OBJ

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, Mrs. Misunderstood said:

First, let me be clear, that I in  NO Way, shape or form condone what OBJ did.   

I do however think he was provoked, and I don't think he is the only guilty party here, or the only one deserving of punishment.

 

 

25 minutes ago, amfootball said:

Players get provoked all the time, worse than Odell and don't respond like he did.

 

Shannon Sharpe  says Muhammad Ali invented trash talk, but he perfected it. Shannon says his grandfather taught him a long time ago -

"Don't let the other guy know what makes you tick, because he'll wind you up and make you tick when he wants."

And it always seems the guy retaliating is the one that gets caught and punished.  The only good of this is if OBJ has learned his lesson, and never goes into 'loose cannon' mode on the field ever again.

 

Norman's cover is blown now too.  This was a guy Cam Newton wanted to pummel in training camp, but was flying very low.  Now he got OBJ to explode, and he is now on the officials radar for antics, just in time for the playoffs.  joy oh joy Josh.

 

[Gramz]

27 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

Shannon Sharpe  says Muhammad Ali invented trash talk, but he perfected it. Shannon says his grandfather taught him a long time ago -

"Don't let the other guy know what makes you tick, because he'll wind you up and make you tick when he wants."

And it always seems the guy retaliating is the one that gets caught and punished.  The only good of this is if OBJ has learned his lesson, and never goes into 'loose cannon' mode on the field ever again.

 

Norman's cover is blown now too.  This was a guy Cam Newton wanted to pummel in training camp, but was flying very low.  Now he got OBJ to explode, and he is now on the officials radar for antics, just in time for the playoffs.  joy oh joy Josh.

 

Exactly.  And once again to "clarify"  as I stated previously,  No Way am I condoning what OBJ did.  He was clearly in the wrong, just pointing out that others were too.

 

People try to provoke us on here all the time, but retaliating only makes things worse for you.  I've learned it's best to ignore a few..  Unfortunately, unlike here,  that is not  always so easy to do on the playing field.

[NFLfan]

Suspension upheld. Beckham will not play Sunday night against the Vikes.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14430052/new-york-giants-wr-odell-beckham-jr-loses-appeal-one-game-suspension

 

[Girlzarefanstoo]

I'm glad it was upheld.  That's the right decision.  I also read OBJs statement.  It was well thought out and appropriate.  I hope it is truly from his heart.  If he changes, I'm one that will give him a chance to redeem himself and grow up into the great player he's capable of becoming.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Unless the NFLPA takes it to Federal court on Odell's behalf, a new precedent has been set.

[ColtsBlueFL]

5 hours ago, NFLfan said:

Suspension upheld. Beckham will not play Sunday night against the Vikes.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14430052/new-york-giants-wr-odell-beckham-jr-loses-appeal-one-game-suspension

 

 

Waiting for the League to suspend Cody Wallace one game... 

[southwest1]

On December 22, 2015 at 9:39 AM, buccolts said:

 

How the heck did you make the leap from "Refs have to do their part too", to placing the bulk of the blame on the NFL Zebras?

 

That's the kind of irresponsible journalism we complain about here, all the time.

You over reacted. You're as emotional as OBJ right now. Time to real you in.

Did you not comprehend what I said BC. My beef is with Tom Coughlin & how he mismanaged the volatile situation with his superstar WR? What in the world are you talking about? 

 

"Time to reel you in" Excuse me? What exactly did I do that was so over the line? Enlighten me please... Before you condemn someone, you might wanna make sure you grasp that person's point of view fully first. Just saying. 

 

CBFL was making the argument that the officiating crew was most responsible for failing to get control of that football not me. 

 

Also, I'm a football fan when did journalist credentials become necessary to submit a post in any thread here? 

 

Don't try to tell me or anybody else for that matter when to calm down either. The last time I checked I was civil & you're not a moderator. Thank you. 

[Surge89]

42 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Unless the NFLPA takes it to Federal court on Odell's behalf, a new precedent has been set.

 

Only wonder boy gets that treatment even when he is caught red handed.

[amfootball]

6 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Unless the NFLPA takes it to Federal court on Odell's behalf, a new precedent has been set.

What new precedent? Players have always been subjected to suspension for that type of behavior. Talib was suspended one game for the eye poke earlier this year.

[amfootball]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2015 at 4:48 PM, NFLfan said:

 

 Who says we need help? ;)

 

Seriously the Vikes are almost guaranteed a playoff spot. The only way they miss the playoffs is if they and the Seahawks lose their remaining games and Atlanta wins out. 

 

I will be rooting big time for you to knock the Giants out. Although I think they get officially eliminated if the Redskins beat the Eagles on Saturday night as the Skins will win the division. But still, the Giants can't lose enough games for me so go Vikes. lol.

 

Also, it would seem you will match up with GB in the post-season assuming GB is 3 which is likely and you are 6 which also seems likely. That means you will play at Lambeau in back to back weeks given you play GB at GB last game of season. I wonder if the seedings are set after this week if both teams just rest their guys and don't show anything that final game in preparation for the playoff game a week later.

[ColtsBlueFL]

3 hours ago, amfootball said:

What new precedent? Players have always been subjected to suspension for that type of behavior. Talib was suspended one game for the eye poke earlier this year.

Poking eyes is never part of the game, ever.  Helmet to helmet hits happen all of the time during games.  That's a huge difference.

 

OBJ is the first player ever to get a suspension on a helmet to helmet hit on his first offense.  Now, any player can get a suspension. Precednt has been set. All the league has to do is mention there was hint of malicious intent (even if there was none, just playing hard football and got outside of the lines) if players/teams/media question it.

 

On one day, they may rule this (Cody Wallace hit) just playing hard football, on a different day decide to suspend the player.  Where is the line drawn, the is identifiable if not quantifiable, and will it be consistent across all referee crews?

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CWs4xPUUEAAiRZf.mp4

 

Speaking, of Talib, he is quite upset Wallace only gets a fine for that late helmet to helmet hit-

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2015/12/23/cody-wallace-david-bruton-aqib-talib/77854704/

 

I feel Wallace's hit is just as much deserving of a suspension as OBJ's.  They meet the same criteria, flagrant and malicious launching of their body as a helmet led missile into an another unsuspecting players head.  How does one get a fine only, and the other a suspension?

 

(I have a suspicion we will end up using a version of Potter Stewart's famous phrase- 'They can't define it but know it when they see it.' )

[amfootball]

14 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Poking eyes is never part of the game, ever.  Helmet to helmet hits happen all of the time during games.  That's a huge difference.

 

OBJ is the first player ever to get a suspension on a helmet to helmet hit on his first offense.  Now, any player can get a suspension. Precednt has been set. All the league has to do is mention there was hint of malicious intent (even if there was none, just playing hard football and got outside of the lines) if players/teams/media question it.

 

On one day, they may rule this (Cody Wallace hit) just playing hard football, on a different day decide to suspend the player.  Where is the line drawn, the is identifiable if not quantifiable, and will it be consistent across all referee crews?

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CWs4xPUUEAAiRZf.mp4

 

Speaking, of Talib, he is quite upset Wallace only gets a fine for that late helmet to helmet hit-

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/broncos/2015/12/23/cody-wallace-david-bruton-aqib-talib/77854704/

 

I feel Wallace's hit is just as much deserving of a suspension as OBJ's.  They meet the same criteria, flagrant and malicious launching of their body as a helmet led missile into an another unsuspecting players head.  How does one get a fine only, and the other a suspension?

 

(I have a suspicion we will end up using a version of Potter Stewart's famous phrase- 'They can't define it but know it when they see it.' )

He was not suspended just for the helmet-to-helmet hit but for multiple safety violations during the game, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/21/nfl-statement-odell-beckham-jr-suspended-for-multiple-violations-of-player-safety-rules/

[ColtsBlueFL]

24 minutes ago, amfootball said:

He was not suspended just for the helmet-to-helmet hit but for multiple safety violations during the game, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/21/nfl-statement-odell-beckham-jr-suspended-for-multiple-violations-of-player-safety-rules/

 

Well, a new precedent was still set, just not the one I spelled out.  The new precedent is if the league 'feels' a player is accruing too many roughing personal fouls, they can suspend him for it in retrospect because the Refs didn't do their job and eject the player mid game.  It's a make up call.  LOL

 

It's genius as now they don't have to define the actions that the player committed, nor do they have to answer questions about Cody Wallace and his safety violating endangering act (concussions / CTE).  Brilliant.

 

I stand by my feelings OBJ and Norman should have both been ejected during the game.  Since they were not, they both should be suspended one game (as should Cody Wallace).  If the NFL is serious about reducing concussions and cleaning up the game, it is the right thing. But the NFL still chooses selective enforcement on one hand and say they are doing everything they can on the other.

 

Ryan Clark feels OBJ didn't do anything that doesn't happen in most ever game. (I'm not fully on board, but it is a defensive players perspective) He has a take, on First Take-

 

 

[King Colt]

80% of the NFL  consist of young players like Beckham so all the nonsense about his emotions, etc. is yet another long list of excuses the NFL makes for all the misfits and criminals it has. I hope Washing loses so his little side show will hurt little more. He is a punk that obviously does not believe he is a professional and most likely will never be one. I love the players association having the balls to appeal the suspension, based on what? Was that trick photography we saw on that game?. 

[chad72]

Suspension upheld, it will take a miracle for the Giants to make the playoffs.

[amfootball]

13 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Well, a new precedent was still set, just not the one I spelled out.  The new precedent is if the league 'feels' a player is accruing too many roughing personal fouls, they can suspend him for it in retrospect because the Refs didn't do their job and eject the player mid game.  It's a make up call.  LOL

 

It's genius as now they don't have to define the actions that the player committed, nor do they have to answer questions about Cody Wallace and his safety violating endangering act (concussions / CTE).  Brilliant.

 

I stand by my feelings OBJ and Norman should have both been ejected during the game.  Since they were not, they both should be suspended one game (as should Cody Wallace).  If the NFL is serious about reducing concussions and cleaning up the game, it is the right thing. But the NFL still chooses selective enforcement on one hand and say they are doing everything they can on the other.

 

Ryan Clark feels OBJ didn't do anything that doesn't happen in most ever game. (I'm not fully on board, but it is a defensive players perspective) He has a take, on First Take-

 

 

Every disciplinary action is subjective and made on a case by case basis. I don't see a new precedent at all. Beckham violated several safety violations. Him not being ejected by the refs is a separate issue as is Coughlin's handling of him as well. That really is of no concern to the league. They reviewed the game, the offenses that Beckham committed and came up with a one game suspension.

 

In terms of Cody Wallace, they did not deem his intent to be the same as Beckham as his hit took place right after the whistle and was not as pre-calculated as Beckham lining up Norman from his blind side (again, subjective) AND he did not commit anymore violations in the game like Beckham.

 

And Norman did not get off scott free. He got a hefty fine for his actions.

[buccolts]

10 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Did you not comprehend what I said BC. My beef is with Tom Coughlin & how he mismanaged the volatile situation with his superstar WR? What in the world are you talking about? 

 

"Time to reel you in" Excuse me? What exactly did I do that was so over the line? Enlighten me please... Before you condemn someone, you might wanna make sure you grasp that person's point of view fully first. Just saying. 

 

CBFL was making the argument that the officiating crew was most responsible for failing to get control of that football not me. 

 

Also, I'm a football fan when did journalist credentials become necessary to submit a post in any thread here? 

 

Don't try to tell me or anybody else for that matter when to calm down either. The last time I checked I was civil & you're not a moderator. Thank you. 

 

I think you made it quite clear that your beef is with Coughlin, but you ignore things you say on your way to your bigger point. Here's what I'm talking about, and let me know if you don't comprehend.

 

He said: "Refs have to do their part too.  They failed."

You said: "Your placing the bulk of the blame on the NFL zebras officiating the game? Seriously? You have got to be kidding me."

 

I see that as a big leap. He'd acknowledged that other's were at fault, also, and was addressing the refs part. When you make that much of a leap, you remind me of the media, whom we love to bash on here for such actions.

 

And that's why I quipped, 'real you in', just as Coughlin is accused of not doing with OBJ.

 

Explained. Done.

Merry Christmas!

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 minutes ago, amfootball said:

Every disciplinary action is subjective and made on a case by case basis.

At leas the league is consistent!  Just like Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, and Tom Brady's cases, yes?

 

I don't see a new precedent at all. Beckham violated several safety violations. Him not being ejected by the refs is a separate issue as is Coughlin's handling of him as well. That really is of no concern to the league. They reviewed the game, the offenses that Beckham committed and came up with a one game suspension.

 

Norman had 2 personal fouls, Beckham 3.  We all know that the helmet to helmet hit is the reason they gave him a suspension, but they will not admit it, nor define it. There have been two other players in the last 15 that had 3 personal fouls in the same game.  Were they suspended a game as well? In any event, this can be applied to other players in the future, so a new precedent has been established.

 

7 minutes ago, amfootball said:

 

In terms of Cody Wallace, they did not deem his intent to be the same as Beckham as his hit took place right after the whistle and was not as pre-calculated as Beckham lining up Norman from his blind side (again, subjective) AND he did not commit anymore violations in the game like Beckham.

 

Ryan Clark says reading intent is leading to a slippery slope.  He admitted that he hit to hurt and injure all the time he played.  So if it is in between the whistles and not in flagrant violation of the rules, it is ok to knock a guy out for the year.  His intent was to take guys out.  But if he slips and does it just outside the whistle, it is no longer a penalty, it is more because of perceived intent?  Now Cody Wallace, launches head first into the helmet of another players after the whistle, knocks player out of the game.  That is also OK? No suspension?  Then yet another player launches head first into another player, just before the runner is down, does not knock player out of the game, but this one is deemed worse than the others, so Suspension.  I think Wallace, Norman needed 1 game as well, I stand by that forever.  Actually Norman and OBJ need to be sent to the showers during the game.

 

7 minutes ago, amfootball said:

And Norman did not get off scott free. He got a hefty fine for his actions.

Never said he did, he deserves to pay every cent of that.  Needs to lose a game check too, IMO.  Same with Wallace.

 

Here's a podcast of someone who (after lambasting Coughlin, Beckham, and anything in Giants Blue) investigated further why Odell went off, why Eli has his back, why Coughlin says it was wrong, but he supports his receiver, etc...  Essentially he comes to the conclusion the Giants are saying 'we can't say it out loud, but Odell had reasons'  s if there is alot under the surface.  Eli even came out after the game with this-

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/eli-manning-josh-norman-cried-odell-beckham-bust-article-1.2473154

 

Reserved Eli said-  “He just cried a little bit so I didn’t think that was really necessary,” Manning said of Norman on Monday. “I think both those guys were going at it. I don’t think either one was in the right, but I didn’t think one was worse than the other.”

 

Here was a Norman tweet after the game-

 

 

This isn't the last of it, methinks.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

I just heard Maurice Jones Drew weigh in on the subject.  He says people reading intent into things distracts from the real issue.  Player safety.  He says that what Cody Wallace did (in his view) was more egregious an infraction because the play was completely over when he committed the act.  The Beckham play was at least still live.  He feels both of them worthy of a suspension, not just OBJ. He also mention there was pre-game antics with the Steelers in that game too, just like Carolina game.  I think these guys hear things, and can't talk about it.

 

I wonder how many other retired players will weigh in

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, amfootball said:

Every disciplinary action is subjective and made on a case by case basis. I don't see a new precedent at all. Beckham violated several safety violations. Him not being ejected by the refs is a separate issue as is Coughlin's handling of him as well. That really is of no concern to the league. They reviewed the game, the offenses that Beckham committed and came up with a one game suspension.

 

In terms of Cody Wallace, they did not deem his intent to be the same as Beckham as his hit took place right after the whistle and was not as pre-calculated as Beckham lining up Norman from his blind side (again, subjective) AND he did not commit anymore violations in the game like Beckham.

 

And Norman did not get off scott free. He got a hefty fine for his actions.

26 grand is not a hefty fine

[amfootball]

2 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Norman had 2 personal fouls, Beckham 3.  We all know that the helmet to helmet hit is the reason they gave him a suspension, but they will not admit it, nor define it. There have been two other players in the last 15 that had 3 personal fouls in the same game.  Were they suspended a game as well? In any event, this can be applied to other players in the future, so a new precedent has been established.

 

 

Ryan Clark says reading intent is leading to a slippery slope.  He admitted that he hit to hurt and injure all the time he played.  So if it is in between the whistles and not in flagrant violation of the rules, it is ok to knock a guy out for the year.  His intent was to take guys out.  But if he slips and does it just outside the whistle, it is no longer a penalty, it is more because of perceived intent?  Now Cody Wallace, launches head first into the helmet of another players after the whistle, knocks player out of the game.  That is also OK? No suspension?  Then yet another player launches head first into another player, just before the runner is down, does not knock player out of the game, but this one is deemed worse than the others, so Suspension.  I think Wallace, Norman needed 1 game as well, I stand by that forever.  Actually Norman and OBJ need to be sent to the showers during the game.

 

Never said he did, he deserves to pay every cent of that.  Needs to lose a game check too, IMO.  Same with Wallace.

 

Here's a podcast of someone who (after lambasting Coughlin, Beckham, and anything in Giants Blue) investigated further why Odell went off, why Eli has his back, why Coughlin says it was wrong, but he supports his receiver, etc...  Essentially he comes to the conclusion the Giants are saying 'we can't say it out loud, but Odell had reasons'  s if there is alot under the surface.  Eli even came out after the game with this-

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/eli-manning-josh-norman-cried-odell-beckham-bust-article-1.2473154

 

Reserved Eli said-  “He just cried a little bit so I didn’t think that was really necessary,” Manning said of Norman on Monday. “I think both those guys were going at it. I don’t think either one was in the right, but I didn’t think one was worse than the other.”

 

Here was a Norman tweet after the game-

 

 

This isn't the last of it, methinks.

 

Sure it was the helmet-to-helmet that ultimately drew the suspension and I think that is a good precedent to set as the league has been intent on stopping hits the head during the game much less targeting someone's head from the blind side.

 

I agree about intent. It is hard to determine it but that is the league's job to a certain extent. Does not mean they will always get it right but I think everyone was/is in agreement that what Odell did was egregious and worthy of a suspension. So in that regard, I don't have an issue with it. I would have also been fine if they suspended Wallace as well.

[BloodyChamp]

I haven't read all of this but I'm chiming in after having just heard OBJ's recent comments on why he did what he did. He's so desperate to win this that he pulled that card. I hope that doesn't become a thing now every time a player gets backed into a corner. And this is coming from a guy who didn't care about the hit.

[southwest1]

On December 24, 2015 at 9:44 AM, buccolts said:

 

I think you made it quite clear that your beef is with Coughlin, but you ignore things you say on your way to your bigger point. Here's what I'm talking about, and let me know if you don't comprehend.

 

He said: "Refs have to do their part too.  They failed."

You said: "Your placing the bulk of the blame on the NFL zebras officiating the game? Seriously? You have got to be kidding me."

 

I see that as a big leap. He'd acknowledged that other's were at fault, also, and was addressing the refs part. When you make that much of a leap, you remind me of the media, whom we love to bash on here for such actions.

 

And that's why I quipped, 'real you in', just as Coughlin is accused of not doing with OBJ.

 

Explained. Done.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Belated Christmas & A Happy New Year to you too BC. 

 

Yes, I'm loyal to the NY Giants as a regular viewer of their games every single year & as a result, when they play poorly I'm usually not happy about it. 

 

As I stated in later posts in this thread, discipline doesn't stop at an officiating crew's doorstep. The head coach Tom Coughlin should have realized that WR OBJ had at least 3 unsportsmanlike penalties on the field that day vs the Panthers & yet he chose to delegate disciplinary authority to other coordinators & not even sit him down for a brief chat. Why? You can't tell me that Coughlin had no idea what his primary offensive weapon was doing. You can't just unilaterally infer that because the refs failed to eject OBJ or Josh Norman that Tom is off the hook. That's simply crazy to me. 

 

I will admit to CBFL though that I was wrong when I said the Eli & the Giants have more scoring weapons in their arsenal than OBJ. The Vikings defense & secondary proved that on SNF killing Big Blue with crushing them by over 30 points. 

[buccolts]

4 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Merry Belated Christmas & A Happy New Year to you too BC. 

 

Yes, I'm loyal to the NY Giants as a regular viewer of their games every single year & as a result, when they play poorly I'm usually not happy about it. 

 

As I stated in later posts in this thread, discipline doesn't stop at an officiating crew's doorstep. The head coach Tom Coughlin should have realized that WR OBJ had at least 3 unsportsmanlike penalties on the field that day vs the Panthers & yet he chose to delegate disciplinary authority to other coordinators & not even sit him down for a brief chat. Why? You can't tell me that Coughlin had no idea what his primary offensive weapon was doing. You can't just unilaterally infer that because the refs failed to eject OBJ or Josh Norman that Tom is off the hook. That's simply crazy to me. 

 

I will admit to CBFL though that I was wrong when I said the Eli & the Giants have more scoring weapons in their arsenal than OBJ. The Vikings defense & secondary proved that on SNF killing Big Blue with crushing them by over 30 points. 

 

Yeah, there's plenty of blame to go around, on both sidelines, and in between the lines. From HC to HC, player to player, to the zebras. 

 

I agree that Coughlin should have reeled OBJ in (who's got some growing up to do), but I couldn't agree to pull OBJ from the game, as some have suggested. You pull him from the game, and you allow Norman & the Panthers to get their way. The Vikings showed us what that looks like.

 

I didn't know you had emotional ties to the Giants. What happened with their running game this year? Same OL issues that stricken many NFL teams these days?

[southwest1]

4 minutes ago, buccolts said:

 

Yeah, there's plenty of blame to go around, on both sidelines, and in between the lines. From HC to HC, player to player, to the zebras. 

 

I agree that Coughlin should have reeled OBJ in (who's got some growing up to do), but I couldn't agree to pull OBJ from the game, as some have suggested. You pull him from the game, and you allow Norman & the Panthers to get their way. The Vikings showed us what that looks like.

 

I didn't know you had emotional ties to the Giants. What happened with their running game this year? Same OL issues that stricken many NFL teams these days?

Just to clarify, I've never been to Met Life Stadium in person. I just meant that I've never missed a game on theirs on TV or Direct TV for that matter. Yeah, no one entity or coach deserves all the blame that's for sure. 

 

Big Blue's mainstay calling card was their pass rush, which is almost nonexistent this year & you're right their running game is visibly vacant this year too. Watching the Vikings put up nearly 50 points on the board was brutal ouch. I like Mike Zimmer so I could tolerate the smackdown on SNF & their FG kicker was on fire too. Wow! 

 

Eli had a bad night at the office today which was a tough pill to swallow. Not Big Blue's year I guess. So be it. 

 

Yeah, I've never seen such a talented WR unravel that poorly before. I was like OBJ snap out of this strange haze man & refocus please your team needs you. Exactly BC. "Growing up to do" is right on the money. 

[teganslaw]

I watched the game, and couldn't believe how badly the Giants played. Or was it how well Minnesota played?

I know that Beckham is a big part of the Giants' offense, but it's like the whole team imploded without him.. (Except for Rashad Jennings; he had a good game.) I got the impression that with OBJ out, the Giants felt that there was no reason to even try, that their mindset wasn't in the game.

 

There is speculation that Coughlin will be out of a job, but that's been going on for a long time. Somehow, he manages to stay; maybe the front office likes him or maybe it's because of his two Superbowl rings. If it was another team, the coach would probably be gone, so I'm not sure what is going on with the Giants. Not saying that he should be let go (that's not my call), but I find it strange that every year he seems to be on the hot seat and nothing happens.