Brady Wins, Deflategate Suspension Nullified

[ViriLudant]

The NFL (Actually Walt Anderson and crew) blew it when they asked the security agent for the NFL to return the backup game balls (that were fetched at Anderson's order) to the officials locker room when McNally was found on the sidelines with the first batch of game balls. McNally's batch of balls should have been taken to the officials locker room, quarantined and guarded until the game was over and the backup balls used instead. That is exactly what should have happened. Then measure the first batch of game balls after the game to see if any nefarious activity occurred. And no Ideal Gas Law calcs would be needed. Re-measure in the same place and environment they were measured the first time.

Now what did happen was NFL thought balls were OK because Anderson was told 2 different times to measure them proplerly before the game. They were also unaware of McNally stealing them out from the officials locker room and taking them unescorted. They didn't know squat until some period just before halftime when Grigson told the NFL that they had an under inflated ball in possession, and they were unhappy about it because they had already emailed the NFL about that very subject before the game. So the NFL, with egg on it's face thinking they had handled it, was likely a little livid that possibly somebody, somehow went out of their way to circumvent their pregame football procedure and trying to upset the 'competitive balance'. They still didn't know if it was one ball, or most, or all of them. But it was clear that potentially the whole first half was played with illegal equipment when the Patriots were on offense, and they weren't too happy about that. So at this point, you want them to say "I hear you might be playing shenanigans with game balls. If you are, you better knock it off. Because we'll be watching" .... {over off to the side McNally and Jatremski are desperately trying to hide their smirks...} Yeah, that's not happening in this situation. Too litlle, too late amigo.

I wish Walt Anderson would have done the right thing and declared McNall'ys bag of game balls quarantined under guard and used the backup set of Patriots game day footballs the NFL security agent had brought out to the field. At least we will soon have a full year of pressure testing of game balls before, during, and after games in every conceivable condition at the conclusion of the season. The NFL will likely tighten up their football rules at the end of the season based upon the data.

Excellent post. I completely agree. If they had done that, the truth would easily be known, even if Anderson hadn't written down anything.

[ViriLudant]

You seem to be overlooking Brady's suspension was voided because of a procedural error, not that he was innocent. But that's OK because it wouldn't matter to you either way.

And you also overlook the fact that the Wells Report has been rejected by the vast majority of people as complete garbage, but since that doesn't fit in haters' arguments, it's ignored.

[drewskie]

Let's look at facts before jumping to conclusions either way.

 

1. ESPN/NFL manipulated evidence to make it seem like Pats deflated their footballs which has since been proven to be grossly inaccurate. Turns out the Colts’ PSI readings showed their footballs were just as deflated (ideal gas law). Many actual scientific reports (not Bill Nye the Science Guy who actually got it wrong). In other words, there is not one shred of evidence to suggest the Patriots purposely tampered with the footballs. It has since been proven that the NFL erroneously reported the wrong PSI readings to make it seem as though the Patriots had footballs that were deflated while the Colts' balls weren't, which is why a lot of misinformed people insist that the Patriots only got off on a technicality which couldn't be more inaccurate. Both sets of footballs (Patriots and Colts) were just as under inflated which is the crux of natural physics, and the ideal gas law.

 

2. Brady did not at any point in time knowingly be uncooperative with regards to his phone. The Wells Report moved their goal posts after it was understood that Brady wouldn't be deemed as being uncooperative for not turning over his phone. Not to mention his right as a citizen to keep his phone, as Wells has shown before that unintended "leaks" of people who turned over their phone to him.
 

3. NFL moved their goalposts on multiple times. First it was an “independent Wells report” that they signed off on BEFORE its completion. Goodell publicly endorsed the uncompleted report. It doesn't get any more blatant than that. Leaking stories to the media to turn the tide of public opinion at key times such as Brady "destroying his phone" and purposely deceiving the public to drag someone's name through the mud? Not only is that being power hungry, but that is purposely sabotaging someone else who in their 15 years in the league has not one negative off the field headline or broken any rules to suggest that he is a person with low morals or ethics.
 

4. EVEN IF Brady was actually guilty, an equipment violation carries a maximum penalty of 25K fine. Not one shroud of evidence that he knowingly deflated footballs, told someone to do it. Not one shred of accurate (and often unreported or purposely omitted) to suggest that the Patriots purposely deflated their footballs. Science has since proven that BOTH teams' had underinflated footballs which is supported by the IGL. 
 

5. Cheaters? Define cheating. Cheating is when you purposely break a rule to gain a tangible advantage. Broncos’ used Vaseline vs. Chiefs in the playoffs of their first Super Bowl win. Colts’ pumped in crowed noise and turned up visitor locker room to 90 degrees fahrenheit. Jimmy Johnson’s Cowboys admitted to stealing signals (the real spygate). Jerry Rice admitted to using stick ‘em on his gloves, which is actually cheating. Are all these great teams' legacies tarnished now?

 

6. Even spygate wasn't a case of cheating as they failed to follow a league memo of where teams could film others; as Belichick had stated, they were just doing what everyone else in the league was doing yet we call them cheaters? Denver (Vaseline/salary ca), Indianapolis (crowd noise/locker room temperature), Dallas (stealing signals), San Francisco (stick 'em on gloves), and San Diego (ballboys caught red handed heating footballs) are much more concrete examples of cheating that have been proven with facts and admission of guilt by the respective parties. Yet we're going by accusations that have been debunked with no facts and science and STILL going to declare Brady/Patriots as guilty?

 

7. Meanwhile, the NFL has proven in multiple occasions in the past that they are serial liars in the Bountygate, Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, and Greg Hardy cases, and have also abused their power in EVERY occasion. Somehow, the team that has had 2 high profile propaganda cases greatly exaggerated with lies​ and purposeful inaccuracies is somehow the guilty party? I've been following this case closely since the beginning and none of what the NFL accuses Brady and the Patriots of doing is even remotely truthful quite frankly. I've accurately predicted NFL leaks to the media (see numerous Brady will settle for 1 game etc to prove he is guilty) at key times, and that Judge Berman would overturn the ruling on every level. Took Brady as my only fantasy QB to put my money where my mouth is at as I knew this entire thing was a farce and that Berman also felt the same way.

 

8. Judge Berman ruled that the NFL didn't follow protocol, but if people actually read all the transcripts they'd realize that all indications are that Berman would highly likely rule that Brady was also innocent. Did you guys see him specifically say to the NFL that "he's having trouble finding one shred of evidence" that links Brady or the Patriots for knowingly deflating footballs?

 

I'm sorry to say but a ​lot of people have a losers' mentality. Instead of being jealous of another teams' success and figuring out excuses on why they're just flat out better than you, you would think that more NFL teams would try to right their own ship. I mean, look at Peyton Manning being paranoid that the Patriots bug their locker room. It is hilarious. Maybe if the Colts' front office placed more of an emphasis on defending the run, they'd see more success instead of crying wolf.

[crazycolt1]

And you also overlook the fact that the Wells Report has been rejected by the vast majority of people as complete garbage, but since that doesn't fit in haters' arguments, it's ignored.

Hater? I am a firm believer in where there is smoke there is fire. It is your opinion of what garbage is. Common sense is what I believe in and yet that don't enter the picture when you are a homer and think Brady is above everything.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Complete miscarriage of justice.

[ViriLudant]

Hater? I am a firm believer in where there is smoke there is fire. It is your opinion of what garbage is. Common sense is what I believe in and yet that don't enter the picture when you are a homer and think Brady is above everything.

Common sense says that 3 out of 4 Colt balls were under the legal limit.

Oddly, you never hear any of you talk about it.

[amfootball]

I have managed to go through most of Berman's ruling and something really struck me about what he said during one of the hearings. He told Nash, the lawyer for the NFL, that when Goodell did not make Pash available for Kessler/PA to interview at the appeal hearing and also did not make Wells investigative notes available, they did not allow Brady to make his case against the NFL's accusations. In other words, Brady was prevented from being able to prove his innocence and of course in his ruling one of Berman's reasons for vacating was the appeal and the NFL withholding Pash and the Wells investigative notes.

 

Imagine if Kessler had the chance to see Wells interview notes from Walt Anderson? And also the referee that did the Jets game who blew the balls up to 16 psi - Wells did not include any of his testimony. Or both ball boys who denied that Brady ever told them to deflate balls after the refs inspection. Again, no testimony included. And how about Brady's testimony?? That is just a few to name.

 

Brady did not get off on some technicality in reality. His suspenstion was vacated in part because he was not allowed to defend his innocence to the fullest extent. As a fan of the NFL, it concerns me how naive the mindset is of “Hey if we just cooperate with Roger Goodell, we will get a fair hearing and minor discipline at worst.” That all comes from the wrong assumption that if you don’t cheat, you are safe. But that isn’t the case if the arbitrary and bad notice process problems and the NFL's refusal to conduct a fair appeal hearing make claims of actual innocence impossible to attain.

 

[Gramz]

Why is it SO DAMN IMPORTANT for Pats fans to continue to plead their case here..??

 

I really don't get it.       

[ColtsBlueFL]

Common sense says that 3 out of 4 Colt balls were under the legal limit.

Oddly, you never hear any of you talk about it.

 

Because it is not true.  Remember, 12.5 psi is the lower legal limit for game balls  -

These measurements do not even reflect the expected reduced pressure because of the Ideal Gas Law, yet I see 5 out of 8 are legal.  This is yet another non-fact Patriot fans trot out as absolute trVth so often it becomes legendary fact among themselves, yet it is not.  Oh, for all fans to remember, Patriot ball pressures-

All 12 (including the one the Colts had intercepted was low and why Grigson called the NFL) footballs are illegal.   Everyone of them.  So I applied the ideal gas law and concluded 8 out of those 11 still failed to meet the expected pressure from environmental effects.  It would be better for Patriots fans to stick to the strengths of their case and not rely on fabricated statements.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I have managed to go through most of Berman's ruling and something really struck me about what he said during one of the hearings. He told Nash, the lawyer for the NFL, that when Goodell did not make Pash available for Kessler/PA to interview at the appeal hearing and also did not make Wells investigative notes available, they did not allow Brady to make his case against the NFL's accusations. In other words, Brady was prevented from being able to prove his innocence and of course in his ruling one of Berman's reasons for vacating was the appeal and the NFL withholding Pash and the Wells investigative notes.

 

Imagine if Kessler had the chance to see Wells interview notes from Walt Anderson? And also the referee that did the Jets game who blew the balls up to 16 psi - Wells did not include any of his testimony. Or both ball boys who denied that Brady ever told them to deflate balls after the refs inspection. Again, no testimony included. And how about Brady's testimony?? That is just a few to name.

 

Brady did not get off on some technicality in reality. His suspenstion was vacated in part because he was not allowed to defend his innocence to the fullest extent. As a fan of the NFL, it concerns me how naive the mindset is of “Hey if we just cooperate with Roger Goodell, we will get a fair hearing and minor discipline at worst.” That all comes from the wrong assumption that if you don’t cheat, you are safe. But that isn’t the case if the arbitrary and bad notice process problems and the NFL's refusal to conduct a fair appeal hearing make claims of actual innocence impossible to attain.

 

 

 

I already covered this a couple days ago here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/40016-brady-wins-deflategate-suspension-nullified/page-13?p=1157665#entry1157665

 

" ... the NFL took some eye opening tactics.  Like having Mr. Pash edit the Wells report, but not be available for cross examination in Brady's appeal hearing.  Or keeping requested documents for discovery away from Brady's legal team terming the information 'privileged', or publicly praising Wells for a thorough, "independent" report and later admitting it wasn't independent and didn't have to be while also making himself look locked in to being in support of it and unable to reach a contrary decision in Brady's appeal; if it was shown,  etc..."

 

I believe this was the undue bias Judge Berman needed to vacate the award.  He can not vacate it even if he thinks Brady is innocent (which never implies) unless there is Fraud or Undue Bias (Evident Partiality). 

 

And-

 

These above pretty much sealed the deal.  Goodell could have won this, but he and the NFL felt Article 46 gave them carte blanche power, and it does not as Judge Berman shows.  But this Brady is innocent junk need to stop, here and now.  Judge Berman could not re-try the facts of the case or grant/prove Brady's innocence or guilt.  And he did not. Period.

[drewskie]

To Coltsblue FL, while I agree that the judge has not officially ruled Brady as innocent or guilty in the spirit of the rule, I have disagree with your assessment that "this Brady is innocent junk has to stop". I have called every step of this witch hunt since day 1, and based on what we've seen and heard from Judge Berman such as "I'm having a hard time finding any evidence that implicates Brady" one can make a very strong argument that Berman would likely rule him as "innocent" in the spirit of the rules too. You are of a different opinion, and that's fine but last I checked in America you are innocent until proven guilty, and the NFL has much more of "shady past" when it comes to lying in other high profile cases that they have lost. Brady meanwhile hasn't been tied to any cheating, off field issues, etc so I'm having a tough time understanding how everyone just thinks he's automatically guilty because the serial liars that are the NFL head honchos say so.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Let's look at facts before jumping to conclusions either way.

 

1. ESPN/NFL manipulated evidence to make it seem like Pats deflated their footballs which has since been proven to be grossly inaccurate. Turns out the Colts’ PSI readings showed their footballs were just as deflated (ideal gas law). Many actual scientific reports (not Bill Nye the Science Guy who actually got it wrong). In other words, there is not one shred of evidence to suggest the Patriots purposely tampered with the footballs. It has since been proven that the NFL erroneously reported the wrong PSI readings to make it seem as though the Patriots had footballs that were deflated while the Colts' balls weren't, which is why a lot of misinformed people insist that the Patriots only got off on a technicality which couldn't be more inaccurate. Both sets of footballs (Patriots and Colts) were just as under inflated which is the crux of natural physics, and the ideal gas law.

 

2. {  Snipped.   tldr }

 

First off, I find it highly suspicious that you chose this as your first post.... Hmmm....  welcome...  I think.

 

Next, addressing the bolded part in the first paragraph.  You make these claims yet offer no supporting evidence.  You say Colts balls were just as deflated, yet they were not as I illustrate a few posts above and here:

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/40016-brady-wins-deflategate-suspension-nullified/page-15?p=1159790#entry1159790

 

You mention things have been proven, yet do not display such proof.  Then you trot out this nugget: "why a lot of misinformed people insist that the Patriots only got off on a technicality which couldn't be more inaccurate. Both sets of footballs (Patriots and Colts) were just as under inflated which is the crux of natural physics, and the ideal gas law."

 

You have got some nerve.  I put in the work.  I ran calculations using the ideal gas law.  I did it independent of any other entity. I published all my work for scrutiny here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

 

You, sir, are misinformed, and I dd not read the rest of your post based upon your complete and total lack of integrity and credibility displayed in your first paragraph.  Besdies, I know what is coming next... how the NFL, media, and other fans lie about everything deflategate.  Which would be so ironic considering your likely hypocritical first paragraph.

 

Good day to you, and good luck here.

[ColtsBlueFL]

To Coltsblue FL, while I agree that the judge has not officially ruled Brady as innocent or guilty in the spirit of the rule, I have disagree with your assessment that "this Brady is innocent junk has to stop". I have called every step of this witch hunt since day 1, and based on what we've seen and heard from Judge Berman such as "I'm having a hard time finding any evidence that implicates Brady" one can make a very strong argument that Berman would likely rule him as "innocent" in the spirit of the rules too. You are of a different opinion, and that's fine but last I checked in America you are innocent until proven guilty, and the NFL has much more of "shady past" when it comes to lying in other high profile cases that they have lost. Brady meanwhile hasn't been tied to any cheating, off field issues, etc so I'm having a tough time understanding how everyone just thinks he's automatically guilty because the serial liars that are the NFL head honchos say so.

 

Ah, there it is. Prophesy fulfilled.    

[drewskie]

Good catch, I will look to substantiate that post.

 

I'm curious as to what you think of the other 7 or so points I made though. Especially the ones where the Patriots are cheaters and how you actually define cheating. Thanks.

[IndyRC_Racer]

Why is it SO DAMN IMPORTANT for Pats fans to continue to plead their case here..??

 

I really don't get it.    

The only explanation I can think of is that they aren't pleading the case to us, but they are pleading the case to themselves. They are trying to convince themselves that there was no wrongdoing, but in their hearts there is doubt. We need our sports heroes to be beyond reproach, otherwise all the time we invested in watching can feel wasted.

[Bubbz]

Let's look at facts before jumping to conclusions either way.

 

1. ESPN/NFL manipulated evidence to make it seem like Pats deflated their footballs which has since been proven to be grossly inaccurate. Turns out the Colts’ PSI readings showed their footballs were just as deflated (ideal gas law). Many actual scientific reports (not Bill Nye the Science Guy who actually got it wrong). In other words, there is not one shred of evidence to suggest the Patriots purposely tampered with the footballs. It has since been proven that the NFL erroneously reported the wrong PSI readings to make it seem as though the Patriots had footballs that were deflated while the Colts' balls weren't, which is why a lot of misinformed people insist that the Patriots only got off on a technicality which couldn't be more inaccurate. Both sets of footballs (Patriots and Colts) were just as under inflated which is the crux of natural physics, and the ideal gas law.

 

2. Brady did not at any point in time knowingly be uncooperative with regards to his phone. The Wells Report moved their goal posts after it was understood that Brady wouldn't be deemed as being uncooperative for not turning over his phone. Not to mention his right as a citizen to keep his phone, as Wells has shown before that unintended "leaks" of people who turned over their phone to him.

 

3. NFL moved their goalposts on multiple times. First it was an “independent Wells report” that they signed off on BEFORE its completion. Goodell publicly endorsed the uncompleted report. It doesn't get any more blatant than that. Leaking stories to the media to turn the tide of public opinion at key times such as Brady "destroying his phone" and purposely deceiving the public to drag someone's name through the mud? Not only is that being power hungry, but that is purposely sabotaging someone else who in their 15 years in the league has not one negative off the field headline or broken any rules to suggest that he is a person with low morals or ethics.

 

4. EVEN IF Brady was actually guilty, an equipment violation carries a maximum penalty of 25K fine. Not one shroud of evidence that he knowingly deflated footballs, told someone to do it. Not one shred of accurate (and often unreported or purposely omitted) to suggest that the Patriots purposely deflated their footballs. Science has since proven that BOTH teams' had underinflated footballs which is supported by the IGL. 

 

5. Cheaters? Define cheating. Cheating is when you purposely break a rule to gain a tangible advantage. Broncos’ used Vaseline vs. Chiefs in the playoffs of their first Super Bowl win. Colts’ pumped in crowed noise and turned up visitor locker room to 90 degrees fahrenheit. Jimmy Johnson’s Cowboys admitted to stealing signals (the real spygate). Jerry Rice admitted to using stick ‘em on his gloves, which is actually cheating. Are all these great teams' legacies tarnished now?

 

6. Even spygate wasn't a case of cheating as they failed to follow a league memo of where teams could film others; as Belichick had stated, they were just doing what everyone else in the league was doing yet we call them cheaters? Denver (Vaseline/salary ca), Indianapolis (crowd noise/locker room temperature), Dallas (stealing signals), San Francisco (stick 'em on gloves), and San Diego (ballboys caught red handed heating footballs) are much more concrete examples of cheating that have been proven with facts and admission of guilt by the respective parties. Yet we're going by accusations that have been debunked with no facts and science and STILL going to declare Brady/Patriots as guilty?

 

7. Meanwhile, the NFL has proven in multiple occasions in the past that they are serial liars in the Bountygate, Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, and Greg Hardy cases, and have also abused their power in EVERY occasion. Somehow, the team that has had 2 high profile propaganda cases greatly exaggerated with lies​ and purposeful inaccuracies is somehow the guilty party? I've been following this case closely since the beginning and none of what the NFL accuses Brady and the Patriots of doing is even remotely truthful quite frankly. I've accurately predicted NFL leaks to the media (see numerous Brady will settle for 1 game etc to prove he is guilty) at key times, and that Judge Berman would overturn the ruling on every level. Took Brady as my only fantasy QB to put my money where my mouth is at as I knew this entire thing was a farce and that Berman also felt the same way.

 

8. Judge Berman ruled that the NFL didn't follow protocol, but if people actually read all the transcripts they'd realize that all indications are that Berman would highly likely rule that Brady was also innocent. Did you guys see him specifically say to the NFL that "he's having trouble finding one shred of evidence" that links Brady or the Patriots for knowingly deflating footballs?

 

I'm sorry to say but a ​lot of people have a losers' mentality. Instead of being jealous of another teams' success and figuring out excuses on why they're just flat out better than you, you would think that more NFL teams would try to right their own ship. I mean, look at Peyton Manning being paranoid that the Patriots bug their locker room. It is hilarious. Maybe if the Colts' front office placed more of an emphasis on defending the run, they'd see more success instead of crying wolf.

90 percent of this post is dead wrong the oher 10 is grossly innaccurate

[drewskie]

At ColtsBlueFL,

 

For starters, I am very curious to hear your response to the rest of my original post, it has a lot of content that you ommitted from your response.

 

Assuming your readings are true, even then, it has been scientifically proven that different gauges were used under different conditions; in other words those numbers don't prove anything definitive other than that the Patriots' footballs were generally deflated, which can then in turn be explained by the IGL (Brady likes his footballs on the lower end of the spectrum this I have no doubt just like Rodgers likes his on the higher end, nothing wrong with that). If your footballs are already on the lower end of the spectrum, logic tells me that when those footballs are then subject to colder weather it is natural for the PSI to fall further which has been proven scientifically. In other words, this argument that the Patriots are somehow responsible for abnormally deflated footballs is a myth and even the numbers you used cannot be used to imply that they knowingly did this on purporse.

 

Furthermore, the other main argument to say that Brady is guilty comes from the phone situation. In text messaging, that involves 2 people at least meaning that had Brady given any sort of instruction to the ball boys that could be deemed guilty, then why didn't they find that on the ball boys' phones? Heck, if you have a good case you can even obtain those records from the phone company via a subpoena.

 

The league has withheld their notes on the Wells Report and didn't make one of the prominent names available for questioning. Given how circumstancial evidence has been used against the Patriots, it is ironic that that same principle doesn't apply here where it can be deduced that the NFL has more to hide that they don't want out in public. Common sense tells me that that in addition to using article 46 as the main point of their argument, only someone with a weak case on no facts would use that in an attempt to win a case like this.

[ColtsFan1976]

For the last time. The NFL told the Patriots to suspend them.

 

They were then fired after the suspension.  I do not see any news stories welcoming the two back from wrongful suspension to the Patriots.  They were fired and should now immediately sue the NFL and Patriots for wrongful termination.  Beyond that why would Kraft give in so easily with a $1,000,000.00 fine and loss of two draft picks if nobody did anything wrong.  Kraft in his own words is a hypocrite.  Where is the 'impology' from the NFL.

[ColtsBlueFL]

At ColtsBlueFL,

 

For starters, I am very curious to hear your response to the rest of my original post, it has a lot of content that you ommitted from your response.

 

Assuming your readings are true, even then, it has been scientifically proven that different gauges were used under different conditions; in other words those numbers don't prove anything definitive other than that the Patriots' footballs were generally deflated, which can then in turn be explained by the IGL (Brady likes his footballs on the lower end of the spectrum this I have no doubt just like Rodgers likes his on the higher end, nothing wrong with that). If your footballs are already on the lower end of the spectrum, logic tells me that when those footballs are then subject to colder weather it is natural for the PSI to fall further which has been proven scientifically. In other words, this argument that the Patriots are somehow responsible for abnormally deflated footballs is a myth and even the numbers you used cannot be used to imply that they knowingly did this on purporse.

 

Furthermore, the other main argument to say that Brady is guilty comes from the phone situation. In text messaging, that involves 2 people at least meaning that had Brady given any sort of instruction to the ball boys that could be deemed guilty, then why didn't they find that on the ball boys' phones? Heck, if you have a good case you can even obtain those records from the phone company via a subpoena.

 

The league has withheld their notes on the Wells Report and didn't make one of the prominent names available for questioning. Given how circumstancial evidence has been used against the Patriots, it is ironic that that same principle doesn't apply here where it can be deduced that the NFL has more to hide that they don't want out in public. Common sense tells me that that in addition to using article 46 as the main point of their argument, only someone with a weak case on no facts would use that in an attempt to win a case like this.

 

To the rest of your other post, and this one-

 

Asked and answered. 

 

My thoughts on all of these items are littered all throughout the various (and many locked) deflategate threads.  I'm not rehashing stuff here we on the forum have heard and addressed many countless times before (including my inductive reasoning conclusions on the gauge issue). We are quite tired and bored with it frankly.  The only thing of interest to me personally at this time was the due process failings of the league at Brady's appeal hearing, and whether the NFL continues to pursue it's appeal (which I hope they drop, but know they won't). And where the owners decide to go from here.

 

And, of course, Colts football! 

[TheBlackHand]

Good afternoon fine colts fans. Been reading this forum since January . Must give props to colts blue and a few others for their fine analysis and upholding the faith Hope to join in with some constructive feedback for Americas most hated team

[ViriLudant]

Why is it SO DAMN IMPORTANT for Pats fans to continue to plead their case here..??

I really don't get it.

Some of us have been posting here for far, far longer than you. Not only that, misinformation should be corrected.

[ViriLudant]

First off, I find it highly suspicious that you chose this as your first post.... Hmmm.... welcome... I think.

Next, addressing the bolded part in the first paragraph. You make these claims yet offer no supporting evidence. You say Colts balls were just as deflated, yet they were not as I illustrate a few posts above and here:

http://forums.colts.com/topic/40016-brady-wins-deflategate-suspension-nullified/page-15?p=1159790#entry1159790

You mention things have been proven, yet do not display such proof. Then you trot out this nugget: "why a lot of misinformed people insist that the Patriots only got off on a technicality which couldn't be more inaccurate. Both sets of footballs (Patriots and Colts) were just as under inflated which is the crux of natural physics, and the ideal gas law."

You have got some nerve. I put in the work. I ran calculations using the ideal gas law. I did it independent of any other entity. I published all my work for scrutiny here-

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

You, sir, are misinformed, and I dd not read the rest of your post based upon your complete and total lack of integrity and credibility displayed in your first paragraph. Besdies, I know what is coming next... how the NFL, media, and other fans lie about everything deflategate. Which would be so ironic considering your likely hypocritical first paragraph.

Good day to you, and good luck here.

You keep posting your "experiment" as if it covers every factor that was in Foxborough that night, and anyone who is honest knows that's not even remotely true.

[Gramz]

Some of us have been posting here for far, far longer than you. Not only that, misinformation should be corrected.

No-one said anything about longevity.   

 

And just because you've been here longer, doesn't automatically put you in a category of better and/or more qualified poster.

 

 

My Misunderstanding ~   or failure to understand ~  of WHY you are here, comes from the fact that you and another poster here continuously  Slam our forum,  slam posters on our forum, and slam Moderators of our Forum on your own forum known as  the Planet,  YET you continue to come here.   

 

If we're all so bad,  WHY do you come here.   That was my question.

[ViriLudant]

They were then fired after the suspension. I do not see any news stories welcoming the two back from wrongful suspension to the Patriots. They were fired and should now immediately sue the NFL and Patriots for wrongful termination. Beyond that why would Kraft give in so easily with a $1,000,000.00 fine and loss of two draft picks if nobody did anything wrong. Kraft in his own words is a hypocrite. Where is the 'impology' from the NFL.

Right. No NFL team would fire them after their text messages clearly showed them insulting their employers.

[drewskie]

At Bubbz,

 

Kindly point out which 90% of what I stated is wrong. I can provide you links for every cheating scandal for Denver, Indy, SD, Dallas, San Fran, etc. All of which are undeniable with admission from each guilty party. The equipment violation rule is stated as maximum 25K fine. The Wells Report has been proven to be tampered with and not "independent" as the NFL had originally claimed. I fail to see any points other than the first paragraph that can be interpreted as not fully accurate.

 

Meanwhile even the readings of the PSI contained are arbitrary conducted incorrectly. How can anyone make a judgment call that these readings can be interpreted as guilty or innocent either way? As such, while it doesn't prove Brady's innocence necessarily, it also doesn't have one shred of evidence that he knowingly ordered any of the ball boys to deflate the ball beyond the legal limit. How can someone be deemed guilty by that measure alone other than the fact that the NFL's PR machine has leaked key storylines to alter public opinion in their favor?

[Gramz]

The only explanation I can think of is that they aren't pleading the case to us, but they are pleading the case to themselves. They are trying to convince themselves that there was no wrongdoing, but in their hearts there is doubt. We need our sports heroes to be beyond reproach, otherwise all the time we invested in watching can feel wasted.

Could be.   Sometimes I think it is that they want everyone to agree with them that Brady and the Patriots are the best ever.  They don't only want that, they need that.  

 

It's become a self esteem thing for them.  The very thought that others don't think as highly of Brady and the Patriots as they do has them fuming.  

 

[ricker182]

And you also overlook the fact that the Wells Report has been rejected by the vast majority of people as complete garbage, but since that doesn't fit in haters' arguments, it's ignored.

Haters?

Really?

[ricker182]

No-one said anything about longevity.

And just because you've been here longer, doesn't automatically put you in a category of better and/or more qualified poster.

My Misunderstanding ~ or failure to understand ~ of WHY you are here, comes from the fact that you and another poster here continuously Slam our forum, slam posters on our forum, and slam Moderators of our Forum on your own forum known as the Planet, YET you continue to come here.

If we're all so bad, WHY do you come here. That was my question.

My thoughts exactly.

Why come to the Colts forum to slam every "hater" and continually defend a cheating team?

Just stay in your own Boston circle and feed your egos.

How many NFL teams have been stripped of their first round pick for breaking the rules?

Quit whining about it and then in the same breath defend the action. It's against the rules.

[ricker182]

Common sense says that 3 out of 4 Colt balls were under the legal limit.

Oddly, you never hear any of you talk about it.

You are the one lying. And then you go ahead and say people are misinformed while you're spreading misinformation.

That's seriously messed up.

Keep telling yourself the lie so you'll truly believe it.

[AZColt11]

What I don't get in all of this is why in the world would the NFL want to start a "witch hunt" of the Pats and Brady in particular?  The NFL, which makes billions, off of it's most popular (and best) teams and players and they WANT to find that one of those teams, and quite possibly one of the greatest players of all-time, is guilty of infraction or "bending the rules"?  What good could this possibly serve the NFL?  That "idea" has never resonated with me.  The Colts or Ravens, yes, I could understand that.  But the NFL league office?  It just doesn't add up.  And I suspect that, coupled with the massive amounts of money required to argue their case, they would much rather have no scandal and not have the prospect of losing NFL fans staring them in the face.  

 

Can ANYBODY tell me why this would be GOOD for the NFL?

[ColtsBlueFL]

You keep posting your "experiment" as if it covers every factor that was in Foxborough that night, and anyone who is honest knows that's not even remotely true.

 

You're right, it does not, but does get most and all of the major contributors  (care to name any other factors?) But this part of a puzzle. This piece was constructed to tell if outside environment could fully explain the loss of pressure in the game balls for the Pats.  Yes, an educated assumption or two were made (believing Jastremski and Walt Anderson set all game balls to 12.5 or 12.6 psi before the game, etc... but that's best case scenario for Brady anyway...) but all of those assumptions were also tested for validity in other posts as well.  This piece I performed tells me there was more than weather involved, and that I trust the Exponent procedures.  More exterior influences were involved, but  It does not prove what those were .That is what all of the other investigation items were for... fill in the other puzzle pieces until the picture becomes whole.

 

What work have you put in besides reading The Boston Globe, PFT, and any blogger selling Patriot Kool-Aide?  Where in my work are there mistakes or mis-characterizations in the data used or results calculated?  I clearly stated the purpose of why I did it in the beginning, some out there were making mistakes Using gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure, and not converting Temp the Kelvin, etc...).  I wanted to see if the IGL passed or failed the Patriots footballs for myself.  And because of it, I believe there was additional factors than just weather involved.  The texts messages, Bird stealing the balls and hiding out in a bathroom etc all just add to puzzle.

 

But I don't care, because

1. JJ and Bird won't ever touch another game ball again, and

2. the game balls will be guarded like a Brinks truck at all times once the Referees get them on game day. 

 

And they will be placed at exactly 13.0 psi if they come in out of spec for inspection.  The beauty of another Pats rule...

[ViriLudant]

Could be. Sometimes I think it is that they want everyone to agree with them that Brady and the Patriots are the best ever. They don't only want that, they need that.

It's become a self esteem thing for them. The very thought that others don't think as highly of Brady and the Patriots as they do has them fuming.

Amusingly, many Colt fans used to say the same of Peyton.

They've since seen otherwise, though.

[ViriLudant]

You are the one lying. And then you go ahead and say people are misinformed while you're spreading misinformation.

That's seriously messed up.

Keep telling yourself the lie so you'll truly believe it.

You need to stop.

The chart listed above shows Colt balls under 12.5.

That is, by definition , illegal . Never before has the NFL shown ANY interest in the IGLs.

[amfootball]

I already covered this a couple days ago here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/40016-brady-wins-deflategate-suspension-nullified/page-13?p=1157665#entry1157665

 

" ... the NFL took some eye opening tactics.  Like having Mr. Pash edit the Wells report, but not be available for cross examination in Brady's appeal hearing.  Or keeping requested documents for discovery away from Brady's legal team terming the information 'privileged', or publicly praising Wells for a thorough, "independent" report and later admitting it wasn't independent and didn't have to be while also making himself look locked in to being in support of it and unable to reach a contrary decision in Brady's appeal; if it was shown,  etc..."

 

I believe this was the undue bias Judge Berman needed to vacate the award.  He can not vacate it even if he thinks Brady is innocent (which never implies) unless there is Fraud or Undue Bias (Evident Partiality). 

 

And-

 

These above pretty much sealed the deal.  Goodell could have won this, but he and the NFL felt Article 46 gave them carte blanche power, and it does not as Judge Berman shows.  But this Brady is innocent junk need to stop, here and now.  Judge Berman could not re-try the facts of the case or grant/prove Brady's innocence or guilt.  And he did not. Period.

I was giving my perspective on the ruling after reading all 40 pages and then comparing with the hearing transcripts. Many people hold the opinion that Brady's suspension was vacated on a technality. As I read through Berman's ruling, I realized that his point about Brady not being able to examine Pash or review Well's notes means Brady was unable to prove his innocence. That is significant IMO and something I had not realized prviously. I must have missed your previous post but sounds like we agree anyways. I was not implying that Brady was said to be 100 percent innocent but that Berman's ruling demonstrates Brady was not given a fair chance to prove innocence.

[Gramz]

Amusingly, many Colt fans used to say the same of Peyton.

They've since seen otherwise, though.

And many still feel he is amongst the best ever.  So What..??     Must you always deflect to Peyton when someone doesn't want to crown Tom?   

 

But since you must bring it up,  Peyton will always be considered a Hero to many in Indy, and if some express it here, so what? Remember, you are in our House....  Not the other way around.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

The judge may of reduced the suspension  , But Tom Brady is still a liar & cheater as is the Patriots organization going back a decade lets not forget that boys & girls ,

[BloodyChamp]

Let's look at facts before jumping to conclusions either way.

Yes...let's...because I don't know what all that was.

[BloodyChamp]

And many still feel he is amongst the best ever. So What..?? Must you always deflect to Peyton when someone doesn't want to crown Tom?

But since you must bring it up, Peyton will always be considered a Hero to many in Indy, and if some express it here, so what? Remember, you are in our House.... Not the other way around.

I mean it's almost as absurd as considering Johnny U a hero...don't you get it? And those Packer fans and that Brett Favre guy...please. And can we just take Joe Namath to NY and give him a lynching already? Just makes no sense.

When the mods lock this, they should make it so that your self esteem comment is that last 1 because that was spot on and it applies to every topic here for the last 2 years.

[ColtsFan1976]

Did Brady testify under oath to the federal judge?  I am not finding any news articles he did.  What Patriot fans still do not understand is the way the NFL conducted their investigation is the reason why the four game suspension was dismissed.  I do not recall reading any place where the federal judge said Brady had nothing to do with the deflation of footballs.  I know this is a civil matter so the burden of proof is different than criminal, but A LOT  of people have been convicted for being generally aware of having knowledge that someone was going to commit a crime and did nothing about it. 

[ColtsFan1976]

Right. No NFL team would fire them after their text messages clearly showed them insulting their employers.

 

Insulting their employer.  I do not believe the insults in the texts really reached a level for them to be fired.  You can be critical of your employer and then you can be CRITICAL.