Gronkowski man handled Sergio and Adams.....

[The Fish]

Anybody who thinks gronk was shut down is the uniformed one. They didn't throw it to gronk alot because they didn't need to throw it to gronk alot. Gronk was blocking the whole day and the run game was running wild. If you think gronk didn't have better numbers because he was "shut down" then you didn't watch the game. Its pretty much that simple.

I was thinking the same thing. If they wanted to throw more, they would have had just as much success- maybe more. The D got exposed.

[DougDew]

Wow, so you're trying to say Gronk is no bbetter than jack Doyle? Would Doyle have caught a 40 yard TD pass and broke like 3 tackles on his way to the endzone?

Nope.

Gronk's run blocking against the Colts was no better than what Jack Doyle has done all season. 

 

I don't know what Doyle would have done on that pass play against a tired defense.  It seemed to me that no defender was really in a position to make a clean tackle on Gronk, which is the fault of the play of the defenders...Its not like Gronk is Barry Sanders and made them miss anymore than any other TE would have.

[deadman]

Gronk's play was dirty it was on the smallest guy on our D for no one to stick up for Sergio is an embarrassment.  It's not dirty it's called having your guys back. We are soft watch the game.

That's not true. I don't think the TV camera showed it but Walden ran over and put a nice pop on Gronk after this. Ref through a flag but was never mentioned. Should have been off-setting penalties.

[ViriLudant]

Gronkjerkski should have gotten a flag for the first time he tried to throw Sergio after they went out of bounds.

Gronk was still talking crap and being a pompous ****** even after the flag was thrown the 2nd time they got into it.

Brown (and our secondary) held the best TE in football (who is almost JJ Watt Size) for under 80 yards. That's impressive in my book.

And I really don't want to hear about Landry would've done this or that. The only thing LaRoid would've done would be dive at people's legs and completely whiff the tackles.

How does one "hold" someone else when that other player did his job and blocked on 40 rushing plays ?

Fact: Gronk caught 4 out of 5 targets. The fifth was that lobbed INT.

Fact: Grink trucked the entire Colts' secondary for a TD, and two of his other catches were for first downs.

Kept in check... Please . The gameplan was to run the ball, and that worked BECAUSE Gronk is such an outstanding blocker.

[sweetsurrender]

You are look at at the wrong stat.  The targets tend to support Brown's assertion that Brdy didn't look his way when Brown was covering him.  Gronk was only targeted on 16.6% of the passes.  Against Denver he was targeted 19% of the time and against Chicago he was targeted over 25% of the pass plays.

 

Additionally Gronk was not pancaking anyone, they left him in the block and he did a good job of getting an angle and shielding but he was not a physical blocker for them.

No one was targeted much. Brady only had 11 attempts in the second half. Gronk had the second most targets with 5 behind Edelman with 8. That should tell you just how much the Pats ran the ball. Gronk was blocking most of the time. Not sure what else there is to say. He is widely regarded for his blocking and it showed all night.  

[Coffeedrinker]

No one was targeted much. Brady only had 11 attempts in the second half. Gronk had the second most targets with 5 behind Edelman with 8. That should tell you just how much the Pats ran the ball. Gronk was blocking most of the time. Not sure what else there is to say. He is widely regarded for his blocking and it showed all night.  

targets don't matter, it's percentage of target per pass attempt that shows how much a Qb was looking his way and he was only targeted on 16.6% of the pass attempt, a huge decline from the previous two games as I showed.

 

I base my opinion on Gronk's blocking from, you know, watching him block not by what Chris Collinsworth was saying about his blocking.  And he was not a dominating blocker, he took good angles and shielded well but if the defender was more than 210lbs he didn't push anyone around.

[sweetsurrender]

targets don't matter, it's percentage of target per pass attempt that shows how much a Qb was looking his way and he was only targeted on 16.6% of the pass attempt, a huge decline from the previous two games as I showed.

 

I base my opinion on Gronk's blocking from, you know, watching him block not by what Chris Collinsworth was saying about his blocking.  And he was not a dominating blocker, he took good angles and shielded well but if the defender was more than 210lbs he didn't push anyone around.

I think you need to actually look at how many times Gronk went out for a pass. It was not the Pats intent to pass which is why everyone's targets per pass attempt was down for the game. Not just him.

 

Perhaps we watched two different games regarding his blocking. I saw him make block after block all game. Gray was typically not touched until he hit the third level of the defense.

[Coffeedrinker]

I think you need to actually look at how many times Gronk went out for a pass. It was not the Pats intent to pass which is why everyone's targets per pass attempt was down for the game. Not just him.

 

Perhaps we watched two different games regarding his blocking. I saw him make block after block all game. Gray was typically not touched until he hit the third level of the defense.

Oh my word, do you really have that hard of a time understanding.  It's percentage of passes.  It doesn't matter if the Pats throw 50 times (Broncos game) or 30+ times (Chicago and Colts games) , the percentage of times that Brady targeted Gronk when he was throwing the ball was down to 16%.  The Pats threw the ball about the same number of times thye did against Chicago, yet in Chicago Gronk was targeted on 25% of the throws.  Against the Colts he was targeted on 16% of the throws.  See, it's percent of throws not percent of plays.  Everyone's target per pass attempt was not down.

 

Your second sentence is just stupid.  I never said he didn't make blocks actually just the opposite I said he took angles and shielded well.  You initially said he pancaked defenders, that is not true, then you claimed he was highly regarded for his blocking, yes Chris Collinsworth was in a circle over Gronk all night and now you are claiming that Gray was typically not touched until the third level, which isn't true either.

[ColtStronger]

Gronk's play was dirty it was on the smallest guy on our D for no one to stick up for Sergio is an embarrassment.  It's not dirty it's called having your guys back. We are soft watch the game.

Yep, I made a post earlier about that.  We are significantly more physical than we were in the Peyton era, but still not where we should be.  Sergio shouldnt have been talking, but Gronk doesn't have class if he thinks it's funny to do something like that.  You always let your play do the talking... Words aren't necessary, neither is cheap shots!  It is very sad Cory Redding, Erik Walden or someone that dont take nonsense didn't walk up to and smack him in the mouth for that.  We just don't have dirty players on our team.  Not that I encourage it, but we definitely need an enforcer that has the mentality of a bully.  I believe it is a NEED for this team as much as a permanent safety.  As talented as we are, we won't win a SB without "tough guys"!  That is why we fail against great teams.  We don't have a backbone or foundation to lean on with all of this talent.

[sweetsurrender]

Oh my word, do you really have that hard of a time understanding.  It's percentage of passes.  It doesn't matter if the Pats throw 50 times (Broncos game) or 30+ times (Chicago and Colts games) , the percentage of times that Brady targeted Gronk when he was throwing the ball was down to 16%.  The Pats threw the ball about the same number of times thye did against Chicago, yet in Chicago Gronk was targeted on 25% of the throws.  Against the Colts he was targeted on 16% of the throws.  See, it's percent of throws not percent of plays.  Everyone's target per pass attempt was not down.

 

Your second sentence is just stupid.  I never said he didn't make blocks actually just the opposite I said he took angles and shielded well.  You initially said he pancaked defenders, that is not true, then you claimed he was highly regarded for his blocking, yes Chris Collinsworth was in a circle over Gronk all night and now you are claiming that Gray was typically not touched until the third level, which isn't true either.

Not being targeted does not mean he was not open, you know? The design of the play may have have had Gronk as the 2nd or 3rd option and Brady threw to his first read. It was clear in the first half that Brady was trying to get the ball downfield. Perhaps they saw more of a weakness there. They are a game specific team so to read anything into Gronk not being targeted as evidence that he was somehow shut down is a huge reach.

 

I really don't know what your point is on his blocking. Semantics I guess. I said pancaked, you said he good angles and shielded. So we agree he did a fine job blocking in the run game. I suggest you also look at how many of our DBs had tackles on Gray if you don't think he routinely made it to our third level.

[Coffeedrinker]

Not being targeted does not mean he was not open, you know? The design of the play may have have had Gronk as the 2nd or 3rd option and Brady threw to his first read. It was clear in the first half that Brady was trying to get the ball downfield. Perhaps they saw more of a weakness there. They are a game specific team so to read anything into Gronk not being targeted as evidence that he was somehow shut down is a huge reach.

 

I really don't know what your point is on his blocking. Semantics I guess. I said pancaked, you said he good angles and shielded. So we agree he did a fine job blocking in the run game. I suggest you also look at how many of our DBs had tackles on Gray if you don't think he routinely made it to our third level.

Considering that Gronk is typically the 1st or 2nd read then yes it does.

 

It's not semantics, there is a huge difference between pancaking a defender and shielding a defender.  As far as Gray getting to the third level, that doesn't have a lot to do with Gronk's individual blocking, it has to do with the blocking as a hole.

[corgi]

You need a few guys on your roster that set the tone and are not "nice" guys.

I agree with that. You can be a BA and not be a punk. I'm all for a bunch of tough ba's running around knocking the dog crap out of guys. I just don't want a bunch of hit after the whistle, step on a dudes face guys.

[corgi]

74 yards and a TD is a good day for any tight end, especially considering that he did most of his damage in the running game as a blocker.

It only further supports how good he is. When he's on the field, you have no idea whether he's going to catch a pass, wrecking half your defense as they try and bring him down or come off the snap and take a linebacker or safety completely out of the picture

I will never argue his talent, he's simply fantastic. People just always seem to go for the top shelf with their words now. I've seen everything from annihilated to destroyed. If 74 yards is utter destruction then TY Hilton commits genocide on defenses sometimes.

[Superfly Jay]

I don't understand people sometimes. Players talk trash to each other all of the time, it's no big deal. So let me get this straight Walden reacts to someone talking to him and gets thrown out of the game for it "what was he thinking", but with Gronk it's cool it's "he threw him out the club" corny nonsense. Gronk doesn't even play for us but even our own fans will defend him all day, he can do no wrong. But when Walden does the exact same thing it's "he's a thug" or "let's cut him". People got this stuff twisted. 

[corgi]

I don't understand people sometimes. Players talk trash to each other all of the time, it's no big deal. So let me get this straight Walden reacts to someone talking to him and gets thrown out of the game for it "what was he thinking", but with Gronk it's cool it's "he threw him out the club" corny nonsense. Gronk doesn't even play for us but even our own fans will defend him all day, he can do no wrong. But when Walden does the exact same thing it's "he's a thug" or "let's cut him". People got this stuff twisted. 

There's a group of people that just hate Walden. He could have 11 pick sixes in a game and they would still shrug and say he is mediocre.

[ColtsBlueFL]

How does one "hold" someone else when that other player did his job and blocked on 40 rushing plays ?

Fact: Gronk caught 4 out of 5 targets. The fifth was that lobbed INT.

Fact: Grink trucked the entire Colts' secondary for a TD, and two of his other catches were for first downs.

Kept in check... Please . The gameplan was to run the ball, and that worked BECAUSE Gronk is such an outstanding blocker.

 

Look out Dallas Clark!  The next Madden directors cut will feature the Gronk!

 

[sweetsurrender]

Considering that Gronk is typically the 1st or 2nd read then yes it does.

 

It's not semantics, there is a huge difference between pancaking a defender and shielding a defender.  As far as Gray getting to the third level, that doesn't have a lot to do with Gronk's individual blocking, it has to do with the blocking as a hole.

. 

 

How do you know he is typically the first or second read? Do you have the play call sheet? Depends on the opponent and the play call. Pats are notorious for spreading the ball around

 

How do you figure that Gronk's blocking did not have to do with Gray getting to the third level given he was the one clearing the holes for him at the line?

[jvan1973]

Gronk man handled every player on defense

no he didn't

[JerodMayo51]

Gronk's run blocking against the Colts was no better than what Jack Doyle has done all season.

Doyle is a specialist that is brought in as a run blocker, that's what he does.

Gronk can not only block as good or better than him, but can dominate in the passing game as well. Doyle cannot dominate in all phases, he's the equivalent of the Pats Hoomanawanui

Not sure where this idea that he didn't play well is coming from. Since when is 74 yards and a TD considered a bad day for a TE? Especially when he contributed even more in the running game, which broke a franchise record that game by the way.

I dunno, call it what you want but Gronk played great and there isn't another TE playing now or ever that I would take over him.

[DougDew]

Doyle is a specialist that is brought in as a run blocker, that's what he does.

Gronk can not only block as good or better than him, but can dominate in the passing game as well. Doyle cannot dominate in all phases, he's the equivalent of the Pats Hoomanawanui

Not sure where this idea that he didn't play well is coming from. Since when is 74 yards and a TD considered a bad day for a TE? Especially when he contributed even more in the running game, which broke a franchise record that game by the way.

I dunno, call it what you want but Gronk played great and there isn't another TE playing now or ever that I would take over him.

You're reading things into my posts that I didn't say.  I didn't say that Doyle was a better TE.  I simply said that Gronk didn't do anything Sunday night that wasn't any better than Doyle could've done, or even Hoomanawanui, except maybe that one TD play near trash time.

 

Maybe he was a better decoy than Doyle or Hoomie.

 

Yet the Legend-of-Gronk continues....apparently becaused he pushed a toothpick into a camera.  Sorry, I don't get the love.

[lollygagger8]

How does one "hold" someone else when that other player did his job and blocked on 40 rushing plays ?

Fact: Gronk caught 4 out of 5 targets. The fifth was that lobbed INT.

Fact: Grink trucked the entire Colts' secondary for a TD, and two of his other catches were for first downs.

Kept in check... Please . The gameplan was to run the ball, and that worked BECAUSE Gronk is such an outstanding blocker.

 

The man crush is strong with this one. 

 

Fact:  your opinion isn't fact. 

 

 

 

The only trucking Gronk did, was backing up his ego on on a flatbed that barely fit into the stadium. 

[BOTT]

How does one "hold" someone else when that other player did his job and blocked on 40 rushing plays ?

Fact: Gronk caught 4 out of 5 targets. The fifth was that lobbed INT.

Fact: Grink trucked the entire Colts' secondary for a TD, and two of his other catches were for first downs.

Kept in check... Please . The gameplan was to run the ball, and that worked BECAUSE Gronk is such an outstanding blocker.

Yeah, because without Gronk the Pats only ran for 234 last yr.

[BOTT]

Yup if someone gonna trash talk you, your gonna shut them up with your play. Respect to the Gronk. When someone is trash talking to me, I either cross them over and go for the 3 or go blow pass them for the dunk.

Sure, but you don't push them into the stands because you can't take it. DB's talk trash constantly, so it's not unique to Sergio. What Gronk did was dumb and cheap, but he won't be called out because he's a media darling.

[akcolt]

Yep, I made a post earlier about that.  We are significantly more physical than we were in the Peyton era, but still not where we should be.  Sergio shouldnt have been talking, but Gronk doesn't have class if he thinks it's funny to do something like that.  You always let your play do the talking... Words aren't necessary, neither is cheap shots!  It is very sad Cory Redding, Erik Walden or someone that dont take nonsense didn't walk up to and smack him in the mouth for that.  We just don't have dirty players on our team.  Not that I encourage it, but we definitely need an enforcer that has the mentality of a bully.  I believe it is a NEED for this team as much as a permanent safety.  As talented as we are, we won't win a SB without "tough guys"!  That is why we fail against great teams.  We don't have a backbone or foundation to lean on with all of this talent.

I couldn't agree more you have offensive guys pushing our D around granted it was Gronk and he isn't the typical skill player. He might have knocked the crap out of all them but you can't let your that happen especially in your house. That's what the Pats do they bully us.

[ViriLudant]

Sure, but you don't push them into the stands because you can't take it. DB's talk trash constantly, so it's not unique to Sergio. What Gronk did was dumb and cheap, but he won't be called out because he's a media darling.

Someone posted the gif somewhere.

They fell literally 4-5 yards out of bounds. Happens all the time. The real question is, what was the lift doing so close to the sideline?

[BOTT]

Someone posted the gif somewhere.

They fell literally 4-5 yards out of bounds. Happens all the time. The real question is, what was the lift doing so close to the sideline?

There was a reason the ref threw a flag. I'm not saying it was a big deal, but it was dumb and unnecessary.

[RandomFan]

Right.  So he would have had 9 catches for 180 yards and three TDs if he was asked to.  So would have Jack Doyle a few weeks ago, if he wasn't asked to manhandle the Eagles safties and LBs from the FB position.

 

Too bad Doyle was asked to be a FB, or else he would have had 10 catches for 190 yards and 4 TDs against the Eagles, bettering Gronks imaginary performance.......

 

I watched the game, and Gronk didn't do crap except pick on the smallest guy on the field.

 

You continue to prove you didn't pay close enough attention to the game when you say things like this. Nothing else needs to be said here. You just don't know what you're talking about. 

[DougDew]

You continue to prove you didn't pay close enough attention to the game when you say things like this. Nothing else needs to be said here. You just don't know what you're talking about. 

What did he do?  With crap being defined as being better than an average TE last Sunday.  No, he didn't do crap.

[RandomFan]

What did he do?  With crap being defined as being better than an average TE last Sunday.  No, he didn't do crap.

 

He spent most of the day blocking which he did an amazing job at and when his number was called *which wasn't often because they didn't need to call on him often* he made plays. He was only targeted 5 times and he caught it 4 times for 71 yards and a TD. So in other words, when they wanted to throw it to gronk, they threw it to gronk.You really think GRONK wasn't targeted more because of brown being on him? LOL. 

[DougDew]

He spent most of the day blocking which he did an amazing job at and when his number was called *which wasn't often because they didn't need to call on him often* he made plays. He was only targeted 5 times and he caught it 4 times for 71 yards and a TD. So in other words, when they wanted to throw it to gronk, they threw it to gronk.You really think GRONK wasn't targeted more because of brown being on him? LOL. 

Your comment was brought up by others in either this thread or in other threads.  I don't want to rehash the debate.  I'll just say that a missing piece of your thinking is...if a TE is well covered, he won't be targeted.

[SMett]

Ever think maybe these guys talk trash with the intent of trying to get under the opposition's skin, to draw an unsportsman like 15 yard penalty? Looks like it worked, too little too late, but it worked. -- Cooler heads and all.

[GoPats]

Gronk's stat line: 4 Receptions, 71 yards (26 of which came on the scoring play). That's not a man-handling at all.

 

He had 149 yards and 3 TD's against Chicago, and 105 yards and a TD against Denver.

       

Lots of uninformed posts in here.

 

 

"Stat lines" don't include dominant blocking, which is (obviously) what the Patriots asked him to do Sunday night, for the most part. 

 

 

EDIT: Should have read the entire thread before responding. This was obviously covered.

 

I think this thread is hysterical though. If Gronk was a free agent in 2015 and the Colts signed him, you guys would lose your minds with delight. 

[ViriLudant]

Your comment was brought up by others in either this thread or in other threads. I don't want to rehash the debate. I'll just say that a missing piece of your thinking is...if a TE is well covered, he won't be targeted.

Wha....?

If it isn't a passing play, as over 40 offense plays weren't for the Pats, how in god's name could he be targeted?

[DougDew]

Wha....?

If it isn't a passing play, as over 40 offense plays weren't for the Pats, how in god's name could he be targeted?

Well...my bad... "targeted" might be an official stat term.  If the QB reads the TE as his 1st or 2nd read, and the TE is covered, the QB then "targets" his 3rd read...right? 

 

I'm not sure that pointing out that they completed 4 out of 5 targets really says what is trying to be said, after all he may have only been open 5 out of 25 passing plays.

 

I think CoffeeDrinker in one of these threads had a compelling stat relative to percentage of pass plays that showed Gronk's passing stats were less efficient than most recent games.  Indicating that he was covered better during the Colts game than other recent games.

[Blue Horseshoe]

He should be suspended for being a thug.