To understand Peyton Manning one has to know where he came from

[King Colt]

I saw a one hour documentary about Peyton a couple weeks ago and he was then starting in juniotr football, high school, etc.,  what he is today in terms of dedication not only to his performance but to the game itself and that separates him from the braggers. He is a never ending student. I wouild guess he won't go in to coaching but if he did I believe firmly he understands the difference between his study habits and those habits of others.

[Shane Bond]

This goes back to my theory from before that I do think our expectations of Manning are unfair. He is not the same QB when he plays teams above .500 as indicated by his record and stats. When he blows the doors off of Oakland and the Redskins, we expect him to do that to the playoff teams as well and when he doesn't then he gets labeled a choker. He is a great QB no doubt but the same as any other when he plays top competition - he struggles, at times has bad games, and is just as reliant on his team playing well around him to win.

Do you believe he is a choker?.

[amfootball]

Do you believe he is a choker?.

I think at times he has choked like every other player but I would not label him as a choker at all.

[sweetsurrender]

I have to disagree to an extent. I have been watching Manning as well as most of us since 1998. And while I have seen the charts and numbers and stats to debunk things. I don't feel he is the same guy at times in big games. I see it in his face as well......he can get all "tight". I think it is more evident when he is in Foxboro, a Super Bowl or out of his comfort zone. I think Manning is a huge creature of comfort/routine too and when he can be taken out of his elements he has trouble maintaining it all in his own head but thats just my opinion as someone who loves to over analyze things.

 

Granted, I have seen him play live before too. Mostly back when he was more in his prime. I also think he might be the best QB I have ever seen play in person before. But, in big games I do think he can over prepare at times which has bugged me a lot since I think he has issues at times just letting loose and sometimes I feel his attitude can spread to those around him with an inability to relax as their leader. I think the pressures put on Manning as well since he first entered this league have gotten to his head too and all of ours. We expect the world from this guy......and when he doesn't deliver and chances are the odds are often against his team......every error will gleam brighter then ever. As if he has to deliver all the time as this mythical "GOAT" figure of football.....which is impossible. Nobody is perfect.

 

What I mean is you can definitely go over board with over thinking and preparing for a game. I think you have to create the right balance between preparation and mental looseness and relaxation with the guys before hand. I think this is more of a big game thing then anything though not an every week thing. I have no doubts Manning can let loose with the guys on a weekly basis but I do feel things can change a tad with him entering a big playoff game or a game in say Foxboro. I think coming to Indy last year got in his head too........and I am curious to see how he is this year when we go to Denver opposed to him coming back here.

There was an article last year in the Denver Post that I am trying to find where a few of Manning's teammates said this exact thing. They were afraid of making any mistakes because he would be all over them and it was making them tight. I will try to find it.

[jvan1973]

There was an article last year in the Denver Post that I am trying to find where a few of Manning's teammates said this exact thing. They were afraid of making any mistakes because he would be all over them and it was making them tight. I will try to find it.

Yeah, I'll be waiting for that

[sweetsurrender]

Here is one from April with Ball saying Manning had him playing scared,  http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/08/01/montee-ball-says-meticulous-peyton-manning-had-him-running-scared-last-season/

 

The one I am looking for though was from just after the Super Bowl with multiple players echoing Ball's sentiments. Will keep looking ...

[Shane Bond]

Here is one from April with Ball saying Manning made him nervous, http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/08/01/montee-ball-says-meticulous-peyton-manning-had-him-running-scared-last-season/

 

The one I am looking for though was from just after the Super Bowl with multiple players echoing Ball's sentiments. Will keep looking ...

Ball meant it in a positive way. 

 

Do you really think if the current players are afraid and nervous because of Manning and they come out public, Elway and Fox wont step in?.

[sweetsurrender]

Ball meant it in a positive way. 

 

Do you really think if the current players are afraid and nervous because of Manning and they come out public, Elway and Fox wont step in?.

He did? "Montee Ball acknowledges he was "a little bit" intimidated by Peyton Manning last year, something he says contributed to his slow start." 

 

What do you think Fox and Elway would do exactly?

[Shane Bond]

He did? "Montee Ball acknowledges he was "a little bit" intimidated by Peyton Manning last year, something he says contributed to his slow start." 

 

What do you think Fox and Elway would do exactly?

I saw the interview he was smiling when he said it ( like respecting Manning's knowledge ).

 

Well i asked you that question. I mean Manning is just a player, he cant be threatening players in the team to the extend where it affects their performance. Why would he do that.

[sweetsurrender]

I saw the interview he was smiling when he said it ( like respecting Manning's knowledge ).

 

Well i asked you that question. I mean Manning is just a player, he cant be threatening players in the team to the extend where it affects their performance. Why would he do that.

Ball did not say he was being threatened. At least I don't think he did. But I think a QB can affect the way their teammates perform if they have an obsessive/perfectionist attitude like Manning. It did have a negative affect on Ball. He said so even if he was half kidding when he said it. And he is not the only one over the years who has said that. Of course, Manning's approach has also led to great success for his teammates so it is not all negative by any means. I think some players need a different approach and I am not sure if Manning can do that because of his own drive and in that case that can make him difficult to please especially for young players.

[chad72]

I have followed different sports, including cricket and tennis.

 

There are usually 2 kinds of folks who shine - one who is a technician, who does things by the book that gets applause from all the pundits, one whose fundamentals are so solid that he does not have an off day easily and has a very high floor.

 

The second type of guy is someone whose fundamentals are not as close enough to the first guy but when the chips are down, he improvizes and adapts, and rises to the occasion.

 

Ivan Lendl used to be one of those guys of the first kind, extreme amounts of hard work and high fundamentals and floor. Then came guys like John McEnroe and Boris Becker, whose fundamentals were not sound in all phases but had supreme talent and improvization skills. Then came the Agassi, Sampras era, followed by one Roger Federer. Agassi described a loss to Federer at the US Open final as "you know with Pete (referring to Sampras), once you take your game to a certain level, you can match his ceiling but with Roger, he adapts and improvizes so much that it puts you behind the 8 ball easily even if you play your best because you don't know how he will adapt."

 

Peyton is the high fundamentals high floor guy with less improvization abilities. Then, you have the Boris Beckers and John McEnroe like Eli Manning and Big Ben who do not make it to the playoffs/finals all the time with a high fundamentals/focus approach but their improvization skills and rising to the challenge abilities (even Flacco lately) help them/their team gain that extra oomph because opponents cannot plan for it. Elite teams feel they can match the ceiling of Peyton because he is predictable given certain looks that he will go a certain way. He won't do anything they are not expecting and they try to do something Peyton's team is not expecting and more often than not, it works (also an indictment on the coaching Peyton has been surrounded with). That is sometimes the difference between a close win and a close loss, that little element of lancelot.

 

Brady's improvization is just a bit subtle over Peyton (QB sneaks is one clear thing he always did over Peyton) but he did master the art of turning the ball over less in the playoffs without pressing earlier than Peyton (also because of the team and coaching around him) due to which he has had more playoff success earlier. In the modern era, Brady is like Peyton (7-7 in the playoffs since his 10-0 start) due to the higher levels of improvization that teams with QBs like Rodgers, Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck etc. bring and once those QBs play complete games without turning it over (Wilson and Rodgers are already there, IMO), their improvization can do the rest.

 

Not a knock on Brees, he does turn it over less in the playoffs than in the regular season but I do think he benefits immensely from Sean Payton being the great offensive mind that he is (and to Brees' credit, he is on the same page every single time as Sean Payton). Sean Payton's offensive improvization will keep the Saints in games vs tough opponents like the Seahawks last year, and even when the Saints lose, it is seldom by more than 1 score lately (Seahawks twice by 1 score, 49ers by 1 score vs Alex Smith etc. all on the road).

[BloodyChamp]

Brees benefits from the fact that it's easier to play quarterback now. People forget he was around for several years before this era and he either stayed hurt or on the bench in favor of Doug Flutie who was in his 40s.

[Shane Bond]

I have followed different sports, including cricket and tennis.

 

There are usually 2 kinds of folks who shine - one who is a technician, who does things by the book that gets applause from all the pundits, one whose fundamentals are so solid that he does not have an off day easily and has a very high floor.

 

The second type of guy is someone whose fundamentals are not as close enough to the first guy but when the chips are down, he improvizes and adapts, and rises to the occasion.

 

Ivan Lendl used to be one of those guys of the first kind, extreme amounts of hard work and high fundamentals and floor. Then came guys like John McEnroe and Boris Becker, whose fundamentals were not sound in all phases but had supreme talent and improvization skills. Then came the Agassi, Sampras era, followed by one Roger Federer. Agassi described a loss to Federer at the US Open final as "you know with Pete (referring to Sampras), once you take your game to a certain level, you can match his ceiling but with Roger, he adapts and improvizes so much that it puts you behind the 8 ball easily even if you play your best because you don't know how he will adapt."

 

Peyton is the high fundamentals high floor guy with less improvization abilities. Then, you have the Boris Beckers and John McEnroe like Eli Manning and Big Ben who do not make it to the playoffs/finals all the time with a high fundamentals/focus approach but their improvization skills and rising to the challenge abilities (even Flacco lately) help them/their team gain that extra oomph because opponents cannot plan for it. Elite teams feel they can match the ceiling of Peyton because he is predictable given certain looks that he will go a certain way. He won't do anything they are not expecting and they try to do something Peyton's team is not expecting and more often than not, it works (also an indictment on the coaching Peyton has been surrounded with). That is sometimes the difference between a close win and a close loss, that little element of lancelot.

 

Brady's improvization is just a bit subtle over Peyton (QB sneaks is one clear thing he always did over Peyton) but he did master the art of turning the ball over less in the playoffs without pressing earlier than Peyton (also because of the team and coaching around him) due to which he has had more playoff success earlier. In the modern era, Brady is like Peyton (7-7 in the playoffs since his 10-0 start) due to the higher levels of improvization that teams with QBs like Rodgers, Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck etc. bring and once those QBs play complete games without turning it over (Wilson and Rodgers are already there, IMO), their improvization can do the rest.

 

Not a knock on Brees, he does turn it over less in the playoffs than in the regular season but I do think he benefits immensely from Sean Payton being the great offensive mind that he is (and to Brees' credit, he is on the same page every single time as Sean Payton). Sean Payton's offensive improvization will keep the Saints in games vs tough opponents like the Seahawks last year, and even when the Saints lose, it is seldom by more than 1 score lately (Seahawks twice by 1 score, 49ers by 1 score vs Alex Smith etc. all on the road).

Cricket nice. Stayed outside US?.

[21isSuperman]

One thing that irritates and kind of amazes me is the number of fans...across all teams and all sports...who think that players would, somehow automatically, become "great coaches" when they retire. If you think about it, it happens very rarely. Most former players who do become good coaches were average to slightly above average in their playing days. But people still believe it.  

It's hard to predict.  I could see it going either way.  For one thing, a guy like Peyton as a coach would be great to watch film with.  His knowledge of Xs and Os would also be a huge benefit.  And he's a great leader.  On the other hand, the drive and work ethic he has is impossible to teach.  Coaches also have to manage things like timeouts, challenges, talking to refs, managing player egos, etc. and it's very difficult to know how they would approach that.  But yeah, like you said, I do think people overrate players as coaches and make it seem like the transition from player to coach is very easy

[Superman]

Brees benefits from the fact that it's easier to play quarterback now. People forget he was around for several years before this era and he either stayed hurt or on the bench in favor of Doug Flutie who was in his 40s.

That's not true. Drew Brees was the starter by his second year in the league. Missed a few games in his second and third year, but not enough to say he "stayed hurt." He was in his fourth year in 2004, and by then he was one of the best young QBs in the league.

[Superman]

You don't find his "work ethic" insane as depicted in this article? I do. The author made him look like a lab rat and it was intentional which also probably explains many of the negative posts on this thread which are normally positive when people write personal pieces on Manning.

No. This article is full of anecdotes, meant to highlight how seriously Manning takes his craft when he's not being watched. (One in particular talks about how seriously Manning took his school work at UT, and another talks about his preparation for the Letterman show, but everyone kind of skipped over that one, I guess.) It makes no attempt to talk about his family life, none of these talk about how his life has changed since he had kids, etc. There's a very singular focus to this article, and if you take it on its face as being the totality of who he is as a person, then maybe you're getting the wrong idea.

We know that Tom Brady goes to the Kentucky Derby often, and Brady lives a somewhat more public life than Manning does. Nothing wrong with that. But because of that difference, some people don't know that Manning used to go to the Derby every year with friends, people who weren't in the NFL. You don't think about the charity he founded and actually spends quite a bit of time involved in, rather than just being a figurehead. And when you do think about his charitable efforts, you don't realize that he is just as anal about being prepared and on time for those things as he is about being prepared for Sundays in the fall.

I'd call him obsessive. You call him a crazed maniac. I just think there's some perspective that this article doesn't attempt to provide.

[azcolt]

This goes back to my theory from before that I do think our expectations of Manning are unfair. He is not the same QB when he plays teams above .500 as indicated by his record and stats. When he blows the doors off of Oakland and the Redskins, we expect him to do that to the playoff teams as well and when he doesn't then he gets labeled a choker. He is a great QB no doubt but the same as any other when he plays top competition - he struggles, at times has bad games, and is just as reliant on his team playing well around him to win.

One reason he may not do as well against top competition is that he hates being hit, unlike Luck who probably would have been a linebacker if he couldn't throw a spiral. Peyton was heavily criticized coming out of college for having happy feet and was one reason many "experts" thought the Colts should pick Ryan Leaf instead. It is amazing that a guy who hates contact could be so great in a contact sport but he still shows the "happy feet" at times, especially against superior teams. Luck, on the other hand, has mentioned that he likes to get hit hard once just to get him in the flow of the game.

[Superman]

This is where debates in football often lose me......they focus too heavily at times on numbers and stats which are fine at times, but it's not everything. We have to have opinions based on critical thinking on our own to make all these debates interesting even if they are not popular thoughts. I don't need numbers and stats to show me that Peyton was uncomfortable a lot last year in Indy for the game in that strange environment. Perhaps it was Mathis who made him this way wish some solid defensive play but as a whole I felt even from start to finish he was a tad spooked being here. But, before the game tons and tons of people made it out that he would carve us up worse then any team had ever been carved up before....simply out of some sort of mythical revenge since Irsay is a big meanie.

 

I see the same every single time he is in Foxboro. It never ends. I think Manning could play there every year till he is 80 and still look uncomfortable to me. Then he could play them at home and look like a much more comfortable man. Then again the Colts even without Manning look lost there but it is different to me......we just get out weaknesses exposed badly as a young team still developing.

You said the situation got in his head. I didn't disagree with that. I said I think he played a good game, all things considered. So whether he's comfortable or not, why aren't we judging his play based on what happened in the game? To me, it's kind of an example of what you said earlier, that the standards he's held to are different than they are for other players. "Manning looked a little fidgety on the sideline during the game. We must have been in his head..." I'm exaggerating, but that's about the breadth of it.

In reality, he almost led a furious comeback, on the road, in a building that he built, that now had turned against him, and the rally fell short mostly because Hillman couldn't hold on to the football. It wasn't his most efficient game, but it was far from his worst.

Same thing with the game in Foxboro last year. The Pats made an insane comeback, and automatically the focus turns to how Manning was off his game. "He can't handle the cold and the wind. He can't handle Gillette Stadium. He was uncomfortable." More like, his team was up early, the run game was working well, he wasn't trying to throw the ball, and at the end of the game after they had given up the lead, he made some big plays to get the game to overtime. And because of a mishandled punt, the Pats got an easy field to win the game.

More than any other QB, when his team loses, we find a reason why it's Manning's fault. You say I'm focusing too heavily on stats, but I feel like that's more reliable and less subject to bias than your gut feeling based on the way Manning looks on TV. That doesn't invalidate your opinion, and the full picture is about more than just stats. I just don't understand why we look at everyone else on paper, in light of all the circumstances, but when we talk about Manning, it turns into a soft science that can't be measured objectively.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

Superman, solid perspective.  I definitely wouldn't call him a "crazed maniac," and wouldn't agree with anyone who did.  I merely brought up the OCD (some here would call it "Anal") angle and the fact that there can be a high price to be paid for having that psyche.  

 

Our world rewards it pretty highly when someone is able to keep it in control.  My friend, that I mentioned in my first comment was "Teacher of the Year" in a large school district - and that summer her life began to fall apart.  

 

Perfectionists of any kind put a lot of pressure on the people around them.  That's true in every area of life.  A lot of perfectionists that I've had to work with have standards you can't even figure out.  You can't even know what they're thinking to try to keep ahead of them and meet their standards.  I don't know if Peyton falls in that category but it sounds like he might.  We also don't know if he's able to accept excellence in others and demands only perfection from himself - too many questions.  

 

As to teammates, when you are playing for someone considered a possible GOAT you aren't going to speak out about what that extra pressure does to you.  And if you did you would be pilloried.  The Pittsburgh Steeler WR (can't think of the name) that positively compared Peyton to Rothelsberger got hit hard by all sides.  

 

I think that Denver's collapse in the Superbowl could be attributed to being too intense about it being the Superbowl (and they would not be unique in that experience).  

 

In general, a team that develops a hard working, fun loving, caring for one another personality and can go into that game prepared but also prepared to ENJOY the game and for whom the game isn't too big for will have a leg up on an uptight team.  

[Superman]

Superman, solid perspective.  I definitely wouldn't call him a "crazed maniac," and wouldn't agree with anyone who did.  I merely brought up the OCD (some here would call it "Anal") angle and the fact that there can be a high price to be paid for having that psyche.  

 

Our world rewards it pretty highly when someone is able to keep it in control.  My friend, that I mentioned in my first comment was "Teacher of the Year" in a large school district - and that summer her life began to fall apart.  

 

Perfectionists of any kind put a lot of pressure on the people around them.  That's true in every area of life.  A lot of perfectionists that I've had to work with have standards you can't even figure out.  You can't even know what they're thinking to try to keep ahead of them and meet their standards.  I don't know if Peyton falls in that category but it sounds like he might.  We also don't know if he's able to accept excellence in others and demands only perfection from himself - too many questions.  

 

As to teammates, when you are playing for someone considered a possible GOAT you aren't going to speak out about what that extra pressure does to you.  And if you did you would be pilloried.  The Pittsburgh Steeler WR (can't think of the name) that positively compared Peyton to Rothelsberger got hit hard by all sides.  

 

I think that Denver's collapse in the Superbowl could be attributed to being too intense about it being the Superbowl (and they would not be unique in that experience).  

 

In general, a team that develops a hard working, fun loving, caring for one another personality and can go into that game prepared but also prepared to ENJOY the game and for whom the game isn't too big for will have a leg up on an uptight team.  

 

That's all fair. Being overly obsessive, even a perfectionist, to the point of OCD, is often problematic. No question it hurts personal relationships, and that might be the case with Manning (although I think that's conjecture).

 

I don't necessarily agree with the stuff about how Denver lost the SB because they were too tight (and again, I think it's another inventive way to lay the blame at Manning's feet), but I understand where you're coming from.

 

To the bolded, I take exception to that because you're presenting an argument that can't be argued against. If there isn't real evidence of this pressure that playing with Manning creates, it's only because no one would dare acknowledge it. Yet, some are convinced that it's true, despite it being entirely speculative. It might be true, to a certain extent, but there are countless individuals who have absolutely thrived while playing with Manning. Those guys are usually talented and hard working. Maybe the difference between them and the guys who whither under the pressure is a matter of work ethic and the skill it yields. 

[Girlzarefanstoo]

To the bolded, I take exception to that because you're presenting an argument that can't be argued against. If there isn't real evidence of this pressure that playing with Manning creates, it's only because no one would dare acknowledge it. Yet, some are convinced that it's true, despite it being entirely speculative. It might be true, to a certain extent, but there are countless individuals who have absolutely thrived while playing with Manning. Those guys are usually talented and hard working. Maybe the difference between them and the guys who whither under the pressure is a matter of work ethic and the skill it yields

It's true it can't be argued against, but I wasn't really "arguing it" - just suggesting the possibility it might be a factor.  

 

As a mostly disinterested outside observer that's what it appears to my eyes.  The way things work in the NFL or any team sport, is that you don't know how you would function differently in a different system or with different coaching etc.  Your "normal" is what you think is everyone else's normal.  Guys will do well with Manning because he's exceptional - there is no arguing that, it's a fact.  But how would they do with Manning or a QB of similar caliber if he there were a little different approach?  Rarely will you have a chance to see that in operation.  I wish we could tune into an alternative universe and observe :-)

 

I'll give an example of what we have observed in SD with our recent changes:

 

Philip Rivers fought to the death for San Diego to keep Norv Turner.  He loved him as a man and his system and couldn't imagine not having him as his coach.  He achieved a very high level overall with Norv, until he lost his OLine and top receivers due to injury the previous two years.  He publicly stood up for keeping Norv, but in the end he lost that battle and when he did, he chose to embrace the changes.  

 

Those changes revived his career.  The training camp is completely different.  The atmosphere is entirely different.  The overall disciplined approach is different. The way the veteran leadership runs the team and trains the new guys is supported and encouraged.  The trust in Phil's decision-making by the coach as QB is different.  Norv never allowed him to change the play or call his own plays - it all came in from the sidelines.  He has the same mental capacity as PM to read defenses, see the playing field and the incredible ability to absorb information and use it quickly and accurately on the field.  You all will see how that changes the function of the offense this coming year.  

 

Besides the fact that he never talks down about anyone, EVER, he would have never even have realized what Norv Turner was costing him until he experienced something different.  He's a better QB due to the changes in atmosphere around him.   The team is taught to focus on the details but have FUN. Play hard and disciplined but enjoy the moment, play loose and play for each other.  

 

I'm rambling... must get to work.  I've really enjoyed this conversation.  Can't wait until real games so we quit talking conjecture and talk results, LOL!

[GoPats]

While I admire the work ethic, I think Manning had a lot of things lined up pretty well for him. As the son of an NFL quarterback, it's not like he had to bag groceries or hold down a 20-hour-a-week job in high school while also trying to keep up with his studies and play the sport. He didn't have to work all that hard to build a name for himself. Maybe that's WHY he's worked so hard... so as to not appear to be a child of privilege. 

 

It's admirable, don't get me wrong. There are just probably countless players in the NFL who had to fight and scrape their way through poverty, violence, etc, to get to where they are now. 

[amfootball]

No. This article is full of anecdotes, meant to highlight how seriously Manning takes his craft when he's not being watched. (One in particular talks about how seriously Manning took his school work at UT, and another talks about his preparation for the Letterman show, but everyone kind of skipped over that one, I guess.) It makes no attempt to talk about his family life, none of these talk about how his life has changed since he had kids, etc. There's a very singular focus to this article, and if you take it on its face as being the totality of who he is as a person, then maybe you're getting the wrong idea.

We know that Tom Brady goes to the Kentucky Derby often, and Brady lives a somewhat more public life than Manning does. Nothing wrong with that. But because of that difference, some people don't know that Manning used to go to the Derby every year with friends, people who weren't in the NFL. You don't think about the charity he founded and actually spends quite a bit of time involved in, rather than just being a figurehead. And when you do think about his charitable efforts, you don't realize that he is just as anal about being prepared and on time for those things as he is about being prepared for Sundays in the fall.

I'd call him obsessive. You call him a crazed maniac. I just think there's some perspective that this article doesn't attempt to provide.

That was my point. The author intentionally painted him as a crazy football maniac.

[Superman]

That was my point. The author intentionally painted him as a crazy football maniac.

 

I didn't see it that way. The article had a singular focus. It wasn't meant to give perspective into other areas of Manning's life, but just because it doesn't discuss those angles doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because the writer didn't discuss Manning's family doesn't mean Manning doesn't spend time with his kids, etc. The only way I'd get the impression that the article was trying to make him look wild-eyed is if I think this is supposed to be an exhaustive biography. 

[amfootball]

I didn't see it that way. The article had a singular focus. It wasn't meant to give perspective into other areas of Manning's life, but just because it doesn't discuss those angles doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because the writer didn't discuss Manning's family doesn't mean Manning doesn't spend time with his kids, etc. The only way I'd get the impression that the article was trying to make him look wild-eyed is if I think this is supposed to be an exhaustive biography. 

The perspective it DID give is what make him look so crazy obsessive. It is what the author chose to do so how it gets perceived is on the author. I am surprised the editor did not weigh in more to give the article more balance. Also, how many of these articles on Manning's obession with football so we really need? I would have enjoyed an article that delved more into his life outside of football as that is rarely profiled.

[Superman]

While I admire the work ethic, I think Manning had a lot of things lined up pretty well for him. As the son of an NFL quarterback, it's not like he had to bag groceries or hold down a 20-hour-a-week job in high school while also trying to keep up with his studies and play the sport. He didn't have to work all that hard to build a name for himself. Maybe that's WHY he's worked so hard... so as to not appear to be a child of privilege. 

 

It's admirable, don't get me wrong. There are just probably countless players in the NFL who had to fight and scrape their way through poverty, violence, etc, to get to where they are now. 

 

All true. Genes alone, right? He looks a little skinnier to me, but according to listed weights, he outweighs Paul Pierce. He far outweighs guys like Kobe Bryant and James Harden. He's a big dude, and that has helped him a lot.

 

And he pretty much grew up on a football field. If there was ever anyone virtually born to play NFL QB, it's Peyton Manning. 

 

Then you look at guys like Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick, who had different circumstances entirely. He's definitely not the only guy who has put in a lot of hard work.

[Superman]

The perspective it DID give is what make him look so crazy obsessive. It is what the author chose to do so how it gets perceived is on the author. I am surprised the editor did not weigh in more to give the article more balance. Also, how many of these articles on Manning's obession with football so we really need? I would have enjoyed an article that delved more into his life outside of football as that is rarely profiled.

 

I don't know. I think the point was "this is how hard he works to be as good as he is, even after 17 years in the league." To me, it was singularly focused on his desire to be as prepared as possible. It wasn't supposed to be balanced. It was only about one thing, not a full character profile.

 

And Manning works just as hard to keep his personal life private. No one knew that his wife was pregnant until after they had their twins, and even when the news started coming out, it seemed like a weird rumor that no one could substantiate. It wasn't really confirmed for a couple weeks. His wife is hardly ever photographed, rarely interviewed (seriously, like five times in his pro career), and never profiled. So all you're going to get about his life outside of football is going to be things that are meant for public consumption, carefully considered by Manning himself, in most cases.

[GoPats]

All true. Genes alone, right? He looks a little skinnier to me, but according to listed weights, he outweighs Paul Pierce. He far outweighs guys like Kobe Bryant and James Harden. He's a big dude, and that has helped him a lot.

 

And he pretty much grew up on a football field. If there was ever anyone virtually born to play NFL QB, it's Peyton Manning. 

 

Then you look at guys like Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick, who had different circumstances entirely. He's definitely not the only guy who has put in a lot of hard work.

 

 

Good examples, I was actually thinking Richard Sherman initially. Read a lot about his upbringing lately, he really impresses me. 

 

And sure, takes hard work either way, but I think you were getting the gist of what I was saying. He didn't have to worry about certain things that were probably all-encompassing for a lot of players in the league who grew up in the projects and the worst parts of the worst cities. He had the opportunity to work hard, and to his credit he made the most of it. 

 

I can think of worse ways to grow up than with a former NFL quarterback for a dad. Peyton was destined for this, it seems. Credit to him for not just relying on that pedigree and for putting in the work. 

[Shane Bond]

That was my point. The author intentionally painted him as a crazy football maniac.

Even if the author doesn't, you will ensure he is one  :highfive:

[amfootball]

I don't know. I think the point was "this is how hard he works to be as good as he is, even after 17 years in the league." To me, it was singularly focused on his desire to be as prepared as possible. It wasn't supposed to be balanced. It was only about one thing, not a full character profile.

 

And Manning works just as hard to keep his personal life private. No one knew that his wife was pregnant until after they had their twins, and even when the news started coming out, it seemed like a weird rumor that no one could substantiate. It wasn't really confirmed for a couple weeks. His wife is hardly ever photographed, rarely interviewed (seriously, like five times in his pro career), and never profiled. So all you're going to get about his life outside of football is going to be things that are meant for public consumption, carefully considered by Manning himself, in most cases.

Yeah, I get that he is a private guy but like I said I think the article was over kill. We know how obsessed he is and would never think it would wane just because he is in his 17th year. When I read some of the stuff, I really thought it was creepy over the top. JMO.

[jvan1973]

Yeah, I get that he is a private guy but like I said I think the article was over kill. We know how obsessed he is and would never think it would wane just because he is in his 17th year. When I read some of the stuff, I really thought it was creepy over the top. JMO.

Nothing in that article is new. Colts fans have known it for years

[amfootball]

Nothing in that article is new. Colts fans have known it for years

Colts fans? Every football fan knows how obsessed Manning is because articles like these come out every single season and off-season. This one just made it a point to harp ridiculously on it.

[jvan1973]

Colts fans? Every football fan knows how obsessed Manning is because articles like these come out every single season and off-season. This one just made it a point to harp ridiculously on it.

That article only touched on a portion of it. He traveled to new draft picks campuses to meet with guys before they had even reported to rookie mini cap just so he could get them up to speed a bit.

[Shane Bond]

That article only touched on a portion of it. He traveled to new draft picks campuses to meet with guys before they had even reported to rookie mini cap just so he could get them up to speed a bit.

He drove 4 hrs to Garcon's campus.

[Guest nflfan014]

You said the situation got in his head. I didn't disagree with that. I said I think he played a good game, all things considered. So whether he's comfortable or not, why aren't we judging his play based on what happened in the game? To me, it's kind of an example of what you said earlier, that the standards he's held to are different than they are for other players. "Manning looked a little fidgety on the sideline during the game. We must have been in his head..." I'm exaggerating, but that's about the breadth of it.

In reality, he almost led a furious comeback, on the road, in a building that he built, that now had turned against him, and the rally fell short mostly because Hillman couldn't hold on to the football. It wasn't his most efficient game, but it was far from his worst.

Same thing with the game in Foxboro last year. The Pats made an insane comeback, and automatically the focus turns to how Manning was off his game. "He can't handle the cold and the wind. He can't handle Gillette Stadium. He was uncomfortable." More like, his team was up early, the run game was working well, he wasn't trying to throw the ball, and at the end of the game after they had given up the lead, he made some big plays to get the game to overtime. And because of a mishandled punt, the Pats got an easy field to win the game.

More than any other QB, when his team loses, we find a reason why it's Manning's fault. You say I'm focusing too heavily on stats, but I feel like that's more reliable and less subject to bias than your gut feeling based on the way Manning looks on TV. That doesn't invalidate your opinion, and the full picture is about more than just stats. I just don't understand why we look at everyone else on paper, in light of all the circumstances, but when we talk about Manning, it turns into a soft science that can't be measured objectively.

 

To the first point...he didn't have a good game no matter how you slice it.  Even when they were up 24-0, Al Michaels and Chris Collinsworth said "If we were to tell you the Broncos were up 24-0 you'd think Peyton Manning was having a great game, when it's really Patriot mistakes and the running game."  Then Brady came back and scored 24 unanswered points.  When one QB wins AFC Offensive Player Of The Week in the game, throws spirals in the wind, 300 yards and 3 TDs and another is clearly uncomfortable to the point where Belichick kicks the ball off to him in overtime because he knows he won't put up any points, it's hard not to notice unless you're a Manning fan.

 

To the second point, when Manning loses, his fans and the media are quick to jump to his defense and blame teammates/coaches/anyone but him.  A few critics question him, but in general, it's not talked about, then next year he's the favorite to win it all again.  (For what it's worth, I don't think the SB was all his fault.  He played poorly, but the team didn't show up in general and were outmatched.)

[Guest nflfan014]

That's all fair. Being overly obsessive, even a perfectionist, to the point of OCD, is often problematic. No question it hurts personal relationships, and that might be the case with Manning (although I think that's conjecture).

 

I don't necessarily agree with the stuff about how Denver lost the SB because they were too tight (and again, I think it's another inventive way to lay the blame at Manning's feet), but I understand where you're coming from.

 

To the bolded, I take exception to that because you're presenting an argument that can't be argued against. If there isn't real evidence of this pressure that playing with Manning creates, it's only because no one would dare acknowledge it. Yet, some are convinced that it's true, despite it being entirely speculative. It might be true, to a certain extent, but there are countless individuals who have absolutely thrived while playing with Manning. Those guys are usually talented and hard working. Maybe the difference between them and the guys who whither under the pressure is a matter of work ethic and the skill it yields. 

When they were down, it was Welker who was trying to rally the bench and saying "We're the greatest offense of all time, let's show them what we got" while Peyton sat there defeated.

[Shane Bond]

To the first point...he didn't have a good game no matter how you slice it. Even when they were up 24-0, Al Michaels and Chris Collinsworth said "If we were to tell you the Broncos were up 24-0 you'd think Peyton Manning was having a great game, when it's really Patriot mistakes and the running game." Then Brady came back and scored 24 unanswered points by Manning. When one QB wins AFC Offensive Player Of The Week, throws spirals in the wind, 300 yards and 3 TDs and another is clearly uncomfortable to the point where Belichick kicks the ball off to him in overtime because he knows he won't put up any points, it's hard not to notice if you aren't a Manning fan.

To the second point, when Manning loses, his fans and the media are quick to jump to his defense and blame teammates/coaches/anyone but him. A few critics question him, but in general, it's not talked about, then next year he's the favorite to win it all again.

And for 896th time, you have repeated the same. We get your Manning hatred.

Just take a deep breath and say ooza now.

[BloodyChamp]

That's not true. Drew Brees was the starter by his second year in the league. Missed a few games in his second and third year, but not enough to say he "stayed hurt." He was in his fourth year in 2004, and by then he was one of the best young QBs in the league.

That's why I added how he was benched when he wasn't hurt.

[Guest nflfan014]

And for 896th time, you have repeated the same. We get your Manning hatred.

Just take a deep breath and say ooza now.

I don't "hate" him.  He's a great quarterback and seems like a good person.  I just don't like some of his fans that refuse to admit that he's ever had a bad game or made a bad play.

[Girlzarefanstoo]

I don't hate him.  He's never done anything to me, and he's a great quarterback.  I just don't like fans of his like yourself that refuse to admit that he's ever had a bad game or made a bad play.

I haven't heard any Peyton fan say he's never had a bad game or made a bad play.