To understand Peyton Manning one has to know where he came from

[Shane Bond]

I don't hate him. He's never done anything to me, and he's a great quarterback. I just don't like fans of his like yourself that refuse to admit that he's ever had a bad game or made a bad play.

You are misinformed. You haven't read all my posts to make that comment or of other Manning fans for that matter.

It's getting old of you venting out your frustration about Manning and his fans literally every other posts. Time to quit on it.

[Guest nflfan014]

I haven't heard any Peyton fan say he's never had a bad game or made a bad play.  

 

This won't go anywhere, people including myself and others have already made the same point.  It is what it is.  There are Patriot fans that feel the same way about Belichick. 

[Superman]

To the first point...he didn't have a good game no matter how you slice it.  Even when they were up 24-0, Al Michaels and Chris Collinsworth said "If we were to tell you the Broncos were up 24-0 you'd think Peyton Manning was having a great game, when it's really Patriot mistakes and the running game."  Then Brady came back and scored 24 unanswered points.  When one QB wins AFC Offensive Player Of The Week in the game, throws spirals in the wind, 300 yards and 3 TDs and another is clearly uncomfortable to the point where Belichick kicks the ball off to him in overtime because he knows he won't put up any points, it's hard not to notice unless you're a Manning fan.

 

To the second point, when Manning loses, his fans and the media are quick to jump to his defense and blame teammates/coaches/anyone but him.  A few critics question him, but in general, it's not talked about, then next year he's the favorite to win it all again.  (For what it's worth, I don't think the SB was all his fault.  He played poorly, but the team didn't show up in general and were outmatched.)

 

No. Just no.

 

1) I never said he had a good game. I said the loss wasn't his fault, whether he was "comfortable" or not. And Belichick kicked the ball off because he wanted the wind, and it was a smart strategy. (It's also awesome how "Brady" scored 24 unanswered points, not "the Patriots." And it was actually 31 unanswered points.)

 

2) That's absolutely untrue, six ways to Sunday. 

[Guest nflfan014]

You are misinformed. You haven't read all my posts to make that comment or of other Manning fans for that matter.

It's getting old of you venting out your frustration about Manning and his fans literally every other posts. Time to quit on it.

 

I'm not implying anything by it or taking personal shots, like I said there are Patriot fans that feel the same way about Belichick.  When you're talking football, though, and one side refuses to admit any weaknesses, it's impossible to have a conversation.  But like I said, it won't go anywhere, all I'm saying is that it's ok to admit Peyton makes mistakes on the field and me pointing out a flaw in his game isn't "hating" him or having an agenda.

[Guest nflfan014]

Getting back to the original topic, though, I don't think it's a sickness for Manning to be so focused on football.  Didn't read the article, but there's nothing wrong with being a hard-worker, and last time I checked he has a wife and kids and a life outside of football.  I do think though that he loves the game so much that when he retires he'll be around in some capacity, even if it's an analyst.  Would be interesting to see him be like a Jaworski Xs and Os guy.

[Guest nflfan014]

No. Just no.

 

1) I never said he had a good game. I said the loss wasn't his fault, whether he was "comfortable" or not. And Belichick kicked the ball off because he wanted the wind, and it was a smart strategy. (It's also awesome how "Brady" scored 24 unanswered points, not "the Patriots." And it was actually 31 unanswered points.)

 

2) That's absolutely untrue, six ways to Sunday. 

I don't think it was his fault either, but I think Brady clearly had a better individual game that day just like Peyton did in the conference championship. 

 

Manning didn't have a good game, but the Broncos were undisciplined as a unit, and when you get two evenly matched teams, the home team usually comes out on top.

[Superman]

When they were down, it was Welker who was trying to rally the bench and saying "We're the greatest offense of all time, let's show them what we got" while Peyton sat there defeated.

 

LOL

 

So what? Is that the reason the Broncos lost, because Manning's demeanor on the sideline wasn't right?

 

Again, reasons are invented to explain why losses are Manning's fault, everything from he somehow prepares too hard, his facial expressions upset his offensive line, he uses the wrong kind of hair gel, he didn't invite the defensive line to his kids' birthday party, he's allergic to dandelions, the way he clips his fingernails makes the ball spin the wrong way, leading to drops by his receivers, the way he hands the ball off makes the RBs more likely to fumble...

 

Come on. This stuff couldn't possibly have less to do with how a team plays football.

[Guest nflfan014]

LOL

 

So what? Is that the reason the Broncos lost, because Manning's demeanor on the sideline wasn't right?

 

Again, reasons are invented to explain why losses are Manning's fault, everything from he somehow prepares too hard, his facial expressions upset his offensive line, he uses the wrong kind of hair gel, he didn't invite the defensive line to his kids' birthday party, he's allergic to dandelions, the way he clips his fingernails makes the ball spin the wrong way, leading to drops by his receivers, the way he hands the ball off makes the RBs more likely to fumble...

 

Come on. This stuff couldn't possibly have less to do with how a team plays football.

 

I don't think when he loses it's solely his fault.  I just think with the media and his diehard fans, there tends to be no criticism or a tendency to blame another player or coach etc..  No win or loss is solely on the quarterback.  My point is just that there's a tendency to blame someone else and make it seem like Peyton's some innocent bystander that threw 4 TDs/0 INTs and was let down by his team.  Like I also said, there are people that act the same way about Belichick in New England with his on and off field decisions/signings/etc..

[Superman]

I don't think it was his fault either, but I think Brady clearly had a better individual game that day just like Peyton did in the conference championship.  Manning didn't have a good game, but the Broncos were undisciplined as a unit, and when you get two evenly matched teams, the home team usually comes out on top.

 

So what? Where has anyone argued otherwise? After that game, I said plain and clear that Brady was better than Manning. 

 

I only resisted the idea that Manning had a "bad" game, that he was unable to perform in the wind and cold (he led a game tying TD drive, into the wind, including several throws down field). The Broncos didn't play well down the stretch, and several of the miscues had nothing to do with Manning, especially the mishandled punt. Unless you're going to find a way to blame him for that also. (I got it: Manning drives a gas guzzling SUV, leading to global warming, and that's the reason it was so windy that night, so it's his fault the punt got mishandled. Am I doing this right?)

 

The Pats started the game out poorly, the Broncos had some poor play of their own in trying to keep the lead, and two good teams wound up duking it out in overtime. The Pats offense stalled twice, the Broncos offense stalled twice, and the game came down to a funny bounce of the ball that went the Pats way. I said after the game that neither team really deserved to win, and that as the Pats lined up to punt, I expected a rare tie.

[Superman]

I don't think when he loses it's solely his fault.  I just think with the media and his diehard fans, there tends to be no criticism or a tendency to blame another player or coach etc..  No win or loss is solely on the quarterback.  My point is just that there's a tendency to blame someone else and make it seem like Peyton's some innocent bystander that threw 4 TDs/0 INTs and was let down by his team.  Like I also said, there are people that act the same way about Belichick in New England with his on and off field decisions/signings/etc..

 

That's not what happens. At all. It's the opposite of what happens.

 

Here's how it really goes: Manning's team loses, the headlines and commentary read "Manning fails in big game again." People who root for Manning point out how unfair it is to hang the loss at Manning's feet, people like you pretend that represents an inability or unwillingness to hold Manning accountable for poor play.

[Guest nflfan014]

That's not what happens. At all. It's the opposite of what happens.

 

Here's how it really goes: Manning's team loses, the headlines and commentary read "Manning fails in big game again." People who root for Manning point out how unfair it is to hang the loss at Manning's feet, people like you pretend that represents an inability or unwillingness to hold Manning accountable for poor play.

 

I honestly think the media is the problem with Manning.  You take away all the media stuff/fan stuff and just watch him, and he's an all-time great quarterback.  The media has a Manziel like love affair with him which rubs his non-fans the wrong way (you'd have to be a non Colts/Broncos/Peyton fan to understand) then talk about him non-stop, then the same media that builds him up is ironically creating the pressure and high standards that no QB could live up to.  Then people like me who are sick of the hype and don't really have anything against Manning as a person tune in to watch him lose in the playoffs, not because we have anything against him, but because all year we had to hear about him non-stop.

 

Like I also said in another thread, this isn't his fault, he doesn't ask for the publicity. 

[Superman]

That's why I added how he was benched when he wasn't hurt.

 

So because Brees was benched for three games a decade ago, that means he's overrated now?

[Superman]

I honestly think the media is the problem with Manning.  You take away all the media stuff/fan stuff and just watch him, and he's an all-time great quarterback.  The media has a Manziel like love affair with him which rubs his non-fans the wrong way (you'd have to be a non Colts/Broncos/Peyton fan to understand) then talk about him non-stop, then the same media that builds him up is ironically creating the pressure and high standards that no QB could live up to.  Then people like me who are sick of the hype and don't really have anything against Manning as a person tune in to watch him lose in the playoffs, not because we have anything against him, but because all year we had to hear about him non-stop.

 

Like I also said in another thread, this isn't his fault, he doesn't ask for the publicity. 

 

You're lurching from one poorly stated position to the next, and now we're completely away from the original topic. I'm tired of trying to keep up.

 

I'll just state that I disagree with your stance, and go on my merry way.

[Guest nflfan014]

You're lurching from one poorly stated position to the next, and now we're completely away from the original topic. I'm tired of trying to keep up.

 

I'll just state that I disagree with your stance, and go on my merry way.

 

I agree that we're not going to agree, and gave my stance on the original topic a few posts above...that I don't think there's anything wrong or "sick" about him being that hard-working. 

[southwest1]

The truth is though he came from his mother. So we need to understand HER better to understand Peyton.

 

(bad joke I know)

 

It makes sense with Archie's football background that he would gravitate toward his NFL father Jules, but I do agree on a small level that it is odd that 18 seldom mentions his mother Olivia in interviews. Maybe his mother prefers it that way. I can understand that. 

Here is one from April with Ball saying Manning had him playing scared,  http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/08/01/montee-ball-says-meticulous-peyton-manning-had-him-running-scared-last-season/

 

The one I am looking for though was from just after the Super Bowl with multiple players echoing Ball's sentiments. Will keep looking ...

"Trying to please the famously meticulous quarterback is enough to unnerve any rookie, even one who ran for an NCAA-record 83 touchdowns at Wisconsin.

 

He did a great job of calming me down, though, keeping me comfortable, working with me after practice," Ball said. "But I'm still a little nervous, of course. I'm only human."

 

LOL! I'd be nervous as hades with Manning barking orders at me too actually. Like taking a PH.D. graduate crash course on football formations.

 

Whoa, I did a good job on blitz pickup protection. Peyton said so. A bizarre grin unfolds on my face.

 

Hang in there Ball. It will get better. Not easier just better. ;)  

[southwest1]

It's getting old of you venting out your frustration about Manning and his fans literally every other posts. Time to quit on it.

Yeah, some of my friends on here were probably thinking the exact same thing about me after the Broncos SB loss & my commentary on Manning's post press conference too Shane. LOL! 

 

In fairness to everyone on here. I will do my best to let it go & give 18 a clean slate in September. I owe him that. 

 

I know that post was not directed at me personally, but nevertheless, I will take it as a necessary reminder for my own benefit. Enough said. We all deserve 2nd chances & annual clean slates especially Manning.

 

If I didn't slam Tom Brady for losing 2 SBs, I shouldn't do it to Peyton either. I just know what he's capable of & that window to get a 2nd ring is growing smaller not wider anymore that's why I get so frustrated.

 

Okay, I'm done ranting now. Thanks for your patience everyone.  

[Girlzarefanstoo]

I don't think when he loses it's solely his fault.  I just think with the media and his diehard fans, there tends to be no criticism or a tendency to blame another player or coach etc..  No win or loss is solely on the quarterback.  My point is just that there's a tendency to blame someone else and make it seem like Peyton's some innocent bystander that threw 4 TDs/0 INTs and was let down by his team.  Like I also said, there are people that act the same way about Belichick in New England with his on and off field decisions/signings/etc..

I'm going to give you a communications tip (free of charge).  Don't use terms like: never, always, no one, none.  You're almost ALWAYS wrong when you use them. 

 

Try: often people say... sometimes... frequently even.  

 

You are completely in the wrong when you say there is "no criticism," there is all kinds of it.  

 

And lest you think I'm a diehard Manning fan, while I think Peyton is a good QB, even great, I'm definitely not a card carrying member of his fan club since he came to our division, LOL.  

[southwest1]

I have followed different sports, including cricket and tennis.

 

There are usually 2 kinds of folks who shine - one who is a technician, who does things by the book that gets applause from all the pundits, one whose fundamentals are so solid that he does not have an off day easily and has a very high floor.

 

The second type of guy is someone whose fundamentals are not as close enough to the first guy but when the chips are down, he improvizes and adapts, and rises to the occasion.

 

Ivan Lendl used to be one of those guys of the first kind, extreme amounts of hard work and high fundamentals and floor. Then came guys like John McEnroe and Boris Becker, whose fundamentals were not sound in all phases but had supreme talent and improvization skills. Then came the Agassi, Sampras era, followed by one Roger Federer. Agassi described a loss to Federer at the US Open final as "you know with Pete (referring to Sampras), once you take your game to a certain level, you can match his ceiling but with Roger, he adapts and improvizes so much that it puts you behind the 8 ball easily even if you play your best because you don't know how he will adapt."

 

Peyton is the high fundamentals high floor guy with less improvization abilities. Then, you have the Boris Beckers and John McEnroe like Eli Manning and Big Ben who do not make it to the playoffs/finals all the time with a high fundamentals/focus approach but their improvization skills and rising to the challenge abilities (even Flacco lately) help them/their team gain that extra oomph because opponents cannot plan for it. Elite teams feel they can match the ceiling of Peyton because he is predictable given certain looks that he will go a certain way. He won't do anything they are not expecting and they try to do something Peyton's team is not expecting and more often than not, it works (also an indictment on the coaching Peyton has been surrounded with). That is sometimes the difference between a close win and a close loss, that little element of lancelot.

 

Brady's improvization is just a bit subtle over Peyton (QB sneaks is one clear thing he always did over Peyton) but he did master the art of turning the ball over less in the playoffs without pressing earlier than Peyton (also because of the team and coaching around him) due to which he has had more playoff success earlier. In the modern era, Brady is like Peyton (7-7 in the playoffs since his 10-0 start) due to the higher levels of improvization that teams with QBs like Rodgers, Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck etc. bring and once those QBs play complete games without turning it over (Wilson and Rodgers are already there, IMO), their improvization can do the rest.

 

Not a knock on Brees, he does turn it over less in the playoffs than in the regular season but I do think he benefits immensely from Sean Payton being the great offensive mind that he is (and to Brees' credit, he is on the same page every single time as Sean Payton). Sean Payton's offensive improvization will keep the Saints in games vs tough opponents like the Seahawks last year, and even when the Saints lose, it is seldom by more than 1 score lately (Seahawks twice by 1 score, 49ers by 1 score vs Alex Smith etc. all on the road).

Interesting tennis analysis there Chad. I've never seen that applied to NFL football before. If Eli Manning is Boris Becker, does that mean that Brady Pete Sampras & Peyton Manning Andre Agassi then? 

 

Great entry to read BTW & fascinating to boot. I have no idea how much merit to give this post, but I enjoyed skimming through it. 

 

Whose Steffi Graf then with more titles or rings than everybody else? Charles Haley...

[chad72]

Interesting tennis analysis there Chad. I've never seen that applied to NFL football before. If Eli Manning is Boris Becker, does that mean that Brady Pete Sampras & Peyton Manning Andre Agassi then? 

 

Great entry to read BTW & fascinating to boot. I have no idea how much merit to give this post, but I enjoyed skimming through it. 

 

Whose Steffi Graf then with more titles or rings than everybody else? Charles Haley...

 

 

Peyton is very much like Ivan Lendl, to an extent Brady is too, the big difference is the team support Brady had in the early years for his 10-0 start. Lendl would get to the Grand Slam finals consistently several times but then, guys who go for broke like Boris Becker and Pat Cash (yeah, that Aussie whose only Grand Slam win was Wimbledon beating Lendl) or an inspired Jimmy Connors or Johnny Mac would beat him to deny Wimbledon or the US Open. He finally broke through and won his fair share but it was painstaking because he lost 6 out of his first 7 Grand Slam final appearances before winning 7 out his next 12 Grand Slam final appearances.

[southwest1]

Peyton is very much like Ivan Lendl, to an extent Brady is too, the big difference is the team support Brady had in the early years for his 10-0 start. Lendl would get to the Grand Slam finals consistently several times but then, guys who go for broke like Boris Becker and Pat Cash (yeah, that Aussie whose only Grand Slam win was Wimbledon beating Lendl) or an inspired Jimmy Connors or Johnny Mac would beat him to deny Wimbledon or the US Open. He finally broke through and won his fair share but it was painstaking because he lost 6 out of his first 7 Grand Slam final appearances before winning 7 out his next 12 Grand Slam final appearances.

Thanks for the clarification Chad. I appreciate it. You always write intriguing posts my friend. Keep it up. Thank you. 

 

You really know your tennis man. Very impressive! I admired Boris Becker the guy was relentless running up & down the court. He's nowhere near Andre Agassi talent wise, but he [boris] left everything he had on the clay or grass court. 

 

1 tough German player that's for sure just like some tenacious dude in the NFL named Andrew Luck. 

[BloodyChamp]

So because Brees was benched for three games a decade ago, that means he's overrated now?

No, but because of that, the other games he was benched and the fact that he stayed hurt often before this era means he's overrated now.

[Superman]

No, but because of that, the other games he was benched and the fact that he stayed hurt often before this era means he's overrated now.

 

None of that has anything to do with how he's played now.

 

This era... In this era, just like every other QB who is in the league or has been in the league the past ten years, Drew Brees is simply one of the best and most productive passers.

[BloodyChamp]

None of that has anything to do with how he's played now.

This era... In this era, just like every other QB who is in the league or has been in the league the past ten years, Drew Brees is simply one of the best and most productive passers.

It used to be harder to play quarterback and Drew Brees sucked.

Now it's easier to play quarterback and Drew Brees doesn't suck as bad.

Could you say that about Peyton, Eli and Brady? Plus other truly great ones who are retired but still played at the same level in both eras like Favre and Warner?

[Shane Bond]

Peyton is very much like Ivan Lendl, to an extent Brady is too, the big difference is the team support Brady had in the early years for his 10-0 start. Lendl would get to the Grand Slam finals consistently several times but then, guys who go for broke like Boris Becker and Pat Cash (yeah, that Aussie whose only Grand Slam win was Wimbledon beating Lendl) or an inspired Jimmy Connors or Johnny Mac would beat him to deny Wimbledon or the US Open. He finally broke through and won his fair share but it was painstaking because he lost 6 out of his first 7 Grand Slam final appearances before winning 7 out his next 12 Grand Slam final appearances.

My all time favorite player. I even told my folks that i would name my son Lendl. I remember every single moment of those games.

 

Even his first grand slam victory, he was down by 2 sets to John McEnroe and won in 5 sets. Ironically, thats the only Grand Slam John couldnt win ( French Open ). He was just a set away. Still in my mind the best year a singles player has ever had ( 82-3 ).

[southwest1]

Getting back to the original topic, though, I don't think it's a sickness for Manning to be so focused on football.  Didn't read the article, but there's nothing wrong with being a hard-worker, and last time I checked he has a wife and kids and a life outside of football.  I do think though that he loves the game so much that when he retires he'll be around in some capacity, even if it's an analyst.  Would be interesting to see him be like a Jaworski Xs and Os guy.

Peyton, when he does hang his cleats up for good, will be working as a pundit on NFL CBS chilling right next to his idol...okay, 2nd idol to his father Archie...Dan Marino. I can see it as clear as day sandwiched next to HOF TE Shannon Sharpe on the studio set. 

[southwest1]

My all time favorite player. I even told my folks that i would name my son Lendl. I remember every single moment of those games.

 

Even his first grand slam victory, he was down by 2 sets to John McEnroe and won in 5 sets. Ironically, thats the only Grand Slam John couldnt win ( French Open ). He was just a set away. Still in my mind the best year a singles player has ever had ( 82-3 ).

Cool story Shane, but you might wanna double check with your future wife on that Lendi name 1st. You'll probably be okay if you have 2 kids. She names the girl & you get to name the boy. Just kidding buddy!  ;)

[Shane Bond]

Peyton, when he does hang his cleats up for good, will be working as a pundit on NFL CBS chilling right next to his idol...okay, 2nd idol to his father Archie...Dan Marino. I can see it as clear as day sandwiched next to HOF TE Shannon Sharpe on the studio set. 

You do realize both Marino and Sharpe are fired now .

 

I am sure Peyton will form his own studio and have them both  .

[southwest1]

You do realize both Marino and Sharpe are fired now .

 

I am sure Peyton will form his own studio and have them both  .

Ha! Ha! Good point Peyton has so much dough from commercial endorsements alone that he could buy NFL on CBS & rename it Studio 18 not to be confused with Studio 54 located in NY in the late 70's & early 80's. 

 

Now, I am trying not to picture Manning dancing under a disco ball to the song "Ooh I, I love the night life. I got to boogie on the disco 'round, oh yeah. Oh, I love the night life. I got to boogie on the disco 'round, oh yeah" by Alicia Bridges. 

 

It's funny trying to visualize Peyton in 70's fashions under a large suspended mirror ball attempting to get down man. LOL! Studio 54 made me think of Manning in a time warp actually.

 

Just google the song "I love the night life" on you tube & try & picture Peyton on the floor getting his groove on...

[southwest1]

You do realize both Marino and Sharpe are fired now .

 

I am sure Peyton will form his own studio and have them both  .

The other thing I would really look forward to is once Manning becomes an on air personality Peyton would be compelled to be publicly critical of a coach or athlete currently playing. I've never heard Peyton say a negative word about anybody which is why it would make for great must see TV LIVE...

 

Well, there is 1 kicker 18 rightly put in his place as I recall...

 

[mycou1992]

Success is not depend on luck, I think I need to learn from him.

[sweetsurrender]

It used to be harder to play quarterback and Drew Brees sucked.

Now it's easier to play quarterback and Drew Brees doesn't suck as bad.

Could you say that about Peyton, Eli and Brady? Plus other truly great ones who are retired but still played at the same level in both eras like Favre and Warner?

The reason why Brees turned into an elite QB after his days in SD is because of Sean Payton and his own hard work and growth as a player. Nothing to do with the rules. He has played the majority of his career under the new rules.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Ha! Ha! Good point Peyton has so much dough from commercial endorsements alone that he could buy NFL on CBS & rename it Studio 18 not to be confused with Studio 54 located in NY in the late 70's & early 80's. 

 

Now, I am trying not to picture Manning dancing under a disco ball to the song "Ooh I, I love the night life. I got to boogie on the disco 'round, oh yeah. Oh, I love the night life. I got to boogie on the disco 'round, oh yeah" by Alicia Bridges. 

 

It's funny trying to visualize Peyton in 70's fashions under a large suspended mirror ball attempting to get down man. LOL! Studio 54 made me think of Manning in a time warp actually.

 

Just google the song "I love the night life" on you tube & try & picture Peyton on the floor getting his groove on...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ha6xepZ-U

[amfootball]

LOL

 

So what? Is that the reason the Broncos lost, because Manning's demeanor on the sideline wasn't right?

 

Again, reasons are invented to explain why losses are Manning's fault, everything from he somehow prepares too hard, his facial expressions upset his offensive line, he uses the wrong kind of hair gel, he didn't invite the defensive line to his kids' birthday party, he's allergic to dandelions, the way he clips his fingernails makes the ball spin the wrong way, leading to drops by his receivers, the way he hands the ball off makes the RBs more likely to fumble...

 

Come on. This stuff couldn't possibly have less to do with how a team plays football.

You have to admit though that Super Bowl was strange. From the first play on, Manning looked defeated, Fox looked clueless. The only guys that seemed to have any passion at all were Champ Bailey and Welker at least based on the FX film. It was surreal to watch. Seattle came out in their base defense and dared Denver to score on them and it was like Denver did not know who they were playing and made no adjustments. It just got worse and worse as they game went on to the point that Fox was praying for Wilson to throw a pick and then says after the game that they were not even prepared for the noise.

[BloodyChamp]

The reason why Brees turned into an elite QB after his days in SD is because of Sean Payton and his own hard work and growth as a player. Nothing to do with the rules. He has played the majority of his career under the new rules.

It has everything to do with the rules. If there is anything besides the rules that it has to do with, it's that little thing called Bountygate.

[Shane Bond]

You have to admit though that Super Bowl was strange. From the first play on, Manning looked defeated, Fox looked clueless. The only guys that seemed to have any passion at all were Champ Bailey and Welker at least based on the FX film. It was surreal to watch. Seattle came out in their base defense and dared Denver to score on them and it was like Denver did not know who they were playing and made no adjustments. It just got worse and worse as they game went on to the point that Fox was praying for Wilson to throw a pick and then says after the game that they were not even prepared for the noise.

Better team won clearly but calling Manning looked defeated is a stretch. He was * alright.

[sweetsurrender]

It has everything to do with the rules. If there is anything besides the rules that it has to do with, it's that little thing called Bountygate.

How would Bountygate have helped Brees? That was the defensive players on the Saints.

[Shane Bond]

How would Bountygate have helped Brees? That was the defensive players on the Saints.

I think you are not this naive about football.

Brees plays for the same team their defense plays. More the defense gets turnovers less the worry for offense to score points.

Saints shouldn't have gone past Vikings in the NFC championship. The beating Favre took was ridiculous and they were punished rightfully.

[BloodyChamp]

O...the "how does the defense have anything to do with Brees" argument. Hey - the game was only tied after the Saints CHEATED. It took this to finally beat the Vikings that day, which was an offensive play.

[sweetsurrender]

I think you are not this naive about football.

Brees plays for the same team their defense plays. More the defense gets turnovers less the worry for offense to score points.

Saints shouldn't have gone past Vikings in the NFC championship. The beating Favre took was ridiculous and they were punished rightfully.

Did the Saints led the league in turnovers or time of possession from the time Brees got there?

[sweetsurrender]

O...the "how does the defense have anything to do with Brees" argument. Hey - the game was only tied after the Saints CHEATED. It took this to finally beat the Vikings that day, which was an offensive play.

You must have missed Favre's pick?