If Peyton Left The Colts

[Mexicolt]

I was so sure Manining would be back with the Colts, I even posted it here on a very long thread, but I just don't see it happening anymore.

The Colts will draft Andrew Luck, this team is bad, lacks talent everywhere and I don't actually think this can be turned around in one year,rebuilding sounds more likely and Luck seems to be the perfect fit

I hear Manning would leave peacefully if the Colts draft Luck, and I believe the Colts would give him the chance to chose what team to play for, out of those seeking the trade (I believe PM is worth two first round picks, maybe one of theose could be a future pick, anyway, where do you think he could go?

I think Jets and Niners make the most sense

[tonychen]

I was so sure Manining would be back with the Colts, I even posted it here on a very long thread, but I just don't see it happening anymore.

The Colts will draft Andrew Luck, this team is bad, lacks talent everywhere and I don't actually think this can be turned around in one year,rebuilding sounds more likely and Luck seems to be the perfect fit

I hear Manning would leave peacefully if the Colts draft Luck, and I believe the Colts would give him the chance to chose what team to play for, out of those seeking the trade (I believe PM is worth two first round picks, maybe one of theose could be a future pick, anyway, where do you think he could go?

I think Jets and Niners make the most sense

Jets, not the Niners since he will not want to compete with his brother. Then in which year there will be the SB in Jets stadium?

[objectivecoltsfan]

I was so sure Manining would be back with the Colts, I even posted it here on a very long thread, but I just don't see it happening anymore.

The Colts will draft Andrew Luck, this team is bad, lacks talent everywhere and I don't actually think this can be turned around in one year,rebuilding sounds more likely and Luck seems to be the perfect fit

I hear Manning would leave peacefully if the Colts draft Luck, and I believe the Colts would give him the chance to chose what team to play for, out of those seeking the trade (I believe PM is worth two first round picks, maybe one of theose could be a future pick, anyway, where do you think he could go?

I think Jets and Niners make the most sense

No one is going to give up 2 first round picks for a 35 year old QB coming off his 3rd neck surgery.

[Zebra3]

If the team is truly this bad, drafting luck will *not* help. You could draft the very best QB ever to play the game (oh, wait we already did), but without an O-line to protect and receivers to throw to, that QB will spend his 1st season flat on his back, and ultimately that QB will lose confidence in his ability and be broken. A broken QB, even potentially the best QB ever, is still a broken QB and difficult to fix. If the Colts are truly as bad as some thing, then we ought to be all about finding an adequate veteran QB for next season and rebuilding the teams from the lines up through the draft and free agency. Drafting Luck to replace Peyton does not in any way guarantee success. It places a ridiculous burden on Luck's shoulders, and saddles the team with another large contract that leaves precious little room for maneuver when it comes to rebuilding the lines, the secondary and receiver corps.

[Dtman513]

What's with all this talk about Manning not in a Colts uniform next year? It's all nonsense .....He'll be back next year, no way is he gonna let his career in Indy die with him on the sideline

[Coltsman1788]

If the team is truly this bad, drafting luck will *not* help. You could draft the very best QB ever to play the game (oh, wait we already did), but without an O-line to protect and receivers to throw to, that QB will spend his 1st season flat on his back, and ultimately that QB will lose confidence in his ability and be broken. A broken QB, even potentially the best QB ever, is still a broken QB and difficult to fix. If the Colts are truly as bad as some thing, then we ought to be all about finding an adequate veteran QB for next season and rebuilding the teams from the lines up through the draft and free agency. Drafting Luck to replace Peyton does not in any way guarantee success. It places a ridiculous burden on Luck's shoulders, and saddles the team with another large contract that leaves precious little room for maneuver when it comes to rebuilding the lines, the secondary and receiver corps.

However, unlike with Manning whatever problems we have wouldn't necessarily have to be fixed right away. You have time to completely rebuild the team with Luck as the QB because if he pans out he would be playing for 10-12 years. We would have plenty of drafts & offseasons to rebuild the lines, secondary, etc during all of that time. More money will become available in the future when Manning's salary comes off the rolls. Luck is not for instant gratification it is a draft pick aimed at building up the post-Manning era Colts. You have to envision a completely different Colts team around him than the one that has been custom built for Peyton. There are no guarantees with Luck but there never are for anyone ever drafted into the league (incl. Peyton Manning). Still that is the rationale behind such a move.

Now, If we want to have our best shot at winning in the short run then Manning (if healthy) is our best bet but we have less time to fix all that ails this team because his window is closing. We can only hope to use our remaining picks to fortify the team as much as possible and rely again on Peyton to try and cover the warts.

Also Manning & Luck are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Just because the Colts take Luck doesn't mean that they will chuck Peyton outside with the trash. If healthy it should still be Peyton's show for the next 3 or so years after which the keys can be handed over assuming injury doesn't force our hand before then.

[objectivecoltsfan]

What's with all this talk about Manning not in a Colts uniform next year? It's all nonsense.....He'll be back next year, no way is he gonna let his career in Indy die with him on the sideline

It's probably not going to be up to him.

[Moose Of Woe]

You have to envision a completely different Colts team around him than the one that has been custom built for Peyton.

Custom built for Peyton? Yeah we sure got him a nice rusty Ford Pento with a bell or whistle here and there. (Marvin, Freeney) Good thing he squeezed an absurd MPG out of it.

Hopefully we get a new GM/coach and actually build a REAL team this time. You know, one not relying on one guy to do 70% of the work with a few good players and a mountain of garbage to carry.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Moose Of Woe

[utall]

History repeats itself. Check out Polian's history of having a really good defensive team. Check out the protection the last two years for PM. Why do you think he's hurt. It is not BP fault according to him. It is not BP fault for anything. I remember PM saying that to win any game in the NFL is really hard to do. What we are seeing is without PM BP is crap. And you think it will change with AL playing for the Colts.

[utall]

History repeats itself. Check out Polian's history of having a really good defensive team. Check out the protection the last two years for PM. Why do you think he's hurt. It is not BP fault according to him. It is not BP fault for anything. I remember PM saying that to win any game in the NFL is really hard to do. What we are seeing is without PM BP is crap. And you think it will change with AL playing for the Colts.

I was not done. BP certainly thinks it will. I feel sorry for the team.

[ihavenoclue74]

I can not believe how quick everyone is to turn on PM, and jump on the AL bandwagon. Letting PM go is not neccissarliy the right answer, but drafting now for his replacement is a step in the right direction. Even if the Colts do draft AL, it does not mean they have to let PM go. Think about if AL were to sit behind PM for a couple years learning from one of the best, that might just make AL that much better. I seems to have worked in Green Bay with Rodgers sitting behing Farve for a couple of years!!!!!!. Plus it does not seem to help that Tom Moore and Howard Mudd are gone the same year Manning is hurt. I believe that those were two key pieces of this offense other then just PM and are surely missed this year.

[Coltsman1788]

Custom built for Peyton? Yeah we sure got him a nice rusty Ford Pento with a bell or whistle here and there. (Marvin, Freeney) Good thing he squeezed an absurd MPG out of it.

Hopefully we get a new GM/coach and actually build a REAL team this time. You know, one not relying on one guy to do 70% of the work with a few good players and a mountain of garbage to carry.

Custom built in terms of the offensive system centered around Peyton and his unique style of quarterbacking with all the audibling, calling own plays, line adjustments, etc. Also the defense was built to play with a lead and rush the opposing qb also a direct effect of having Manning. Team pretty much can't function without Peyton because the whole thing is centered around him. Like I heard some guy on ESPN radio say last week, "the Indy offense right now is a UFO and only Peyton can fly it."

[WSO]

I can not believe how quick everyone is to turn on PM, and jump on the AL bandwagon. Letting PM go is not neccissarliy the right answer, but drafting now for his replacement is a step in the right direction. Even if the Colts do draft AL, it does not mean they have to let PM go. Think about if AL were to sit behind PM for a couple years learning from one of the best, that might just make AL that much better. I seems to have worked in Green Bay with Rodgers sitting behing Farve for a couple of years!!!!!!. Plus it does not seem to help that Tom Moore and Howard Mudd are gone the same year Manning is hurt. I believe that those were two key pieces of this offense other then just PM and are surely missed this year.

I was just like you, big fan of Luck and drafting him and having him learn under Manning until I started reading more of another poster here (Jason) and he was stating reasons as to why we shouldn't draft Luck or if we do, he can't sit behind Manning. The reason Luck is the number 1 pick is because he is the most NFL ready quarterback since Manning ironically. Luck can come in day 1 and play at the NFL level because of the style of offense he plays at Stanford. He has the tools to do it. It would not be smart to bench an NFL ready QB for 3 or 4 years to sit behind Manning. That is a lot of wasted potential.

The problem is, Rodgers wasn't drafted 1st overall, he sat behind Favre because the Packers knew he wasn't going to come in day 1 and play. Picking 1st overall and in the late 20's is a huge difference. You can't compare a Manning->Luck transition to Favre->Rodgers. Even if Rodgers didn't pan out, the Packers wouldn't get burned too badly because a mid 20s pick not panning out is not uncommon.

I want to make it clear I have no problem drafting Luck but realistically if the Colts draft Luck, there is a fair chance Manning won't be back.

Edited November 8, 2011 by ssarow

[Jaric]

If the team is truly this bad, drafting luck will *not* help. You could draft the very best QB ever to play the game (oh, wait we already did), but without an O-line to protect and receivers to throw to, that QB will spend his 1st season flat on his back, and ultimately that QB will lose confidence in his ability and be broken. A broken QB, even potentially the best QB ever, is still a broken QB and difficult to fix. If the Colts are truly as bad as some thing, then we ought to be all about finding an adequate veteran QB for next season and rebuilding the teams from the lines up through the draft and free agency. Drafting Luck to replace Peyton does not in any way guarantee success. It places a ridiculous burden on Luck's shoulders, and saddles the team with another large contract that leaves precious little room for maneuver when it comes to rebuilding the lines, the secondary and receiver corps.

I don't know, the team that drafted Manning was pretty terrible and he turned out ok.

Also, he'd be under rookie contract which means it's not that much comparatively.

[Jaric]

I can not believe how quick everyone is to turn on PM, and jump on the AL bandwagon. Letting PM go is not neccissarliy the right answer, but drafting now for his replacement is a step in the right direction. Even if the Colts do draft AL, it does not mean they have to let PM go. Think about if AL were to sit behind PM for a couple years learning from one of the best, that might just make AL that much better. I seems to have worked in Green Bay with Rodgers sitting behing Farve for a couple of years!!!!!!. Plus it does not seem to help that Tom Moore and Howard Mudd are gone the same year Manning is hurt. I believe that those were two key pieces of this offense other then just PM and are surely missed this year.

I don't think anyone is turning on Manning. In fact this season I think everyone realizes just how good he is.

But he is also on the wrong side of 30 and we have to face reality. Maybe not next year but soon. People see a chance to address the most important position in football with (according to most everyone I've heard) the best college QB prospect ever. Can he bust? Of course he can. Any player can bust, but that doesn't mean you don't draft someone because it's technically possible they might not pan out.

[Andy]

suicide would become an option.... nah jk, but it would suck. Would like to ride him out until he's got nothing in the tank. Let's not rely on a rookie QB to make that big of a splash in his first year.

[Zebra3]

I don't know, the team that drafted Manning was pretty terrible and he turned out ok.

Also, he'd be under rookie contract which means it's not that much comparatively.

The exception does not make the rule. Many promising early round picks at QB have been ruined by their trial by fire in the NFL. You can't put a fresh faced rookie in and let them endure 50+ sacks a year and expect that nothing will change in them. But, I know you're going to argue the opposite to whatever I post, so it's all good. Maybe slotting the 1st pick QB into a terrible team works in Madden, in the NFL it's a meat grinder. Once again, you can put Peyton up as the exception to this is you wish, but the exception does not make the rule.

[mouthofsouth]

Manning will be the qb for 4 more years and mentor Luck.

[Fx Stryker]

The only way you see Peyton out of a Colt uniform is when he hangs up his cleats.

[Jason_]

Manning will be the qb for 4 more years and mentor Luck.

No chance that happens. Why would Luck want to waste the first 1/4 of his career on the bench. Sitting for 1 year...maybe. Any more than that is not gonna happen. People can keep dreaming that Luck will be fine with sitting on the bench for 4 years, but it won't happen. <--my opinion

IMO, it's either Manning or Luck. People say we can draft him and pull the Favre to Rodgers transition but there are a lot of differences between the 2 scenarios. Luck may feel he's prepared to play from day 1 and not want to sit on the bench waiting for Manning to retire....see Eli Manning. I don't know the exact reasons behind him refusing to sign with SD but I believe it had a lot to do with them still having Drew Brees and they were unsure what they were going to do with him. On the other hand the NYG had Warner who was never going to be a long-term solution for them so Eli knew he would get playing time sooner with NYG. Honestly, I think this may have been what Eli meant in the recent interview where he told Luck to make his own luck. If the Colts are at #1 and Manning is healthy then no way Luck is going to see any playing time. Luck could refuse to sign instead opting to go to Miami or Washington where he'll be able to start right away and not spend the first 1/4 of his career on the bench.

Wanting both Luck and Manning is a prime example of trying to have your cake and eat it too. I just don't think it will work. What if Manning comes back healthy, plays out his contract and isn't ready to retire at the end of that contract? I know he's said this would be his last contract but he's the ultimate competitor and he's human so it's entirely possible he could change his mind.

Luck's money could also be affected. What I mean is that the rookie contract is basically the team's opportunity to have the player on the team for 4-5 years (I believe this is the typical length now for rookie contracts) and see how they transition to the pros and make them earn their big pay day. If Manning comes back and you draft Luck, then Luck is riding out his rookie contract on the bench. Therefore the team has no idea what he's really capable of in-game so they're taking a huge risk if they re-sign him to a big pay day (like a #1 overall pick is going to want) without getting able to see him actually on the field.

They also have to consider how the locker room is going to react if they spend the #1 pick on a guy who isn't going to help them win now. Phil Simms said Manning wouldn't let the Colts draft Luck. I don't believe this but I could definitely see him (and the other vets like Freeney, Saturday, Wayne, Clark, Mathis etc) being very upset about it. Why would Wayne and Mathis want to re-sign for what will probably be their final contract with a team who isn't committed to winning now? In fact just a week or so ago, the NFL Sunday countdown crew were discussing this and Chris Carter mentioned how he was upset at the drafting of Daunte Culpepper in Minnesota because Culpepper didn't help him win "now". I'm not saying that was entirely the reason, but that turned out to be Carter's last year with Minnesota.

I think you have to commit to one or the other....either commit to Manning or commit to Luck. If you commit to Manning, that doesn't mean you can't still draft a QB this year if they feel the need to. Though if Manning is coming back expecting to play out his contract then I think they could still wait a year or even 2. However they could still draft more of a project type QB and that's not a bad thing. That's what teams do when they expect to have 3-4 years before having to start the QB. There are guys like Nick Foles, Ryan Tannehill, RG3 etc who will be available later and I honestly don't think that any player picked beyond, say, the top 20 can really expect to be starting right away. Evaluate these guys and see what kind of talent they have and what kind of potential you think they have. What are the weaknesses and which one has the most correctable weaknesses.

so there you go...my opinion on the matter. A healthy Manning and Andrew Luck will not be on the same team together. Now go ahead Luck-lovers, rip my post apart and talk about how buddy-buddy Luck and Manning are and how Luck would feel privileged to learn behind the best and the Manning and Luck families are close friends and blah blah but I call nonsense. Luck is a competitor and will want to be on the field. 3-4 years on the bench for a #1 overall pick will not happen. If Luck is drafted, then that means Manning hasn't returned to 100%. If at some point after that Manning does return to 100%, Luck gets traded. The team has to make the choice and no one within the organization has a louder or more powerful voice than Jim Irsay, and he's already gone on record as saying (yes, he could change his mind) that he retires when Peyton retires. Based on Irsay's tendencies through the past several years I tend to take him at his word on this. If Manning is back to full health I believe he retires a Colt.

All that said, even if Manning isn't back to full health, I'd still trade the #1 to whoever sits at #2 if they're willing to move up. Take as many extra picks as I can in 2012 and in future drafts. Take Barkley instead and use all the extra picks acquired to help build a more complete team around Barkley. This would give us a much better chance to get back on the road to winning than taking Luck and squandering the opportunity to fleece a team for the number of draft picks it will cost to move into the #1 spot.

[oldunclemark]

I was so sure Manining would be back with the Colts, I even posted it here on a very long thread, but I just don't see it happening anymore.

The Colts will draft Andrew Luck, this team is bad, lacks talent everywhere and I don't actually think this can be turned around in one year,rebuilding sounds more likely and Luck seems to be the perfect fit

I hear Manning would leave peacefully if the Colts draft Luck, and I believe the Colts would give him the chance to chose what team to play for, out of those seeking the trade (I believe PM is worth two first round picks, maybe one of theose could be a future pick, anyway, where do you think he could go?

I think Jets and Niners make the most sense

Luck for Revis :heh:

[dn4192]

If the team is truly this bad, drafting luck will *not* help. You could draft the very best QB ever to play the game (oh, wait we already did), but without an O-line to protect and receivers to throw to, that QB will spend his 1st season flat on his back, and ultimately that QB will lose confidence in his ability and be broken. A broken QB, even potentially the best QB ever, is still a broken QB and difficult to fix. If the Colts are truly as bad as some thing, then we ought to be all about finding an adequate veteran QB for next season and rebuilding the teams from the lines up through the draft and free agency. Drafting Luck to replace Peyton does not in any way guarantee success. It places a ridiculous burden on Luck's shoulders, and saddles the team with another large contract that leaves precious little room for maneuver when it comes to rebuilding the lines, the secondary and receiver corps.

It's 1 of the things you need to address. You use your other picks to continue to address the issues you have. But without a QB you can have all the talent you want on the roster, you still won't be an elite team.

[dn4192]

Custom built for Peyton? Yeah we sure got him a nice rusty Ford Pento with a bell or whistle here and there. (Marvin, Freeney) Good thing he squeezed an absurd MPG out of it.

Hopefully we get a new GM/coach and actually build a REAL team this time. You know, one not relying on one guy to do 70% of the work with a few good players and a mountain of garbage to carry.

A "real" team? WTH did we have for the past decade? OMG do we have jadded fans here or what...

[DILLIGAFER]

A "real" team? WTH did we have for the past decade? OMG do we have jadded fans here or what...

A mediocre team with an elite quarter back. That's what we had.

[dn4192]

History repeats itself. Check out Polian's history of having a really good defensive team. Check out the protection the last two years for PM. Why do you think he's hurt. It is not BP fault according to him. It is not BP fault for anything. I remember PM saying that to win any game in the NFL is really hard to do. What we are seeing is without PM BP is crap. And you think it will change with AL playing for the Colts.

Peyton got hurt because he plays in the most violent game on the planet.

[dn4192]

A mediocre team with an elite quarter back. That's what we had.

Well that is what the Packers have right now with Aaron Rogers, that is what the Pats have with their QB, that is what the Saints have with their QB.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Well that is what the Packers have right now with Aaron Rogers, that is what the Pats have with their QB, that is what the Saints have with their QB.

Now this is just plain ridiculous.

The Patriots won their Super Bowls because of their #6, #1, & #2 ranked defenses. The Packers #2 ranked defense carried them much of last season and the Saints have one of the best offensive lines ever assembled. All of these teams have some of the best sets of receivers in the league today.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Blue Horseshoe

[Jaric]

The exception does not make the rule. Many promising early round picks at QB have been ruined by their trial by fire in the NFL. You can't put a fresh faced rookie in and let them endure 50+ sacks a year and expect that nothing will change in them. But, I know you're going to argue the opposite to whatever I post, so it's all good. Maybe slotting the 1st pick QB into a terrible team works in Madden, in the NFL it's a meat grinder. Once again, you can put Peyton up as the exception to this is you wish, but the exception does not make the rule.

Really? We're breaking out the Madden line? It's fine to disagree with me, but you don't have to insult my intelligence in the process.

And by the way, through 9 games we've given up 16 sacks. That projects to about 28 for the year. Nearly half of what you're so concerned about a rookie taking. This is with Kerry Collins who makes Drew Bledsoe look mobile and Curtis Painter who is for all intents and purposes a rookie (and is also terrible). We just drafted what appear to be bookend tackles who will be back next year. The offensive line is far from a finished product, but I see no reason to believe they will be giving up 50 sacks next season regardless of who is behind center.

Not to mention that one of Luck's strengths is his mobility which will help him elude pass rushers.

But yeah, I'm just playing Madden.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Jaric

[Deano1818]

This is a tough choice

Manning was the cog that took a joke franchise to a winning franchise

It's these days I think about the playoff losses because we were a player or two away from winning 4 or 5 super bowls

[Zebra3]

Really? We're breaking out the Madden line? It's fine to disagree with me, but you don't have to insult my intelligence in the process.

And by the way, through 9 games we've given up 16 sacks. That projects to about 28 for the year. Nearly half of what you're so concerned about a rookie taking. This is with Kerry Collins who makes Drew Bledsoe look mobile and Curtis Painter who is for all intents and purposes a rookie (and is also terrible). We just drafted what appear to be bookend tackles who will be back next year. The offensive line is far from a finished product, but I see no reason to believe they will be giving up 50 sacks next season regardless of who is behind center.

Not to mention that one of Luck's strengths is his mobility which will help him elude pass rushers.

But yeah, I'm just playing Madden.

I'm not insulting your intelligence, I am simply observing that in my opinion and experience, putting a great QB behind a porous line with no one to throw to is a recipe for disaster in the real world, and only in the simulation have I seen it work. That's not an insult to you or your intelligence, it's my opinion of the idea of putting a top rate QB into a second rate team.

As for the sacks this year, I think the fact that Painter can gain 60+ yards using his feet on a single drive gives an indication as to why there have been fewer sacks, but there have been plenty of hurries and plenty of contact. The thing is, we completely disagree on the idea of putting a great QB behind a poor line, you think it's not a problem, I think it's generally a recipe for disaster. The thing is, I get that there are exceptions, and that therefore sometimes it works, but you seem to be unwilling to accept that in the majority of cases, it ends poorly for the QB. That's fine, we can disagree. But please don't claim I am insulting you because you don't like an illustration I use. There was no insult intended in the comment at all.