Differences between the Colts and the Pats at the LB position

[Warhorse]

There have been noted similarities between the two teams, great QB play, consistent organizations and long time coaches, great kicking game, etc.

 

But as I see it, the one thing that has been glaringly different about the two clubs as far as players is the LB's. Up until the new regime took over...we always seemed to draft for speed....not size. I have watched the Rams, Ravens, Steelers, and Pats consistently go after big fast LB's who can stop the run and drop into coverage....and that is the one area we have not excelled at.

 

I see us moving in that direction, but I wonder if that is what we will ultimately achieve. What are your thoughts on this. I know that the D line effects everything behind them, but how many LB's have we lost or traded that have went on to play well on other teams?

 

Remember when we had Duane Bickett, Jeff Herrod, and Chip Banks?

 

We had one that compares in Bertrand Berry and we let him go! Mike Petersen and Marcus Washington?

 

Your thoughts?

[ruksak]

Our LB's know how much air pressure should be in a regulation football. 

[a06cc]

Getting off of blocks and covering tight ends in the middle of the field are the defense's only problems.

[oldunclemark]

....To me, Edge rushers and secondary decide games defensively.......I'd draft for speed, too.

...if required to make a choice between speed and size..at LB. Ill take speed every time.

Colts play indoors and in a warm weather division... Lets go 6-0 in the division and then worry about other teams

[Mouthfire]

It's kind of meaningless to make a generalizing statement about the Colts LBs over time, since we ran different systems over time. 

 

At least over the Dungy years, they emphasized small, fast LB'ers because those are the type of players needed for the Tampa 2.  The larger types of LBers that the Ravens, Steelers, and Pats went after would be hopelessly lost in a Tampa 2, because they're not fast and agile enough... Not to mention that they all ran 3-4 defenses, which need larger bodied LB'ers in general.

[SteelCityColt]

It's kind of meaningless to make a generalizing statement about the Colts LBs over time, since we ran different systems over time. 

 

At least over the Dungy years, they emphasized small, fast LB'ers because those are the type of players needed for the Tampa 2.  The larger types of LBers that the Ravens, Steelers, and Pats went after would be hopelessly lost in a Tampa 2, because they're not fast and agile enough... Not to mention that they all ran 3-4 defenses, which need larger bodied LB'ers in general.

 

This,,, 

 

Going back to the direct comparison with the Pats, aside from we've only run our D system for 3 seasons now look at how much they've invested in the draft in their starting LBers (based off their website depth chart) :

 

Jamie Collins (2nd Rounder) 

Dont'a Hightower (1st Rounder)

Jerod Mayo (1st Rounder) 

 

Throw in the rest of the front 7 

Chandler Jones (1st Rounder)

Rob Ninkovich (5th Rounder)

Vince Wilford (as was) (1st Rounder) 

Chris Jones (6th Rounder)

 

 

That's some serious investment right there in your front 7....

 

Compare it with ours last season

 

Werner (1st Rounder)

Jackson (2nd Rounder - Not Drafted by Colts)

Freeman (UDFA)

Newsome/Walden (5th Rounder/6th Rounder - Not Drafted by Colts)

 

Redding (3rd Rounder - Not Drafted by Colts)

Josh Chapmen/Montori Hughes (Both 5 Rounders)

Jones (5th Rounder - Not Drafted by the Colts)

 

We just haven't invested nearly as much in our front 7, even the players we've brought in haven't been high picks previously. 

[conklincolt]

long time coaches?  I think we have 3 different ones in the last 10 years or less.

[Ryan Pelley]

Drafting highly talented players early and molding / progressing them with the best coaching staff in recent memory? Collins and Hightower are two of the best all around linebackers in the league. I'd be giddy if the Colts could draft and develop at least one guy like that.

[Chucklez]

...if required to make a choice between speed and size..at LB. Ill take speed every time.

 

 

The problem with that is exactly what the Pats have done to us the last 4 meetings, we would get bulldozed in the running game.....

If you don't think that is a problem I refer you to the Pats rushing yardage and scores against us the last 4 meetings:

 

January 18, 2015

 

Colts 7

Patriots 45

 

[lollygagger8]

While I don't really think there's a reason to compare LB's between us and the NE Cheaters, I do think we need some help at the LB position. We've never really had that stud LB that has been good at stopping the run and dropping in coverage. 

[ProblChld32]

Simple the difference is Versatility. Their LBer core is very Versatile. they are able to cover effectively , stuff the run and pressure the QB. 

[Gavin]

The problem with that is exactly what the Pats have done to us the last 4 meetings, we would get bulldozed in the running game.....

If you don't think that is a problem I refer you to the Pats rushing yardage and scores against us the last 4 meetings:

 

January 18, 2015

 

Colts 7

Patriots 45

 

That hasn't been because of our linebackers being undersized, Its mostly been because of D Linemen abandoning there run fits and over-pursuit of the ball carrier THEN followed by missed tackles by linebackers

[Chucklez]

That hasn't been because of our linebackers being undersized, Its mostly been because of D Linemen abandoning there run fits and over-pursuit of the ball carrier THEN followed by missed tackles by linebackers

 

 

No idea why it only posted the first scores... the rest are at the bottom of this post...

Also, it is very much attributable to our LB's being undersized throughout the years. Sure our DL trenches havent been exactly great, but the Patriots not only made it to our second level, but consitently bullied and brushed off our LBs as well. If we had the LB's to stop them there, those rushing numbers couldve been almost halved....

 

 

January 18, 2015

 

Colts 7

Patriots 45            177 rushing yards

 

November 16, 2014

 

Colts 20

Patriots 42            246 rushing yards

 

January 11, 2014

 

Colts 22

Patriots 43            234 rushing yards

 

 

November 18 2012

 

Colts 24

Patriots 59            115 rushing yards

[needanoline63]

Donta Hightower, jerod mayo, and Jason Collins make are backers look like little girls

[husker61]

Getting off of blocks and covering tight ends in the middle of the field are the defense's only problems.

 

 

 is that all? lol!

[Warhorse]

First of all...my point was not to complain. It was for discussion. As pointed out...that is exactly what I meant. We have chosen not to invest at the same level through the draft at the LB position. (thanks for posting that SCC).

 

Good or bad...its an observation. We did take Werner....and that was a surprise. I think this is the season that his actions speed up. His experience level in years is just beginning to approach that of players in college...let alone the NFL.

[husker61]

i have been saying for a long time the colts need to use higher picks on lb's going back to pat angerer, who i never liked. and when they gave the big contract to bracket (didn't like the contract). those weren't popular opinions here at the time. i dont know what they were thinking with werner, he's a tweener and doesn't really fit anywhere.

[husker61]

its not just the lb's. the entire defense of the pats has always had more talent and better coached than the colts.

[throwing BBZ]

There have been noted similarities between the two teams, great QB play, consistent organizations and long time coaches, great kicking game, etc.

 

But as I see it, the one thing that has been glaringly different about the two clubs as far as players is the LB's. Up until the new regime took over...we always seemed to draft for speed....not size. I have watched the Rams, Ravens, Steelers, and Pats consistently go after big fast LB's who can stop the run and drop into coverage....and that is the one area we have not excelled at.

 

I see us moving in that direction, but I wonder if that is what we will ultimately achieve. What are your thoughts on this. I know that the D line effects everything behind them, but how many LB's have we lost or traded that have went on to play well on other teams?

 

Remember when we had Duane Bickett, Jeff Herrod, and Chip Banks?

 

We had one that compares in Bertrand Berry and we let him go! Mike Petersen and Marcus Washington?

 

Your thoughts?

 

 Spot on.

 We are weak inside and were weak outside last season.

 Adding a pass rusher and getting Walden to the bench is a positive.

[HoggHannah]

Well, when you favor speed over size, you also eliminate versatility. Essentially what you are doing is replacing three linebackers with 3 additional oversized safetys.  I am not saying this is a terrible way to go, especially in today's NFL, the almost all passing NFL.  You can probably beat 90% of the other teams out there who do not have a capable running attack to be able to exploit this.  As to the other 10%, it should be no surprise that the team has trouble stopping the run against these type of teams.  Just put in 6 or 7 blockers and push forward, the safety sized linebackers are giving up 50 to 75 lbs to an oversized OL.  New England used Flemming, who is 325 lbs, and matches up against whatever OLB is on his side.   

 

Everyone here talks a lot about New England's running, but the top teams in the other league have scary running attacks too.  Seattle?  Heck even Green Bay can run it if they want to.   If the Colts got by NE, they still face teams with an even scarier running attack.