Brady Wins, Deflategate Suspension Nullified

[AZColt11]

OJ got off and I don't know anybody that thinks he was innocent.  Now I'm certainly not comparing what OJ did to what Brady was accused of, of course, only that the system doesn't always work.  Sometimes the decisions get locked up in the burden of proof and procedural items and the things that are staring you in the face get lost.  I sense that's what happened here.

 

Oh well, time to move on.  It's football season.  Time to decide things on the field.

[DougDew]

You apparently have missed the following:

 

The CBA is a contract between a labor union and a management group. 

 

It is therefore a contract and a contract involving labor relations.

 

As such, it is subordinate to both contract law and labor laws.  When there is a conflict between the labor laws and the face of a CBA or how it is applied the former controls.

 

Labor laws require that the union member be put on notice that a specific act carry an enumerated penalty prior to the latter being imposed. 

 

In the instant case Brady was not on notice that any of his actions would carry a penalty of a suspension.

 

Accordingly, he can not be suspended.  Period.

 

What surprises me DougDew is the list of folks on this board can not follow the above simple logical progression.

One other part of this complex situation....

The NFL employs custodians, window washers, office assistants, etc....just like every other company does. If Goodell tried to discipline one of them, he would be subjected to the same precedents other companies have had.

But the job of NFL football player is a unique profession. In part, because the product that the NFL creates is nothing more than the set of rules Brady violated.

To use the common labor laws to interpret what the logical course of action should be is just laziness on the part of the judge.

What he should have done is come up with his own unique ruling and setting his own unique precedence for this unique situation and profession..one that made sense...instead of falling back on precedence designed to interpret more common labor agreements and occupations.

[BFTW]

I bring this question to all three of you because I'm interested in hearing what you have to say.  If Brady did nothing wrong, as you all claim, why would he agree to a 1 game suspension?  If you did not commit a crime, would you agree to go to jail on a reduced sentence?  Does that make any sense?

 

"You have to go to jail for 5 years"

"No way, I did nothing wrong"

"Fine, go to jail for 1 year"

"Sure, that's fine"

 

There's two answers to this. The more important and relevant answer is that Brady was not willing to accept a suspension. His attorney explicitly stated that he would not accept any punishment that included a suspension.

 

Separately, do you believe that everyone who agrees to a plea bargain is innocent? Because that's not true. Innocent people agree to plea bargains pretty regularly, because they know that they have too much to lose if the judgment goes against them, innocent or not. Compromising even when innocent is something that a lot of people have done. Brady wouldn't have been the first, even if he'd been willing to do it (which he wasn't). 

 

Link showing that Brady was unwilling to accept suspension: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/08/19/tom-brady-remains-unwilling-to-accept-deflategate-related-suspension-from-nfl-contrary-to-earlier-report/

Edited September 5, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[BFTW]

Does the CBA not give the commissioner authority in these matters?

It's actually Doty and now Berman who are ripping up the CBA, not Goodell.

 

The CBA gives Goodell the authority to serve as arbitrator. It does not give him the authority to violate federal law. His actions were in violation of the Federal Arbitration Act, and were also in violation of the core arbitration principles known as law of the shop. 

 

Even if the players were inclined to give Goodell CBA-negotiated powers that went above and beyond what the FAA says an arbitrator can legally do, they would be unable to. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[ViriLudant]

Or a long labor dispute?

This will be the big issue, agreed.

[21isSuperman]

There's two answers to this. The more important and relevant answer is that Brady was not willing to accept a suspension. His attorney explicitly stated that he would not accept any punishment that included a suspension.

 

Separately, do you believe that everyone who agrees to a plea bargain is innocent? Because that's not true. Innocent people agree to plea bargains pretty regularly, because they know that they have too much to lose if the judgment goes against them, innocent or not. Compromising even when innocent is something that a lot of people have done. Brady wouldn't have been the first, even if he'd been willing to do it (which he wasn't). 

 

Link showing that Brady was unwilling to accept suspension: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/08/19/tom-brady-remains-unwilling-to-accept-deflategate-related-suspension-from-nfl-contrary-to-earlier-report/

I hadn't seen that report before.  The article seems a little sketchy to me, though.  "Three people with knowledge of the proceedings of Brady's legal team..."  It doesn't list any names or anything like that.  The Washington Post is a reliable source, but I don't know how accurate this is.  There are many articles that say the opposite of what that one does

[bababooey]

LOL he just wrote on Facebook he's sorry the league had to endure this. Bro you denied and covered up and destroyed evidence and you're "sorry" the league had to endure it? It's your fault

[ColtsBlueFL]

Federal court judge's decisions are reversed 7.5% of the time by the second circuit and Bermans are reversed even less than that. Most understand this filing by the NFL is just to save face.

 They (NFL) are awaiting the ruling on the Adrian Peterson appeal.... which will come before this one... and if favorable then apply it here...

[Jules]

[ColtsBlueFL]

The CBA gives Goodell the authority to serve as arbitrator. It does not give him the authority to violate federal law. His actions were in violation of the Federal Arbitration Act, and were also in violation of the core arbitration principles known as law of the shop. 

 

Even if the players were inclined to give Goodell CBA-negotiated powers that went above and beyond what the FAA says an arbitrator can legally do, they would be unable to. 

 

Question... how can "laws of the shop" apply to infractions that have never occurred before?

[ColtsBlueFL]

This will be the big issue, agreed.

 

Owners have deep pockets... 80% of the money in the NFL is earned by 20% of the players.  The next CBA talks will have many non elite players suffering... bank it.

[Gramz]

omgoodness     Hilarious.     

[amfootball]

 They (NFL) are awaiting the ruling on the Adrian Peterson appeal.... which will come before this one... and if favorable then apply it here...

Yes and no. The only part that was applicable was the law of the shop part which I would expect that to get upheld in Peterson anyway as that is law; from Berman in his ruling, "A player's right to notice is at the heart of the CBA and, for that matter, of our criminal and civil justice systems."

 

 

But the other part for Brady is the unfair appeals process which does not exist for Peterson.

[amfootball]

FYI - multiple sources including the Washington Post and Bleacher Report are reporting that many owners did NOT want the NFL to appeal Berman's decision ....

 

Also, the owners will discuss potentially reducing Goodells' role in disciplinary matters, http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/09/04/nfl-owners-reportedly-discuss-change-roger-goodell-role-league-discipline/kQBFwW9lHkblrLDJpxEcYK/story.html?p1=menu_sports_latest

[Flying Elvis]

LOL he just wrote on Facebook he's sorry the league had to endure this. Bro you denied and covered up and destroyed evidence and you're "sorry" the league had to endure it? It's your fault

This was bad for the league. They didn't understand that weather affects footballs so they accuse the Patriots of cheating. The whole world lapped it up because they wanted it to be true. 31 other teams would gain a competitive advantage by taking down the Patriots so they went along with it.

 

There were many lies and cover-ups but it wasn't by the Patriots. With the exception of the phone, Brady did everything an innocent person would.

[ViriLudant]

"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt."

Julius Caesar

[Gramz]

"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt."

Julius Caesar

yes.  and this goes both ways here, as always.

 

time to move forward.

[crazycolt1]

This was bad for the league. They didn't understand that weather affects footballs so they accuse the Patriots of cheating. The whole world lapped it up because they wanted it to be true. 31 other teams would gain a competitive advantage by taking down the Patriots so they went along with it.

 

There were many lies and cover-ups but it wasn't by the Patriots. With the exception of the phone, Brady did everything an innocent person would.

 

This was bad for the league. They didn't understand that weather affects footballs so they accuse the Patriots of cheating. The whole world lapped it up because they wanted it to be true. 31 other teams would gain a competitive advantage by taking down the Patriots so they went along with it.

 

There were many lies and cover-ups but it wasn't by the Patriots. With the exception of the phone, Brady did everything an innocent person would.

Yeah the NFL just wanted to bring Brady down.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

FYI - multiple sources including the Washington Post and Bleacher Report are reporting that many owners did NOT want the NFL to appeal Berman's decision ....

 

Also, the owners will discuss potentially reducing Goodells' role in disciplinary matters, http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/09/04/nfl-owners-reportedly-discuss-change-roger-goodell-role-league-discipline/kQBFwW9lHkblrLDJpxEcYK/story.html?p1=menu_sports_latest

 

As well they should.  What came out about the appeals case in deflategate shows just too much power afforded the NFL Commissioner and a subsequent disregard for fair due process in grievance appeals.  I am now for a neutral Arbitrator ( 1 , or 3 panel ) to hear appeals of punitive cases for all 'off the gridiron' cases.  I know owners will want something in return for this collectively bargained item.  Allow the Commissioner to retain disciplinary power for off the field incidents via PCP, but have a checks and balances system in place via a neutral appeals process.

 

As it stands now, every player is going to want to rush to the Federal Court system (thus the NFLPA will have to weigh the benefits of each case before spending the cash on their highly skilled and compensated legal team.) for relief.  This goes against everything an arbitration system stands for.  This system is to reduce time, costs, and freedom from technicalities, and ....  finality.  The current methods employed by th NFL and NFLPA go against every intention of having an arbitration system in the first place.  Everything of substantial nature seems to end up in Federal court.

 

To me (and our attorney members here may disagree with me) there are only two ways to get an arbitration award appealed an vacated-  Fraud or Evident Partiality.  If the arbitrator should make a mistake of law or fact, well... that's the way the cookie crumbles.  Build a bridge and get over it.  But if you show evidence of partiality, then gloves come off.  Goodell/NFL could have handled it in such a way that partiality was not in evidence, and stood a great chance of having the award confirmed; even if the judge felt the award was a misguided one in light of case facts.  But Pash / NFL edited the Wells report before public release, wouldn't allow Notes and other 'privileged' information to Brady's appeal team in discovery, and refused a key witness from the NFL to be cross examined by Brady's team.  Why NFL??  Because they feel they have unlimited power, and could set the table of the proceedings the way they feel, and now I feel checks and balances to it need to be put in place.  And Goodell should never have publicly praised the Wells report, then later sat as an arbitrator where that was a key component of the case. That to me showed the Evident Partiality for Judge Berman to go deeper into the case and rule the way he did. I'm dismayed, but understand.

 

I said it before, I will say it again.  I feel the NFL had a near slam dunk case, and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.  I want them to drop their appeal of deflategate, and the owners to begin the process to look at ways they can improve the system until the next CBA.

[ColtsBlueFL]

This was bad for the league. They didn't understand that weather affects footballs so they accuse the Patriots of cheating. The whole world lapped it up because they wanted it to be true. 31 other teams would gain a competitive advantage by taking down the Patriots so they went along with it.

 

   many lies and cover-ups but it wasn't by the Patriots. With the exception of the phone, Brady did everything an innocent person would.

 

They might not have understood the full IGL, but everyone knows inflated objects feel less full in the cold.  They felt the pressures were too low to not have tampering, and IGL tests prove that is very likely true.  I ran the numbers here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

 

and the results state 8 out of the 11 Patriot balls tested failed the IGL suggesting other outside influences (ball boys in a bathroom?) while only 1 out of 8 Colts balls failed the IGL test.  I read the exponent tests and ran a few calcs of my own because I wanted to verify via my own calculation method and not take Exponents work as gospel. Judge Berman accepted the facts as Goodell found them (footballs were deflated being one) in his ruling, and even tells Kessler somebody deflated the footballs, why would JJ or McNally do that without Brady's permission?

 

So you can get off the NFL/ESPN made this story up to maim the Patriots and Tom Brady because they're just too good for the league and need to be brought to their knees in any way conceivable.  Sheesh.  If the NFL wasn't so power drunk incompetent, I think they handle the appeal better and Brady watches the games on RedZone and DirecTV until the Colts game. But the NFL messed up and showed their biased hand too.  This was bad for the league in whole because two wrongs don't make a right, (but 3 rights make a left...  )

 

Brady and the Patriots were not found innocent, the NFL was found biased and incompetent to handle grievance appeals.  Period.

[ColtsBlueFL]

"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt."

Julius Caesar

 

"felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas"

 

Virgil

[HOZER]

"Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt."

Julius Caesar

"Rather fail with honor than succeed by fraud."

Sophocles

[dw49]

This was bad for the league. They didn't understand that weather affects footballs so they accuse the Patriots of cheating. The whole world lapped it up because they wanted it to be true. 31 other teams would gain a competitive advantage by taking down the Patriots so they went along with it.

 

There were many lies and cover-ups but it wasn't by the Patriots. With the exception of the phone, Brady did everything an innocent person would.

 

 

And the text and bathroom trips didn't happen .

[southwest1]

Then he was asked if he was a lamp breaker, the boy responded 'I don't think I am.'

 

Even though I have NE fans on here that I like & respect, I've gotta admit I found this joke hysterical. Well played odr! Well played. Yeah, I know Brady won. I accept that now. 

Actually, my friends NFLFan and SW1. They will not get their jobs back.  In the letter to Bob Kraft punishing the Patriots, (which Kraft accepted), this was also included-

 

"Neither [McNally nor Jastremski] may be reinstated without my prior approval. If and when he resumes working for the Patriots, Mr. Jastremski is prohibited from having any role in the preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs to be used in NFL games during the 2015 season

....

Mr. McNally is barred from serving as a locker room attendant for the game officials, or having any involvement with preparation, supervision, or handling of footballs or any other equipment on game day."

 

So I very much doubt either will have a job with the Patriots henceforth...

Thanks for setting me straight CBFL. I appreciate your legal feedback on matters like this just like I do Yehoodi as well. 

[ViriLudant]

Yeah the NFL just wanted to bring Brady down.

If you believe otherwise, answer me this:

Why didn't the NFL just tell the Patriots to stop any shenanigans with the footballs, like they did with other teams?

Why conduct a sting operation ?

[ViriLudant]

"felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas"

Virgil

Sadly, that doesn't apply to most here. Many make claims here without even reading Berman's 40 page document.

[southwest1]

Here's my question: If I accept the premise that Roger Goodell overstepped his authority meaning the duration of Tom's suspension & making unfounded comparisons that a PED violation gave the Commissioner the right to impose a 4 game suspension was completely wrong & I now do, what legal representative at NFL headquarters in NY City allowed Roger to believe that "more probable than not" was an acceptable alternative to proof beyond a reasonable doubt? 

 

Would any judge not named Berman find "more probable than not" legal binding had Goodell not been excessive in the penalties he dished out to players? Just asking. Please remember I am no lawyer nor do I have any legal training. If this is a dumb question so be it...

 

Will the other owners compel Goodell to throw away & discard that unfounded standard now? 

[BloodyChamp]

Patriot fans want to play class police now...

[dw49]

Sadly, that doesn't apply to most here. Many make claims here without even reading Berman's 40 page document.

 

 

Can't begin to imagine why you are here. You don't really discuss anything with the other Pat fans in the forum . You rarely have a civil conversation with anyone. Would you mind letting me know what draws you to this board ? 

 

Oh... and you were nicely asked by Nadine to stop generalizing about what Colt posters do and don't do. You had to know that the post was written for you. She's a nice lady that spends time trying to make this a civil place to be. Please respect her wishes.

[ColtsFan1976]

If Brady and the Patriots did nothing wrong (according to them and Bill Simmons), then why don't the two Patriots employees who were fired sue the NFL and Patriots for wrongful termination?  I am sure Brady would be more than happy to testify at their hearing about those Deflator text messages and their real meaning.

[Flying Elvis]

Yeah the NFL just wanted to bring Brady down.  

Yeah Brady informs the NFL refs about inflation rules and then conspires to deflate them.

[BloodyChamp]

If Brady and the Patriots did nothing wrong (according to them and Bill Simmons), then why don't the two Patriots employees who were fired sue the NFL and Patriots for wrongful termination? I am sure Brady would be more than happy to testify at their hearing about those Deflator text messages and their real meaning.

I know your TRUTHBOMB isn't the time or place but it reminded me of something funny. Where has Eric Mangini been this whole time? He's going into the Pat's ballboy HoF as the innagural inductee I'm sure.

[ColtsBlueFL]

If you believe otherwise, answer me this:

Why didn't the NFL just tell the Patriots to stop any shenanigans with the footballs, like they did with other teams?

Why conduct a sting operation ?

 

The NFL (Actually Walt Anderson and crew) blew it when they asked the security agent for the NFL to return the backup game balls (that were fetched at Anderson's order) to the officials locker room when McNally was found on the sidelines with the first batch of game balls.  McNally's batch of balls should have been taken to the officials locker room, quarantined and guarded until the game was over and the backup balls used instead.  That is exactly what should have happened.  Then measure the first batch of game balls after the game to see if any nefarious activity occurred.  And no Ideal Gas Law calcs would be needed.  Re-measure in the same place and environment they were measured the first time.

 

Now what did happen was NFL thought balls were OK because Anderson was told 2 different times to measure them proplerly before the game. They were also unaware of McNally stealing them out from the officials locker room and taking them unescorted.  They didn't know squat until some period just before halftime when Grigson told the NFL that they had an under inflated ball in possession, and they were unhappy about it because they had already emailed the NFL about that very subject before the game. So the NFL, with egg on it's face thinking they had handled it, was likely a little livid that possibly somebody, somehow went out of their way to circumvent their pregame football procedure and trying to upset the 'competitive balance'.  They still didn't know if it was one ball, or most, or all of them.  But it was clear that potentially the whole first half was played with illegal equipment when the Patriots were on offense, and they weren't too happy about that.  So at this point, you want them to say "I hear you might be playing shenanigans with game balls.  If you are, you better knock it off.  Because we'll be watching" .... {over off to the side McNally and Jatremski are desperately trying to hide their smirks...}  Yeah, that's not happening in this situation.  Too litlle, too late amigo.

 

I wish Walt Anderson would have done the right thing and declared McNall'ys bag of game balls quarantined under guard and used the backup set of Patriots game day footballs the NFL security agent had brought out to the field.  At least we will soon have a full year of pressure testing of game balls before, during, and after games in every conceivable condition at the conclusion of the season.  The NFL will likely tighten up their football rules at the end of the season based upon the data.

[Vance]

Woo boy, it's getting serious now, we're breaking out the Latin phrases.

[ColtRider]

If Brady and the Patriots did nothing wrong (according to them and Bill Simmons), then why don't the two Patriots employees who were fired sue the NFL and Patriots for wrongful termination?  I am sure Brady would be more than happy to testify at their hearing about those Deflator text messages and their real meaning.

The real meaning of those texts were about "weight loss" and having to go "p" without a urinal. Remember?

I've got a bridge for sale. Anyone interested?

[Flying Elvis]

They might not have understood the full IGL, but everyone knows inflated objects feel less full in the cold.  They felt the pressures were too low to not have tampering, and IGL tests prove that is very likely true.  I ran the numbers here-

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/38957-the-cbf-report-udated-now-also-using-wells-report-data/

 

and the results state 8 out of the 11 Patriot balls tested failed the IGL suggesting other outside influences (ball boys in a bathroom?) while only 1 out of 8 Colts balls failed the IGL test.  I read the exponent tests and ran a few calcs of my own because I wanted to verify via my own calculation method and not take Exponents work as gospel. Judge Berman accepted the facts as Goodell found them (footballs were deflated being one) in his ruling, and even tells Kessler somebody deflated the footballs, why would JJ or McNally do that without Brady's permission?

 

So you can get off the NFL/ESPN made this story up to maim the Patriots and Tom Brady because they're just too good for the league and need to be brought to their knees in any way conceivable.  Sheesh.  If the NFL wasn't so power drunk incompetent, I think they handle the appeal better and Brady watches the games on RedZone and DirecTV until the Colts game. But the NFL messed up and showed their biased hand too.  This was bad for the league in whole because two wrongs don't make a right, (but 3 rights make a left...  )

 

Brady and the Patriots were not found innocent, the NFL was found biased and incompetent to handle grievance appeals.  Period.

Ugh. i know a few things about numbers myself and when there are incomplete numbers (starting psi) and many variables (rain, Colts balls in a trash bag Patriots balls were not, length of time balls were in warm room before being measured) there can be no definitive conclusions made. They don't even know for sure which gauges were used.

 

You're telling me Tom ordered his minions to let out .5 psi of air for what purpose? That is negligible! Besides that, there is no proof that a deflated ball even creates an advantage!

 

So it comes down to the Patriots are lying or the NFL is conducting a witch hunt. Neither is pretty. Believe what you want.

[ColtsBlueFL]

 

Here's my question: If I accept the premise that Roger Goodell overstepped his authority meaning the duration of Tom's suspension & making unfounded comparisons that a PED violation gave the Commissioner the right to impose a 4 game suspension was completely wrong & I now do, what legal representative at NFL headquarters in NY City allowed Roger to believe that "more probable than not" was an acceptable alternative to proof beyond a reasonable doubt? 

 

Would any judge not named Berman find "more probable than not" legal binding had Goodell not been excessive in the penalties he dished out to players? Just asking. Please remember I am no lawyer nor do I have any legal training. If this is a dumb question so be it...

 

Will the other owners compel Goodell to throw away & discard that unfounded standard now? 

 

 

I don't think so SW1.  The 'more likely than not' is a very real and used system, all civil court case in the U.S.  But most have heard it in the Judge Wapner verson- "Preponderance of the Evidence".  Judge Berman didn't have a problem with Goodell reaching a more likely than not conclusion. His issue came to fairness in the appeal process. He felt undue bias was present for many reasons.   As far as the Wells report, the conclusion was "it was more likely than not Brady was aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski in releasing air from the game balls".

 

But Goodell's conclusion after the appeal was somewhat different-

 

1. Mr. Brady participated in a scheme to tamper with game balls after they had been approved by the game officials for use in the AFC Championship game

2. Mr. Brady willfully obstructed the investigation by, among other things, affirmatively arranging for destruction of his cellphone knowing that it contained potentially relevant information that had been requested by investigators.

 

If he would have stayed with the Wells report conclusion, and conducted the appeal hearing without bias or withholding discovery items and allowing cross exam of Mr. Pash, etc... there was a good chance the award would have been confirmed.  Since these things didn't happen, Judge Berman had reason to delve into many things that helped him to arrive at his ruling to vacate the award. 

 

(A) inadequate notice to Brady of both his potential discipline (four-game suspension) and his alleged misconduct; (B) denial of the opportunity for Brady to examine one of two lead investigators, namely NFL Executive Vice President and General Counsel Jeff Pash; and © denial of equal access to investigative files, including witness interview notes.

 

Not pronounce Brady innocent, That did not happen, nor was the 'more likely than not' standard the issue.  I think it stays around, but if a neutral party hears the appeals, maybe reduced, but appropriate punishments will be enacted for infractions, not get out of jail free cards issued by the District Courts.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Ugh. i know a few things about numbers myself and when there are incomplete numbers (starting psi) and many variables (rain, Colts balls in a trash bag Patriots balls were not, length of time balls were in warm room before being measured) there can be no definitive conclusions made. They don't even know for sure which gauges were used.

 

You're telling me Tom ordered his minions to let out .5 psi of air for what purpose? That is negligible! Besides that, there is no proof that a deflated ball even creates an advantage!

 

So it comes down to the Patriots are lying or the NFL is conducting a witch hunt. Neither is pretty. Believe what you want.

Typical Pats fan.  Everybody lies except them and the Pats. (Walt Anderson etc...)  stopped reading the old hot air after that...

 

We will have all the data necessary on footballs later this year.

[crazycolt1]

Yeah Brady informs the NFL refs about inflation rules and then conspires to deflate them.

You seem to be overlooking Brady's suspension was voided because of a procedural error, not that he was innocent. But that's OK because it wouldn't matter to you either way.

[ViriLudant]

If Brady and the Patriots did nothing wrong (according to them and Bill Simmons), then why don't the two Patriots employees who were fired sue the NFL and Patriots for wrongful termination? I am sure Brady would be more than happy to testify at their hearing about those Deflator text messages and their real meaning.

For the last time. The NFL told the Patriots to suspend them.