Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[southwest1]

Maybe a secret santa can send Bill Belichick a CD to AZ with the following inspirational songs on it strictly for us against the world motivational purposes: [Only Teasing!] 

 

"Balls To The Wall" by Accept [A solid heavy metal favorite of mine actually.] 

 

"Ball Crusher" by W.A.S.P. [singer Blackie Lawless would have a field day with this whole ball related issue, but then again, being provocative is right in his wheel house. FX knows exactly what I mean.  ;) ]

 

"Stone Cold" by Rainbow since the Grey Hoodie has such stoic facial expressions & he appears to let controversy roll off him like water on a duck's back.

 

"Take A Look At Yourself" by David Coverdale & Jimmy Page.

 

"Foolish Games" by Jewel.

 

"I Hate Myself For Loving You" by Joan Jett.

 

"Dirty Deeds" by AC/DC.

 

"Paper & Fire" by John Mellencamp as in keep playing with fire & you get burned. 

 

"To Live Is To Hide" by Lacuna Coil. 

 

"Nothing Else Matters" by Metallica. 

 

"Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?" by the Shirelles. 

[Gavin]

Watching Sports Center tonight Jerome Bettis and Mark Brunnel brought up fantastic points with Trey Wingo. Wingo brought out 3 different sized footballs and made it a point NOT to tell Brunnell or Bettis which ball was regulation sized, One was bigger then the other 2, one was regulation sized and 1 was smaller, Brunnell threw each ball to Bettis and both former football players had to guess which ball was regulation sized and to see if they could tell the difference.

 

Both players were easily able to tell the difference but Brunnell made the point with the smaller ball it could be much easier to throw longer...I thought Bettis made another great point in the experiment...He said he was able to tuck the ball better and squeeze the ball a bit with his fingers and that it would be harder for defenders to be able to pry the ball loose do to the fact that the ball being significantly smaller. I still don't think it would have made any difference in the Colts getting blown out like they did because they simply just got outplayed, out executed. I think the Patriots won that game fair and square as to the play of the game and I still think that shrinking the balls like the Patriots apparently did should be done or looked into, Regulation sized footballs are pretty big like I have said before, especially for the littler guys.

[southwest1]

With all due respect SW I will have to go the other direction on this. With the lack of respect for the game of football I hope the Hawks kick the crap out of the Patriots. Not that I like either one of them anymore than the other but sorry, I cant pull for the Patriots under any scenario. The Patriots have tarnished the integrity and sportsmanship of football. Nothing personal, you know that.

That's fine CC1. I took no issue with what you said. We're cool my friend. 

 

I know it sounds petty & childish, but I just can't root for a team that denied #18 a 2nd SB ring. I know I give Manning a hard time a lot, but Peyton's a much better QB & I can't let last year's loss go. 

 

RW is about to have his wings clipped in about 10 days. Book it baby...

[crazycolt1]

That's fine CC1. I took no issue with what you said. We're cool my friend. 

 

I know it sounds petty & childish, but I just can't root for a team that denied #18 a 2nd SB ring. I know I give Manning a hard time a lot, but Peyton's a much better QB & I can't let last year's loss go. 

 

RW is about to have his wings clipped in about 10 days. Book it baby...

No problem my friend. It's just a shame that one of them will win.

[southwest1]

No problem my friend. It's just a shame that one of them will win.

Well, on the plus side since INDY keeps getting 1 step further in the playoffs every year, that means the SB next season right buddy? Alright; alright alright as actor Matthew McConaughey would say. 

[southwest1]

Watching Sports Center tonight Jerome Bettis and Mark Brunnel brought up fantastic points with Trey Wingo. Wingo brought out 3 different sized footballs and made it a point NOT to tell Brunnell or Bettis which ball was regulation sized, One was bigger then the other 2, one was regulation sized and 1 was smaller, Brunnell threw each ball to Bettis and both former football players had to guess which ball was regulation sized and to see if they could tell the difference.

 

Both players were easily able to tell the difference but Brunnell made the point with the smaller ball it could be much easier to throw longer...I thought Bettis made another great point in the experiment...He said he was able to tuck the ball better and squeeze the ball a bit with his fingers and that it would be harder for defenders to be able to pry the ball loose do to the fact that the ball being significantly smaller. I still don't think it would have made any difference in the Colts getting blown out like they did because they simply just got outplayed, out executed. I think the Patriots won that game fair and square as to the play of the game and I still think that shrinking the balls like the Patriots apparently did should be done or looked into, Regulation sized footballs are pretty big like I have said before, especially for the littler guys.

Ah man, it's all fun & games until someone pours an ice cold bucket of reality into the mix. Just Kidding Gavin! Nice post BTW. 

 

It is kind of funny to mention ball shrinkage in a debate topic & not get the thread locked down though. Yes, I know. I'm acting like a fool but it was a hilarious Seinfeld episode starring a pool & character George Costanza played by actor Jason Alexander. 

 

If the demonstration is on NFL Live, I have it taped on my DVR & give you my feedback on it after I watch the show. I promise. Thanks for the heads up. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

So NE didn't break the rules because they're the better team ? 

 

They DID break the rules, but it didn't matter this time. I (and I assume Allen) mean they have such edge that deflated balls did not increase it any further.

[Trace Pyott]

Man just think if the colts would have made that game super competitive. Like if we only lost by 7 or a fg...... The media and our organization would be going. 100x more berserk. Sadly we got blown out and deflated balls probably didn't matter too much but you got to wonder what else was crooked about this game that we never will know about.

[southwest1]

It does make me wonder what popular Halloween costumes will look like next October in INDY doesn't it?

 

Can parents order early from the deflated pigskin line or at least buy whoopie cushions in the shape of footballs with no air in them? Hmmm...

 

When you think of Mayflower moving trucks & how that story from the Colts past never died, it makes you wonder how far this circumstance will be taken after this season. 

 

Controversies don't really rely on facts but speculation that dirty tactics tainted another team's legacy from the Tuck Rule, to SpyGate, & now decompression deception. 

 

Just look at JFK's assassination, the California blackouts, or the New Orleans SuperDome power failure.

 

If enough people believe in a conspiracy, it never dies no matter how much time passes since the original event in question. Or even how accurate or inaccurate 1's memory actually is. 

 

I don't fall in this conspiracy group myself, but I am always fascinated to see how long steadfast beliefs last regardless of empirical evidence to verify 1's claims of shady practices. 

[ruksak]

I think the Patriots won that game fair and square 

I don't think you should ever say something like that again. I get your jist, but they did not play "fair and square". They cheated. It may seem trivial, but there are only so many ways to cheat in football and the Patriots seem to exercise them all. Cheating is cheating. 

 

A shame too, because that is one hell of a team. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

It does make me wonder what popular Halloween costumes will look like next October in INDY doesn't it?

 

Can parents order early from the deflated pigskin line or at least by whoopie cushions in the shape of footballs with no air in them? Hmmm...

 

Hoodie with following acesories:

 

  

[southwest1]

The interesting thing about this whole deflate scandal is this: If I'm on the Patriots, I embrace the villain role. You basically accept that a vast majority of people believe you cheated & say look I'm not here to change anybody's opinion of this team outside this locker room or city. Believe whatever you want. I sleep fine at night either way. If you win, you dismiss the resentment as team jealousy; If you lose, it adds to the mystique of the team that some people simply love to hate no matter what.

 

You essentially say my teammates have my back & respect me & I don't really care what the naysayers think. You adopt the following mindset. "If you steal from one author it's called plagiarism; if you steal from many; it's called research." A well known joke in graduate school because it's comical & true at the same time.

 

It really boils down to whether guilt trips bother you or not & what winning means to you. I'm not taking sides here. I'm only articulating the devil's advocate side of the argument.   

[southwest1]

I keep thinking about the Detroit Lions game & stepping on Aaron Roger's leg twice & I specifically said that Suh should be suspended for 1 post season game for attempting to cause bodily harm to another player jeopardizing his professional livelihood. 

 

Here's the issue I am wrestling with: Is bodily harm an unforgivable sin in sports whereas a perceived rule infraction that was well known ahead of time is okay? What's more heinous? Physical sabotage of a player or violating the spirit of competitive sports at the highest pinnacle of your profession? If an established rule is intentionally broken by an experienced coach, does it matter what the magnitude of their next game is? If an individual player broke a similar rule, would they be allowed to play next week too? 

 

Again, I will reserve my judgment until I see what evidence the league office discloses in this matter in a few more days. 

[amfootball]

The interesting thing about this whole deflate scandal is this: If I'm on the Patriots, I embrace the villain role. You basically accept that a vast majority of people believe you cheated & say look I'm not here to change anybody's opinion of this team outside this locker room or city. Believe whatever you want. I sleep fine at night either way. If you win, you dismiss the resentment as team jealousy; If you lose, it adds to the mystique of the team that some people simply love to hate no matter what.

 

You essentially say my teammates have my back & respect me & I don't really care what the naysayers think. You adopt the following mindset. "If you steal from one author it's called plagiarism; if you steal from many; it's called research." A well known joke in graduate school because it's comical & true at the same time.

 

It really boils down to whether guilt trips bother you or not & what winning means to you. I'm not taking sides here. I'm only articulating the devil's advocate side of the argument.   

Hey there SW,

 

That has been a bit of mantra here this week from some of our talk show personalities. I think there is some truth to that. Kind of like the Raiders bad boy image from the 60s and 70s or the Detroit Pistons of the 80's.

 

Being in this territory is nothing new for Pats fans. We have been dealing with it for 8 years now in part because of a rule being broken and in part because the team continues to be successful. So here we are again. In familiar territory and embracing it and the image is probably the least path of resistance. Honestly, I am just stoked for this SB match up and have been reading all the x's and o's articles on the game this past week. This may be the best SB match up we have had in a long time.

[amfootball]

FYI - Belichick is speaking today at 9:30 a.m. EST

[IcyRhythms]

I just read on ESPN, if the Patriots are caught or admit that they did such things, the commisioner DOES in fact have the power to have the game replayed or even give the Colts an automatic W. WOW

 

This will not happen. He'll suspend coaching staff and take draft picks from them.

[Nadine]

Yet there is this

 

https://twitter.com/KevinClarkWSJ/status/557961198856306688

 

So who knows anymore.

 

Totally conflicting rumors of what 'everyone' is saying at the senior bowl.  This is why I don't trust unnamed 'sources'.  

 

Um...not at all what I said. So before you start judging my moral compass there...why don't you pay attention.

In a thread where everyone is questioning everything to do with the team I grew up rooting for, And when people say 'I couldn't imagine rooting for a team that does that', I'm trying to explain why I still do. Nothing will take away the way I felt watching my team win those championships, and because I don't believe any of what they did truly gave them some grand advantage, I don't sit there and say 'oh boy that sure was fun watching them win but a piece of me is dead inside knowing they didn't earn them.'

That seems to be what all of you want to hear us Patriots fans say...but you can't figure out why we won't.

 

I think they did earn the wins but I also think a piece of you should be dead inside knowing that the team you root for not only boasts about knowing the rules and knowing how to exploit them......but crosses the  line and sneakily violates them.  To me, it's a 'win at any cost' attitude that cheapens the game.  If you are a fan of the game, you cannot help but be dismayed by this.

 

Every team tries to gain an edge everywhere they can, whether it's a mental edge, physical, or in this case, straddling the line of what's allowed...but who judges the amount that an advantage was actually gained? It seems to be a matter of opinion at this point...and for me, without saying cheating is ok because once again it seems I have to continually reiterate this...if I don't believe that a big advantage was really gained then why would I sit and willow about it?

 

You cannot boast about knowing how to exploit the rules to your advantage and when you are found violating the rules......dismiss it. Well you can but, to me it is hypocritical.  You either know you are smart staying inside the rules or you are arrogant and choosing how you will deal with the rules as you see fit.  There is a difference.

 

i wasn't referring to you personally, just the team you root for. They can't claim a mis understanding of the rules this time. Also Brady laughing it off in an interview as if it wasn't true coupled with calling out harbaugh for not knowing the rule book a week earlier. You can see why anyone outside of pats fans are ready to pound them. They brought it on themselves and deserve everything they are getting and what ever punishment is handed down

 

^^^This. Brady laughing it off is enough to enrage the rest of the NFL.

 

Rumor from @seniorbowl (don't know if true), small group of team exec's saying Patriots will lose 2nd Rd Pick for "deflated ball scandal."

— Russell Lande (@RUSSLANDE)

January 22, 2015

 

There sure are a lot of rumors coming out of the senior bowl.

 

-----------

this

The @Ravens tipped off the @colts. @JayGlazer with more about #DeflateGate https://t.co/WtiD1eXQD9

— America's Pregame (@AmericasPregame)

January 21, 2015

 

Resonates with me as true.  I suspect that the rest of the league is sick of the Patriots getting away with skirting the rules.  I suspect that that's the reason that although the league knew about this and was investigating this.......the league wasn't the one that released this information.......an Indy reporter did.

 

I'm interested to see how this plays out.  I don't blame Pat fans for still loving their team but, the more you deflect this, the more you seem very similar to your organization.  Sorry, I like a lot of you guys but, that's my explanation as to why people are glad and even morbidly gleeful about a seemingly 'meaningless' violation.

 

Not that I'm excusing the feeding frenzy that's going on.  I just see the reasons for it.

[IcyRhythms]

Totally conflicting rumors of what 'everyone' is saying at the senior bowl.  This is why I don't trust unnamed 'sources'.  

 

 

I think they did earn the wins but I also think a piece of you should be dead inside knowing that the team you root for not only boasts about knowing the rules and knowing how to exploit them......but crosses the  line and sneakily violates them.  To me, it's a 'win at any cost' attitude that cheapens the game.  If you are a fan of the game, you cannot help but be dismayed by this.

 

 

You cannot boast about knowing how to exploit the rules to your advantage and when you are found violating the rules......dismiss it. Well you can but, to me it is hypocritical.  You either know you are smart staying inside the rules or you are arrogant and choosing how you will deal with the rules as you see fit.  There is a difference.

 

 

^^^This. Brady laughing it off is enough to enrage the rest of the NFL.

 

 

There sure are a lot of rumors coming out of the senior bowl.

 

-----------

this

The @Ravens tipped off the @colts. @JayGlazer with more about #DeflateGate https://t.co/WtiD1eXQD9

— America's Pregame (@AmericasPregame)

January 21, 2015

 

Resonates with me as true.  I suspect that the rest of the league is sick of the Patriots getting away with skirting the rules.  I suspect that that's the reason that although the league knew about this and was investigating this.......the league wasn't the one that released this information.......an Indy reporter did.

 

I'm interested to see how this plays out.  I don't blame Pat fans for still loving their team but, the more you deflect this, the more you seem very similar to your organization.  Sorry, I like a lot of you guys but, that's my explanation as to why people are glad and even morbidly gleeful about a seemingly 'meaningless' violation.

 

Not that I'm excusing the feeding frenzy that's going on.  I just see the reasons for it.

 

 

 

Birds of a feather flock together. Would you really expect anything less from Pats fans?

[ruksak]

I just read on ESPN, if the Patriots are caught or admit that they did such things, the commisioner DOES in fact have the power to have the game replayed or even give the Colts an automatic W. WOW

 

This will not happen. He'll suspend coaching staff and take draft picks from them.

AKA Rule 17 Section 2 Article 3

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/20_Rule17_Emergencies_UnfairActs.pdf

 

 

PENALTIES FOR UNFAIR ACTS

Article 3 The Commissioner’s powers under this Section 2 include the imposition of monetary fines and

draft-choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved in unfair acts, and, if appropriate, the reversal of

 a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the

 extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the

 procedures specified in Rule 17, Section 1, Articles 5 through 11, above. In all cases, the Commissioner

 will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any

 other procedure he deems appropriate. 

[amfootball]

John Harbaugh said he had NO ISSUE with Pats footballs. So Ravens tipping off report is bunk. http://nesn.com/2015/01/john-harbaugh-ravens-had-no-issue-with-patriots-footballs-cold-weather-to-blame/

[amfootball]

AKA Rule 17 Section 2 Article 3

 

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/20_Rule17_Emergencies_UnfairActs.pdf

I have to ask. Do you really want to play the Pats again?

[Nadine]

Birds of a feather flock together. Would you really expect anything less from Pats fans?

 

I like many of the Pat fans we have here and don't stereotype them into one group.  I'm just trying to explain why many NFL fans are irritated with the organization.  There are reasons and they are valid.

 

I think the Patriots need to take this seriously.  And I think Pat fans who deflect the seriousness of this should understand that it's not just that we're all jealous..... I think most people here have been honest in their admiration for the way the Pats play and the way BB coaches.

 

But this, is about a part of that organization that we do not admire.

[ruksak]

I have to ask. Do you really want to play the Pats again?

No. We already did that and your QB illegally had his preference of football type while ours did not. That is not fair. That is the result of your team's cheating. 

 

What I want is for the NFL to have have handled this the way ANY other sport/competition would've. At the half, the issue was apparent, the discovery was made. The only thing that would've been fair is for the game to have been called a forfeiture by way of cheating, Colts win. Right at the half, busted, cheating, game over. 

 

Do you honestly think a team caught cheating should be allowed to retain their spoils?  

[The Old Crow]

Mike and Mike are comparing the Belichick regime to the Nixon administration with a few snappy, " I'm not a crook'" snippets. Pretty funny.

[ruksak]

FYI - Belichick is speaking today at 9:30 a.m. EST

[amfootball]

No. We already did that and your QB illegally had his preference of football type while ours did not. That is not fair. That is the result of your team's cheating. 

 

What I want is for the NFL to have have handled this the way ANY other sport/competition would've. At the half, the issue was apparent, the discovery was made. The only thing that would've been fair is for the game to have been called a forfeiture by way of cheating, Colts win. Right at the half, busted, cheating, game over. 

 

Do you honestly think a team caught cheating should be allowed to retain their spoils?  

They didn't know why the balls were deflated at half so at that point you just either pumped them up or get new balls as they did. That is why they are investigating right now to determine if there was tampering.

[jvan1973]

The real losers here are those poor footballs. When Goodell gets his hands on them they are headed the way of certain video tapes.......... DOOM

[jvan1973]

FYI - Belichick is speaking today at 9:30 a.m. EST

one, Two THRee FOUR FIIIIIIF

[ruksak]

They didn't know why the balls were deflated at half so at that point you just either pumped them up or get new balls as they did. That is why they are investigating right now to determine if there was tampering.

A few things;

1) Did the refs ask the Patriots (Belichick, whoever) if they had tampered with the balls when discovered at the half?

 

1a) If they did, I assume the answer was "no".

 

2) If the answer was "no" and it is proven that, in fact, they had manipulated the state of the ball, this means the NFL (by-proxy) was lied too in order to cover up a cheat. 

 

If all the NFL did was replace the balls, that's gross incompetence. 

[The Old Crow]

One funny aside just noted , is the plow they used in that December game against the Dolphins to clear the field , pre- Belichick, is in the Patriots Hall of Fame. I think these deflated footballs , Brady's Tuck rule football, and 77 tackle eligible jersey, would make other interesting exhibits to their HOF.

[ruksak]

one, Two THRee FOUR FIIIIIIF

I feel pretty strongly that Belichick will deflect any and all questions about this. I will be shocked if he so much as acknowledges it. 

[jvan1973]

I feel pretty strongly that Belichick will deflect any and all questions about this. I will be shocked if he so much as acknowledges it.

were onto helium

[amfootball]

A few things;

1) Did the refs ask the Patriots (Belichick, whoever) if they had tampered with the balls when discovered at the half?

 

1a) If they did, I assume the answer was "no".

 

2) If the answer was "no" and it is proven that, in fact, they had manipulated the state of the ball, this means the NFL (by-proxy) was lied too in order to cover up a cheat. 

 

If all the NFL did was replace the balls, that's gross incompetence. 

That is standard NFL procedure. To either pump up  the balls or replace them.  This is hardly the first game that balls have been pumped up or replaced.

[amfootball]

One funny aside just noted , is the plow they used in that December game against the Dolphins to clear the field , pre- Belichick, is in the Patriots Hall of Fame. I think these deflated footballs , Brady's Tuck rule football, and 77 tackle eligible jersey, would make other interesting exhibits to their HOF.

I wonder what would be in the Ravens HoF?

[jvan1973]

That is standard NFL procedure. To either pump up the balls or replace them. This is hardly the first game that balls have been pumped up or replaced.

mid game? all 12 pats balls were under inflated, all colts balls were in spec. Such a weird coincidence

[bababooey]

I feel pretty strongly that Belichick will deflect any and all questions about this. I will be shocked if he so much as acknowledges it.

He is not going to be able to deflect anything when you have people at media day in Arizona every single day, maybe some people from tmz who aren't scared of him like others asking him real questions ( similar to the goodell presser). You're not gonna have peter King throw him softballs. Heck I would love if Benjy from the howard stern show came in and started screaming like he did at that press conference.

[The Old Crow]

I wonder what would be in the Ravens HoF?

Our transgressions were more individualistic , rather than team oriented that put opposing teams at a disadvantage.

[amfootball]

mid game? all 12 pats balls were under inflated, all colts balls were in spec. Such a weird coincidence

And all 12 were replaced. Again, standard procedure by the NFL and also the subsequent investigation into possible tampering.

[amfootball]

Our transgressions were more individualistic , rather than team oriented that put opposing teams at a disadvantage.

Really? Deer Antler juice did not help your team two years ago?

[ruksak]

That is standard NFL procedure. To either pump up  the balls or replace them.  This is hardly the first game that balls have been pumped up or replaced.

All of them for one team? The report I heard is that the 12th was also underinflated, just barely. i.e. Someone made a mistake and didn't get enough air out. 

 

Common sense goes a long way here. All their footballs aren't going to mysteriously deflate like that.