Logan Mankins traded to Tampa Bay

[Sports Central1]

In a way this was a brilliant move by Belichick, well it's not rocket science, but it was clever and crafty...

 

Mankins is 32, on the decline of his career.  Mankins I believe was in the top 5 at his position who allowed the most sacks the last 2 years?  Mankins pass protection was getting worse and was overrated.  But Mankins was one of the better guards at run blocking.  Since Tom Brady is a pocket passer and the Pats are a pass first offense Mankins is the type of guard that doesn't benefit the Pats' offense.  He has a HUGE contract.  He refused to restructure his contract for the team.

 

The Pats needed a TE due to the uncertainty of Gronk's health.  Tim Wright had one of the best rookie season's ever for a TE and he's young and he makes around $400,000 instead of $6 mil per year.  He was able to put up BIG numbers only second to Vincent Jackson on a team that doesn't have a great QB or a great offense.

 

To unload Mankins now saves the Pats money so they can resign Revis and McCourty but also start to reorganize and rebuild their o-line sooner rather than later.  And remember, the Pats have a new offensive line coach for the first time in over 30+ years so this new offensive line coach could have persuaded and Belichick to do something.

[GoPats]

He is 3" taller and 25 lbs lighter than Hernandez. He seems built more like a WR

 

My bad, you're right. Read something the other day saying they were physically similar but should know better.  ;)

 

That said, he's still taking that role. He sort of looks like a Shannon Sharpe-type to me. Taller though. He's not going to be a regular blocker. 

[jvan1973]

My bad, you're right. Read something the other day saying they were physically similar but should know better. ;)

That said, he's still taking that role. He sort of looks like a Shannon Sharpe-type to me. Taller though. He's not going to be a regular blocker.

He caught 50 balls from Glennon. In sure BB will find a way to use him

[GoPats]

This 

 

LOL, I hear you. Consider though, there 10 QBs with a higher cap hit than Brady this season. Belichick isn't looking just at raw numbers, he's looking at value relative to the position. Mankins at $10M or whatever it was, was bad value. Good player, but not $10M good. Brady, unless he sharply declines, will be worth every penny they're paying him through the end of his current deal. 

[jvan1973]

In a way this was a brilliant move by Belichick, well it's not rocket science, but it was clever and crafty...

Mankins is 32, on the decline of his career. Mankins I believe was in the top 5 at his position who allowed the most sacks the last 2 years? Mankins pass protection was getting worse and was overrated. But Mankins was one of the better guards at run blocking. Since Tom Brady is a pocket passer and the Pats are a pass first offense Mankins is the type of guard that doesn't benefit the Pats' offense. He has a HUGE contract. He refused to restructure his contract for the team.

The Pats needed a TE due to the uncertainty of Gronk's health. Tim Wright had one of the best rookie season's ever for a TE and he's young and he makes around $400,000 instead of $6 mil per year. He was able to put up BIG numbers only second to Vincent Jackson on a team that doesn't have a great QB or a great offense.

To unload Mankins now saves the Pats money so they can resign Revis and McCourty but also start to reorganize and rebuild their o-line sooner rather than later. And remember, the Pats have a new offensive line coach for the first time in over 30+ years so this new offensive line coach could have persaded and Belichick to do something.

Mankins will still count 4 million on next years cap.

[GoPats]

He caught 50 balls from Glennon. In sure BB will find a way to use him

 

I know right? There should be some mathematical equation you can apply to guys like that. 

 

Supposedly he was struggling in TB's new system and was on the bubble. So he could be decent, could be terrible. 

[Shane Bond]

LOL, I hear you. Consider though, there 10 QBs with a higher cap hit than Brady this season. Belichick isn't looking just at raw numbers, he's looking at value relative to the position. Mankins at $10M or whatever it was, was bad value. Good player, but not $10M good. Brady, unless he sharply declines, will be worth every penny they're paying him through the end of his current deal. 

Sure, Brady will be axed only if his performance drops significantly and Garapollo is showing a lot of promise. Similar to what happend to Montana.

[Sports Central1]

He is 3" taller and 25 lbs lighter than Hernandez. He seems built more like a WR

 

Yeah, he's Antonio Gates' height but lighter and faster.  So if he needs to add weight he's still young enough to.  The Pats got a taller group of TE's and WR's now.

 

I also like what I saw with WR Brian Tyms.  Tyms is suspended the first 4 games of the season if he makes the team.

[amfootball]

Do you think BB will play him as a traditional TE? He is tall, but very light for a TE. I can't see him being much of an inline blocker

No, I don't think so. I think they will move him around. He is light so I would not imagine him as a blocker. They want him for his catching ability. They have Gronk, Hooman and Devlin for blocking. Wright seems like a hybrid in the vein of Hernandez who I never saw as a traditional TE which is what made him so good. He was a mismatch all over the field. I can only hope this Wright is half as good. He has 54 catches with Glennon so I have to think Brady can a lot out of this guy assuming he can pick up the Pats O which is always the biggest obstacle for any new receiver/TE.

[amfootball]

Chad Johnson

 

Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD Att Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost

2001 Cincinnati Bengals 12 3 28 329 11.9 28 1

2002 Cincinnati Bengals 16 14 69 1,166 16.9 72 5

2003 Cincinnati Bengals 16 14 90 1,355 15.1 82 10

2004 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 95 1,274 13.4 53 9 4 39 9.8 18 0 1 0

2005 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 97 1,432 14.8 70 9 5 33 6.6 11 0 1 0

2006 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 87 1,369 15.7 74 7 6 24 4.0 8 0 1 1

2007 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 93 1,440 15.5 70 8 6 47 7.8 16 0 2 1

2008 Cincinnati Bengals 13 10 53 540 10.2 26 4

2009 Cincinnati Bengals 16 15 72 1,047 14.5 50 9 3 32 10.7 26 0 2 2

2010 Cincinnati Bengals 14 12 67 831 12.4 42 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

2011 New England Patriots 15 3 15 276 18.4 53 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

 

Look at this numbers prior to NE and with NE.

 

Grand total of 276 yards. Even his rookie year he had 329.

 

 

Jabar Gaffney

 

2006 NE 11 11 20 142 12.9 33 1 9 0 0

2007 NE 16 36 50 449 12.5 56 5 21 0 0

2008 NE 16 38 65 468 12.3 37 2 26 0 0

2009 DEN 16 54 88 732 13.6 49 2 36 0 0

2010 DEN 16 65 112 875 13.5 50 2 42 1 0

2011 WSH 16 68 115 947 13.9 45 5 50 1 1

 

Look at his numbers after he left the Patriots.

Johnson was way past his prime.

 

Gaffney was our 4th receiver behind Moss, Welker and Stallworth AND was very productive considering the low number of targets just because their is only one football to go around. He was #1 or #2 for the Broncos and Skins.

[GoPats]

Sure, Brady will be axed only if his performance drops significantly and Garapollo is showing a lot of promise. Similar to what happend to Montana.

 

And an injury could change the dynamic drastically, much as it did when Bledsoe went down. 

 

It's one of the things we Patriots fans have to deal with and accept... it's all business in Foxboro. I can't tell you Brady will be different. He's been the only HOF quarterback we've ever had up here. No precedent to point to. 

[chad72]

Isn't the OL coach Scarnecchia retiring after this year for the Patriots? They will miss him, IMO.

[GoPats]

Johnson was way past his prime.

 

Gaffney was our 4th receiver behind Moss, Welker and Stallworth AND was very productive considering the low number of targets just because their is only one football to go around. He was #1 or #2 for the Broncos and Skins.

 

Shane has used Johnson and Gaffney as examples before. With Johnson, the Patriots apparently messed him up so bad that he had to flee north to the CFL.   ;)

 

Seriously though, Ocho's troubles in NE are well-documented. He had difficulty adjusting from a numbers-based play-call system to one that uses terminology instead. If he'd done a single thing after leaving here then yeah, I'd say the Patriots failed to get the most out of him. But it's pretty obvious that he hit that career cliff right about the same time he arrived here. He could not keep up mentally and physically he was in decline. 

 

With Gaffney, Shane seems to not realize that they signed him in October of 2006 as an unrestricted free agent. The Eagles had released him in final cuts. Any team in the NFL could have gotten him and given up nothing at the time. No one wanted him. His career was saved in New England, for all intents and purposes. 

 

Also, Gaffney's 2007 numbers don't mean much; he was playing behind Welker (100+ catches) and Moss (23 TDs). In 2008 Cassel was the QB. He never played a full 16-game season in NE as one of the top two or three options in the passing game. 

 

But whatever.  

[Gavin]

I see Wright being used as a 4th receiver at times being sent in motion in 2, 3 wide sets plenty

[jvan1973]

I see Wright being used as a 4th receiver at times being sent in motion in 2, 3 wide sets plenty

That's what I'm thinking as well. He was a wr in college

[Shane Bond]

Johnson was way past his prime.

 

Gaffney was our 4th receiver behind Moss, Welker and Stallworth AND was very productive considering the low number of targets just because their is only one football to go around. He was #1 or #2 for the Broncos and Skins.

Johnson had 831 yards in 14 games in 2010 just a year prior to 2011. I dont know how you determine "way past his prime".

[Shane Bond]

Shane has used Johnson and Gaffney as examples before. With Johnson, the Patriots apparently messed him up so bad that he had to flee north to the CFL.   ;)

 

Seriously though, Ocho's troubles in NE are well-documented. He had difficulty adjusting from a numbers-based play-call system to one that uses terminology instead. If he'd done a single thing after leaving here then yeah, I'd say the Patriots failed to get the most out of him. But it's pretty obvious that he hit that career cliff right about the same time he arrived here. He could not keep up mentally and physically he was in decline. 

 

With Gaffney, Shane seems to not realize that they signed him in October of 2006 as an unrestricted free agent. The Eagles had released him in final cuts. Any team in the NFL could have gotten him and given up nothing at the time. No one wanted him. His career was saved in New England, for all intents and purposes. 

 

Also, Gaffney's 2007 numbers don't mean much; he was playing behind Welker (100+ catches) and Moss (23 TDs). In 2008 Cassel was the QB. He never played a full 16-game season in NE as one of the top two or three options in the passing game. 

 

But whatever.  

I realize them alright, GoPats.

 

Point is there are WRs who are successful elsewhere not in NE. Its hard to believe a player who was successful all the way and suddenly fail to forget football once he enters NE ( In Chad's case ). Calling Chad washed up knowing his background is pure ignorance.

 

Point is NE offense is not for everyone. We have discussed this before, they are not very good at moulding players into their system. Players themselves need to have the ability to be great to be a fit ( Moss, Welker ).

 

But yeah, whatever  .

[amfootball]

Johnson had 831 yards in 14 games in 2010 just a year prior to 2011. I dont know how you determine "way past his prime".

Look at the stats  you posted on Johnson. He had his best years from 2003-2007.  So yeah he was way past his prime in 2011. He was still serviceable at least so we thought but he was unable to stay on the field and lost speed and ability to separate. If he was still a good receiver at that point then another team would have picked him up after the Pats releases him but no one did. He had lost it completely.

[Shane Bond]

Look at the stats  you posted on Johnson. He had his best years from 2003-2007.  So yeah he was way past his prime in 2011. He was still serviceable at least so we thought but he was unable to stay on the field and lost speed and ability to separate. If he was still a good receiver at that point then another team would have picked him up after the Pats releases him but no one did. He had lost it completely.

I just gave you 14 games stats.

 

I mean 276 yards ??. Worst than his rookie season?. I mean these are stats. He didn't get the NE system or he wasn't taught well enough to understand it.

 

Calling him washed up is baloney.

[jvan1973]

Look at the stats you posted on Johnson. He had his best years from 2003-2007. So yeah he was way past his prime in 2011. He was still serviceable at least so we thought but he was unable to stay on the field and lost speed and ability to separate. If he was still a good receiver at that point then another team would have picked him up after the Pats releases him but no one did. He had lost it completely.

The dolphins signed him but cut him after he beat up his wife

[amfootball]

I just gave you 14 games stats.

 

I mean 276 yards ??. Worst than his rookie season?. I mean these are stats. He didn't get the NE system or he wasn't taught well enough to understand it.

 

Calling him washed up is baloney.

He did not gain one yard after the Pats released him. He was done when he came.

[amfootball]

The dolphins signed him but cut him after he beat up his wife

If he was any good they would have kept him even with the domestic abuse. Look at the Ravens and Ray Rice.

[Shane Bond]

He did not gain one yard after the Pats released him. He was done when he came.

That has nothing to do with what happend with Pats. He has off field issues. On the field he is a great player.

[amfootball]

That has nothing to do with what happend with Pats. He has off field issues. On the field he is a great player.

Baloney and you know it. If he was any good, he would still be playing just like Ray Rice and the host of other NFL players that have had issues and are still playing because they are good enough to still contribute. Johnson was washed up when the Pats got him.

[Shane Bond]

Baloney and you know it. If he was any good, he would still be playing just like Ray Rice and the host of other NFL players that have had issues and are still playing because they are good enough to still contribute. Johnson was washed up when the Pats got him.

I dont know what else to show you other than stats and you have a complete blind eye towards it.

 

Thats right, he was washed up before he came to Pats. You clearly know better than Belichick   .

[amfootball]

I dont know what else to show you other than stats and you have a complete blind eye towards it.

 

Thats right, he was washed up before he came to Pats. You clearly know better than Belichick   .

I already refuted your stats and you refuse to acknowledge that this prime years were 2003-2007. He was long past prime in 2011.

Bill is not all knowing. He gave Chad a chance and it did not work out because he had nothing left. That again was proven by the fact that he never played in the NFL again.

[Shane Bond]

I already refuted your stats and you refuse to acknowledge that this prime years were 2003-2007. He was long past prime in 2011.

Bill is not all knowing. He gave Chad a chance and it did not work out because he had nothing left. That again was proven by the fact that he never played in the NFL again.

Lol your refutal doesn't change the facts. Thats merely your opinion just like how you called Bill out  .

 

Have a nice day.

[amfootball]

Lol your refutal doesn't change the facts. Thats merely your opinion just like how you called Bill out  .

 

Have a nice day.

Good grief.

[Shane Bond]

Good grief.

lol i am sorry?.

[southwest1]

I hate to say it but another great move by Belichick . Nine year player , huge salary, heading on the downside for a young tight end and draft pick. Nice move.

 

Yes, it is TOC, but their GM deserves credit too. Hey, how come no GM is listed on their main website under Front Office? Is BB both the GM & HC? The only other person listed there is Nick Caserio, Director Of Player Personnel. If BB is pulling double duty, then yes, I do stand corrected. 

Some more details on the trade. Apparently, the Patriots as far back as Feb were asking Mankins to restructure and he refused not surprisingly given his past history with his contracts, http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/08/27/report-tom-brady-very-upset-about-logan-mankins-trade/

Yeah, I'd be pretty upset too if I was Brady about losing Mankins so close to the start of the regular season actually. Chemistry doesn't just develop overnight you know. Tom will manage just fine, but he has a right to be ticked off. 

[amfootball]

Yes, it is TOC, but their GM deserves credit too. Hey, how come no GM is listed on their main website under Front Office? Is BB both the GM & HC? The only other person listed there is Nick Caserio, Director Of Player Personnel. If BB is pulling double duty, then yes, I do stand corrected. 

Yeah, I'd be pretty upset too if I was Brady about losing Mankins so close to the start of the regular season actually. Chemistry doesn't just develop overnight you know. Tom will manage just fine, but he has a right to be ticked off. 

Eh, Tom gets upset over everybody they lose on offense. He is an emotional guy. He pretty much begged Light not to retire last year. He will get over it soon enough.

[Shane Bond]

I absolutely love the control BB has over the Pats. Tom tries his best to send his message by using the media .

 

I bet he doesnt say a word infront of Belichick  .

[southwest1]

The dolphins signed him but cut him after he beat up his wife

Yeah, getting released by an abysmal team like the Dolphins pretty much meant that Chad Johnson's NFL career was over. Who's left to take a chance on a black sheep WR?

 

Well, there's always Oakland I guess & even they said no to Mr. Ocho Cinco. What's spanish for the number -1? LOL!

[southwest1]

Eh, Tom gets upset over everybody they lose on offense. He is an emotional guy. He pretty much begged Light not to retire last year. He will get over it soon enough.

Logan Mankins isn't some average run of the mill lineman though. Plus, it didn't look his skill set was slipping all that much, but I have no idea of how much o-line depth you have on your roster either so NE will probably be okay. And if you drafted him in 2005, it's probably time to cut him loose anyway & get something for him.

 

Brady has to be getting used to this loosing established guys in a passive/aggressive fashion by now since it's happened his whole career, but it's gotta take it's toll on Brady emotionally at some point. Yeah, I know all 32 teams trade players but not quite like how Foxboro does it in rapid succession though.

 

That's the point: Brady is a great QB, but not a machine, eventually turnover at key positions comes back to haunt you at some point. Chemistry on the line matters & it doesn't always gel on the fly. 

 

My biggest here is when the trade happened: It's August 28, 2014 today & the regular season starts on September 4th...You make this trade at the start of August or the 2nd week no later not now.

[GoPats]

I realize them alright, GoPats.

 

Point is there are WRs who are successful elsewhere not in NE. Its hard to believe a player who was successful all the way and suddenly fail to forget football once he enters NE ( In Chad's case ). Calling Chad washed up knowing his background is pure ignorance.

 

Point is NE offense is not for everyone. We have discussed this before, they are not very good at moulding players into their system. Players themselves need to have the ability to be great to be a fit ( Moss, Welker ).

 

But yeah, whatever  .

 

OK so I torpedoed your Jabar Gaffney example. We can do the same with Chad Johnson.

 

Please, man... read this article. It's not long and you'll learn a lot. 

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2012/06/why_did_the_och.html

 

 

Some excerpts:

 

So what was the problem with Ochocinco in this offense?

 

According to multiple sources, he just doesn't have the football I.Q. that he appeared to have while with the Bengals. The Patriots would literally tell him to run a route a certain way, and a minute later he would run it the other way. It happened all the time...

 

The truth is, it was probably never going to work. What the Patriots didn't realize watching Ochocinco on film while with the Bengals was, according to several league sources, he ran the routes he wanted to there and it drove quarterback Carson Palmer nuts -- especially later in his Bengals career. But Palmer was smart enough to realize that no matter where Ochocinco was running, he was probably going to get open because his feet are that good down the field. And after so many reps together, Palmer had a good feel for where Ochocinco would end up.

 

That can play in the Bengal's offense, but not with the Patriots. This offense is so precise that if one player is in the wrong spot, it throws off the entire system...  not to mention it irks Brady, who wants to be in total control at all times on the field.

[amfootball]

Logan Mankins isn't some average run of the mill lineman though. Plus, it didn't look his skill set was slipping all that much, but I have no idea of how much o-line depth you have on your roster either so NE will probably be okay. And if you drafted him in 2005, it's probably time to cut him loose anyway & get something for him.

 

Brady has to be getting used to this loosing established guys in a passive/aggressive fashion by now since it's happened his whole career, but it's gotta take it's toll on Brady emotionally at some point. Yeah, I know all 32 teams trade players but not quite like how Foxboro does it in rapid succession though.

 

That's the point: Brady is a great QB, but not a machine, eventually turnover at key positions comes back to haunt you at some point. Chemistry on the line matters & it doesn't always gel on the fly. 

 

My biggest here is when the trade happened: It's August 28, 2014 today & the regular season starts on September 4th...You make this trade at the start of August or the 2nd week no later not now.

I get what you saying SW but this deal was a no brainer in terms of the contract for Mankins and the return which is a second year TE that had 54 catches. Brady has to be happy about that. What is ironic to me is that the Pats veered away from their normal pattern this year by signing and paying big money for FAs - Revis and Browner and then resigned long time NT Wilfork after what seemed to be a nasty fight when they originally asked him to restructure. In addition, they got Edelman back on a good deal because he could not find a team to pay him more than the Pats. So really this off-season has been an aberration for them. The Mankins trade has been more there MO but I think if Brady is upset at all, it is losing one of his good friends like it was when he lost Welker. He and Mankins go back almost ten years just like he did with Light. He knows it was the right business decision but that does not mean he is not sad over the loss.

 

In terms of your second point, turnover does matter but I think what has helped propel the Pats to such unprecedented success is the fact that they don't just turnover vet players without having a very good contingency plan. They have by no means been perfect but have made enough of the right decisions to maintain 10+ win seasons and deep playoff runs for the last decade.

 

I agree about the timing of the trade. I don't like it either and wish they had done it sooner. But I wonder if they were hopeful that Mankins would restructure or possibly have already been playing other guys on the line and just waiting for the right deal to come along. I think they could not pass up what the Bucs were offering given TE is such a big need and they got the draft pick and unloaded a huge salary for the next couple of seasons.

[Shane Bond]

OK so I torpedoed your Jabar Gaffney example. We can do the same with Chad Johnson.

Please, man... read this article. It's not long and you'll learn a lot.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2012/06/why_did_the_och.html

Some excerpts:

So what was the problem with Ochocinco in this offense?

According to multiple sources, he just doesn't have the football I.Q. that he appeared to have while with the Bengals. The Patriots would literally tell him to run a route a certain way, and a minute later he would run it the other way. It happened all the time...

The truth is, it was probably never going to work. What the Patriots didn't realize watching Ochocinco on film while with the Bengals was, according to several league sources, he ran the routes he wanted to there and it drove quarterback Carson Palmer nuts -- especially later in his Bengals career. But Palmer was smart enough to realize that no matter where Ochocinco was running, he was probably going to get open because his feet are that good down the field. And after so many reps together, Palmer had a good feel for where Ochocinco would end up.

That can play in the Bengal's offense, but not with the Patriots. This offense is so precise that if one player is in the wrong spot, it throws off the entire system... not to mention it irks Brady, who wants to be in total control at all times on the field.

Man you come with these fancy articles and more you do, it looks more sillier .

So let me get this, Chad Johnson had 7 over 1000 yards seasons by running the route he wanted and pissing the QB.

Time to move on with this buddy.

[southwest1]

OK so I torpedoed your Jabar Gaffney example. We can do the same with Chad Johnson.

 

Please, man... read this article. It's not long and you'll learn a lot. 

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2012/06/why_did_the_och.html

 

 

Some excerpts:

 

So what was the problem with Ochocinco in this offense?

 

According to multiple sources, he just doesn't have the football I.Q. that he appeared to have while with the Bengals. The Patriots would literally tell him to run a route a certain way, and a minute later he would run it the other way. It happened all the time...

 

The truth is, it was probably never going to work. What the Patriots didn't realize watching Ochocinco on film while with the Bengals was, according to several league sources, he ran the routes he wanted to there and it drove quarterback Carson Palmer nuts -- especially later in his Bengals career. But Palmer was smart enough to realize that no matter where Ochocinco was running, he was probably going to get open because his feet are that good down the field. And after so many reps together, Palmer had a good feel for where Ochocinco would end up.

 

That can play in the Bengal's offense, but not with the Patriots. This offense is so precise that if one player is in the wrong spot, it throws off the entire system...  not to mention it irks Brady, who wants to be in total control at all times on the field.

Here's my question though: Didn't BB bring him in for a private workout in Boston? The eye in the sky or tape never lies, but a guy as smart as Bill is, wouldn't he talk to Marvin Lewis personally about Chad & throw different route combinations at him live? Are we to believe that Marvin Lewis lied just to get rid of him & since BB is so good at throwing multiple situations at players in simulations why didn't he see that Johnson did his own thing & failed to follow orders, formations, & crisp WR routes? 

 

I'm not calling BB out. I am just surprised that he did see what kind of WR he was getting before NE signed him that's all. 

 

It sounds like 1 conversation with QB Carson Palmer would have been enough to say no thank you to Chad in a Pats uniform. Yes I know hindsight is always 20/20. I'm just amazed BB got so duped. Aaron Hernandez I get & can easily forgive, but the Johnson fiasco leaves me puzzled & perplexed GP. I can't lie. 

[amfootball]

Here's my question though: Didn't BB bring him in for a private workout in Boston. The eye in the sky or tape never lies, but a guy as smart as Bill is, wouldn't he talk to Marvin Lewis personally about Chad & throw different route combinations at him live? Are we to believe that Marvin Lewis lied just to get rid of him & since BB is so good at throwing multiple situations at players in simulations why didn't he see that Johnson did his own thing & failed to follow orders, formations, & crisp WR routes? 

 

I'm not calling BB out. I am just surprised that he did see what kind of WR he was getting before NE signed him that's all. 

I think Bill and Brady would have been fine with Chad running his routes if he was getting open. That was the difference. The speed was gone and so at that point you have to become a precision route runner like Reggie Wayne has become in the twilight of his career. Chad neither had the speed nor the discipline to be effective which is why his football career was over post NE. Moss was also infamous for dogging it and not running his routes either but he had blazing speed so he was open. If your open Brady will hit you. If not, best to follow the pattern of the play so you have a chance for Brady to hit you where he expects you to be.

[Shane Bond]

Here's my question though: Didn't BB bring him in for a private workout in Boston? The eye in the sky or tape never lies, but a guy as smart as Bill is, wouldn't he talk to Marvin Lewis personally about Chad & throw different route combinations at him live? Are we to believe that Marvin Lewis lied just to get rid of him & since BB is so good at throwing multiple situations at players in simulations why didn't he see that Johnson did his own thing & failed to follow orders, formations, & crisp WR routes?

I'm not calling BB out. I am just surprised that he did see what kind of WR he was getting before NE signed him that's all.

It sounds like 1 conversation with QB Carson Palmer would have been enough to say no thank to Chad in a Pats uniform. Yes I know hindsight is always 20/20. I'm just amazed BB got so duped. Aaron Hernandez I get & can easily forgive, but the Johnson fiasco leaves me puzzled & perplexed GP. I can't lie.

lol the day he stepped in NE, his talent magically disappeared. Apparently that has happend to quite a few .

Bill is absolutely wrong. What does he know?.