? He's got guys that talk too much at times but I haven't seen very many in police trouble or drug trouble while on his watch. I did think initially about him with Rex or Marvin. Maybe even Cleveland since Hugh falls out of the Marvin tree. On second thought I could see Nkemdiche with Arizona. Bruce Arians would take that risk.

Muhammad Wilkerson had issues with pot coming into college. We just saw Richardson get in trouble with the law. And those are 2 big time players.

[krunk]

Just now, Defjamz26 said:

Muhammad Wilkerson had issues with pot coming into college. We just saw Richardson get in trouble with the law. And those are 2 big time players.

Yeah but Richardson is not currently playing for Rex Ryan. All his problems surfaced under Todd Bowles. i don't recall Mo Wilk getting in trouble under Rex watch. I think people are looking at Nkemidiche issues as bigger than pot in some ways.

[BleedBlu8792]

17 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Well....   I have re-read the Lawson profile....   and while I see what you're referencing,  I think you also left out the part where he's also being discussed as a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 DE, a 5-technique.    There literally isn't a spot on any line where he's not mentioned.

 

He's 6-3 and 270.    I don't see a 3-4 lineman -- despite the profile that says some teams will see him that way.   Small 3-4 lineman are 285 or so.    He'd have to gain 15 pounds just to be on the small side.      And I don't see the athleticism to play OLB.     

 

And you yourself noted IF he's an OLB,  then he's the edge setter, NOT the pass rusher.     Do you really want to use our #1 pick on an edge setter and not a pass rusher?      Not me.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

 

Lawson has a very close resemblance to Pernell McPhee in my opinion. McPhee has been very good as a stand up OLB in both the Ravens and Bears 3-4 scheme. Same size and skillset, probably more polished than McPhee was when he came out. Lawson would be fine as a OLB in our system.