Logan Mankins traded to Tampa Bay

[jvan1973]

Too bad these people have all been saying it for two years.

Just accept that you're wrong, and move on.

Nah, I'll take expert opinions. Thanks. All Pro last four years.

[sweetsurrender]

This is what the Patriots do - move on from players a year or two so they can get something good for the long term and save the cap room. It is a surprise on one hand but not for the Patriots. They must believe they have a quality lineman or two to replace him.

 

And what is up with Tampa Bay and them? Lots of deals the last couple of years. Wonder if this was pay back for Revis.

[jvan1973]

This is what the Patriots do - move on from players a year or two so they can get something good for the long term and save the cap room. It is a surprise on one hand but not for the Patriots. They must believe they have a quality lineman or two to replace him.

And what is up with Tampa Bay and them? Lots of deals the last couple of years. Wonder if this was pay back for Revis.

The bucs cut revis, then the pats signed him

[Superman]

JHC.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Go to Patriots Planet. Ask the people there what the opinion of Mankins has been the past 2-3 years.

Please do. If so, you will learn precisely what I've posted .

 

I have no idea what I'm talking about? I don't know what kind of player Logan Mankins is, of all people? That's laughable, but whatever.

 

You're acting like I have some kind of agenda here. I don't care what this trade means, I gain nothing from defending it or disagreeing with it. I actually understand it, and think it makes a ton of sense for the Pats, and I'm giving Belichick the benefit of the doubt by assuming that they have a viable replacement in the building already (although there's not much proof that that's the case, but Josh Kline has been good).

 

You're the one with a vested interest in this being a good trade. And you're the one who has a record of turning on former Patriots as if they're just "the help" that got caught trying to steal the good silverware.

 

But again, whatever. I'm glad you're happy with the trade. And at least you have your health...

[ViriLudant]

Supes, you were the who claimed that Patriot fans haven't been down on Mankins.

I know that's 100% untrue, and have told you how you can discover the truth for yourself.

It's a good trade for both teams because, regardless of his downward trend, Mankins is still much better than anything TB has.

[Guest nflfan014]

One thing non-Pats fans like to do is criticize Pats players when they're on the team, and when they leave, make them sound like first ballot HOFers.  That being said, I'm not going to say that anyone saw this trade coming or bash Mankins on the way out.

 

I do think it's good that they at least got back a much needed 2nd tight end that caught 50 passes in his rookie year on a below average team.  NFL Network is making it sound like they released Mankins and got nothing in return.

[Shane Bond]

I love this Logan Mankins move as an opposing fan. This is what Bill does. I think he is building a strong team for the future with young players.

Don't be surprised, if Garapollo is the starting QB by next year.

[Guest nflfan014]

"Don't be surprised, if Garapollo is the starting QB by next year."

 

You'd like that a lot lol.

[-JJ-]

belichick has always said its better to get rid of a guy a year early than a year late.

 

Mankins is a beast of an LG, one of the best in the business,

<snip>

 

yep agree and typical BB. There is the flipside where keeping the player "may" lead to a championship but that's unknown and what pat fans get from this style of BB is a top team every year. He keeps the wheels moving as opposed to teams who hang on to players and then end up in a long rebuild. 

 

Can't have your cake and eat it too

[southwest1]

First of all, wow. Didn't see this coming. I'm pretty shocked, especially since the line has had some questions in camp thus far. Mankins is by most accounts a great player and he brought a lot of attitude to the unit. They have to feel pretty comfortable with what they have behind him to make this move. 

 

Second of all, looking at this link, there was no way his 2015 and 2016 numbers were going to work out. They probably would have paid him this year but then they would have been in a position next year where they would have had to cut him. For 2015 he'd have been a 33-year-old guard with a $11M cap hit. They're not saving all that much this year but $7M in 2015 and 2016 is a significant chunk of money to spend elsewhere.

 

I'm wondering if either of these possibilities are factoring in:

 

1. Possibly trying to free up money so they can resign Revis long-term. 

2. Possibly trying to free up money to do something this year (less likely). 

 

Either way I'm very surprised. No one who follows the team could have told you they saw this coming. He was by far their most experienced lineman and a team captain. This is a little like the Richard Seymour trade, or including Vrabel in the Cassel trade.

 

Wish him luck in Tampa.

 

Oh, and Tim Wright? Rutgers guy. That's the answer right there, lol...

I thought you said in another thread that it's a Boston fan thing to cut players loose very easily & not really care about them that much once they depart Foxboro & go somewhere else? Just messing with you man!

 

You're a good guy who always wishes former NE players well on their new squads across the NFL. Well maybe except for WR Chad Johnson who you accurately said needed a "pop up children's playbook to grasp your offense" & still probably wouldn't be able to master it even then. LOL! 

 

Logan Mankins was an anchor on that line. I hope BB knows what he's doing. Well, he did not resign RB LeGarrette Blount so clearly the Grey Hoodie to quote a Kenny Rogers song "knows when to hold em & when to fold em" right. So, what in world am I concerned for right? That NE ship is smooth sailing right now like it almost always is. 

 

Bill is a master at cutting guys loose with some tread left on the tires & getting good draft compensation in the end. We in INDY under GM Bill Polian held onto to aging players too long in some cases. Bill knows when to cut guys loose & slide new ones in. I marvel at how he does this fluidly & consistently. It's very impressive actually. 

[amfootball]

The bucs cut revis, then the pats signed him

While that is technically true, Bill had been talking with Schiano about Revis during the season and was greasing the skids with Revis to come to NE which is why Revis signed with the Pats literally days after being released from the Bucs. And then of course you have the history with Bill and Schiano and Rutgers. While I don't think the Mankins trade is pay back per se, it is obvious that the Pats were inclined to work a deal with Tampa given the history there.

[amfootball]

<snip>

 

yep agree and typical BB. There is the flipside where keeping the player "may" lead to a championship but that's unknown and what pat fans get from this style of BB is a top team every year. He keeps the wheels moving as opposed to teams who hang on to players and then end up in a long rebuild. 

 

Can't have your cake and eat it too

I was thinking last night how much I miss Al Davis. He may have given us a number one for Mankins like he did for Seymour. ;)

[JamesGallegos]

The New England Patriots have six-time Pro Bowl guard Logan Mankins to the Tampa, both team announced the deal in separate releases afternoon.  Logan is having everything we always want in a football player. 

[GoPats]

Wow..  Underwood was cut and re-signed all year long, multiple times.  It is a common practice that the Patriots and some other teams use, and it doesn't matter if its a regular season game, playoff game or Super Bowl, they have consistently made roster adjustments based on their needs and gameplan for the upcoming opponent.

 

You love to spin things in a negative light constantly and make the Patriots out to be these evil monsters lol... You're right, it is just business, because thats what the NFL is, A BUSINESS. 

 

 

That's RMD's schtick... I swear, Bob Kraft could jump into the Charles River in January to save a busload full of nuns and orphaned children, and RMD would post something negative about it.

 

Anyway...

 

As others have pointed out, this came down to money. I'm not saying that Mankins was no longer one of the better LGs in the league, but the Patriots will miss his attitude and leadership a bit more than they're going to miss his play on the field, I think. He's a great player still but is definitely on that back nine. 

 

So with that said, a question for everyone in the thread... if Mankins was a free agent this past offseason, and was demanding the type of salary that he's getting in 2014, would you have wanted the Colts (or whichever team you root for) to sign him? A 32-year-old interior lineman?

 

Don't forget, Mankins held out in 2010 and got a nice extension out of it. We're now into the portion of that contract that was back-loaded. You can tell the most important positions in today's NFL by their average salaries. Teams pay a premium these days for:

 

- Quarterbacks

- Cornerbacks

- DEs/OLBs (in other words, pass rushers)

- LTs (to block those pass rushers in a predominantly right-handed-QB league)

 

Of course all line positions are important for pass protection, but having a premiere LG on your roster is only minimally helpful in today's league. The running game has been de-emphasized (reflected in what RBs are being paid now). And in the passing game, the Patriots had issues last year with pressure up the middle anyway. 

 

As a fans it's always tough to see a guy like Mankins leave. I don't pay his salary. I don't manage the team's cap. It's happened plenty of times here, and even in more dramatic fashion (Lawyer Milloy being cut a week before the '03 season was even more of a surprise than this was). They will greatly miss his leadership, I'm sure, but I'm pretty confident that they'll be OK with the guys they've got. 

 

It's very difficult to argue with results. I've been a Patriots fan for a long time and the run they're on is sort of unprecedented, even in the pre-salary-cap eras. Consider the quick team resume in the 13 seasons since 2001:

 

- 3 SB titles

- 5 SB appearances

- 5 AFC titles

- 8 AFC title game appearances

- 11 playoff seasons in 13 years, and one of the two years they missed was '08, without Brady, yet they still finished 11-5

- 11 division titles in 13 years

 

I don't remember any teams through the 80s or 90s who sustained it for this long. While Belichick's way of doing business can be unemotional and cutthroat, it's very hard to say that he handles this poorly. 

[TAPLOOK]

Mankin's was a great Patriot. He will be missed and remembered. Best of luck to him in Tampa. Belichick is the best coach in the league. In Bill We Trust. 

Edited August 27, 2014 by 21isSuperman

[TAPLOOK]

I love this Logan Mankins move as an opposing fan. This is what Bill does. I think he is building a strong team for the future with young players.

Don't be surprised, if Garapollo is the starting QB by next year.

That some good stuff.

[That Guy]

There is no need to hate on the Pats fans over this.  They are acting in a very similar manner to how we all acted when Jeff Saturday was allowed to leave for Green Bay.

[jvan1973]

There is no need to hate on the Pats fans over this. They are acting in a very similar manner to how we all acted when Jeff Saturday was allowed to leave for Green Bay.

Jeff Saturday was a free agent and he didn't make it through the season in green bay. Not even close to the same thing.

I have no problem with the trade. The pats needed to clear up some cap room for next season. They did that and gained a 4th and a pretty good player. But to say Mankins can't play anymore after he was an Allpro last year isnt being honest

[That Guy]

Jeff Saturday was a free agent (He was still allowed to leave.  Being traded and not being re-signed are both ways for a team to say "See ya!")

 

and he didn't make it through the season in green bay (irrelevant; we don't know that Mankins will last a whole season in Tampa Bay)

 

Not even close to the same thing. (two players, both considered the greatest lineman on their team for a solid decade, being sent packing while their fans try to convince themselves that they're better off without them; and you don't see any similarity?)

I have no problem with the trade. The pats needed to clear up some cap room for next season. They did that and gained a 4th and a pretty good player. But to say Mankins can't play anymore after he was an Allpro last year isnt being honest

 

Jeff Saturday was only a year removed from being a second team all-pro (in other words, one of the two best centers in the league) when we let him go.  When he was gone, the Colts fans almost unanimously agreed that he had declined.  Who's to say that the Pats fans aren't correct on this one?  Maybe Belichick pulled the trigger a year early on this move, but that's what he always does.  How has Mankins graded out this preseason?

[Superman]

Supes, you were the who claimed that Patriot fans haven't been down on Mankins.

I know that's 100% untrue, and have told you how you can discover the truth for yourself.

It's a good trade for both teams because, regardless of his downward trend, Mankins is still much better than anything TB has.

I didn't say no Pats fans have been critical of Mankins. I said I very much doubt that Pats fans in general were arguing against his inclusion as an All Pro or a Pro Bowler last season.

But it's fine. Good trade. Hope your replacement guard gets the job done.

[Sports Central1]

Tim Wright seems like a stud TE...

 

Wright is a 6-foot-4, 220-pound tight end who last season had one of the best rookie campaigns of any player at the position. He hauled in 54 passes for 571 yards and 5 touchdowns last season, trailing only receiver Vincent Jackson for the Buccaneers lead in yards (1,224) and receiving scores (7)...

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/who-new-patriots-tight-end-tim-wright

 

Now imagine what he can do in a Pats' Brady offense.  He's bigger than Aaron Hernandez.  So now the Pats can bring back their big two-tight end set tandem.

[IndyFan93]

Since we can't post links to other boards, I will just copy/paste some comments:

"Snarling at the guy opposite you does not equal good protection. Mankins definitely not the player he usta be. Hope he has big fun with the Bucs, though, but we don't need all the penalties he was starting to make a habit."

"I don't even care about the return (and Wright's a really nice piece coming back, potentially). Mankins is off the cap and GONE, that overrated *."

So he was great, eh?

"Fact: Mankins allowed 11 sacks (or 28% of the entire 40 sack total) in 2014. #seeya"

 

Of course Pats fans are going to say that after the trade. How about you show us some of these comments from 2 years ago about how overrated he is, and only went to the pro bowl because of his reputation.

[Superman]

According to NFL.com, the Pats asked Mankins to take a pay cut in the offseason, and he declined.

[Shane Bond]

Tim Wright seems like a stud TE...

Wright is a 6-foot-4, 220-pound tight end who last season had one of the best rookie campaigns of any player at the position. He hauled in 54 passes for 571 yards and 5 touchdowns last season, trailing only receiver Vincent Jackson for the Buccaneers lead in yards (1,224) and receiving scores (7)...

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/who-new-patriots-tight-end-tim-wright

Now imagine what he can do in a Pats' Brady offense. He's bigger than Aaron Hernandez. So now the Pats can bring back their big two-tight end set tandem.

There were lot of good offensive players who entered NE with a reputation only to see their career getting stalled.

Let's hold on to the thought of what he can do till we see it.

[southwest1]

Mankin's was a great Patriot. He will be missed and remembered. Best of luck to him in Tampa. Belichick is the best coach in the league. In Bill We Trust. 

Is this a eulogy? Your respect toward him is nice TPLK, but honestly my sarcastic inner voice said  "Really? What time is the funeral at & should I wear a nice suit to the somber event?"

 

My apologies. I knew what you meant once I read it more closely a 2nd time. Lovie Smith will put him to good use & there's no state income tax in Florida meaning Mr. Mankins gets more money in his paycheck too. 

[mycou1992]

Bill Belichick said they are going in the right direction.

[amfootball]

Some more details on the trade. Apparently, the Patriots as far back as Feb were asking Mankins to restructure and he refused not surprisingly given his past history with his contracts, http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/08/27/report-tom-brady-very-upset-about-logan-mankins-trade/

[sweetsurrender]

Some more details on the trade. Apparently, the Patriots as far back as Feb were asking Mankins to restructure and he refused not surprisingly given his past history with his contracts, http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/08/27/report-tom-brady-very-upset-about-logan-mankins-trade/

Makes sense. Mankins was in the same situation as Vince Wilfork in terms of needing to have his deal reworked.

[The Old Crow]

I hate to say it but another great move by Belichick . Nine year player , huge salary, heading on the downside for a young tight end and draft pick. Nice move.

[amfootball]

I hate to say it but another great move by Belichick . Nine year player , huge salary, heading on the downside for a young tight end and draft pick. Nice move.

What I like about it the most is TE was a huge need. All the Pats have is Gronk and Hooman. And Hooman is not a pass catching TE and is also currently injured. I also believe the draft pick is conditional depending on Mankins production. Of course, this is all predicated on the Pats having a quality lineman to take Mankins place. But I have been saying this since last year that I believe the reason the OL looked as bad as it did last year aside from the injuries was the fact that Brady had to hold the ball so long because the receivers were not getting separation. I am hopeful this year given how much better the receiver corp looks that Brady will be able to get the ball out quicker making the job of the Oline easier.

[jvan1973]

What I like about it the most is TE was a huge need. All the Pats have is Gronk and Hooman. And Hooman is not a pass catching TE and is also currently injured. I also believe the draft pick is conditional depending on Mankins production. Of course, this is all predicated on the Pats having a quality lineman to take Mankins place. But I have been saying this since last year that I believe the reason the OL looked as bad as it did last year aside from the injuries was the fact that Brady had to hold the ball so long because the receivers were not getting separation. I am hopeful this year given how much better the receiver corp looks that Brady will be able to get the ball out quicker making the job of the Oline easier.

Do you think BB will play him as a traditional TE? He is tall, but very light for a TE. I can't see him being much of an inline blocker

[ViriLudant]

There were lot of good offensive players who entered NE with a reputation only to see their career getting stalled.

Let's hold on to the thought of what he can do till we see it.

Name one who was in their prime.

[ViriLudant]

Do you think BB will play him as a traditional TE? He is tall, but very light for a TE. I can't see him being much of an inline blocker

No, he'll be the move TE.

[jvan1973]

No, he'll be the move TE.

He still seems light even for a split out TE

[Shane Bond]

The replacement OL better do this job.

 

One of the reasons Brady does what he does is the time he gets in the pocket. Brady is not very good when he doesn't have time.

 

As an opposing fan, Logan Mankins was a nightmare. This cant be a bad news.

 

I am starting to believe Belichick is building for the future ( by signing up lot of young players and keeping them for years ). I can see Garapollo take over soon.

[Shane Bond]

Name one who was in their prime.

Chad Johnson

 

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost

2001 Cincinnati Bengals 12 3 28 329 11.9 28 1

2002 Cincinnati Bengals 16 14 69 1,166 16.9 72 5

2003 Cincinnati Bengals 16 14 90 1,355 15.1 82 10

2004 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 95 1,274 13.4 53 9 4 39 9.8 18 0 1 0

2005 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 97 1,432 14.8 70 9 5 33 6.6 11 0 1 0

2006 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 87 1,369 15.7 74 7 6 24 4.0 8 0 1 1

2007 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 93 1,440 15.5 70 8 6 47 7.8 16 0 2 1

2008 Cincinnati Bengals 13 10 53 540 10.2 26 4

2009 Cincinnati Bengals 16 15 72 1,047 14.5 50 9 3 32 10.7 26 0 2 2

2010 Cincinnati Bengals 14 12 67 831 12.4 42 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

2011 New England Patriots 15 3 15 276 18.4 53 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

Look at this numbers prior to NE and with NE.

 

Grand total of 276 yards. Even his rookie year he had 329.

 

 

Jabar Gaffney

 

2006 NE 11 11 20 142 12.9 33 1 9 0 0

2007 NE 16 36 50 449 12.5 56 5 21 0 0

2008 NE 16 38 65 468 12.3 37 2 26 0 0

2009 DEN 16 54 88 732 13.6 49 2 36 0 0

2010 DEN 16 65 112 875 13.5 50 2 42 1 0

2011 WSH 16 68 115 947 13.9 45 5 50 1 1

 

Look at his numbers after he left the Patriots.

[GoPats]

Do you think BB will play him as a traditional TE? He is tall, but very light for a TE. I can't see him being much of an inline blocker

 

He'll do what Hernandez did. Probably not as well of course. They'll line him up all over the place but they won't ask him to block often. He's actually very similar, physically, to Hernandez. 

 

Gronk is nearly 50 pounds heavier and the in-line TE. They still don't have a lot of depth at the position but they like their FB (James Develin) and he's gotten some reps at TE this camp. They've also been bringing in an extra lineman declaring eligible on heavy formation plays. 

[jvan1973]

He'll do what Hernandez did. Probably not as well of course. They'll line him up all over the place but they won't ask him to block often. He's actually very similar, physically, to Hernandez.

Gronk is nearly 50 pounds heavier and the in-line TE. They still don't have a lot of depth at the position but they like their FB (James Develin) and he's gotten some reps at TE this camp. They've also been bringing in an extra lineman declaring eligible on heavy formation plays.

He is 3" taller and 25 lbs lighter than Hernandez. He seems built more like a WR

[GoPats]

 

I am starting to believe Belichick is building for the future ( by signing up lot of young players and keeping them for years ). I can see Garapollo take over soon.

 

With Mankins it wasn't about his age or performance, it was about his contract. The Patriots don't see his value as being commensurate with what they were paying him. If they were paying him $2-3M/year, he'd probably still be here. 

 

Brady's contract is, by all standards, a bargain for the Patriots, given the caliber of the player. He's signed through age 40. Whether he wants to keep playing after that point or not, he's not going to be looking for a top 5 salary. Watching him for close to 15 years now, he's never seemed that concerned about what he's making. I don't think that will change.

 

Probably helps that he's married to one of the wealthiest women on the planet!

 

Eventually, of course, he will be done. But no one knows how that's going to go down. Belichick would cut his mother if he could save some cap space so I know what you're saying, but I don't think anything is imminent. 

[Shane Bond]

With Mankins it wasn't about his age or performance, it was about his contract. The Patriots don't see his value as being commensurate with what they were paying him. If they were paying him $2-3M/year, he'd probably still be here. 

 

Brady's contract is, by all standards, a bargain for the Patriots, given the caliber of the player. He's signed through age 40. Whether he wants to keep playing after that point or not, he's not going to be looking for a top 5 salary. Watching him for close to 15 years now, he's never seemed that concerned about what he's making. I don't think that will change.

 

Probably helps that he's married to one of the wealthiest women on the planet!

 

Eventually, of course, he will be done. But no one knows how that's going to go down. Belichick would cut his mother if he could save some cap space so I know what you're saying, but I don't think anything is imminent. 

This