Big ben gets new deal

[ruksak]

Ken stop talking about me like that!

You did what you did because you wanted too. No excuses. Your shameful debauchery in that Burger King bathroom was your decision. That is NOT what I meant when I said I wanted a whopper. 

[amfootball]

OK, amfootball.... I call you on your Bull spit.  Yes, they were 6-10 in an injury riddled season before Roethlisberger took over when Maddox got hurt (like Brady over Bledsoe).  But.. BIG BUT... the 3 years prior to that 6-10 season, the Steelers were 9-7, then 13-3 and lost in AFCCG to Patriots.  Then went 10-5  -1 tie. Lost in playoff division round to Titans.

 

You're making it seem the Steelrs were a crap team Big Ben brought from the flames like a Phoenix.  Wrongo!  Ben got a great team, playoff caliber, and a great coach in Cowher who knew how to handle a Rook QB with potential.  Bruce Arians let Luck loose in rookie season from the get go! (Arians was Bens OC too) It's Pep that reeled Luck back in, then realized that was the wrong thing to do, and it still searching out the balance.  Ben had a better team, Luck played better QB.  Period, end.

 

I  might give Big Ben the slight nod over Andrew right now.  But I think that will be moot soon.  And Luck was much better in 1st three seasons than Ben. And Luck had to be, Ben did not.

Good points ColtsBlue. I think in the NFL we understand that rosters can go from good to bad in one season or bad to good in one season. My point with Ben was that his Steelers team was not great when he took over. And if you want to cite previous seasons than I think we also have to do the same with Luck who technically inherited a 2-14 team that we know was not that bad save for the QB play as the previous seasons the Colts were 10-6 in the playoffs and 14-2 in the Super Bowl. And I think Luck has benefited just as much as Ben in terms of being part of solid organization that knows how to build a contending team.

[Superman]

Good points ColtsBlue. I think in the NFL we understand that rosters can go from good to bad in one season or bad to good in one season. My point with Ben was that his Steelers team was not great when he took over. And if you want to cite previous seasons than I think we also have to do the same with Luck who technically inherited a 2-14 team that we know was not that bad save for the QB play as the previous seasons the Colts were 10-6 in the playoffs and 14-2 in the Super Bowl. And I think Luck has benefited just as much as Ben in terms of being part of solid organization that knows how to build a contending team.

 

And the entire staff -- coaching and front office, with only a handful of exceptions. The Colts principals were rookies, while the Steelers had a GM in his 5th year and a coach in his 13th year with 15 playoff games under his belt.

 

And an overhauled roster, with 70% new starters, many of them rookies or second year players, especially on offense. 

 

Luck accounted for 79.8% of the Colts yardage gained in 2012. Roethlisberger accounted for 53.3% of the Steelers yardage in 2004.

 

Ben had a much easier time his first couple of years than Luck has. His team was better, the staff was more experienced, and he was asked to do far less on the field. 

[amfootball]

And the entire staff -- coaching and front office, with only a handful of exceptions. The Colts principals were rookies, while the Steelers had a GM in his 5th year and a coach in his 13th year with 15 playoff games under his belt.

 

And an overhauled roster, with 70% new starters, many of them rookies or second year players, especially on offense. 

 

Luck accounted for 79.8% of the Colts yardage gained in 2012. Roethlisberger accounted for 53.3% of the Steelers yardage in 2004.

 

Ben had a much easier time his first couple of years than Luck has. His team was better, the staff was more experienced, and he was asked to do far less on the field. 

I think we can probably sum it up that Ben achieved more with more. It would be one thing if he just won 10 games his first season and had a first round exit but he went undefeated until the AFCCG his rookie year and then was a big reason why the Steelers made the SB in 2005 with his post-season run even though his actual performance in the SB was not good.

 

I think Ben was the better Qb then and now but that is not to say that Luck won't catch him or even surpass him in the coming seasons ...

[Superman]

I think we can probably sum it up that Ben achieved more with more. It would be one thing if he just won 10 games his first season and had a first round exit but he went undefeated until the AFCCG his rookie year and then was a big reason why the Steelers made the SB in 2005 with his post-season run even though his actual performance in the SB was not good.

 

I think Ben was the better Qb then and now but that is not to say that Luck won't catch him or even surpass him in the coming seasons ...

 

The Steelers achieved more. Ben did his job, but he didn't go undefeated; the Steelers went undefeated. 

[Surge89]

He's finally playing in a real offense instead of Arians' "chuck it deep" philosophy.

 

This point is so vastly overlooked it is comical.  I like Arians (the head coach),  not Arians kill your QB play caller.

[Surge89]

A good question would be; What kind of woman voluntarily goes into a men's bathroom stall with a famous athlete she just met? 

 

Yep....a ho does that. 

 

Agreed

[BOTT]

I think we can probably sum it up that Ben achieved more with more. It would be one thing if he just won 10 games his first season and had a first round exit but he went undefeated until the AFCCG his rookie year and then was a big reason why the Steelers made the SB in 2005 with his post-season run even though his actual performance in the SB was not good.

 

I think Ben was the better Qb then and now but that is not to say that Luck won't catch him or even surpass him in the coming seasons ...

There is no way in hell that Ben was a better QB than Luck early in his career.

[Gramz]

Good for Ben.

I think he went through a few rough years with off field issues, etc... but it appears he's gotten his personal life in a good spot.....finished his college courses, got his degree, is now married and started a family, and I think he's also in a better place on the field. I think he could possibly be at his best the next few years. JMO.

[Malakai432]

You did what you did because you wanted too. No excuses. Your shameful debauchery in that Burger King bathroom was your decision. That is NOT what I meant when I said I wanted a whopper. 

 

Yeah and you got a whopper jr instead,

[ruksak]

Yeah and you got a whopper jr instead,

lol? 

 

Looked like a baby's arm holding an apple to me. Quite impressed. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

This point is so vastly overlooked it is comical.  I like Arians (the head coach),  not Arians kill your QB play caller.

 

Question.... where has Bruce Arians been a head coach where he didn't also call the offense plays?

[Malakai432]

lol?

Looked like a baby's arm holding an apple to me. Quite impressed.

Hahaha!!! Ohh I guess I just lack confidence....

[BOTT]

Question.... where has Bruce Arians been a head coach where he didn't also call the offense plays?

What's that have to do anything? You can be a good head coach and a poor play caller at the same time. His offensive philosophy is dated and leaves a trail of injured QB's.

[ColtsBlueFL]

What's that have to do anything? You can be a good head coach and a poor play caller at the same time. His offensive philosophy is dated and leaves a trail of injured QB's.

 

I do not agree with this at all.  If you are HC and also call the plays, poorly as you state, then you are not a good HC.

[BOTT]

I do not agree with this at all.  If you are HC and also call the plays, poorly as you state, then you are not a good HC.

Play calling would be a very small part of what a head coach does. It's not really so much his play calling anyway....it's his offensive philosophy. Andy Reid would be an example of excellent coach, bad play caller.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Play calling would be a very small part of what a head coach does. It's not really so much his play calling anyway....it's his offensive philosophy. Andy Reid would be an example of excellent coach, bad play caller.

 

OK, we'll call it what it is. Offense is simplicity, timing, and spacing.  You prefer horizontal spacing philosophy, where Arians prefers the vertical spacing philosophy.  That is the disagreement with Arians, not play calling.

 

His relative success as a HC says his play calling within his philosophy is quite successful.  Not poor. And Andy Reid prefers horizontal spacing, but calls poor plays.  Correct?

[BOTT]

OK, we'll call it what it is. Offense is simplicity, timing, and spacing.  You prefer horizontal spacing philosophy, where Arians prefers the vertical spacing philosophy.  That is the disagreement with Arians, not play calling.

 

His relative success as a HC says his play calling within his philosophy is quite successful.  Not poor. And Andy Reid prefers horizontal spacing, but calls poor plays.  Correct?

No, I prefer I nice mix. Arians scoffs at using running backs as pass catchers and has a disdain for pass catching tight ends. Imo, his success has more to do with having talented quarterbacks on the roster than his offensive philosophy. It's actually hard to believe he is a Tom Moore disciple.

[ColtsBlueFL]

No, I prefer I nice mix. Arians scoffs at using running backs as pass catchers and has a disdain for pass catching tight ends. Imo, his success has more to do with having talented quarterbacks on the roster than his offensive philosophy. It's actually hard to believe he is a Tom Moore disciple.

Bruce is interesting in Offense philiosophy, being firm in his convictions and seeing how he had worked under M. Schottenheimer (Marty Ball), Bill Cowher (Erhardt-Perkins), Mike Tomlin and Tom Moore.

 

Truth be told, even Tom Moore and others like Norv Turner) are Air Coryell disciples, but these two (and maybe more) do/did not run the most robust version of it preferring to have medium plays made from PA fake, as well as limited playbook.  They prefer to limit the number of plays and maximize understanding and execution {at the risk of being called 'predictable'} of every play called.They altered the Air Coryell to match the QB, and his weapons/team around him.  West coast (horizontal O) does use backs and TE's.  Not to sure you'll see deep routes from them very much, though.

 

I think Pep is constantly adapting his playbook.  And I would not be surprised to see more vertical plays incorporated with the skill players Luck has to work with.

 

I'd like to see game plans and play calls from Pep's creativity this year rather than necessity.