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27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He deserved it IMO. That was a cheap shot! Hey that helps NFLFan's Vikes out haha 

 

haha Who says we need help? ;)

 

Seriously the Vikes are almost guaranteed a playoff spot. The only way they miss the playoffs is if they and the Seahawks lose their remaining games and Atlanta wins out. 

 

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On December 21, 2015 at 6:01 PM, Jules said:

Giants are pathetic losers.

 

 

I was very disgusted with OBJ's conduct yesterday & I was appalled when Tom Couglin didn't chew his behind out on the sidelines because what he did to CB Josh Norman is inexcusable to me. 

 

I wouldn't say the entire NY Giants roster acted like sore losers Jules just Mr. Beckham. 

 

Man, I'm mad at Coughlin right now. What's to work out? Your star WR acted like a spoiled bleeping brat & I would have pulled him out of the game myself right after that head shot against Josh. OBJ has got to learn how to lose with class & dignity & if doesn't know how to do that then it's my obligation as head coach to teach him that. 

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We watched the entire game and simply could not believe how poorly the refs handled (or should I say didn't handle) the conflict.  They should have some suspensions as well.  

 

Both players should have been ejected.  

 

Coughlin should have sat OBJ down himself.  Cowardice has to be the only reason he didn't.  I can't express how disgusted I am with his coaching.  Well... he could have sat him on the bench for a quarter and now he'll be lost for an entire game.  Good.

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39 minutes ago, Girlzarefanstoo said:

We watched the entire game and simply could not believe how poorly the refs handled (or should I say didn't handle) the conflict.  They should have some suspensions as well.  

 

Both players should have been ejected.  

 

Coughlin should have sat OBJ down himself.  Cowardice has to be the only reason he didn't.  I can't express how disgusted I am with his coaching.  Well... he could have sat him on the bench for a quarter and now he'll be lost for an entire game.  Good.

 

I had the Panthers-Giants radio broadcast on while following the Bears-Vikings game. Carl Banks,  the former Giants player and  color commentator was screaming for Coughlin to sit Beckham.  He sounded so disgusted. After Beckham scored the game-tying TD,  Banks said he still would have removed him from the game. I am surprised that Coughlin did not sit Beckham for at least a series or two.

 

Josh Norman should also be suspended, as he was provoking Beckham before and throughout the game.

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1 hour ago, Girlzarefanstoo said:

Coughlin should have sat OBJ down himself.  Cowardice has to be the only reason he didn't.

 

It's not cowardice, it is winning.  Coaches and fans alike will overlook a multitude of sins because a guy is elite level talented and thus will be in the game until officials or injury removes him.  The coach/team is being paid to win, not instill core values into a player.  This is why GM's/front office investigate and interview everyone under the sun concerning draft picks, looking for that potential loose cannon. Once he is drafted, you're stuck with him... good with the bad.

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9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

It's not cowardice, it is winning.  Coaches and fans alike will overlook a multitude of sins because a guy is elite level talented and thus will be in the game until officials or injury removes him.  The coach/team is being paid to win, not instill core values into a player.  This is why GM's/front office investigate and interview everyone under the sun concerning draft picks, looking for that potential loose cannon. Once he is drafted, you're stuck with him... good with the bad.

It was a cheap shot by OBJ & I don't give a darn how talented a WR is or if we need to win a game vs an undefeated team to stay alive, Coughlin should be ashamed of himself for not forcing Beckham to sit down. I don't care if my job is on the line.

 

You can't leave the misguided impression that cheap shots are acceptable simply because of a WRs incredible production. You kill it immediately before OBJ thinks normal NFL rules don't apply to him.

 

Other owners in the league are watching what Coughlin failed to control & nip in the bud.  Coughln won't be patrolling New Jersey sidelines in 2016 & he needed to do something to show other owners what he will & will not tolerate in games next year. 

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8 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

It was a cheap shot by OBJ & I don't give a darn how talented a WR is our if we need to win a game vs an undefeated team to stay alive, Coughlin should be ashamed of himself for not forcing Beckham to sit down. I don't care if my job is on the line.

 

You can't leave the misguided impression that cheap shots are acceptable simply because of a WRs incredible production. You kill it immediately before OBJ thinks normal NFL rules don't apply to him.

 

Other owners in the league are watching what Coughlin failed to control & nip in the bud.  

 

I'm not condoning it, I'm reporting what an large percentage of our own fans will tolerate and most coaches (especially those on the hot seat) will allow to slide.  Deal with it, they'll say.  It is up to the league and Refs to punish.  Some coaches (I'll bet Herm Edwards would, and many others) will pull a guy and make a statement, others trying to win at all costs will not and push the duty on to the Refs and League trying to preserve their jobs and win.

 

How about players swinging black baseball bats in pre-game... yelling 'things' to OBJ?   How about a knee back to the face in retaliation... on the same play you got the helmet shot?  All game... it takes two to tango...

 

Be candid...

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Just now, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I'm not condoning it, I'm reporting what an large percentage of our own fans will tolerate and most coaches (especially those on the hot seat) will allow to slide.  Deal with it, they'll say.  It is up to the league and Refs to punish.  Some coaches (I'll be Herm Edwards would, and many others) will pull a guy and make a statement, others trying to win at all costs will not and push the duty on to the Refs and League trying to preserve their jobs and win.

 

How about players swinging black baseball bats in pre-game... yelling 'things' to OBJ?   How about a knee back to the face in retaliation... on the same play you got the helmet shot?  All game... it takes two to tango...

 

Be candid...

I didn't say that you did endorse it CBFL. My contention is between OBJ & Coughlin not you personally. Baseball shenanigans have nothing to do with do with a WR's ability to clear his mind & perform well on the field of play.  This isn't a case of a star athlete showing up to practice a few minutes late or a guy falling asleep in meetings who usually catches touchdowns on Sundays. This is a guy lunging at a CB's head for no good reason after the play was essentially over. 

 

Don't give me that alls fair in the heat of battle nonsense either. Linemen or LBs grinding their elbows or knees into a TE or WR after a 1st down completion have nothing to do with what OBJ did to Josh Norman period. Don't try & change the subject to something not relevant to the topic at hand please. 

 

What we are talking about is a HC too scared to sit a WR down because his job is on the line plain & simple. Coughlin has to think about his next city he will be coaching in not OMG it's Beckham he's an icon in NY I can't do anything to that guy. 

 

I don't even blame the refs in this situation because Tom's gotta rein his men in when they go over the line. No excuses no exceptions & I revere the Giants organization. 

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From an article about this:

We come to believe certain things about people, and over time we have associated Tom Coughlin with the military archetype; the one that embodies so many of our great coaches. In the past, Coughlin has fined players for not wearing ties and being late to meetings and wearing cleats that were too colorful on the practice field. He benched players for fumbling and playing poorly. He has attacked opposing coaches for spiking his victory formation. How is this any different? It is a shame that we weren't talking about the end of a great football game, but it's not just the media's fault.

People will try and make this about Beckham and say that he's petulant and immature. Or they'll try and say that the world is out to get him. But what about the people tasked with managing that passion? What about the people on the field who are paid to identify the danger and make it go away?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000606588/article/coughlin-defends-beckham-but-not-antics-vs-norman

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2 hours ago, Girlzarefanstoo said:

Coughlin has fined players for not wearing ties and being late to meetings and wearing cleats that were too colorful on the practice field. He benched players for fumbling and playing poorly. He has attacked opposing coaches for spiking his victory formation. How is this any different?

 

Those are punishments preparing the player for optimum performance. It's different because the Giants were down 28 points, and Beckham was creating a spark to play better that the the Refs would not tame. The Refs are tasked with controlling the players and enforcing the rules of the game.  Coughlin is tasked with winning, 1st.  I agree some coaches would have reigned in their player (Dungy, Edwards, etc...) but it is hard to flag (Refs) or bench (Coughlin) a rising star. Giants eventually tied the score and lost by 3.

 

"Several Giants, including Manning and receiver Rueben Randle, had tried to calm Beckham early in the game, to little avail.

“I told him to make sure no one gets inside his head,” Randle said. “That’s pretty much all I can tell him. Everything else, he’s a grown man.”

And Coughlin said he desperately wanted Beckham to learn to play through his issues, which is why he said he didn’t remove his young receiver.

“He’s gotta learn at some point how to deal with some things on the field,” Coughlin said."

 

Refs have to do their part too.  They failed.

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3 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Those are punishments preparing the player for optimum performance. It's different because the Giants were down 28 points, and Beckham was creating a spark to play better that the the Refs would not tame. The Refs are tasked with controlling the players and enforcing the rules of the game.  Coughlin is tasked with winning, 1st.  I agree some coaches would have reigned in their player (Dungy, Edwards, etc...) but it is hard to flag (Refs) or bench (Coughlin) a rising star. Giants eventually tied the score and lost by 3.

 

"Several Giants, including Manning and receiver Rueben Randle, had tried to calm Beckham early in the game, to little avail.

“I told him to make sure no one gets inside his head,” Randle said. “That’s pretty much all I can tell him. Everything else, he’s a grown man.”

And Coughlin said he desperately wanted Beckham to learn to play through his issues, which is why he said he didn’t remove his young receiver.

“He’s gotta learn at some point how to deal with some things on the field,” Coughlin said."

 

Refs have to do their part too.  They failed.

Your placing the bulk of the blame on the NFL zebras officiating the game? Seriously? You have got to be kidding me...This whole fiasco centers around a HOF coach too chicken to drop the discipline gauntlet in his home stadium. As a 2 time SB Champion, Coughlin will be in high demand next year & he has the cache to firm express his displeasure in his superstar WR with zero repercussions. 

 

Tom was in all likelihood gonna be let go at the end of 2015 anyway so he really had nothing to lose in my estimation. 

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7 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Your placing the bulk of the blame on the NFL zebras officiating the game? Seriously? You have got to be kidding me...This whole fiasco centers around a HOF coach too chicken to drop the discipline gauntlet in his home stadium. As a 2 time SB Champion, Coughlin will be in high demand next year & he has the cache to firm express his displeasure in his superstar WR with zero repercussions. 

 

Tom was in all likelihood gonna be let go at the end of 2015 anyway so he really had nothing to lose in my estimation. 

 

How the heck did you make the leap from "Refs have to do their part too", to placing the bulk of the blame on the NFL Zebras?

 

That's the kind of irresponsible journalism we complain about here, all the time.

You over reacted. You're as emotional as OBJ right now. Time to real you in.

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ColtsBlueFL Simply stated, I could not disagree more.  OBJ crossed the line several times even before the dangerous hit he placed helmet to helmet blindside.  If he had broken the jaw, concussed or caused hearing loss (hitting directly on the ear hole can do that) would you still say the same thing?

 

Normal crossed the line many times as well and HIS coach did nothing.  Winning is important, but not "at all costs."  As a coach you should draw and enforce the lines of acceptable behavior, well before the refs do.  

 

The refs totally blew controlling that situation and should have warned each player earlier in the game that the next outburst would see them thrown out of the game.  

 

One last reason Coughlin blew it - he just allowed the template for throwing OBJ off his game to be broadcast NFL wide.  We will have this discussion again.

 

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7 minutes ago, Girlzarefanstoo said:

ColtsBlueFL Simply stated, I could not disagree more.  OBJ crossed the line several times even before the dangerous hit he placed helmet to helmet blindside.  If he had broken the jaw, concussed or caused hearing loss (hitting directly on the ear hole can do that) would you still say the same thing?

 

Normal crossed the line many times as well and HIS coach did nothing.  Winning is important, but not "at all costs."  As a coach you should draw and enforce the lines of acceptable behavior, well before the refs do.  

 

The refs totally blew controlling that situation and should have warned each player earlier in the game that the next outburst would see them thrown out of the game.  

 

One last reason Coughlin blew it - he just allowed the template for throwing OBJ off his game to be broadcast NFL wide.  We will have this discussion again.

 

I agree. Coughlin's response afterwards was cowardly. He had a chance to sit Beckham and chose not to let him play though? Weak sauce right there. And because he did not sit him for at least a series to make him understand to cool it, he is now suspended for Vikes game.

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25 minutes ago, Luck12-to-Hilton13 said:

Am I missing something? I thought I saw Norman hit Beckham first??  

I believe you are correct, but each man is responsible for controlling himself.  OBJ not only did not do so, he escalated (and Norman continued to respond back).

 

Each was deserving of being ejected from the game.  However, OBJ crossed the greater line.  Norman didn't hit OBJ blindside, after the play, helmet to helmet.  No amount of provocation is worthy of that response.

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14 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I didn't say that you did endorse it CBFL. My contention is between OBJ & Coughlin not you personally. This isn't a case of a star athlete showing up to practice a few minutes late or a guy falling asleep in meetings who usually catches touchdowns on Sundays. This is a guy lunging at a CB's head for no good reason after the play was essentially over. 

 

Yes, he did.  He was Flagged, so was Norman.  Both should have been out of the game right there, maybe even sooner.   It is the Refs job to keep civility and enforce rules in a manner to restore a civil atmosphere.  They failed to do that.

 

Quote

Don't give me that alls fair in the heat of battle nonsense either. Linemen or LBs grinding their elbows or knees into a TE or WR after a 1st down completion have nothing to do with what OBJ did to Josh Norman period. Don't try & change the subject to something not relevant to the topic at hand please. 

 

Did I say all is fair?  I know that after Beckham crashed helmet to helmet into Norman, he feel to the ground and as he was trying to get up, Norman kneed him in the grill (face).  I posted the picture above, and have the closeup video on DVR. Both actions were the same play and deserve immediate disqualification to both players.

 

Quote

What we are talking about is a HC too scared to sit a WR down because his job is on the line plain & simple. Coughlin has to think about his next city he will be coaching in not OMG it's Beckham he's an icon in NY I can't do anything to that guy. 

 

Coughlin isn't thinking about the next city, he was only thinking that game.  Here's proof-

 

"There’s a young player that’s being educated, that quite frankly is an excellent football player, and if we were going to have the chance to win the game, I wanted him to be out there. I’ll be honest with you."

 

But against the odds, Coughlin wagered correctly: not only did Beckham avoid further flag trouble, but the Giants came all the way back from 28 points down to tie the game, and Beckham played a big part in that comeback.  Refs should have had Beckham out of the game so Coughlin's choice would be moot.  They didn't and Giants almost won because of it.

 

Quote

I don't even blame the refs in this situation because Tom's gotta rein his men in when they go over the line. No excuses no exceptions & I revere the Giants organization. 

 

I blame the refs for letting it escalate all throughout the game.  It's their job to maintain an atmosphere that promoted playing football within the rules, not let extraneous actions occur consistently throughout the game.  One or (IMO) both should never have finished the game.  There was (at least one) a play where as they are running downfield, OBJ swung a closed fist (disqualifiable illegal move) and grazed Norman, then body slammed him into the ground.  There were no flags thrown on that play, let alone an ejection.  smh.

 

OBJ is passionate and highly emotional, to his detriment as we witnessed.  He spent the whole first half and part of the 3rd quarter like he was in a cage match, not a football game. He hurt his team, severely. Now all teams will try to get into his head with pre-game antics and slurs (which is now also illegal and needs to be looked into as well).  And he has now set precedent as being the first player suspended for helmet to helmet contact on his first offense.

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38 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

 

But against the odds, Coughlin wagered correctly: not only did Beckham avoid further flag trouble, but the Giants came all the way back from 28 points down to tie the game, and Beckham played a big part in that comeback.  Refs should have had Beckham out of the game so Coughlin's choice would be moot.  They didn't and Giants almost won because of it.

.

Beckham did not play a big role in the comeback. Previous to his only TD of the game that tied the game at 35, he had 5 catches for about 60 yards and had dropped a TD early. Part of the reason he lost his cool in the game is because Norman was shutting him down. And this really has been the recurring theme with Odell. When he faces tough competition and can't get his catches, he gets frustrated and loses his cool. This would have been the perfect game for Coughlin to put a stop to it and sit him down a series. For him to say he wanted Beckham out there to win tells everyone that he feels the ends justify the means. A really surprising comment from him that has made me lose a lot of respect for him.

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1 hour ago, amfootball said:

Beckham did not play a big role in the comeback. Previous to his only TD of the game that tied the game at 35, he had 5 catches for about 60 yards and had dropped a TD early. Part of the reason he lost his cool in the game is because Norman was shutting him down. And this really has been the recurring theme with Odell. When he faces tough competition and can't get his catches, he gets frustrated and loses his cool. This would have been the perfect game for Coughlin to put a stop to it and sit him down a series. For him to say he wanted Beckham out there to win tells everyone that he feels the ends justify the means. A really surprising comment from him that has made me lose a lot of respect for him.

I disagree,


After Beckham's last personal foul near the end of 3rd quarter, here's what he did (essentially nothing before this at 2 catches 8 yards) -

 

Near 2 minute warning 3rd quarter:
2-10-CAR 14 (2:08) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 13-O.Beckham Jr. to CAR 8 for 6 yards (59-L.Kuechly). (set up a TD)

4th quarter:

1-10-CAR 21 (8:11) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 13-O.Beckham Jr. to CAR 13 for 8 yards (20-K.Coleman). (Pick)

3-3-NYG 41 (2:55) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 13-O.Beckham Jr. to CAR 19 for 40 yards (31-C.Tillman).(set up a TD)

4-5-CAR 14 (1:51) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short left to 13-O.Beckham Jr. for 14 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

 

That's 4 catches, 68 yards, 1 TD, setup two others (one converted). in one quarter at the end of the game.

 

Ryan Clark says DB's have been taking cheap shots at Odell since pre-season because he is perceived as not being physical.  He felt Odell came out to finally stand up to it and prove them wrong and took it too far over the line.  Clark also feels he doesn't deserve the suspension either, and didn't see anything he doesn't also see in a football games countless other times. Clark on the NFLPA executive committee (as is Vinatieri and M. Hasselbeck).  Which does bring up the question, do DB's still take 'chippy hits' and trash talk to a known loose cannon that may go off and blindside you too? Or did OBJ get a message across that may ultimately work n his favor and allow him to concentrate on football more?

 

I still think OBJ, Norman, and Wallace all need a 1 game suspension.

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LOL, James Thrash, a former Eagles wide receiver, to decide Giants Odell Beckham Jr.'s appeal, with NFC East title on the line.  I guess there is no chance of a Ndamukong Suh reversal (Stepping on Aaron Rodgers) on appeal now.  :)

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/22/james-thrash-will-hear-odell-beckhams-appeal-on-wednesday/

 

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4 hours ago, Girlzarefanstoo said:

ColtsBlueFL Simply stated, I could not disagree more.  OBJ crossed the line several times even before the dangerous hit he placed helmet to helmet blindside.  If he had broken the jaw, concussed or caused hearing loss (hitting directly on the ear hole can do that) would you still say the same thing?

 

Normal crossed the line many times as well and HIS coach did nothing.  Winning is important, but not "at all costs."  As a coach you should draw and enforce the lines of acceptable behavior, well before the refs do.  

 

The refs totally blew controlling that situation and should have warned each player earlier in the game that the next outburst would see them thrown out of the game.  

 

One last reason Coughlin blew it - he just allowed the template for throwing OBJ off his game to be broadcast NFL wide.  We will have this discussion again.

 

 

I see Norman body slamming OBJ in front of the official, no flags thrown, not even a 15 yarder. Then, I see OBJ tackling Norman, no flags thrown, not even a 15 yarder. I was thinking "why the heck are you turning a blind eye to this"? 

 

Then came the more egregious ones to the head, and I do feel that early 15 yarders for slamming and tackling would have hurt their teams enough that it might have gotten everyone's attention that the refs are not going to sit back and let this unsportsmanlike punkish behavior rule the game. Anyone who thinks the refs are not culpable in what happened is totally blind. The coaches, both of them have a role to play in this as well due to inaction.

 

It by no means excuses what OBJ and Norman continued to do but the refs not seizing the game tempo by the horns early on allowed more transgressions to happen, and the coaches not getting in their player's faces on the sidelines allowed things to go on as well, IMO.

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4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Yes, he did.  He was Flagged, so was Norman.  Both should have been out of the game right there, maybe even sooner.   It is the Refs job to keep civility and enforce rules in a manner to restore a civil atmosphere.  They failed to do that.

 

 

Did I say all is fair?  I know that after Beckham crashed helmet to helmet into Norman, he feel to the ground and as he was trying to get up, Norman kneed him in the grill (face).  I posted the picture above, and have the closeup video on DVR. Both actions were the same play and deserve immediate disqualification to both players.

 

 

Coughlin isn't thinking about the next city, he was only thinking that game.  Here's proof-

 

"There’s a young player that’s being educated, that quite frankly is an excellent football player, and if we were going to have the chance to win the game, I wanted him to be out there. I’ll be honest with you."

 

But against the odds, Coughlin wagered correctly: not only did Beckham avoid further flag trouble, but the Giants came all the way back from 28 points down to tie the game, and Beckham played a big part in that comeback.  Refs should have had Beckham out of the game so Coughlin's choice would be moot.  They didn't and Giants almost won because of it.

 

 

I blame the refs for letting it escalate all throughout the game.  It's their job to maintain an atmosphere that promoted playing football within the rules, not let extraneous actions occur consistently throughout the game.  One or (IMO) both should never have finished the game.  There was (at least one) a play where as they are running downfield, OBJ swung a closed fist (disqualifiable illegal move) and grazed Norman, then body slammed him into the ground.  There were no flags thrown on that play, let alone an ejection.  smh.

 

OBJ is passionate and highly emotional, to his detriment as we witnessed.  He spent the whole first half and part of the 3rd quarter like he was in a cage match, not a football game. He hurt his team, severely. Now all teams will try to get into his head with pre-game antics and slurs (which is now also illegal and needs to be looked into as well).  And he has now set precedent as being the first player suspended for helmet to helmet contact on his first offense.

You seem to be clinging to the argument that the vast majority of discipline in football games revolves exclusively around the officiating crew on Sundays. Yes, they play a role in ensuring the game is safe & that rules are followed otherwise 15 yard penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct are levied on site & if necessary individual player ejections. 

 

Here's my problem with your entire thesis CBFL: You are acting as though disciple begins & ends with the NFL zebras on the field. It doesn't. Tom Coughlin is the moral compass & leader of that football team. He sets the tone of practices, what mistakes they clean up from last week's game, how to light a fire & sense of urgency in his men as the playoffs approach, & when to put his foot down letting a player know he went too far & stepped over the line. Don't pretend like Coughlin is absolved from doing nothing or handing off talking to OBJ by other coordinators, position coaches, & staff members either. 

 

I've said it before & I'll say it again: I don't give a bleep if Tom is trying to win a game to save the Giants season or if he's job security in NJ is on the line. Couglin needed to sit OBJ down permanently right after that Norman head shot even if it meant curtailing the Giants ability to tie the score with the Panthers. Tom needed to chew OBJ's caboose out on the sidelines long before that head shot & if OBJ is that sensitive & fragile too bad. 

 

I'm sick & tired of so many people acting like it's all the refs fault & that their inaction perpetuated this disaster. Yes, mistakes were made & the refs did drop the ball in terms of dispersing penalty flags. So what? It doesn't just end there CBFL. Tom Coughlin sets the tone for Big Blue & his inaction to refuse to discipline OBJ early & harshly created this mushroom cloud which blew up in his face. I am so disgusted at Coughlin right now. I'm fuming. 

 

Winning should never take such precedence that nothing else matters CBFL. If you wanna place the bulk of the blame at the officiating crew so be it, but your dead wrong. To me, it's 20% refs & 80% Coughlin's fault.  

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4 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

LOL, James Thrash, a former Eagles wide receiver, to decide Giants Odell Beckham Jr.'s appeal, with NFC East title on the line.  I guess there is no chance of a Ndamukong Suh reversal (Stepping on Aaron Rodgers) on appeal now.  :)

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/22/james-thrash-will-hear-odell-beckhams-appeal-on-wednesday/

 

 

Suh had a history of cheap shots and he was not provoked when he stepped on Rodgers. Yet his suspension was overturned. How do you see this case being different?  (Why wouldn't Beckham's suspension be reversed too?)  

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10 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Suh had a history of cheap shots and he was not provoked when he stepped on Rodgers. Yet his suspension was overturned. How do you see this case being different?  (Why wouldn't Beckham's suspension be reversed too?)  

 

That was tongue in cheek reference to a Former Eagle not letting any division rival player Beckham / Giants) off the hook.  Actually I think Beckham should win in appeal, because the courts have set precedent that meting out punishment for a violation where that punishment is issued for the first time on first offense doesn't fly. No player has ever been suspended for a helmet to helmet hit on his first violation.

 

What should have happened was OBJ and Norman ejected, if not earlier in the game then on that fateful play. Then (many) fines this week.  Norman will get some fines, too. 

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2 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

That was tongue in cheek reference to a Former Eagle not letting any division rival player Beckham / Giants) off the hook.  Actually I think Beckham should win in appeal, because the courts have set precedent that meting out punishment for a violation where that punishment is issued for the first time on first offense doesn't fly. No player has ever been suspended for a helmet to helmet hit on his first violation.

 

What should have happened was OBJ and Norman ejected, if not earlier in the game then on that fateful play. Then (many) fines this week.  Norman will get some fines, too. 

I don't disagree that that may be the outcome but I do disagree that it should be the outcome.  Also, this wasn't a standard helmet-to-helmet in the course of a play.  It was after the play was over and had the full intent to do harm.  

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2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

You seem to be clinging to the argument that the vast majority of discipline in football games revolves exclusively around the officiating crew on Sundays.

 

The officiating crew missed a few personal foul calls and let the players hand fighting and stiff arms to the facemasks and body slams go unpunished. The officials could have thrown flags, slowed down the escalations, and could go to the HC's and mention ejections would be forthcoming if they didn't stop the players from committing personal fouls.  But the Refs hardly even called them! They 'let them play!'

 

HC take players out of the game because the stupid actions their players commit were hurting the team.  Coughlin was down 28 points, so what damage was an ineffective Beckham doing to the Giants?  Tom wanted him to suffer 'growing pains' and deal with his issues. You don't agree with Tom, and I think the officials could have put a stop to it fa lot earlier by throwing personal foul flags every time the two got into it and threatened with ejections for further disregard of the rules. The officials have disqualification power to remove players from the game. There were plenty of flagrant and violent hits to do this on.

 

So how many plays or series should Tom have Sat Odell? I don't think any coach will take his player out of the game permanent, they'll let the refs do it. I ujst don't think any of them will. Would the two go right back at it as soon as he returned to the field? What do you do if they did it again?  Did Ron Rivera also need to sit Norman for instigating a lot of these actions on the field? These are questions that need to be addressed.

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10 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

That was tongue in cheek reference to a Former Eagle not letting any division rival player Beckham / Giants) off the hook.  Actually I think Beckham should win in appeal, because the courts have set precedent that meting out punishment for a violation where that punishment is issued for the first time on first offense doesn't fly. No player has ever been suspended for a helmet to helmet hit on his first violation.

 

What should have happened was OBJ and Norman ejected, if not earlier in the game then on that fateful play. Then (many) fines this week.  Norman will get some fines, too. 

 

Oh, I know that you were not serious. :)  Given that you are so knowledgeable about this stuff, I quoted you to hear/read your thoughts on what may happen with the appeal. Thanks.

 

I too believe he has a good chance to have his suspension overturned. It seems you and I are in the minority.

Just wondering:  Was Dominic Raiola suspended when he struck another player last year? If so, was it reversed on appeal?

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6 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

The officiating crew missed a few personal foul calls and let the players hand fighting and stiff arms to the facemasks and body slams go unpunished. The officials could have thrown flags, slowed down the escalations, and could go to the HC's and mention ejections would be forthcoming if they didn't stop the players from committing personal fouls.  But the Refs hardly even called them! They 'let them play!'

 

HC take players out of the game because the stupid actions their players commit were hurting the team.  Coughlin was down 28 points, so what damage was an ineffective Beckham doing to the Giants?  Tom wanted him to suffer 'growing pains' and deal with his issues. You don't agree with Tom, and I think the officials could have put a stop to it fa lot earlier by throwing personal foul flags every time the two got into it and threatened with ejections for further disregard of the rules. The officials have disqualification power to remove players from the game. There were plenty of flagrant and violent hits to do this on.

 

So how many plays or series should Tom have Sat Odell?  No coach will take his player out of the game permanent, I don't think any of them will. Would the two go right back at it as soon as he returned to the field? What do you do if they did it again?  Did Ron Rivera also need to sit Norman for instigating a lot of these actions on the field? These are questions that need to be addressed.

Why is it that assumed as common knowledge only Eli Manning can score TDs throwing the ball only to Beckham to win that game on Sunday against the Panthers? Doesn't Easy E have other weapons at his disposal?

 

RB Shane Vereen is great at running screens & running the ball on 3rd & short. WR Hakeem Nicks is still a decent deep threat to take the top off a defense is he not? Rueben Randle has grown as a dependable end zone presence this year & Dwayne Harris beat Dallas this year quite soundly on special teams. So, even if OBJ got ejected which he should have been IMO; it's not like Big Blue is powerless to generate points. In addition, on defense both Roberts Ayers & Cullen Jenkins have had game changing QB hits this year. Not to mention that CB Dominique Rogers Cromartie has had some timely turnovers this year too. So, please don't try & create the illusion that the Giants are nothing without OBJ. Thank you. 

 

Sit him for at least 1 Qtr. If he does it again a cheap shot I mean he's out for the rest of the game. I love how some people act like losing a game as a HC is just unacceptable under any circumstances. It's ridiculous. Coughlin was about to get fired after the regular season anyway & being fired isn't the end of the world. I've been dismissed before & I'm still here breathing & living okay. Coughlin will have many jobs to choose from as a 2 time SB Champion HC & nobody in NY will ever slam Coughlin for having his team unprepared for battle. 

 

I don't care what Rivera did or didn't do to Josh Norman. I care about a coach & an organization that I revere who just didn't do what needed to be done. 

 

I'm not mad at you CBFL & I respect you immensely. It's just evident to me that you & I will never see eye to eye on Sundays game & that's okay. Friends can agree to disagree. I'm cool with that. 

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1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

That was tongue in cheek reference to a Former Eagle not letting any division rival player Beckham / Giants) off the hook.  Actually I think Beckham should win in appeal, because the courts have set precedent that meting out punishment for a violation where that punishment is issued for the first time on first offense doesn't fly. No player has ever been suspended for a helmet to helmet hit on his first violation.

 

What should have happened was OBJ and Norman ejected, if not earlier in the game then on that fateful play. Then (many) fines this week.  Norman will get some fines, too. 

I will grant you that the league may be more lenient regarding the 1st real violent offense a player has engaged in on the field. However, given how the Commissioner is so concerned about head trauma & expense lawsuits, I can't see OBJ skating on a 1 game suspension personally. 

 

Plus, this movie about CTE is in theaters now too...

 

 

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I was watching a taped episode of ESPN's First Take on my DVR & both Skip Bayless & Stephen A Smith, the hosts of the show, mentioned suspending OBJ one game & fining the officiating crew one game check. 

 

Hmmm...I don't know about taking a ref-ing crew's check away because 1. these are part time vs full time positions, 2. zebras themselves are not professional athletes subject to say weigh ins, random drug tests, & strict guidelines over what they can eat & digest into their body or bloodstream, 3. failing to throw penalty flags to calm unruly players down isn't like yelling fire in a crowded theater & somebody gets trampled to death as the mob panics, & 4. As a person who has a nephew officiate basketball games in high school & college, I think it would be wise to remind my audience that refs are there to protect the fans from the players or serve as a safety buffer between following game rules, good sportsmanship, & making sure that no anger spills over & harms the spectator enjoying the event at hand. 

 

So no, if you wanna punish the crew by not giving them a playoff game on TV fine & tell them how to use their flags to deter chip-pyness fine. But don't take away a check from hard working people with their real full time job on the side while they do this NFL thing to augment their income or earn additional disposable income for their own benefit. 

 

Clarification: Refs must be subject to say 1 urination test every 6 months to a year to guarantee that the official is coherent with all their facilities present yes, but the test for illegal drugs in a zebra is no where never as frequent as that of a professional athlete as mandated by the NFL CBA. 

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2 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I'm not mad at you CBFL & I respect you immensely. It's just evident to me that you & I will never see eye to eye on Sundays game & that's okay. Friends can agree to disagree. I'm cool with that. 

 

I'm not upset with you, and agree that we will disagree.  I might have sat OBJ a series and sent a message to cool his jets and get his head in the game.  But there is no way I'm taking one of my best players off the field for the whole game.  Only ones that will be allowed to do that are the officials, and they really should have.  But if they didn;t / don't, then I as a coach won't.  Sorry, that's how I'd roll as a paid HC in the NFL.

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3 hours ago, NFLfan said:

Was Dominic Raiola suspended when he struck another player last year? If so, was it reversed on appeal?

 

I don't think so, fined 10 grand I believe.  And nothing happened after he dove at a Pats DL on a victory formation play..  He might have stomped on someones leg and get a suspension for that.

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9 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

I'm not upset with you, and agree that we will disagree.  I might have sat OBJ a series and sent a message to cool his jets and get his head in the game.  But there is no way I'm taking one of my best players off the field for the whole game.  Only ones that will be allowed to do that are the officials, and they really should have.  But if they didn;t / don't, then I as a coach won't.  Sorry, that's how I'd roll as a paid HC in the NFL.

I will remove a WR, a TE, a DB, or a LB if he's just acting like a spoiled brat because his team is losing. I don't care how popular he is or how much money he makes. That's how I roll unless it's say the last drive in the SB. 

 

Playing in the NFL is a privilege not a god given right. ODJ forgot that vital fact. 

 

We're cool & I enjoyed this lively discussion CBFL. :thmup:

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10 hours ago, Girlzarefanstoo said:

I don't disagree that that may be the outcome but I do disagree that it should be the outcome.  Also, this wasn't a standard helmet-to-helmet in the course of a play.  It was after the play was over and had the full intent to do harm.  

I see your position, I'm inclined to side with you, but...

 

Please go to my earlier post here -

http://forums.colts.com/topic/43017-obj/?do=findComment&comment=1259115

where you will find Cody Wallace 'headhunting' David Bruton after the play was over.  in fact, the runner is down on the ground before Wallace launches in to "clean up the pile".  At least the runner is not fully down on the ground when Beckham launches into Norman.

 

I agree Beckham should be suspended, why was Wallace not suspended?  I feel both are launching leading with the helmet.  That in and of itself is a flagrant offense worthy of suspension (whether the play was over or not), yet Wallace was not.  How about Adam Jones ripping Amari Coopers helmet off, then slamming Coopers head into it? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhZ011qxFrU&feature=youtu.be

Why no suspension there?  It's more of the inconsistency in how the league decides to rule.  Beckham might win in appeal. Ryan Clark says he always hit to harm or intent to injure. It's a violent collision game. But he tried to do it within the rules if at all possible.  So he says trying to add intent is a slippery slope the league and officials need to be careful of.  But there I disagree with Ryan, at times malicious intent can be determined at times.  But in the name of football safety, you can't let plays like the Cody Wallace launching slide and selectively punish others harder. 

 

IMO, the officials should have disqualified Beckham and Norman during the game; I feel there were enough flagrant violations to do so.  Then fine them heavily following.  But the officials didn't, and now the league is trying to clean up the officials mess by selectively applying a multiple offender penalty to a first time violator, and letting other first time violators slide (as I show above) as they typically do.  What was that saying amfootball kept repeating in the NFLPA's cases against the NFL...  "Law of the Shop"  ??

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1 hour ago, Mrs. Misunderstood said:

First, let me be clear, that I in  NO Way, shape or form condone what OBJ did.   

I do however think he was provoked, and I don't think he is the only guilty party here, or the only one deserving of punishment.

 

10524616_10152249758138716_2261181892500

Players get provoked all the time, worse than Odell and don't respond like he did.

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Dean Blandino (on Mike and Mike) admits the officiating crew had early opportunities to 'Set the tone' in the Giant/Panthers game and did not.  He says they could and should have done more.  He says plenty of opportunities to call Unsportsmanlike Conduct and Personal foul violations early that the Refs did not call, as I have already alluded to.  He feels that may well have stemmed the tide in the escalations.

 

Blandino in NY mentions he cannot call the crew on the field to interject his feelings on game situations, he can only communicate with the officials once an official review hits.  When it does, he says he can then also get involved in his feelings on other items concerning the game, that are not judgement calls.  IE: clock issues etc... but not whether there was P.I. on a play. He also mentioned that ejections have to go well above and beyond, but in this game at a certain point, he told the crew if ejectionS were to come, that he and the NFL would support / back them.

{Meaning, OBJ and likely Norman too as Blandino said 'ejectionS', so Norman should have been ejected from the game as well, all things I have pointed out and agree with}

 

 

 

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