Projected cap space for Broncos, Patriots, and Colts next year

[bavanlan]

I think you are easily the nicest poster on here with a ton of value in all your posts. Even though at times we disagree which is rare, I always appreciate your approach and opinions. I have been meaning to tell you this for some time.

 

[dw49]

No matter how you slice that...its a great deal for NE...the only issues are what will he be in 2017 that last year. Will he be the same Tom Brady....but as for the last couple years and the next couple years...he is CHEAP! Peyton restructured with us a couple times after signing that 2004 contract to move money. I linked the article earlier. Point is....these guys can't do it again...they are at the end...you gotta pay them what they make at this point..they can't push out the contracts anymore because they are at the end. Whether its Peyton or Tom...you have to look elsewhere if you want to restructure. And neithers contracts are a problem for their team...Peyton gives them well worth his 20 million and Tom's value is easily more than his 14 million.

 

 

Never said it wasn't a great or good deal. The only problem could be the last two years if he losses his skill set. happens to a lot of guys at 39-40. The issue was that she said "let's not forget that Brday's cap goes down next year as this starts the 3 year extension he signed. Now she says something completely different. Now it's a great deal... Well I didn't say it was a good deal , bad deal or an indifferent deal. I said his cap #  DOES NOT GO DOWN. I think I proved that as 3 of the next 4 years are higher and not lower. She just loves to deflect and wiggle.

 

 

She said......

 

"And don't forget Brady's cap hit drops too as next year begins his new extension." 

 

 

I mean why not just say pops... my bad. Instead she goes off on another tangent . Our thread had absolutely nothing to do with how much Brady deserves. Zero... nada.

[dw49]

We have been over this. I know it is not 9 mil a year. It averages out to be about $14 mil a year which is still a lot less then the elite guys or the recent extensions signed by Romo and Cutler. That is a bargain no matter how you slice it and saves the Pats cap space. And in terms of Brady's play. Not much worry there. His arm is still strong. He is not mobile so he won't be out in the open field taking hits. Really he and Manning could easily play at a top level into their 40's. The only issue for Manning is his neck which seems to be checking out fine every season.

 

 

See post 122

[Superman]

Don't get crazy. It is about the rings as a fan. But I am talking about historical perspective and that transcends fandom.

 

Who said it was cap magic? For 13 years now they have managed the cap and have retooled many, many times and have fielded insanely competitive teams including an 11 win season when Brady did not play.

 

The Revis deal was a perfect strike for a team that has a CB as a top need. The Brady deal last off-season was the first and only of its kind. And of course Hernandez comes off the books next season so that is another 7 mil right there.

 

To try to say they will end up like the Steelers or Cowboys is wishful thinking on your part.

 

What's important is up to the individual fans to decide. In your case, the narrative changes as it conveniences you.

 

And there's no wishful thinking about the Pats cap figure. I don't care what their cap looks like moving forward. But if they keep pushing money into the future, they will wind up carrying over huge cap numbers the way the Steelers and Cowboys are now. It's math, not some Colts fan crossing his fingers and hoping the Pats have cap trouble.

[Slick_Rick]

Could very well be....I wonder what kind of team O'Brien will put on the field.  I wish Houston had not hired him....I really liked him...LIKED...Can't now

How did you like him before? He was a Pat...Traitor!!! I jest, I jest

[BleedBlu8792]

A "mediocre" year by Revis' standards is still better than around 85% of CB's in the league. So if Revis has a decent to mediocre year and it could shrink or weaken his market value then the Pats can possibly sign him for a lesser amount than what he would have gotten originally.

 

Best corners in the NFL...

 

Darrelle Revis

Deangelo Hall

Patrick Peterson

Richard Sherman

Aquib Talib

The Saints had or have a very good CB too.  I think it's either Jabari Greer or Keenan Lewis.

 

Hall?!? Are you kidding me? Just because the Redskins keep re-upping the guy doesn't make him good.

 

[Sports Central1]

Deangelo Hall is a true cover corner who covers the best receiver the entire game and doesn't just stay on one side of the field.  Hall has to cover Dez Bryant the entire game.  Sherman doesn't do that.

 

Hall’s case arises from the fact that Sherman stays in one place on the left side of the defense, not following the opponents’ best receiver wherever he goes.  Hall also points out that Sherman has two of the best safeties in the game behind him (Kam Chancellor and Earl Thomas) and that the overall system makes so-so cornerbacks into great players, with Hall mentioning Byron Maxwell becoming regarded as a great corner despite being a “practice-squad player” and Brandon Browner’s career resurrecting after a stint in the CFL.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/15/deangelo-hall-continues-his-assault-on-richard-sherman/

[Sports Central1]

What's the obsession with Revis among Colts fans?  Pats got him and that's the end of it.  Patriots I bet are already thinking long term about the salary cap like every other team.  Most smart teams don't often build their roster based on one year, they look down the road.  The Pats organization has really never faced any salary cap issues in the past because they set a limit ceiling value on a player and don't budge from it like they did with Edelman.  They have a "take It or leave it" approach and don't over value players.  It the Pats think a player is only worth $3 mil a year they set it to $3 mil a year and that's it.  If the player thinks he can get a better deal on the free market then he's free to go shop around.  Now if the Pats really want to keep a player and don't want him to slip away in free agency but also don't want to give him a big long term deal they franchise tag him like they did to Welker and Talib for one year and get the most out of them like many other teams do.

 

After Brady is gone I hope the Pats choke on purpose every game to finish 0-16 to get the best QB in the draft.  I also wouldn't mind if the Patriots took the approach of the Ravens, Steelers, Giants, and Seahawks where they don't rely on a super star QB and focus more on being a defensive team.  Why break the bank on a QB when defense wins championships?

 

Since 2000 there has been 9 Super Bowl winning teams with below average to decent QB's on their teams...

 

Trent Dilfer

Tom Brady was winning SB's when he was average

Brad Johnson

Big Ben 2 SB victories and 3 SB appearances

Eli Manning 2 SB victories

Joe Flacco

Russell Wilson

 

Teams that made it to the super bowl since 2000 with below average to decent QB's...

 

Kerry Collins

Jake Delhomme

Matt Hasselbeck

Rex Grossman

Colin Kaepernick

[amfootball]

 

What's important is up to the individual fans to decide. In your case, the narrative changes as it conveniences you.

 

And there's no wishful thinking about the Pats cap figure. I don't care what their cap looks like moving forward. But if they keep pushing money into the future, they will wind up carrying over huge cap numbers the way the Steelers and Cowboys are now. It's math, not some Colts fan crossing his fingers and hoping the Pats have cap trouble.

Or maybe it is possible to see different aspects of a team's success especially in the context of a cap discussion. It's not like the rings are not part of the reason as to why they have been the best franchise in the cap era. I was just going a little deeper then a four year period as teams generally turn over 3-4 years. When you are working on 13 years of winning seasons and 8 conference champ games and 5 SB appearances and win on average 12-13 games a year those accomplishments are worth noting along with the rings when someone says they aren't anything special in terms of cap management.

 

You really think the Steelers and Cowboys are in the situation they are solely because of cap management? Have you looked at their rosters and the players they have drafted and acquired and the value they got from those drafts/deals? The cap is more then just dollars, it is value for those dollars. Teams have to consistently draft well and make smart FA acquisitions and know when to move on from aging players or players who no longer are playing up to their contracts. The Pats have been the best at this and it is reflective in their unprecedented success when teams are supposed to go 8-8 every year.

 

Pushing money out right now won't hurt them with how much the cap is projected to go up next year and the following years after that.

[amfootball]

See post 122

I lost you. Brady's cap hit will drop almost $2mil from 2014 to 2015. This thread was on cap mgmt and I was talking about the Pats cap situation next year and money they will have to spend. Hernandez will also come off the books opening up another $7 mil.

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

Wouldn't you expect Watt to be franchised?  I guess I'll call it now -- Watt will be franchised and back in Houston.

Thing is, JJ Watt is exactly the type of player you pony up two first rounders for. Especially if u are a contender who's at the beginning of their arch. Sounds like the Colts to me.

[BleedBlu8792]

Deangelo Hall is a true cover corner who covers the best receiver the entire game and doesn't just stay on one side of the field. Hall has to cover Dez Bryant the entire game. Sherman doesn't do that.

Hall’s case arises from the fact that Sherman stays in one place on the left side of the defense, not following the opponents’ best receiver wherever he goes. Hall also points out that Sherman has two of the best safeties in the game behind him (Kam Chancellor

and Earl Thomas

) and that the overall system makes so-so cornerbacks into great players, with Hall mentioning Byron Maxwell

becoming regarded as a great corner despite being a “practice-squad player” and Brandon Browner

’s career resurrecting after a stint in the CFL.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/15/deangelo-hall-continues-his-assault-on-richard-sherman/

I could care less what Deangelo Hall does in terms of coverage. Statistically he's ranked as one of the worst (bottom 10 of starting cornerbacks) cornerbacks for practically his entire time at Washington. Atlanta knew what they were doing when they let the door hit him on the * on his way out. Overrated...

The rest of your list I'm good with..

[chad72]

AM radio and Revis Island are the top rated shows in this thread, thanks for the show fellas!!!

 

Oh, did I start it? I didn't start the fire (Manning vs Brady), it was always burning....

 

[dw49]

The extension does not do what you said it does... lower his cap hit. It goes up in 2014 , down a bit in 15 up a bit in 16 and up a bit in 17. The last 3 years average 14 mill , with a low of 13 and a high of 15. To say that his cap number goes down is just misleading .

[amfootball]

The extension does not do what you said it does... lower his cap hit. It goes up in 2014 , down a bit in 15 up a bit in 16 and up a bit in 17. The last 3 years average 14 mill , with a low of 13 and a high of 15. To say that his cap number goes down is just misleading .

Fair enough. But I was talking about 2015 specifically as that is what this thread is about and his salary will be almost 2 mil less next year vs this year. Also you need to check the guarantees again. Only 33 mil of the 57 is guaranteed so if his play should decline the last couple of years, the Pats will not take a bath. 

[JerodMayo51]

Chris Harris and DT aren't making 10 a year.

 

 

ha, if Mike Wallace got $11 mill a year, DT is easily going to make AT LEAST $10 a year.  He is one of the top 3 to 5 wide receivers in the NFL.

 

 

Theres no way that could be right about Denver having $40 million in cap space next year.  I don't see how that could be even remotely possible when they have the most expensive QB in the league on their roster and have tons of guys locked up to deals that are some of the leagues highest at their positions.  I guess they will be able to keep a few of their young, core guys like Von Miller, DT and Chris Harris.  Julius Thomas will command at least $6-7 mill a year when you use the contracts of Gronk and Hernandez as a bench mark.  Jimmy Graham will either be a free agent or will have raised the bar even higher on TE contracts with a long term deal.

 

 

The Patriots cap space is hugely speculative, because that includes the $20 mill in cap space that they have on the books for Revis, which will never happen.  He will either be released or extended to a long term deal, there is no way hes going to take up that much cap space.  That also doesnt account for Wilfork, who will either be cut or extended and Logan Mankins is hitting that point where he'll need to be extended or cut as well.  Both of them have top 3 contracts for their positions and that will release a significant amount of cap space.

 

Does that cap figure also include Hernandez's contract finally coming off of the books?

 

 

A sign of a good GM isn't how much cap space you have available.  You want to use your cap space to field a competitive team, thats what its there for, but the good GMs leave their cap flexible to give them options and don't mortgage the future to win in the short term.

[JerodMayo51]

Denver will still have 40 million!!!!!!

[JerodMayo51]

Has Peyton ever taken a pay cut or restructured his contract in his career to help the team save money so they can afford to bring in other players?  Maybe Peyton should.

 

 

Hes restructured before but hes never taken a pay cut in his career.  Earlier in his career I wouldn't see a reason for him wanting to take a paycut because hes trying to maximize his earning potential, but you would think that towards the end of his career if he wanted to go off into the sunset with another ring that he would work with the team a bit more now that hes financially secure and has other business ventures outside of the NFL now (like 50 Papa Johns restaurants in Denver, CO for starters)

 

Brady legit took a paycut with this last extension he signed.  Hes done some restructuring in the past as well but those weren't paycuts either, it was just shifting money around to maneuver the cap.  He was highly underpaid though towards the beginning of his career and didnt get real top QB money until his 3rd contract.

[JerodMayo51]

It seems like every year now how we hear "next year the Pats will be in cap trouble" but it hasn't happened.  I'm not saying it will never happen but I think a lot of that comes from Pats haters with their wishful thinking and a little jealousy the Pats manage the cap so well.

 

Not having a lot of cap space is not indicative of being in cap trouble.  If your cap is being utilized to have lots of talented guys on your roster, then its not "cap trouble" because the cap is being used to maintain top level talent.  Its teams that mismanage their cap and are over the cap by significant amounts, forcing them to jettison tons of top end free agents and carry around tons of dead money that are in real cap trouble.

 

The Patriots could free up $30+ million in cap space just by cutting Revis, Wilfork and Mankins.  That is not "cap trouble", that is just utilizing your cap for high end talent while still having the flexibility of cutting them loose if necessary and making other moves.  They aren't ball and chain contracts that will haunt them, they're very flexible and maneuverable which allows them to adjust on the fly each year and make moves that best improve their roster.

[JerodMayo51]

I doubt that anyone in the history of the sport has ever "taken a pay cut to help their team". Don't even start with the Brady nonsense - we've had that argument on here 50 times already. Lets wait until he's actually playing for a reduced amount before elevating him to sainthood. There is a vast difference between cynical salary cap manipulation and charity.

 

Restructure? Repeatedly actually - although those events were no more acts of charity than Brady's. More relevant is the fact that he is making a good $7-10 million per year less than what would be considered FMV in this salary cap structure based on what other QBs are making.

 

Maybe Peyton should just be paid to do his job like everyone else in the league, without average joe's deciding for him that he's "made enough."

 

 

Brady for a fact took a paycut with this last contract extension he signed specifically to help the team.  Hes only going to be making like $11 mill a year or something around that in the final 2-3 years of the deal when he could be making $20+ easily.

 

Now before that, Brady has never taken a paycut just like Manning hasn't. They've both restructured their deals which created salary cap space for the team and had people being like "ZOMG he took a paycut, what a guy!!!" but in reality it was just guaranteeing more of their future money as a signing bonus so the team could spread the cap hit out more.

 

No player should take a paycut unless their play has dropped off and warrants a paycut.  Obviously when guys do it, its rare and should be commended because it definitely helps the team out, but its very rarely done.  They're worth what they're worth and if you or I were the best at what we do we would want to be paid like the best.

[dw49]

Fair enough. But I was talking about 2015 specifically as that is what this thread is about and his salary will be almost 2 mil less next year vs this year. Also you need to check the guarantees again. Only 33 mil of the 57 is guaranteed so if his play should decline the last couple of years, the Pats will not take a bath. 

 

 

I've read various sources that say if he's on the roster for the last games in 2014 it guarantees another 24 mill. But I really dont know for sure how his contract reads. The first link says just what I said in the other post. The second you read the years and it sure appears that it's guaranteed. The 3rd says the whole deal is guaranteed. Not saying your wrong as everything I'm finding says contrary to what you have. But could be that there is more recent stuff that what I'm finding. 

 

You really have my curiosity up now. Can you provide some links to your statement that only 33 of the 57 mill is guaranteed ? Or is it possible that that is the money that these sources say id guaranteed if he is on the roster the last game of this year ?

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2013/02/26/tom-brady-contract-breakdown/1949135/

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/tom-brady/

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/02/27/crunching-numbers-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady-contract-extension/4LIYld7tYQUB8CNXKmMaPM/story.html

[amfootball]

I've read various sources that say if he's on the roster for the last games in 2014 it guarantees another 24 mill. But I really dont know for sure how his contract reads. The first link says just what I said in the other post. The second you read the years and it sure appears that it's guaranteed. The 3rd says the whole deal is guaranteed. Not saying your wrong as everything I'm finding says contrary to what you have. But could be that there is more recent stuff that what I'm finding. 

 

You really have my curiosity up now. Can you provide some links to your statement that only 33 of the 57 mill is guaranteed ? Or is it possible that that is the money that these sources say id guaranteed if he is on the roster the last game of this year ?

 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2013/02/26/tom-brady-contract-breakdown/1949135/

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/tom-brady/

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/02/27/crunching-numbers-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady-contract-extension/4LIYld7tYQUB8CNXKmMaPM/story.html

http://www.allamericanspeakers.com/blog/tom-brady-extension-with-patriots-includes-30-million-signing-bonus/

 

"Yates breaks it down simply: 'The maximum value of the five-year deal is $57 million, with $33 million guaranteed no matter what happens. The remaining $24 million is “leftover likely to be seen should Brady continue to perform at his expected level.'"

[BrentMc11]

How did you like him before? He was a Pat...Traitor!!! I jest, I jest

Good point! 

 

HA HA!  I liked his efforts at Penn State.  

[JerodMayo51]

 

 I expect them to magically renegotiate before the first play of the first reduced year. If that happens, the entire exercise would be revealed as cap manipulation. And THAT'S unethical. 

 

 

 

Yikes, I was with you right up until this little gem.  Are you suggesting that the Patriots are unethical in their approach to the salary cap?  They follow the cap rules like anyone else and are always within the rules that are outlined by the league.  I don't see how anyone can call their management of the cap "unethical" and sounds like a cheap shot to me.

 

The rest of your post is great, but that comment really threw me off.

[BrentMc11]

I think you are easily the nicest poster on here with a ton of value in all your posts. Even though at times we disagree which is rare, I always appreciate your approach and opinions. I have been meaning to tell you this for some time.

And here I thought I was the McNicest  

[Superman]

Or maybe it is possible to see different aspects of a team's success especially in the context of a cap discussion. It's not like the rings are not part of the reason as to why they have been the best franchise in the cap era. I was just going a little deeper then a four year period as teams generally turn over 3-4 years. When you are working on 13 years of winning seasons and 8 conference champ games and 5 SB appearances and win on average 12-13 games a year those accomplishments are worth noting along with the rings when someone says they aren't anything special in terms of cap management.

 

You really think the Steelers and Cowboys are in the situation they are solely because of cap management? Have you looked at their rosters and the players they have drafted and acquired and the value they got from those drafts/deals? The cap is more then just dollars, it is value for those dollars. Teams have to consistently draft well and make smart FA acquisitions and know when to move on from aging players or players who no longer are playing up to their contracts. The Pats have been the best at this and it is reflective in their unprecedented success when teams are supposed to go 8-8 every year.

 

Pushing money out right now won't hurt them with how much the cap is projected to go up next year and the following years after that.

 

The reason the Patriots have been good for so long isn't cap management, it's Brady and Belichick. 

 

The Pats saving grace right now, and the reason they were able to do the Revis deal, is that the cap is going up. Benefits every other team as well, so there's nothing wrong with that, but they have some accelerating cap hits coming up that will make them continue to make tough cap decisions. You talk about value for dollars, but then you praise the Pats for getting rid of Welker and signing Amendola. They have some less than ideal contracts on their books just like everyone else does.

 

This was never meant as a dig against the Pats. Why you're taking it that way is beyond me. I just happen to know better than the whole "the Pats are the best at managing the cap" thing. 

[amfootball]

And here I thought I was the McNicest  

I feel nothing but this   for you.

[Superman]

Yikes, I was with you right up until this little gem.  Are you suggesting that the Patriots are unethical in their approach to the salary cap?  They follow the cap rules like anyone else and are always within the rules that are outlined by the league.  I don't see how anyone can call their management of the cap "unethical" and sounds like a cheap shot to me.

 

The rest of your post is great, but that comment really threw me off.

 

If they had some under the table agreement with Brady to renegotiate his contract before those last years, then it is unethical. Not that they did have that kind of arrangement, and not that they would be the only ones to have ever done something like that, but that would clearly be in violation of the spirit of the rules.

[BrentMc11]

I feel nothing but this   for you.

....should be a dog though

[amfootball]

The reason the Patriots have been good for so long isn't cap management, it's Brady and Belichick. 

 

The Pats saving grace right now, and the reason they were able to do the Revis deal, is that the cap is going up. Benefits every other team as well, so there's nothing wrong with that, but they have some accelerating cap hits coming up that will make them continue to make tough cap decisions. You talk about value for dollars, but then you praise the Pats for getting rid of Welker and signing Amendola. They have some less than ideal contracts on their books just like everyone else does.

 

This was never meant as a dig against the Pats. Why you're taking it that way is beyond me. I just happen to know better than the whole "the Pats are the best at managing the cap" thing. 

So you are going to chalk up 13 years of unprecedented success to one player and HC? For sure Brady and Belichick are big reasons but that is also far too simple of an explanation as well. I don't think you are giving Bill the GM and his team enough credit either. They did win 11 games without Brady in 2008. And as you always like to remind me, when they were winning their rings, Brady was not the league MVP caliber Brady of 2007 and beyond. For Brady and Bill to be as successful as they are, they have to have the horses too as Bill the coach has to coach Bill the GMs personnel choices. They have had to reconstruct the offense and defense multiple times in 13 years not to mention all of the coaching changes from coordinators to assistants that have left because of the success.

 

You can cherry pick the Amendola deal if you like but he is on a 5 year deal and was injured last year so the jury is out on how things will go in the subsequent years. And I never said they were perfect or magic cap people like you insinuated. I just said they have been the best at managing the cap in this era. I really don't think that can be disputed but I know you will try.

[amfootball]

....should be a dog though

We need to tell Nadine to add a dog hugging the smiling face.

[MAC]

Yikes, I was with you right up until this little gem.  Are you suggesting that the Patriots are unethical in their approach to the salary cap?  They follow the cap rules like anyone else and are always within the rules that are outlined by the league.  I don't see how anyone can call their management of the cap "unethical" and sounds like a cheap shot to me.

 

The rest of your post is great, but that comment really threw me off.

Well it wouldn't exactly be a normal transaction, but I have little interest in taking cheap shots at the Pats. A fan of the team would call it clever cap manipulation. Someone else would call it something else. Semantics. As long as the league doesn't care than neither do I. I'm not taking a shot at them, just at those who laud Brady for this.

 

What I object to is people applauding Brady as if he has made a noble sacrifice, when to this point he has not. He was in the middle of a long term contract that made him the highest paid QB in the sport at the time he signed it. With two years left in the deal they did that extension. Last year and this upcoming year he got/will get exactly as much money as he was going to anyway, plus a bunch extra as a reward for agreeing to the extension. There hasn't been one iota of sacrifice - he made MORE money. Many expect that contract to be adjusted once more before the day in September of 2015 when he actually steps onto the field at a bargain rate. If he holds to it I'll applaud him at the time, but it's a bit premature to do so now.

 

I certainly couldn't criticize them for doing something that they haven't actually done yet anyway. That's not exactly fair. I'm just talking about IF they end up increasing his salary again. Big if.

 

One could surmise that they made the deal in anticipation of his value dropping as he ages, and Brady (knowing BB's penchant for dropping overpaid players without hesitation) didn't want to put himself in a position where the team was forced to release him. That would be smart and fair on both sides. That would leave room for his salary to be increased again if it turned out that his play hadn't deteriorated after all. Or it could imply a level of trust on Brady's part all along that it was going to happen, which would constitute a handshake agreement as part of a cynical effort to circumvent the cap. Unfair to some, but not illegal. It would be the player taking the risk, and if he has that level of trust, good for him. Reality is in the eye of the beholder.

 

The larger issue is whether any of us should be applauding any player for these decisions. We aren't talking about Mother Theresa. If a player does so it isn't because he's more of a "winner" than the next guy, or because he wants to give something back to the fans, it's because he's at a stage in his life where he can afford to put winning (ego) above money (greed). Pick the human sin/virtue. What we're applauding is the player doing something that coincidentally benefits US, but it doesn't pay to look too closely at the motivation behind it. It's silly to either applaud or criticize any of these guys for these decisions. They are worried about themselves, and we are worried about ourselves, and  we're all the same underneath.

[Dustin]

So you are going to chalk up 13 years of unprecedented success to one player and HC?

Why not? You have no problem doing it.

[Superman]

So you are going to chalk up 13 years of unprecedented success to one player and HC?

 

Yes. They are the two biggest factors, and they have made up for many personnel mistakes along the way.

 

For sure Brady and Belichick are big reasons but that is also far too simple of an explanation as well. I don't think you are giving Bill the GM and his team enough credit either. They did win 11 games without Brady in 2008. And as you always like to remind me, when they were winning their rings, Brady was not the league MVP caliber Brady of 2007 and beyond. For Brady and Bill to be as successful as they are, they have to have the horses too as Bill the coach has to coach Bill the GMs personnel choices. They have had to reconstruct the offense and defense multiple times in 13 years not to mention all of the coaching changes from coordinators to assistants that have left because of the success.

 

I'm talking specifically about cap management. 

 

You can cherry pick the Amendola deal if you like but he is on a 5 year deal and was injured last year so the jury is out on how things will go in the subsequent years. 

 

 

 

It's not cherry-picked; it's an example of the Pats having a less than ideal contract value on their books. There are other examples as well, throughout the years. 

 

And I never said they were perfect or magic cap people like you insinuated. I just said they have been the best at managing the cap in this era. I really don't think that can be disputed but I know you will try.

 

 

I never said you said anything. You injected yourself into this. My initial comment was in response to another poster, and then you tried to prop the Revis deal up as an example of great cap management -- which is really is not. You engaged me. I haven't attributed anything to you in this regard.

 

If it makes you happy, though, the Pats have made a lot of great cap decisions throughout the Belichick era. They certainly aren't bad at managing the cap, and I never insinuated that they were. But you either pay now, or you pay later. If they keep pushing cap hits into the future, they will eventually have problems. That's what the Steelers are dealing with now, and they're a team that has historically been smart with their cap. But you overpay here, you do an ill-advised restructure there, and two or three years later, you're cutting good players just to get under the cap.

 

Sorry if my refusal to worship the Patriots' shrine isn't in keeping with the Dynasty Week spirit.

[amfootball]

 

 

The larger issue is whether any of us should be applauding any player for these decisions. We aren't talking about Mother Theresa. If a player does so it isn't because he's more of a "winner" than the next guy, or because he wants to give something back to the fans, it's because he's at a stage in his life where he can afford to put winning (ego) above money (greed).

Rarely in life have I seen any person in position to make money, take less. You can applaud whatever you want in your life but I do find such acts commendable even if on the other end is the motivation to win at one's chosen profession. And Incidentally Lebron James, who many hate on the level of Brady did the same thing to sign with Miami a few years ago. Left money on the table to win. I applaud him just the same. Like I said it is rare, especially in today's professional sports world to see athletes do that.

[amfootball]

 

Yes. They are the two biggest factors, and they have made up for many personnel mistakes along the way.

 

 

I'm talking specifically about cap management. 

 

 

It's not cherry-picked; it's an example of the Pats having a less than ideal contract value on their books. There are other examples as well, throughout the years. 

 

 

I never said you said anything. You injected yourself into this. My initial comment was in response to another poster, and then you tried to prop the Revis deal up as an example of great cap management -- which is really is not. You engaged me. I haven't attributed anything to you in this regard.

 

If it makes you happy, though, the Pats have made a lot of great cap decisions throughout the Belichick era. They certainly aren't bad at managing the cap, and I never insinuated that they were. But you either pay now, or you pay later. If they keep pushing cap hits into the future, they will eventually have problems. That's what the Steelers are dealing with now, and they're a team that has historically been smart with their cap. But you overpay here, you do an ill-advised restructure there, and two or three years later, you're cutting good players just to get under the cap.

 

Sorry if my refusal to worship the Patriots' shrine isn't in keeping with the Dynasty Week spirit.

You keep mentioning the Steelers and I have no idea why. The Patriots do make mistakes but never that many to cost their roster to the point of where the Steelers are at now. And the Patriots always leave themselves outs like with the Revis deal where they can opt out of the second year and the Brady deal that saved them $6 mil in cap space last year and this year. I am surprised at your simplistic view on this as you are usually are more astute with your analysis but you are just reaching on this one.  

[Superman]

You keep mentioning the Steelers and I have no idea why. The Patriots do make mistakes but never that many to cost their roster to the point of where the Steelers are at now. And the Patriots always leave themselves outs like with the Revis deal where they can opt out of the second year and the Brady deal that saved them $6 mil in cap space last year and this year. I am surprised at your simplistic view on this as you are usually are more astute with your analysis but you are just reaching on this one.  

 

Do you remember my original post? 

 

If they keep going the way they are right now, they'll wind up with a cap situation similar to the Steelers and Cowboys.

 

 

Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. They might very well be fine, but it will be because they made some adjustments, they stopped pushing money into future years, they got rid of some bad contracts (which they're in the process of doing), etc. 

[JerodMayo51]

if he has a mediocre year, then the patriots made a mistake giving him 12 million

 

If Talib has a mediocre year then the Broncos made an even bigger mistake that will affect them long term. 

 

If Revis is stays healthy, there is no reason to think that his play, which has been consistently great since entering the league as the top premiere corner, will suddenly just fall into mediocrity.  

 

That is wishful thinking.  The only way this bites the Patriots is if Revis ends up on IR for an injury, which could happen to any player and is much more likely to happen to Talib given his history.

[jvan1973]

If Talib has a mediocre year then the Broncos made an even bigger mistake that will affect them long term.

If Revis is stays healthy, there is no reason to think that his play, which has been consistently great since entering the league as the top premiere corner, will suddenly just fall into mediocrity.

That is wishful thinking. The only way this bites the Patriots is if Revis ends up on IR for an injury, which could happen to any player and is much more likely to happen to Talib given his history.

It was your fellow pats fan that suggested that he wanted revis to have a "down" year so he could be re-signed cheaper

[amfootball]

They might very well be fine, but it will be because they made some adjustments, they stopped pushing money into future years, they got rid of some bad contracts (which they're in the process of doing), etc. 

That is what they have been doing for 13 years - they adjust, they move on from bad deals and make new, better ones and build through the draft. If they ever look like the Steelers do now with Bill as the GM, I will start a thread that says "Bill has officially lost it."

 

By the way, completely off-topic but sorry about the Irsay news today. I have not really been over to the Colts side as I know it must be a tough day. Hate to see something like that happen. I know I like to rib you guys about Irsay from time to time but if it is true that he has relapsed then that is terrible news and I hope he gets the help he needs.