Kraig Urbik discussion

[crazycolt1]

I`m on this forum every day, you assume much? You took what I said out of context and blew it up into Grigsons whole work of art. Yes he's done an excellent job in some aspects, I pinpointed O line. If you think the Colts O line is as good as it should be then maybe you need to re-evaluate what you consider a good NFL O line is? I mentioned the cap space he had to work with, its not like his hands were tied behind his back.  I`m sick of the Colts putrid O line. Ever since Tarik Glenn retired, after the '06 season, the line has gone down hill. Not all on Grigson, as that was before his time but its been the same sorry run game year after year. Some how I don't think you know what you think you know?

Your comment was exactly to have Grigson finally do his job and address the O-line with the cap space at the start of the season. Well he tried. Do you think good offensive linemen grow on trees? They are very hard to find and when a team does find a good one it cost big time. For one thing when Manning was here the Colts were designed for passing and to protect the passer. That is why Addai worked so well in the system without being a great runner. He was a great blocker and caught out of the backfield very well. Grigson has really only had one year to build an o-line because of his problems he inherited his first year. I hope that don't need explaining. He has brought in o-linemen in an attempt to improve and you act like he has been negligent. It seems like you are one of the very few who thinks Grigson does not do a fine job. Look at what he started with and look at the success he has had from day one. You can choose to overlook that all you care to but not me. A good O-line is built through the draft and Grigson has tried but he can't control the injuries.

[DougDew]

I'm more concerned about the OT spot.

As far as Incognito, it may be a case where he feeds off of guys with personalities like Martin, and a supporting posse. If there is no one like Martin or a posse, Incognito may tone it down.

But he's a G and I think any roster shuffle should focus on upgrading OT.

[Jason_]

oh it's a reason

Only to you

[ztboiler]

When you are building a team you can't go over pay for positions that aren't big money positions G's and C or it will have long term cap implications. Grig's will get it straight. He will be active in the next couple of days.

Your implication here is that Grigs can add an Oline player in the coming days that will upgrade our line.  He may add a player and drop Austin, but there are no players, short of unlikely trade scenarios, that will change the performance capabilities of the unit at hand.  It is wishful thinking to expect more from players now available.  

 

The line can and will get better than it has shown in pre-season, but it will be as a result of our current players getting healthy.

[Superman]

You nailed it as far as the 49ers Boone one good year and Synder has done nothing but get cut since signing his deal.

 

Doesn't change the fact the O Line needs a little help.  IF Holmes pans out we could be much improved I expect Thorton to have a much better year if he can settle into RG. We are thin until Reitz is back probably 6 wks.

 

When you are building a team you can't go over pay for positions that aren't big money positions G's and C or it will have long term cap implications. Grig's will get it straight. He will be active in the next couple of days.

 

Snyder had a decent year as a reserve lineman. Kind of what we need at the moment, especially since he can play virtually every position (including center, in a pinch). He's better than Thomas Austin, IMO.

 

I'd rather have him as a swing reserve than Incognito, who hasn't played in a year.

[akcolt]

Snyder had a decent year as a reserve lineman. Kind of what we need at the moment, especially since he can play virtually every position (including center, in a pinch). He's better than Thomas Austin, IMO.

 

I'd rather have him as a swing reserve than Incognito, who hasn't played in a year.

He is getting old Now 32, Snyder appeared in all 16 games last season, starting four. He was generally ineffective across 374 snaps

 

San Fran with Boone holding out is almost as bad off as we are,I would guess he looked pretty bad to get cut. If Grig's brings him in I won't complain but there has to be something better out there like Legursky limited to probably C and LG but only 28. I know we are thin at T right now. Any idea on Nixon?

 

I am not a big fan of Austin was surprised he made the final 53. There were a few things that surprised me about the final 53 like 9 DB's and Tipton. I wouldn't be surprised if Tipton were the guy let go to bring in an S and Austin being replaced. I was surprised Sheppard got sacked too.

 

Irish fan? Golson looked good today.

[akcolt]

Your implication here is that Grigs can add an Oline player in the coming days that will upgrade our line.  He may add a player and drop Austin, but there are no players, short of unlikely trade scenarios, that will change the performance capabilities of the unit at hand.  It is wishful thinking to expect more from players now available.  

 

The line can and will get better than it has shown in pre-season, but it will be as a result of our current players getting healthy.

I am not sure how you got that from what I said.

 

I have said from the get go and still believe that our O Line will go where Holmes takes it. Hopefully Grigs hit on that pick.

 

I do not think we are going to find a magic player to come in and start and make our O Line better. I do believe we can find a player better than Austin to get us through until Nixon and Reitz heal. 

 

I do believe Incognitio might have been able to make us better but we weren't interested in exploring that. That ship has sailed at this point. Grig's call no problem.

 

Starters have no major injuries we are dancing with who we brought to the party. I have no problem dancing with the young guys and building in fact i prefer it. I expect Thorton to settle in to RG and play much better. 

 

If Holmes can go we made it through the preseason games without a major injury to our starting O Line minus Thomas but I never expected him back to full strength to start the year anyway.

 

Castanzo Mewhort Holmes Thorton Cherilus that is our O Line. I think if Holmes is what the coach's think they have that can be a much more effective unit than a lot on the board believe. The 7 snaps looked good.  It needs time together to gel. The Holmes injury set that back unfortunately.

 

What I expect is to look for a better alternatives as far as depth goes.Maybe we find nothing. And to find a couple O Linemen for the PS preferably someone who can play T. I think we bring Walker back for PS

 

If Grig's decides to make a move I would hope it is not for Boone but I don't think it is necessary.

[ztboiler]

I am not sure how you got that from what I said.

 

I have said from the get go and still believe that our O Line will go where Holmes takes it. Hopefully Grigs hit on that pick.

 

I do not think we are going to find a magic player to come in and start and make our O Line better. I do believe we can find a player better than Austin to get us through until Nixon and Reitz heal. 

 

I do believe Incognitio might have been able to make us better but we weren't interested in exploring that. That ship has sailed at this point. Grig's call no problem.

 

Starters have no major injuries we are dancing with who we brought to the party. I have no problem dancing with the young guys and building in fact i prefer it. I expect Thorton to settle in to RG and play much better. 

 

If Holmes can go we made it through the preseason games without a major injury to our starting O Line minus Thomas but I never expected him back to full strength to start the year anyway.

 

Castanzo Mewhort Holmes Thorton Cherilus that is our O Line. I think if Holmes is what the coach's think they have that can be a much more effective unit than a lot on the board believe. The 7 snaps looked good.  It needs time together to gel. The Holmes injury set that back unfortunately.

 

What I expect is to look for a better alternatives as far as depth goes.Maybe we find nothing. And to find a couple O Linemen for the PS preferably someone who can play T. I think we bring Walker back for PS

 

If Grig's decides to make a move I would hope it is not for Boone but I don't think it is necessary.

Thanks for clarifying.  Yes, I got a different implication from your statement that Grigs would fix it in the coming days - which seemed like a departure for your consistent and balanced views on the Oline rebuilding project.

 

At this point in the project, we can't really raise the ceiling of Oline production beyond where that group of starters can take us once healthy - as you have effectively made note of.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Your comment was exactly to have Grigson finally do his job and address the O-line with the cap space at the start of the season. Well he tried. Do you think good offensive linemen grow on trees? They are very hard to find and when a team does find a good one it cost big time. For one thing when Manning was here the Colts were designed for passing and to protect the passer. That is why Addai worked so well in the system without being a great runner. He was a great blocker and caught out of the backfield very well. Grigson has really only had one year to build an o-line because of his problems he inherited his first year. I hope that don't need explaining. He has brought in o-linemen in an attempt to improve and you act like he has been negligent. It seems like you are one of the very few who thinks Grigson does not do a fine job. Look at what he started with and look at the success he has had from day one. You can choose to overlook that all you care to but not me. A good O-line is built through the draft and Grigson has tried but he can't control the injuries.

Its 1 week before the season opener. Here we are again for the umpteenth time with the Colts "have big question marks concerning the O line" and "O line is the biggest need"?? 1 week from opener. I hope that don`t need explaining

[Superman]

He is getting old Now 32, Snyder appeared in all 16 games last season, starting four. He was generally ineffective across 374 snaps

 

San Fran with Boone holding out is almost as bad off as we are,I would guess he looked pretty bad to get cut. If Grig's brings him in I won't complain but there has to be something better out there like Legursky limited to probably C and LG but only 28. I know we are thin at T right now. Any idea on Nixon?

 

I am not a big fan of Austin was surprised he made the final 53. There were a few things that surprised me about the final 53 like 9 DB's and Tipton. I wouldn't be surprised if Tipton were the guy let go to bring in an S and Austin being replaced. I was surprised Sheppard got sacked too.

 

Irish fan? Golson looked good today.

 

Snyder wasn't ineffective. He was more than okay as a run blocker, but not great as a pass blocker. 

[Jason_]

Its 1 week before the season opener. Here we are again for the umpteenth time with the Colts "have big question marks concerning the O line" and "O line is the biggest need"?? 1 week from opener. I hope that don`t need explaining

Is that for lack of attempting to fix the OL or is it perhaps more to do to injuries?

[SOMDColtsfan]

Is that for lack of attempting to fix the OL or is it perhaps more to do to injuries?

That's a legitimate question and I believe its a mixture of both.  Maybe its a fine line between giving up on an injured guy too soon and keeping a guy around hoping they`ll stay healthy. Donald Thomas was out all last year and now again this year? Some say its just bad luck. But he was injured often in New England. Then I heard a story about Hall of Fame OT Anthony Munoz, played sparingly in his last 2 years of college due to knee injuries, still gets drafted in 1st round and never saw repeat injuries his whole pro career and considered one of best ever. You really don't know. Hind sight is 20-20 and the reality of O line decisions made hasn't turned out well. Just frustrated like most everybody else. I see AQ Shipley is back with the Colts, great to hear btw. But why did they trade him to the Ravens for David Reed? Reed was awful and Shipley always seemed to be an upgrade when he was in. Why did they trade Burley to the Seahaws and put Price on the PS? Our secondary hasn't been one to stay healthy all year either 

[crazycolt1]

Its 1 week before the season opener. Here we are again for the umpteenth time with the Colts "have big question marks concerning the O line" and "O line is the biggest need"?? 1 week from opener. I hope that don`t need explaining

Grigson has not been here for umpteenth time. He has had one season to attempt to build an O-line. His first draft was on offensive skill players. . There was no choice but to go offensive skill players because of the players that were cut. The QB, WR and TE had to be addressed because we didn't have any. I do understand your frustration with the O-Line but to point the finger at Grigson and then say he was not doing his job was not correct.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Grigson has not been here for umpteenth time. He has had one season to attempt to build an O-line. His first draft was on offensive skill players. . There was no choice but to go offensive skill players because of the players that were cut. The QB, WR and TE had to be addressed because we didn't have any. I do understand your frustration with the O-Line but to point the finger at Grigson and then say he was not doing his job was not correct.

There you go again twisting what I wrote? I didn't say "Grigson`s" been here the umpteenth time. I said the "Colts" and question marks on the O line. Will you please stop twisting my comments to meet your agenda? Its been this way with the O line AND run game since Tarik Glenn retired after '06. Again, that's not all on Grigson but as a fan have still endured it, thus the frustrations. This was Grigsons 3rd draft by the way and if you want to debate positional players, did he really need to draft 2 TE`s that early in the draft? Its nice to have but more a luxury when starting from scratch. That's an example, IMO- yes I`m allowed to have one whether you agree or not with - of not doing a good job as a GM. He could have drafted Luck and then some O lineman to protect him. The old cliché` "it starts in the trenches", you ever heard of that? Still holds true, IMO. Last time I checked Grigson is the GM and unless I`m wrong is there another postion to point fingers at between him and the owner? Please fill me in  

[jvan1973]

There you go again twisting what I wrote? I didn't say "Grigson`s" been here the umpteenth time. I said the "Colts" and question marks on the O line. Will you please stop twisting my comments to meet your agenda? Its been this way with the O line AND run game since Tarik Glenn retired after '06. Again, that's not all on Grigson but as a fan have still endured it, thus the frustrations. This was Grigsons 3rd draft by the way and if you want to debate positional players, did he really need to draft 2 TE`s that early in the draft? Its nice to have but more a luxury when starting from scratch. That's an example, IMO- yes I`m allowed to have one whether you agree or not with - of not doing a good job as a GM. He could have drafted Luck and then some O lineman to protect him. The old cliché` "it starts in the trenches", you ever heard of that? Still holds true, IMO. Last time I checked Grigson is the GM and unless I`m wrong is there another postion to point fingers at between him and the owner? Please fill me in

23-12

[SOMDColtsfan]

23-12

145-50 - 1 SB.. awesome decade..but..I hate the "but" part..was always something holding the team back from winning it all .Usually stopping the run on defense or no run game on offense. '06 they got it together late and stopped the run and the tandem of Addai and Rhodes were able to run when they needed. That was the difference right there in one and done or winning it all. Right now the O line feels like the Achilles heal holding this team back , just like the defense did then. I understand every team has issues at some position due to salary caps and injuries but its been year after year. After that performance against the Saints, their D lineman in the backfield before Luck could hand the ball off or nowhere to run, I about imploded. Is it playcalling? Is it like Superman had written a thread about the play action missing from the Colts offense, bad blocking, bad personnel? I don't know..I`m just to the point as a fan I want it fixed lol same as stopping the run on defense had gotten after all those years. Its frustrating. Get some mean, nasty players and kick some tail. Telling me I must not follow this team very closely in a condescending way irked me as much as it did to some as my saying Grigson`s not doing his job. 

[crazycolt1]

There you go again twisting what I wrote? I didn't say "Grigson`s" been here the umpteenth time. I said the "Colts" and question marks on the O line. Will you please stop twisting my comments to meet your agenda? Its been this way with the O line AND run game since Tarik Glenn retired after '06. Again, that's not all on Grigson but as a fan have still endured it, thus the frustrations. This was Grigsons 3rd draft by the way and if you want to debate positional players, did he really need to draft 2 TE`s that early in the draft? Its nice to have but more a luxury when starting from scratch. That's an example, IMO- yes I`m allowed to have one whether you agree or not with - of not doing a good job as a GM. He could have drafted Luck and then some O lineman to protect him. The old cliché` "it starts in the trenches", you ever heard of that? Still holds true, IMO. Last time I checked Grigson is the GM and unless I`m wrong is there another postion to point fingers at between him and the owner? Please fill me in  

No one is saying what your opinion is on the O-line is wrong. What I am saying was a reply to your own comment. That finally Grigson will do his job. He has drafted 5 offensive linemen with his drafts. Two of them are on IR. He has made an effort to pick up offensive linemen when they were obtainable. So he is doing his job. It's that simple. Maybe if you would have worded your comment not to sound like it was an insult the reaction would have been different. You can't point the finger at Grigson for what was going on before he became GM with the umpteenth comment. Everyone of us is frustrated with the offensive line play but it is a work in progress that never ends. The Colts are by far not the only team in the NFL that has problems getting quality offensive linemen. Is that so hard to fathom?

[SOMDColtsfan]

No one is saying what your opinion is on the O-line is wrong. What I am saying was a reply to your own comment. That finally Grigson will do his job. He has drafted 5 offensive linemen with his drafts. Two of them are on IR. He has made an effort to pick up offensive linemen when they were obtainable. So he is doing his job. It's that simple. Maybe if you would have worded your comment not to sound like it was an insult the reaction would have been different. You can't point the finger at Grigson for what was going on before he became GM with the umpteenth comment. Everyone of us is frustrated with the offensive line play but it is a work in progress that never ends. The Colts are by far not the only team in the NFL that has problems getting quality offensive linemen. Is that so hard to fathom?

When Jim Irsay fired everybody in town he made it known the Colts were going to move into a new direction on offense with football philosophy. Power run game, tenacious defense. Yet here we sit 3 years later with a top tier QB, good WR`s, not 1 but 2 good TE`s and probably, but yet to be seen, better at the RB position. That should be a good thing and in most cases it is. But...and....a still horrid O line. Its like Peyton Manning football 2.0 all over again. How do you tear a team to shreds personnel wise and rebuild exactly to what you had before IF your intention was to build it differently? How is that doing your job well? The Colts could win 10+  seasonal games again every year over this decade and not be built for playoff football..again. Peyton 2.0. Broncos 2.0  You say you cant compare Grigson to Polians tenure but when you look at the similarities on offense they are like a mirror image, when they are supposed to be total opposite. I read countless posts on how the Colts need to stop trying to run the ball and put it on Lucks arm to carry the way. I love Luck as the Colts QB but also have seen that might not be the best idea, sooner or later it catches up just like it did in the Chiefs and Patriots games, the last 2 games played that meant anything. One dimensional football is a recipe for disaster and that's how the Colts are built. That's my opinion. I`m not too big on myself to admit being wrong, for the sake of the Colts I would love to see the current Oline come into their own and you bash me for saying Grigson didn't address the O line better when he should and could have. Please let that happen I don't care about ridicule   

[crazycolt1]

When Jim Irsay fired everybody in town he made it known the Colts were going to move into a new direction on offense with football philosophy. Power run game, tenacious defense. Yet here we sit 3 years later with a top tier QB, good WR`s, not 1 but 2 good TE`s and probably, but yet to be seen, better at the RB position. That should be a good thing and in most cases it is. But...and....a still horrid O line. Its like Peyton Manning football 2.0 all over again. How do you tear a team to shreds personnel wise and rebuild exactly to what you had before IF your intention was to build it differently? How is that doing your job well? The Colts could win 10+  seasonal games again every year over this decade and not be built for playoff football..again. Peyton 2.0. Broncos 2.0  You say you cant compare Grigson to Polians tenure but when you look at the similarities on offense they are like a mirror image, when they are supposed to be total opposite. I read countless posts on how the Colts need to stop trying to run the ball and put it on Lucks arm to carry the way. I love Luck as the Colts QB but also have seen that might not be the best idea, sooner or later it catches up just like it did in the Chiefs and Patriots games, the last 2 games played that meant anything. One dimensional football is a recipe for disaster and that's how the Colts are built. That's my opinion. I`m not too big on myself to admit being wrong, for the sake of the Colts I would love to see the current Oline come into their own and you bash me for saying Grigson didn't address the O line better when he should and could have. Please let that happen I don't care about ridicule   

But Grigson has attempted to address the offensive line. Just because it has not worked out you can't say he has not done his job. Can't you see the difference? You can write a whole novel on the history of the Colts but still  Grigson has done his job. If every pick a GM made was the players they wanted they would never lose a super bowl. You cant make up players you need out of the blue.

[SOMDColtsfan]

But Grigson has attempted to address the offensive line. Just because it has not worked out you can't say he has not done his job. Can't you see the difference? You can write a whole novel on the history of the Colts but still  Grigson has done his job. If every pick a GM made was the players they wanted they would never lose a super bowl. You cant make up players you need out of the blue.

Not writing a "whole novel".When somebody has a habit of twisting your words though it makes one feel they have to explain in detail to avoid that. No different than somebody so condescending with their comments. Really annoying. True, you cant make players up but AQ Shipley for instance was traded? He WAS on the roster. He played BETTER than Satele as did the whole line when he was in. Was that a good move? Glad they resigned him back. Did you read Kevin Bowens article on that? Grigson says the guard position isn't a position of emphasis right now? Are you freaking kidding me? He still refuses to get it, maybe its beyond him doing his job and you are RIGHT, he`s just plain bad at putting a O line together period. Give him props everywhere else but interior O line I stand by my comments

[crazycolt1]

Not writing a "whole novel".When somebody has a habit of twisting your words though it makes one feel they have to explain in detail to avoid that. No different than somebody so condescending with their comments. Really annoying. True, you cant make players up but AQ Shipley for instance was traded? He WAS on the roster. He played BETTER than Satele as did the whole line when he was in. Was that a good move? Glad they resigned him back. Did you read Kevin Bowens article on that? Grigson says the guard position isn't a position of emphasis right now? Are you freaking kidding me? He still refuses to get it, maybe its beyond him doing his job and you are RIGHT, he`s just plain bad at putting a O line together period. Give him props everywhere else but interior O line I stand by my comments

Not any more annoying than your comment stating Grigson wasn't doing his job. I don't need to read any story written by anyone to tell me that Grigson has done his best and made more than his share of attempts it getting an O-line together. You have your opinion so it really don't matter what me or anyone else thinks about it. It's done.

[Superman]

Not writing a "whole novel".When somebody has a habit of twisting your words though it makes one feel they have to explain in detail to avoid that. No different than somebody so condescending with their comments. Really annoying. True, you cant make players up but AQ Shipley for instance was traded? He WAS on the roster. He played BETTER than Satele as did the whole line when he was in. Was that a good move? Glad they resigned him back. Did you read Kevin Bowens article on that? Grigson says the guard position isn't a position of emphasis right now? Are you freaking kidding me? He still refuses to get it, maybe its beyond him doing his job and you are RIGHT, he`s just plain bad at putting a O line together period. Give him props everywhere else but interior O line I stand by my comments

 

Did I miss the 2014 season? I went to bed last night, and it was Kickoff Weekend. I wake up today, and we've already determined that the offensive line is bad and the team is one-dimensional... I must have slept for four months, right?

[Jason_]

Did I miss the 2014 season? I went to bed last night, and it was Kickoff Weekend. I wake up today, and we've already determined that the offensive line is bad and the team is one-dimensional... I must have slept for four months, right?

 

yes, you clearly did.  Both Castonzo and Cherilus regressed and Luck was running for his life from the get go.  Holmes played the first 3 plays of the first series but left the game when his ankle got an ouchy.  He refused to play the rest of the season in fear of doing more damage to his brittle body.  Thornton retired after week 3 because he was afraid of getting Luck hurt.  Grigson didn't see the need to bring in any more OL because, of course he didn't, so he made the DL pull double duty on the OL as well.  

 

Luck didn't even make it out of game 1.  Chapman, while playing C, got confused after snapping the ball and immediately turned around and swallowed Luck.  It was a heck of a sack, one we would have all been proud of had it not been on our own QB.  It was the only sack he or any of the rest of the DL would get all season.  Luck was forced to retire due to injury.

 

Hassellbeck quietly snuck out of the stadium while the trainers were attending to Luck.  He announced his retirement on twitter before the 2nd half even started.  Unfortunately, due to his ban, Irsay had no idea.

 

Chandler carried it the rest of the season and led the Colts to an 0-20 record.  They were so bad the league gave them 4 additional losses.  Grigson was publicly tarred and feathered before being fired.  Pagano and co. were then flogged in the streets before also being fired.  People came from miles around with torches and pitchforks.

 

We were all getting ready for the 2015 draft and who the Colts would take with their #1 pick, but then Goodell swooped in and decided that, in retrospect, he actually SHOULD have taken a draft pick from the Colts for what Irsay did so he stripped the Colts of the #1 pick and gave it to NE.

 

Oh, on a side note, Trent Richardson didn't even get 300 yards rushing but it was all his own fault.  The OL had nothing to do with it.  He was placed inside the Wicker Man for being so terrible.

[Superman]

yes, you clearly did.  Both Castonzo and Cherilus regressed and Luck was running for his life from the get go.  Holmes played the first 3 plays of the first series but left the game when his ankle got an ouchy.  He refused to play the rest of the season in fear of doing more damage to his brittle body.  Thornton retired after week 3 because he was afraid of getting Luck hurt.  Grigson didn't see the need to bring in any more OL because, of course he didn't, so he made the DL pull double duty on the OL as well.  

 

Luck didn't even make it out of game 1.  Chapman, while playing C, got confused after snapping the ball and immediately turned around and swallowed Luck.  It was a heck of a sack, one we would have all been proud of had it not been on our own QB.  It was the only sack he or any of the rest of the DL would get all season.  Luck was forced to retire due to injury.

 

Hassellbeck quietly snuck out of the stadium while the trainers were attending to Luck.  He announced his retirement on twitter before the 2nd half even started.  Unfortunately, due to his ban, Irsay had no idea.

 

Chandler carried it the rest of the season and led the Colts to an 0-20 record.  They were so bad the league gave them 4 additional losses.  Grigson was publicly tarred and feathered before being fired.  Pagano and co. were then flogged in the streets before also being fired.  People came from miles around with torches and pitchforks.

 

We were all getting ready for the 2015 draft and who the Colts would take with their #1 pick, but then Goodell swooped in and decided that, in retrospect, he actually SHOULD have taken a draft pick from the Colts for what Irsay did so he stripped the Colts of the #1 pick and gave it to NE.

 

Oh, on a side note, Trent Richardson didn't even get 300 yards rushing but it was all his own fault.  The OL had nothing to do with it.  He was placed inside the Wicker Man for being so terrible.

 

Thanks for catching me up, and in such detail. That explains what I've been reading lately.

[Jason_]

Thanks for catching me up, and in such detail. That explains what I've been reading lately.

 

no problem  , yeah I can understand how some of the posts lately could be confusing without knowing how the season played out.  

[SOMDColtsfan]

Did I miss the 2014 season? I went to bed last night, and it was Kickoff Weekend. I wake up today, and we've already determined that the offensive line is bad and the team is one-dimensional... I must have slept for four months, right?

Let me ask you something. At the end of the 2013 season and beginning of offseason with the cap surplus the Colts had would you have thought the Colts wouldn`t know who the starting center for the team would be 1 week or now even days before the opener? Would you have thought it might be a player just signed from another teams cuts? That is where my frustrations stem from. Why? Regardless of injuries, O line and secondary were the 2 biggest concerns heading into the offseason. Injuries happen yes, but the Colts were counting on the interior line being addressed with players who have been injured before and were big question marks as far as health. It has bit them and there`s no excuse for it. Ok lets wait and see how everything pans out? Next man up. That's nonsense! Meanwhile lets sign a center who we traded, who should never have been traded for the bum in David Reed they traded for and possibly insert him into the lineup with 1 week of practice? Theres no integrity with how important OTA`s are when stuff like this happen. Read everything I wrote, I also said I hope I`m wrong, I would love to be wrong. I have no problem to be wrong on this. But again, Grigson believes interior line is not of emphasis and I really do not understand his thinking on this. That's where the run game starts, has been the Achilles heal during his tenure and yet still wont be emphasized? I`m no football expert by any means like many here are but I know crap shined over and that's what this is 

[Superman]

Let me ask you something. At the end of the 2013 season and beginning of offseason with the cap surplus the Colts had would you have thought the Colts wouldn`t know who the starting center for the team would be 1 week or now even days before the opener? Would you have thought it might be a player just signed from another teams cuts? That is where my frustrations stem from. Why? Regardless of injuries, O line and secondary were the 2 biggest concerns heading into the offseason. Injuries happen yes, but the Colts were counting on the interior line being addressed with players who have been injured before and were big question marks as far as health. It has bit them and there`s no excuse for it. Ok lets wait and see how everything pans out? Next man up. That's nonsense! Meanwhile lets sign a center who we traded, who should never have been traded for the bum in David Reed they traded for and possibly insert him into the lineup with 1 week of practice? Theres no integrity with how important OTA`s are when stuff like this happen. Read everything I wrote, I also said I hope I`m wrong, I would love to be wrong. I have no problem to be wrong on this. But again, Grigson believes interior line is not of emphasis and I really do not understand his thinking on this. That's where the run game starts, has been the Achilles heal during his tenure and yet still wont be emphasized? I`m no football expert by any means like many here are but I know crap shined over and that's what this is 

 

To answer your question, no, I thought Holmes would be the starter. The only reason he might not be is because of a short term injury. Injuries happen. (No, this has nothing to do with Holmes' previous ankle injury. It's the other ankle. If we had signed Alex Mack and his ankle was rolled up on, he'd be questionable right now.) It's one thing to be frustrated, but it's another to lose all perspective. Even if Holmes misses the opener, that's just one game.

 

Also, in March, it looked like Phil Costa would be the primary center backup. And everyone hated that idea. Around the same time, people were still moaning about how we shouldn't have traded Shipley. Even you say in this post that he should never have been traded (by the way, we traded Shipley for a pick, not David Reed; that was the Delone Carter trade). Now Shipley's back. I don't understand what the beef is with this move. Whether it's someone else's backup or our own backup, he's been working all offseason, and he was better as a spot starter for us at center than he was as a full time starter at guard for the Ravens. I am amazed at how this move sparks complaint.

 

Do you want Grigson to have starting caliber backups at every offensive line position? When Grigson said after that draft that you can look at half the rosters around the league and not see a full time backup at center, did you do any research to confirm that statement? Again, perspective.

 

And really, if you want to complain, if it makes you feel better, if you think your viewpoint is legitimate, fine. Carry on. I disagree, but go ahead. I just don't understand how it is that you've determined prior to Week 1 that the offensive line won't be improved this season. Especially when your primary complaint right now is that Holmes might miss the opener, and we might have to start a player that you wish we had kept and started all last season.

[SOMDColtsfan]

If you had read my previous comments like I had asked, I said getting Shipley back was a GOOD thing, am happy to have him back. The run game/pass protection always seemed to be better with him at center, McGlynn at guard. My complaint at that time was why trade him then? Its all hind sight, I get that. My original post from which this all stems was before Shipley was signed, right after the Saints wreaked havoc on our 1st team offense and were in the backfield, just like last year before the ball could be handed off. It was simply frustrating, it is all still yet to be determined and the big picture to be painted. I get all that. If that's how should be w

hy then just not close the forum down until the end of the season until everything is clear and played out and discuss? 

[Smash Mouth]

But again, Grigson believes interior line is not of emphasis and I really do not understand his thinking on this. That's where the run game starts, has been the Achilles heal during his tenure and yet still wont be emphasized? I`m no football expert by any means like many here are but I know crap shined over and that's what this is

I like some of what you had to say but disagree with this statement.  I think Grigson does understand that the interior of the OL is important - the Colts run game is poor and Luck takes too many hits.  Grigson knows that the interior is largely responsible for these issues. I just think that he hasn't been successful with fixing the problem (not to mention the drafty position).  He's had 3 drafts and only 2012 has been graded an A.  We will find out this season how successful 2013 was - Werner, Thornton, and Holmes have huge opportunities. Mewhort will get a chance to put his stamp on 2014.  I know I'm covering old ground re: Grigson.  I'm just not impressed with him.

[ztboiler]

Let me ask you something. At the end of the 2013 season and beginning of offseason with the cap surplus the Colts had would you have thought the Colts wouldn`t know who the starting center for the team would be 1 week or now even days before the opener? Would you have thought it might be a player just signed from another teams cuts? That is where my frustrations stem from. Why? Regardless of injuries, O line and secondary were the 2 biggest concerns heading into the offseason. Injuries happen yes, but the Colts were counting on the interior line being addressed with players who have been injured before and were big question marks as far as health. It has bit them and there`s no excuse for it. Ok lets wait and see how everything pans out? Next man up. That's nonsense! Meanwhile lets sign a center who we traded, who should never have been traded for the bum in David Reed they traded for and possibly insert him into the lineup with 1 week of practice? Theres no integrity with how important OTA`s are when stuff like this happen. Read everything I wrote, I also said I hope I`m wrong, I would love to be wrong. I have no problem to be wrong on this. But again, Grigson believes interior line is not of emphasis and I really do not understand his thinking on this. That's where the run game starts, has been the Achilles heal during his tenure and yet still wont be emphasized? I`m no football expert by any means like many here are but I know crap shined over and that's what this is 

Please don't overlook Ted Thompson in your widespread criticism about poor GM work in the NFL....unless you want to look myopically at only the Colts.  

 

Green Bay came to the 2014 season expecting to start completely unproven J.C. Tretter (drafted one pick after Holmes) who spent most of his rookie season on the shelf.  Now he is on IR and they will open tonight on the road in Seattle with this year's 5th round pick snapping the ball to a future hall of famer.  Could the similarities be any closer to our own situation?  Is Grigson neglectful and Thompson is not?  Please consider that Thompson knowingly put himself in this spot by letting an effective center from last year's squad sign with the Bucs for a modest FA contract.

[SOMDColtsfan]

I like some of what you had to say but disagree with this statement.  I think Grigson does understand that the interior of the OL is important - the Colts run game is poor and Luck takes too many hits.  Grigson knows that the interior is largely responsible for these issues. I just think that he hasn't been successful with fixing the problem (not to mention the drafty position).  He's had 3 drafts and only 2012 has been graded an A.  We will find out this season how successful 2013 was - Werner, Thornton, and Holmes have huge opportunities. Mewhort will get a chance to put his stamp on 2014.  I know I'm covering old ground re: Grigson.  I'm just not impressed with him.

Those aren't my thoughts, those are from Grigsons own comments. Go back and read the Kevin Bowen article on the Shipley re-signing and his thoughts on signing Incognito.

[SOMDColtsfan]

Please don't overlook Ted Thompson in your widespread criticism about poor GM work in the NFL....unless you want to look myopically at only the Colts.  

 

Green Bay came to the 2014 season expecting to start completely unproven J.C. Tretter (drafted one pick after Holmes) who spent most of his rookie season on the shelf.  Now he is on IR and they will open tonight on the road in Seattle with this year's 5th round pick snapping the ball to a future hall of famer.  Could the similarities be any closer to our own situation?  Is Grigson neglectful and Thompson is not?  Please consider that Thompson knowingly put himself in this spot by letting an effective center from last year's squad sign with the Bucs for a modest FA contract.

I heard them mention tonight the starting center hadn't taken any preseason snaps with the 1st team offense, yeah that's about as similar as it gets.

[SOMDColtsfan]

To answer your question, no, I thought Holmes would be the starter. The only reason he might not be is because of a short term injury. Injuries happen. (No, this has nothing to do with Holmes' previous ankle injury. It's the other ankle. If we had signed Alex Mack and his ankle was rolled up on, he'd be questionable right now.) It's one thing to be frustrated, but it's another to lose all perspective. Even if Holmes misses the opener, that's just one game.

 

Also, in March, it looked like Phil Costa would be the primary center backup. And everyone hated that idea. Around the same time, people were still moaning about how we shouldn't have traded Shipley. Even you say in this post that he should never have been traded (by the way, we traded Shipley for a pick, not David Reed; that was the Delone Carter trade). Now Shipley's back. I don't understand what the beef is with this move. Whether it's someone else's backup or our own backup, he's been working all offseason, and he was better as a spot starter for us at center than he was as a full time starter at guard for the Ravens. I am amazed at how this move sparks complaint.

 

Do you want Grigson to have starting caliber backups at every offensive line position? When Grigson said after that draft that you can look at half the rosters around the league and not see a full time backup at center, did you do any research to confirm that statement? Again, perspective.

 

And really, if you want to complain, if it makes you feel better, if you think your viewpoint is legitimate, fine. Carry on. I disagree, but go ahead. I just don't understand how it is that you've determined prior to Week 1 that the offensive line won't be improved this season. Especially when your primary complaint right now is that Holmes might miss the opener, and we might have to start a player that you wish we had kept and started all last season.

Supe..this has been building inside me for awhile, as I`m sure you can tell lol. I have flashbacks of Edgerin James getting stuffed against the Patriots and McGinnist running off the field rubbing our noses in it.. 3rd and 1 against the Saints in the Super Bowl. Just examples. I want that feeling of when the Colts ran the ball down the Pats throats and Addai scored, Saturday pancake blocked his man in the AFC championship game. Impose some will on people. Its not all about "todays" Colts, which maybe I am off track and wrong on. I`m just so sick of entering every year with the same motto and same analysis from outside sources. "Big question marks for Colts..Offensive line" Yet we are stacked at WR, overflowing with talent and always seem to be adding more. I want a dominant O line. The Colts spent 16 games last year trying to become a running team. The Patriots on the other hand entered the playoffs and became one in 2 games and ran the ball down our throats? That was sickening..I want to see the Colts be able to do that if they want. So yeah patience isn't my strong suit but its been this way a long time with the Colts, which is what I tried to convey in earlier comments. Ive said my peace and hopefully for everybody`s sake I am wrong  

[Superman]

Supe..this has been building inside me for awhile, as I`m sure you can tell lol. I have flashbacks of Edgerin James getting stuffed against the Patriots and McGinnist running off the field rubbing our noses in it.. 3rd and 1 against the Saints in the Super Bowl. Just examples. I want that feeling of when the Colts ran the ball down the Pats throats and Addai scored, Saturday pancake blocked his man in the AFC championship game. Impose some will on people. Its not all about "todays" Colts, which maybe I am off track and wrong on. I`m just so sick of entering every year with the same motto and same analysis from outside sources. "Big question marks for Colts..Offensive line" Yet we are stacked at WR, overflowing with talent and always seem to be adding more. I want a dominant O line. The Colts spent 16 games last year trying to become a running team. The Patriots on the other hand entered the playoffs and became one in 2 games and ran the ball down our throats? That was sickening..I want to see the Colts be able to do that if they want. So yeah patience isn't my strong suit but its been this way a long time with the Colts, which is what I tried to convey in earlier comments. Ive said my peace and hopefully for everybody`s sake I am wrong  

 

Doesn't matter what we did this offseason, the same stuff about the offensive line would be said by the pundits.

 

The reality is that it takes time to build a good offensive line. Even if you go sign the best guys available, they have to learn to play together, and that takes a little bit of time, especially in the run game. (The Pats didn't just turn on their rushing attack in the playoffs. They averaged over 200 yards/game in the last two games of the season, and had several other dominant rushing games last year.) So no matter what, the questions about our line would prevail.

 

Those questions are fair. What I think is unfair is the insistence now, days before the first game, that the offensive line won't be good. We won't know much about the offensive line until probably a month from now, especially in the run game. Why not wait until then -- or at least Sunday night -- to start making proclamations?

 

And overall, 35 games into this new regime, we're ahead of schedule already. This year, we all hope for improvement in critical areas, but you don't overhaul your roster and get rid of every single flaw in just two seasons. 

 

I also disagree with your characterization of how the team is put together so far. We're stacked at WR because it's easy to add WRs and get them on the field. It's not as easy to develop young linemen. It's not due to neglect. There's been some mistakes, and we've been dogged by injuries, but unless you choose to ignore the moves that have been made, you can't conclude that the line has been neglected. Deciding not to go out and sign a bunch of linemen because you have some minor injuries isn't neglect. It's roster management.