I would take a total different approach to the preseason with the Colts

[BlueShoe]

Granted my idea will likely never happen, but this is something I have thought about for quite a few years, and who better to share my thoughts with than other fellow Colts fans?

 

I believe NFL teams get it right by not playing starters in week 4 of the preseason. I also believe teams get it right with how week 3 is approached, by using it as a measuring stick and also a fine tuning tool to get the starters ready.

 

The changes I would make are simple. Why play the third and fourth team at all? It doesn’t make much sense really. Most of the players will not make the team and the experience is very valuable for the actual second team.

 

My approach would be to play my starters for a short period of time in weeks 1 and 2, and then play the second string the entire rest of the way. In week 3, I would play my starters through the first half and have them open the third quarter. Then I would finish week 3 with the second team.

 

In week 4, I would play my second team the entire way. If the third and fourth stringers want to play then they can earn a spot on the second team.

 

Will we take more chances with players getting hurt? Sure we will. However, the experience that a second teamer gets will be worth the risks, because we never know when it will be next man up.

 

I am sure this idea will receive some scrutiny. That said, really think about it before responding.

[CR91]

because if their third string now they can be promoted to second team and then maybe become a starter. look at zach kerr. by your approach we would have never realize he can actually play

[BlueShoe]

because if their third string now they can be promoted to second team and then maybe become a starter. look at zach kerr. by your approach we would have never realize he can actually play

 

Not sure what you mean. Kerr would be on the second team.

[lollygagger8]

After last night, I'd say just leave at halftime. 

 

 

 

 

I really thought about it. 

[Narcosys]

because if their third string now they can be promoted to second team and then maybe become a starter. look at zach kerr. by your approach we would have never realize he can actually play

Yup, that about sums it up.

[BlueShoe]

After last night, I'd say just leave at halftime. 

 

 

It is embarrassing for some of those players to wear the Colts Shield. 

[Coffeedrinker]

There's a problem with the math to that approach.  1st string O -11 player, 2nd string O 11 players, 1st string D 11 players, 2nd string D 11 players plus three for ST.  That equals 47 players so there would be 6 players on your team that have not played in a preseason game.

 

And also it prevents someone from working there way into the 2nd string or to the starter role.  Preseaon games are for seeing how well the players take what they have been learning in practice and applying it to a game situation.  You can't do that if you don't play the game.

[Narcosys]

Not sure what you mean. Kerr would be on the second team.

How? How does he earn a spot on the second team without actually playing a game to better evaluate his skills. He currently isn't second string, and wouldn't earn a spot on the second string just by playing a few practices.

[BlueShoe]

There's a problem with the math to that approach.  1st string O -11 player, 2nd string O 11 players, 1st string D 11 players, 2nd string D 11 players plus three for ST.  That equals 47 players so there would be 6 players on your team that have not played in a preseason game.

 

And also it prevents someone from working there way into the 2nd string or to the starter role.  Preseaon games are for seeing how well the players take what they have been learning in practice and applying it to a game situation.  You can't do that if you don't play the game.

 

Players will be injured, and this will move players up from the second team to the first team, and third team to the second team. 

 

Again, the benefits of doing it the way we are do not outweigh the benefits of getting players who will actually make the team valuable experience. 

[BlueShoe]

How? How does he earn a spot on the second team without actually playing a game to better evaluate his skills. He currently isn't second string, and wouldn't earn a spot on the second string just by playing a few practices.

 

In what world is Kerr not on the second team? He has been on the second team for quite some time now.

[CR91]

Not sure what you mean. Kerr would be on the second team.

 

kerr started as a fourth teamer just like any other UDFA. he worked his butt off to climb to third string and his play in the preseason gave him the opportunity to play with the second and first string

[CR91]

After last night, I'd say just leave at halftime. 

 

 

 

 

I really thought about it. 

 

its kinda like when you go to your son's football game and you know their not very good and their playing the team that won the state championship. you know their gonna lose by like 50 points, but you stay to support him

[BlueShoe]

kerr started as a fourth teamer just like any other UDFA. he worked his butt off to climb to third string and his play in the preseason gave him the opportunity to play with the second and first string

 

Yep, and he did most of that in training camp. That is what camp is for.

 

If there is a position that is up in the air between 2 players then alternate them with the second team until the decision is clear. The picture will be painted. Plus they will get playing time with better players around them, which offers a better opportunity to showcase their talents. 

[lollygagger8]

its kinda like when you go to your son's football game and you know their not very good and their playing the team that won the state championship. you know their gonna lose by like 50 points, but you stay to support him

 

Supporting a child of yours > Watching grown * men stink up the field

[Narcosys]

In what world is Kerr not on the second team? He has been on the second team for quite some time now.

Obviously you don't know how udfa works.

[BlueShoe]

Obviously you don't know how udfa works.

 

Obviously you are making presumptions that are not accurate.

 

Want to try again or is this the path we are going to go down?

[Coffeedrinker]

Players will be injured, and this will move players up from the second team to the first team, and third team to the second team. 

 

Again, the benefits of doing it the way we are do not outweigh the benefits of getting players who will actually make the team valuable experience. 

I disagree.  I don't think there is any benefit to doing it the way you suggest.  Again preseason is to see how well players can take what they've learned and apply it on the field.  With your method, almost half the roster would never get a chance to show that unless there is an injury and that 1st or 2nd string player gets injured before the first preseason game.  And then you are setting back your team in two ways, one you are losing a player that has the "experience" from the preseason games and you are putting someone in that has no experience in a game at all.

[Smonroe]

Granted my idea will likely never happen, but this is something I have thought about for quite a few years, and who better to share my thoughts with than other fellow Colts fans?

 

I believe NFL teams get it right by not playing starters in week 4 of the preseason. I also believe teams get it right with how week 3 is approached, by using it as a measuring stick and also a fine tuning tool to get the starters ready.

 

The changes I would make are simple. Why play the third and fourth team at all? It doesn’t make much sense really. Most of the players will not make the team and the experience is very valuable for the actual second team.

 

My approach would be to play my starters for a short period of time in weeks 1 and 2, and then play the second string the entire rest of the way. In week 3, I would play my starters through the first half and have them open the third quarter. Then I would finish week 3 with the second team.

 

In week 4, I would play my second team the entire way. If the third and fourth stringers want to play then they can earn a spot on the second team.

 

Will we take more chances with players getting hurt? Sure we will. However, the experience that a second teamer gets will be worth the risks, because we never know when it will be next man up.

 

I am sure this idea will receive some scrutiny. That said, really think about it before responding.

 

Interesting.  As others have pointed out, the first through fourth team guys will change based on practice, injury, etc.  Teams that are rebuilding need to see everyone.  And teams like ours need to see backups working with starters, or in specific situations.

 

Personally, I'm for eliminating the fourth game or at least not charging anyone to see it.  It's not an NFL product by any stretch of the imagination.

[Coffeedrinker]

Yep, and he did most of that in training camp. That is what camp is for.

 

If there is a position that is up in the air between 2 players then alternate them with the second team until the decision is clear. The picture will be painted. Plus they will get playing time with better players around them, which offers a better opportunity to showcase their talents. 

So what you're saying is that if there is a question about who would fall where at a position then both players should play in the game at different times.  Brilliant but that is kind of what they do now.

[BlueShoe]

I disagree.  I don't think there is any benefit to doing it the way you suggest.  Again preseason is to see how well players can take what they've learned and apply it on the field.  With your method, almost half the roster would never get a chance to show that unless there is an injury and that 1st or 2nd string player gets injured before the first preseason game.  And then you are setting back your team in two ways, one you are losing a player that has the "experience" from the preseason games and you are putting someone in that has no experience in a game at all.

 

I see your point, but I do not agree. I believe that the most import thing we can do is get the payers who will actually make the team very valuable playing time and experience.

 

There would be positions that we are not certain of, and players that we want to take a closer look at. We can alternate them in with the 2's and take a closer look.

[ProblChld32]

Yea there are something we like to call Late round our Undrafted Gems who show out during those games. had we applied your logic we wouldnt get the opportunity to see these guys perform.

[BlueShoe]

So what you're saying is that if there is a question about who would fall where at a position then both players should play in the game at different times.  Brilliant but that is kind of what they do now.

 

That is not how they do it now.

[Jason_]

personally I'd like to see a little more mix and match.  Instead of playing first team together, second team together, etc..do some mixing and matching.  Give Harnish a couple of drives playing behind the 1st team OL.  Give some of the 2nd/3rd team WRs some time playing with Luck etc etc.  Have guys like Burley, Price and Purifoy playing time with the other 1st team defense and not just in sub packages.  That kind of thing.

[Superman]

Interesting idea, though lacking in execution a little bit.

 

Here's my idea: Cut the preseason in half, but encourage teams to set up a couple joint practices and maybe some night scrimmages with other teams, open to the public. Some of them do this already, but not all (and not the Colts). Expand the active rosters to 60, game day rosters to 50. All cuts are done after the second preseason game.

 

Then you can start the season the third week in August. Keep a 16 game schedule, but stretch it out over 19 weeks, giving each team three bye weeks. And one of those bye weeks comes the week before the mandatory Thursday game.

 

I don't think four preseason games are necessary anymore. It seems like a waste. You can still get your fringe guys plenty of reps without giving them the entire fourth game (and most of the first game). The fans would also get a better product in preseason.

[BlueShoe]

Interesting idea, though lacking in execution a little bit.

 

Here's my idea: Cut the preseason in half, but encourage teams to set up a couple joint practices and maybe some night scrimmages with other teams, open to the public. Some of them do this already, but not all (and not the Colts). Expand the active rosters to 60, game day rosters to 50. All cuts are done after the second preseason game.

 

Then you can start the season the third week in August. Keep a 16 game schedule, but stretch it out over 19 weeks, giving each team three bye weeks. And one of those bye weeks comes the week before the mandatory Thursday game.

 

I don't think four preseason games are necessary anymore. It seems like a waste. You can still get your fringe guys plenty of reps without giving them the entire fourth game (and most of the first game). The fans would also get a better product in preseason.

 

I like it.

 

I would go further with the roster expansion, although I would be happier with 60 and dressing 50, than the way it is now. 

 

I really like the idea of a bye week before the mandatory Thursday night game. And I also like spreading the season out with more bye weeks.

 

Good stuff there man! 

[Narcosys]

Obviously you are making presumptions that are not accurate.

Want to try again or is this the path we are going to go down?

You talk of Kerr like he was a 2nd stringer from day one on the team. Oblivious to the fact he was an udfa who used these pre season games to prove himself and move up. On top of that, ant 3rd and 4th stringers would never move up. To think they can use a training camp alone to move up is ignorant.

So how is my presumption wrong, or are you just blatantly ignoring facts?

[BlueShoe]

You talk of Kerr like he was a 2nd stringer from day one on the team. Oblivious to the fact he was an udfa who used these pre season games to prove himself and move up. On top of that, ant 3rd and 4th stringers would never move up. To think they can use a training camp alone to move up is ignorant.

So how is my presumption wrong, or are you just blatantly ignoring facts?

 

You really need to stop making things up. 

 

Kerr was playing with the second team in the first preseason game so he made his mark in camp which is how it works.

 

Coaches have a very good idea of the players they have in camp.

[CR91]

Supporting a child of yours > Watching grown * men stink up the field

 

you still have to support the shoe

[BlueShoe]

you still have to support the shoe

 

Yep. No matter how dreadful it was to watch. 

 

Last nights game made me think about an infamous moment in NFL history. 

 

When Bucs coach John Mckay was asked what he thought of his team's execution, his respnse was "I'm in favor of it."

[lollygagger8]

you still have to support the shoe

 

LOL. Just because I commented on how bad the 3rd/4th stringers are (who won't even make the team) doesn't mean I don't support the shoe. Cmon man. 

[Narcosys]

You really need to stop making things up.

Kerr was playing with the second team in the first preseason game so he made his mark in camp which is how it works.

Coaches have a very good idea of the players they have in camp.

He was playing by default because of injuries. He didn't start of with 2nd team. http://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/8/26/6069861/zach-kerr-playing-and-dancing-his-way-on-to-the-colts-roster

Anything else? Still haven't addressed all the other players that prove themselves more in games than camp. It's different playing other teams than your own.

[BlueShoe]

He was playing by default because of injuries. He didn't start of with 2nd team. http://www.stampedeblue.com/2014/8/26/6069861/zach-kerr-playing-and-dancing-his-way-on-to-the-colts-roster

Anything else? Still haven't addressed all the other players that prove themselves more in games than camp. It's different playing other teams than your own.

 

I am glad you are getting caught up on our conversation. It is nice to see you learning something. Now that you are educated that Kerr did in fact play with the second team in the first preseason game, we can move on.

 

A guy like Kerr was definitely noticed in camp. He was going to play with the second team.

 

You still have not made any good counter arguments in this thread. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. ;)

[Narcosys]

I am glad you are getting caught up on our conversation. It is nice to see you learning something. Now that you are educated that Kerr did in fact play with the second team in the first preseason game, we can move on.

A guy like Kerr was definitely noticed in camp. He was going to play with the second team.

You still have not made any good counter arguments in this thread. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. ;)

Again your assuming he would have played with the second team without injuries. You cannot prove that in any way. Without those injuries he may never have gotten a chance and by your idea would never have played a game. My point was that he was not a second teamer, which was correct. just cause your playing with 2nd team because of injuries does not mean you are a 2nd teamer. Not even close in any way. That's like saying Rogers and Whalen are starter material last year just cause they were starting because of injuries So again without those injuries Kerr remains a 3rd teamer. And how can you say I have provided no good counter argument. The whole point was to say that with your plan, a 3rd and 4th teamer would never get a chance to show anything except in practice which is nothing like a real game. without those games for them to play they can't necessarily prove themselves.

IDk how you don't get the difference between camp and games. so be it man, have at your fantasy. I'm done.

[That Guy]

I understand your scenario, but there are a few reasons why I do not like it.

 

1.  UDFAs  like the Colts because we have a reputation for giving them a fair chance.  This scenario would take away from that reputation.  Lower tier players see game time as a chance to posibly earn a job with another team.  Taking away their game time shoots that chance down.

 

2.  Practices are not the best way to evaluate a prospects skills.  Our staff needs game film to see what our lower tier players can do.

 

3.  It goes against the whole "Cauldron of Competition" that Pagano and Grigson have tried to set up. 

 

4.  The fluidity of our depth chart makes this scenario tough to pull off.

[BlueShoe]

Again your assuming he would have played with the second team without injuries. You cannot prove that in any way. Without those injuries he may never have gotten a chance and by your idea would never have played a game. 

 

I am going to stop you right there.

 

Without these injuries, he would not make the team, because he would not beat out the players that were injured.

 

His talent would have still been noticed in camp, and he would have likely been giving a spot on the PS.

 

The only reason he has a shot of making the 53 is due to injuries. 

[crazycolt1]

Granted my idea will likely never happen, but this is something I have thought about for quite a few years, and who better to share my thoughts with than other fellow Colts fans?

 

I believe NFL teams get it right by not playing starters in week 4 of the preseason. I also believe teams get it right with how week 3 is approached, by using it as a measuring stick and also a fine tuning tool to get the starters ready.

 

The changes I would make are simple. Why play the third and fourth team at all? It doesn’t make much sense really. Most of the players will not make the team and the experience is very valuable for the actual second team.

 

My approach would be to play my starters for a short period of time in weeks 1 and 2, and then play the second string the entire rest of the way. In week 3, I would play my starters through the first half and have them open the third quarter. Then I would finish week 3 with the second team.

 

In week 4, I would play my second team the entire way. If the third and fourth stringers want to play then they can earn a spot on the second team.

 

Will we take more chances with players getting hurt? Sure we will. However, the experience that a second teamer gets will be worth the risks, because we never know when it will be next man up.

 

I am sure this idea will receive some scrutiny. That said, really think about it before responding.

So how does a 3rd or 4th stringer earn a spot if he is not in the game? Pre season is where the coaches look at the bubble players to see if they need to be on the 53 man roster, practice squad or cut. There is a reason that most teams use the system they are using. Injuries have always been part of the game and will not stop no matter what is done. The human body is not designed to play football.

[Coffeedrinker]

I see your point, but I do not agree. I believe that the most import thing we can do is get the payers who will actually make the team very valuable playing time and experience.

 

There would be positions that we are not certain of, and players that we want to take a closer look at. We can alternate them in with the 2's and take a closer look.

 

 

That is not how they do it now.

That is exactly what they do now.  It's just in the first 2 preseason games there are 90 players (68 if you want to dismiss those that are considered starters) that they need to look.  Those that are most likely to make the team based on training camp are rotated in first, those that are least likely to make the team are rotated in last.  The third preseason game is a dress rehearsal for the starters and the last preseason game is to get a final look at the fringe players.

 

And through it all you still have not addressed the issue that preseason games are so coaches can see how players implement what they learned in practice.  How do you do that for players that don't get in the game?

[BlueShoe]

So how does a 3rd or 4th stringer earn a spot if he is not in the game? Pre season is where the coaches look at the bubble players to see if they need to be on the 53 man roster, practice squad or cut. There is a reason that most teams use the system they are using. Injuries have always been part of the game and will not stop no matter what is done. The human body is not designed to play football.

 

They would have to win it in camp or be ready if an injury occurs. 

[BlueShoe]

That is exactly what they do now.  It's just in the first 2 preseason games there are 90 players (68 if you want to dismiss those that are considered starters) that they need to look.  Those that are most likely to make the team based on training camp are rotated in first, those that are least likely to make the team are rotated in last.  The third preseason game is a dress rehearsal for the starters and the last preseason game is to get a final look at the fringe players.

 

And through it all you still have not addressed the issue that preseason games are so coaches can see how players implement what they learned in practice.  How do you do that for players that don't get in the game?

 

My idea is not the same way they do it now. 

 

Players who don't get in the game - sorry about their luck. In my mind, it is just not worth it. Get the second team ready to step up and don't worry about the fodder. I know it sounds cold, but it is a business of fielding the best football team. Somewhere along the way teams have forgotten that. 

[braveheartcolt]

Tom Brady = fodder