Manning and Luck [Mega-merge]

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

If colts draft luck they will NOT trade him.

I've seen cousins play I love cousins. I want colts to take him if we can't get luck but why do u think he's bettter then luck? Just curious.

I've watched him for years!I think cousins is a special type player with alot of upside!He hasn't peaked at all and only gets better.He performs at his best in big games,unlike luck.And he's a true wildcard in this draft class,because he plays for a run happy MSU team.

[oldunclemark]

So I have been really contemplating the issue of do I want the Colts to win or lose Sunday? Especially since I am of the side that wants the Colts to have Manning going forward, with a better roster around him and win Super Bowls now, while still improving the team for the QB to take over post Manning! That would lead most to think I want the Colts to win, but I still want the Colts to lose and get the #1 pick, because trading the #1 pick brings more value to the Colts then getting the #2 pick, and deciding what to do with it. Now having said that, like most I assume Manning will be back healthy next year. Most who want Luck want the two quarterbacks to co-exist. Even with the parameters of rookie wage scale, it does not make sense to take Luck and have the two on the same roster. There is however a very big issue most are not considering when the idea of a trade down comes up.

If Manning is healthy and the Colts have the #1 pick, chances are the Colts will not be picking at the top of any round, until Manning’s time is done! Having said that, by trading down, not only does it improve the team short term, and develop players to help long term, but it gives the Colts DRAFT PICKS at the top of the first round for the following two drafts! Chances are the Colts can get 3 #1’s and 2 #2’s for the pick. That makes the Colts players for any prospect they really want in the next three drafts! There is ammunition to trade up for a player next year and most likely the following draft! The Colts would have two first round picks next year and the year after, one of those being at the beginning of the round the other hopefully at the very end! Nobody is considering how the draft picks for the future are crucial for this team both short and long term! Much better than using the pick on a guy to sit on the bench four years, when Manning returns! Yes I know, he is the can’t miss prospect, the next Peyton Manning.. Do we really think the next Peyton Manning is going to come while Peyton Manning is still playing? Every year they call a player at the top of the draft a can’t miss player. They said Cam Newton was a major risk, that he wasn’t NFL ready, what does that show us? Scouts and Experts are wrong.. and that happens very often! Imagine trading the pick with a team like Cleveland who wants to trade up, the Colts would have two first round picks and an extra second this year, the same with next year, and maybe a first round the following year! Cleveland will probably still be bottom feeders even with Luck, look at the division they are in. What does that mean? It means another top 10 selection in the first and second round next year at the very worse! The Colts could even trade it to a team like Miami or Buffalo, who are unhappy with their QB situation, have a top 10 pick this year, and would face the Jets and Patriots two times a year! Again that means a top 10 pick in the first and second next year and possibly beyond! It also means someone to make life a little more difficult for Tom Brady in the division!

The Colts will be in the driver seat of their own destiny on Sunday, despite wanting the Luck pick traded I still want the Colts to end up with the #1 pick! But we all need to just relax and let the pieces fall where they are going to! I just hope Indy wises up and realizes that trading the pick doesn’t just improve the team in the short term filling holes, but it gives more top tier draft picks to address the team in the future!

BC...

I dont think we can get 5 picks for the No.12 overall choice..

I dont think there is a player in the NFL who could draw 3 No.1 picks in a trade..

More Likely we can get 2 for out 1 ..and Cleveland is the likely partner..

But we need to find out if Andrew Luck is willing to sit on the bench in Indianapolis...and that talk starts next Monday

[BmoreColt]

It's crazy nobody is considering how having three years worth of two first and second round picks at a minimum, is a ridiculous bounty! Something that will rebuild the team! That was my main point from this post! Do you want a great Luck, or 3-6 (minimum) good players from his bounty?

[Balzer40]

You've really done your homework,so kudos to you!I think cousins upside is much better than luck.Andrew has already peaked.

And you wonder why I make snide remarks to you. How is it even possible for a QB to have "peaked" when that QB hasn't played a single down in the NFL? You are simply repeating remarks others have made instead of coming up with a reasonable and coherant argument.

[BmoreColt]

BC...

I dont think we can get 5 picks for the No.12 overall choice..

I dont think there is a player in the NFL who could draw 3 No.1 picks in a trade..

More Likely we can get 2 for out 1 ..and Cleveland is the likely partner..

But we need to find out if Andrew Luck is willing to sit on the bench in Indianapolis...and that talk starts next Monday

Huh? The value is estimated at 3 #1's and 2 #2's.. there was an article stating it could be as high as 6 first round picks! Why do you think we would only get their two first round picks? Nothing in the second round and nothing in the first or second next year....??

[oldunclemark]

Manning over Luck but its going to be both if we pick #1.

Joker.....If Luck is willing to learn under Manning (maybe even with an 'out' in his contract after 2 years)

Then you're right....its both..

But with all the vets we have....and our receivers relationship with Manning...it has to be Peyton...

That's a no-brainer

[Case]

You've really done your homework,so kudos to you!I think cousins upside is much better than luck.Andrew has already peaked.

Luck has not peaked at all. He will only get better and better once he gets in the nfl. Not sure why u think that.

[Jaric]

6 first rounders?

Come on, I thought 3-4 was madness. No one is going to trade 6 first round picks for one guy. Not even Peyton Manning in his prime playing for league minimum is worth that much.

[braveheartcolt]

There is also the chance that Luck turns out to be the superstar many of the experts predict, and Peyton actually retires next year due to injury. It swings both ways guys.

[BmoreColt]

See everyone wants Manning, nobody outright wants just Luck, except maybe Ssarow up there... And those who want Luck want the combination, it would hurt the team to have both of them, for the cap hit, the lack of important draft picks used to address this team! I just hope Polian is more intelligent then I give him credit for and is blowing his famous smoke screen saying picks and players won't help the Colts!

[Jaric]

There's no need to get into the whole they can "coexist" debate,because they can't.

Well I'm glad that's settled...

:rolleyes:

[Nadine]

Manning

[BmoreColt]

There is also the chance that Luck turns out to be the superstar many of the experts predict, and Peyton actually retires next year due to injury. It swings both ways guys.

You are right! But if Manning doesn't retire, and all indications thus far is that he is going to play.. passing on the guy who may be the next super star may not be terrible if we get that bounty for him! If that one player (Luck) is a Bust and even half of the picks he brings are busts, which would be a large number since it would bring possible 4 top 40 talents this year and 4 top 60 talents the next two years! That means this team will have a large amount of talent, even if half are busts! But if Luck does succeed it will be the same thing Peyton has had, since it will delay the rebuilding process!

[oldunclemark]

See everyone wants Manning, nobody outright wants just Luck, except maybe Ssarow up there... And those who want Luck want the combination, it would hurt the team to have both of them, for the cap hit, the lack of important draft picks used to address this team! I just hope Polian is more intelligent then I give him credit for and is blowing his famous smoke screen saying picks and players won't help the Colts!

BC is this possible

WE sign Luck but only to a two-year deal....after which HE can go free agent.

We can resign him if Manning has not return to form....OR trade him after one year if Manning is Back.

That way we still get the draft choices and are protected for next year??

What do you think?

..

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

Once a post is set you cannot go back and add a poll to it. You would have to start a new topic to do that. Sry.

But the thread is ok. Who do you want? Simple.

Thanks!I didn't know that~.

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

Well I'm glad that's settled...

:rolleyes:

Don't mention it!lol!

[Nadine]

you can start another with a poll and I think we can merge them

[JoKeR]

It will be a huge mess.There's no way luck signs,and if stubborn bill refuses to trade him,then what?That would crush our franchise,especially if we could've landed a boatload of picks.Everybody just assumes that luck must accept being drafted by us.He doesn't.There's alot he could do.

I understand you have concerns but the F.O. has basically laid this controversy to rest. It only depends on Mannings health at this point and Polian is gonna take if he's available. There has been no indication that Luck doesn't want to sit behind Manning, in fact he curiously filed for the draft early. He could always demand a trade on draft day which Polian would oblige because he wouldn't want someone that doesn't want to be a Colt.

[DILLIGAFER]

Peyton "the sheriff" Manning

[BmoreColt]

6 first rounders?

Come on, I thought 3-4 was madness. No one is going to trade 6 first round picks for one guy. Not even Peyton Manning in his prime playing for league minimum is worth that much.

I just posted the article I didn't write it! ... 3 #1's and 2 #2's is the minimum preceived value for Luck!

[Nadine]

I just asked my daughter this question

Answer: "Are you kidding me? I don't understand how this is a question!"

in other words, MANNING

[BmoreColt]

BC is this possible

WE sign Luck but only to a two-year deal....after which HE can go free agent.

We can resign him if Manning has not return to form....OR trade him after one year if Manning is Back.

That way we still get the draft choices and are protected for next year??

What do you think?

..

Unfortunately No.. the draft pick is worth more at the time of the draft than after a season! In fact after training camps the value of a draft pick diminishes from what it was. To get the most value from the Luck pick, the pick would have to be traded on draft day....

[MyBeautifulChineseDoll]

And you wonder why I make snide remarks to you. How is it even possible for a QB to have "peaked" when that QB hasn't played a single down in the NFL? You are simply repeating remarks others have made instead of coming up with a reasonable and coherant argument.

Yes,he's peaked.I've seen no real progress in the last three years with him.But he's very good,but not peyton manning good.

[Jaric]

I just posted the article I didn't write it! ... 3 #1's and 2 #2's is the minimum preceived value for Luck!

Yeah, that wasn't directed at you. Wasn't tring to shoot the messenger.

Still though. That's lunacy to think someone is going to trade that much for one guy.

[That Guy]

And you wonder why I make snide remarks to you. How is it even possible for a QB to have "peaked" when that QB hasn't played a single down in the NFL? You are simply repeating remarks others have made instead of coming up with a reasonable and coherant argument.

Colt Brennan peaked before the NFL. I doubt Luck has, but it is possible. It is also possible to post in the forums without attacking others.

6 first rounders?

Come on, I thought 3-4 was madness. No one is going to trade 6 first round picks for one guy. Not even Peyton Manning in his prime playing for league minimum is worth that much.

BmoreColt actually posted a link to the article in another thread! The article goes on to say it doesn't believe anyone is worth six first rounders, though...

[oldunclemark]

Huh? The value is estimated at 3 #1's and 2 #2's.. there was an article stating it could be as high as 6 first round picks! Why do you think we would only get their two first round picks? Nothing in the second round and nothing in the first or second next year....??

I just think that's handcuffing the future of the guy you're about to draft..

But BC....you tell me..

Is there any player in the NFL that YOU would give up 3 first round picks and two 2nd-round picks for??

Drew Brees? Cam? Revis.

I wouldnt give up 5 picks for any of them.

[BmoreColt]

Colt Brennan peaked before the NFL. I doubt Luck has, but it is possible. It is also possible to post in the forums without attacking others.

BmoreColt actually posted a link to the article in another thread! The article goes on to say it doesn't believe anyone is worth six first rounders, though...

I posted that article in this very thread! I think it said that nobody in the NFL is worth not trading for 6 first round picks, whether that player is Manning or Luck, for that kind of a bounty, you have to make the trade!

[Jaric]

I just think that's handcuffing the future of the guy you're about to draft..

But BC....you tell me..

Is there any player in the NFL that YOU would give up 3 first round picks and two 2nd-round picks for??

Drew Brees? Cam? Revis.

I wouldnt give up 5 picks for any of them.

I wouldn't give up one first round pick for Carson Palmer let alone two. Yet here we are.

All it takes is one team thinking they are a QB away from glory.

[oldunclemark]

There is also the chance that Luck turns out to be the superstar many of the experts predict, and Peyton actually retires next year due to injury. It swings both ways guys.

BHC..then sign Luck to a two year deal after which he is a free agent.

Of Manning cant return....sign him to a 5-year extension with Manning's money..

If Peyton is fine in 2012..trade Luck after one year for top choices...

[Jaric]

I posted that article in this very thread! I think it said that nobody in the NFL is worth not trading for 6 first round picks, whether that player is Manning or Luck, for that kind of a bounty, you have to make the trade!

Yeah, I'd trade Vince Lombardi for 6 first round picks.

[That Guy]

I posted that article in this very thread! I think it said that nobody in the NFL is worth not trading for 6 first round picks, whether that player is Manning or Luck, for that kind of a bounty, you have to make the trade!

I would trade Luck and half our defense for six first rounders...

[BmoreColt]

I just think that's handcuffing the future of the guy you're about to draft..

But BC....you tell me..

Is there any player in the NFL that YOU would give up 3 first round picks and two 2nd-round picks for??

Drew Brees? Cam? Revis.

I wouldnt give up 5 picks for any of them.

The problem is that it's a youth thing and a how someone is perceived issue. Luck is the next best thing since blah blah blah.. and that fact he is coming out of college and young makes him that valueable potentially to an organization.. even if we find it crazy! I get where your coming from, and as a GM no, the only current NFL player worth that much is Rodgers.. because he plays QB, because he is young, and because he is talented and proven!

[Jaric]

BHC..then sign Luck to a two year deal after which he is a free agent.

Of Manning cant return....sign him to a 5-year extension with Manning's money..

If Peyton is fine in 2012..trade Luck after one year for top choices...

Why would we draft the QBOTF only to let him walk in two years?

[Balzer40]

Yes,he's peaked.I've seen no real progress in the last three years with him.But he's very good,but not peyton manning good.

Thats ridiculous. It is not possible for a guy to have peaked before he's played a down in the NFL. Just not possible, and considering you think Curt Cousins is a better prospect just makes me not take you seriously.

Colt Brennan peaked before the NFL. I doubt Luck has, but it is possible. It is also possible to post in the forums without attacking others.

Sorry but thats just wrong in every possible aspect. Brennen never had the skills to play in the NFL, it had absolutely nothing to do with peaking.

Im not attacking anybody, but ridiculous statements will bring out the worst in people.

[BmoreColt]

Yeah, I'd trade Vince Lombardi for 6 first round picks.

Trading Luck will lead to six picks, maybe three of them first and three of them second round picks... however that can lead to your Lombardis'!

[oldunclemark]

I wouldn't give up one first round pick for Carson Palmer let alone two. Yet here we are.

All it takes is one team thinking they are a QB away from glory.

But if they're one QB away from glory..giving up 5 picks handcuffs that glory-bound QB, right?

Is there any player in the NFL right now that any of you would give up 5 choices (three 1s ansd two 2s) for?/

Has it ever been done?

[BmoreColt]

I would trade Luck and half our defense for six first rounders...

LOL!

[Jaric]

If Manning is 100%, he starts and Luck sits. If not, Luck starts and Manning probably retires.

[Jaric]

But if they're one QB away from glory..giving up 5 picks handcuffs that glory-bound QB, right?

Is there any player in the NFL right now that any of you would give up 5 choices (three 1s ansd two 2s) for?/

Has it ever been done?

I didn't say it was a good idea...

Also as to precedent, google "Herschel Walker trade."

[CR91]

I seem to agree with you alot.Yes,you're right.We cannot have both and our fanbase is dead wrong in thinking this.There's no way luck sits even one year and no way peyton splits snaps with this guy in practice.Ain't gonna happen.

why? you guys have no proof as to why they cant co-exist and luck even said he wouldnt mind going to a team with an already established qb. everyone needs to get off the idea that peyton is immortal and is gonna be our qb forever