Projected cap space for Broncos, Patriots, and Colts next year

[Sports Central1]

Report: Revis 'wants to play' for Patriots...

http://www.patriots.com/news/blog/article-1/Report-Revis-wants-to-play-for-Patriots/eb92b8bd-0748-4c3a-8c2e-7d0b855bcfcf

 

After NY Jets passed on Darrelle Revis, he bolts for Patriots in 'Benedict Arnold' move

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/myers-revis-sought-return-jets-rex-wanted-back-article-1.1720586#ixzz2wA77n79K

[jvan1973]

Do you mean mediocre like the type of year you got out of Richardson?

yeah, for about 11 million less

[amfootball]

That's quite a recalibration for someone who is known for saying "it's all about the rings." Now winning a bunch of games is a greater accomplishment than three titles in four years... That's rich.

 

And even if you believe that Revis is playing for a discount, which I don't -- he's still the highest paid corner in the league, and one of the highest paid defensive players; the reason the Bucs cut him is because his $16m/year was untenable, and no one would accept those terms in a trade -- that deal speaks to salesmanship and negotiation, not cap management. In a year, this will either be a one year rental with a dead cap charge of $5m, which there's nothing wrong with, or a longer team deal with increasing cap hits in the future. Again, nothing wrong with that, no matter how it works out, but it's not evidence of great cap management.

 

In fact, it's more of an evidence of pushing cap pain into the future, which gets dangerous. Even if Brady does play for those lower salaries in future years, the Pats still don't have a lot of cap flexibility, because they've pushed a bunch of money in to the future. 

 

There's nothing wrong with the way the Pats are managing their cap, but it's not outstanding cap management. Signing a guy for two years, $32m, with a $10m signing bonus, and only having a $7m cap hit in the first year, to some people that looks like cap magic. It's not. That bonus money gets accounted for, now or later. If the Pats win the Super Bowl this year, it's worth it, no matter what. But it's not cap magic. It's just paying for today's investment tomorrow.

Don't get crazy. It is about the rings as a fan. But I am talking about historical perspective and that transcends fandom.

 

Who said it was cap magic? For 13 years now they have managed the cap and have retooled many, many times and have fielded insanely competitive teams including an 11 win season when Brady did not play.

 

The Revis deal was a perfect strike for a team that has a CB as a top need. The Brady deal last off-season was the first and only of its kind. And of course Hernandez comes off the books next season so that is another 7 mil right there.

 

To try to say they will end up like the Steelers or Cowboys is wishful thinking on your part.

[amfootball]

yeah, for about 11 million less

You also gave up the #1 pick. Don't forget that. Pats gave up nothing to get Revis who unlike Richardson has lived up to being the best player at his position.

[jvan1973]

You also gave up the #1 pick. Don't forget that. Pats gave up nothing to get Revis who unlike Richardson has lived up to being the best player at his position.

richardson really has nothing to do with this. Nice attempt at defection

[amfootball]

richardson really has nothing to do with this. Nice attempt at defection

Did I hurt your feelings? ;)

[Sports Central1]

if he has a mediocre year, then the patriots made a mistake giving him 12 million

 

A "mediocre" year by Revis' standards is still better than around 85% of CB's in the league. So if Revis has a decent to mediocre year and it could shrink or weaken his market value then the Pats can possibly sign him for a lesser amount than what he would have gotten originally.

 

Best corners in the NFL...

 

Darrelle Revis

Deangelo Hall

Patrick Peterson

Richard Sherman

Aquib Talib

The Saints had or have a very good CB too.  I think it's either Jabari Greer or Keenan Lewis.

[jvan1973]

Did I hurt your feelings? ;)

Not at all.. Richardson will still be under contract the next two seasons for next to nothing

[jvan1973]

A "mediocre" year by Revis' standards is still better than around 85% of CB's in the league. So if Revis has a decent to mediocre year and it could shrink or weaken his market value then the Pats can possibly sign him for a lesser amount than what he would have gotten originally.

Best corners in the NFL...

Darrelle Revis

Deangelo Hall

Patrick Peterson

Richard Sherman

Aquib Talib

The Saints had or have a very good CB too. I think it's either Jabari Greer or Keenan Lewis.

Hall has no business on that list

[amfootball]

Not at all.. Richardson will still be under contract the next two seasons for next to nothing

That's good because he has given you and the Browns next to nothing on the field ... are you really going to go into the season with him as your starting RB?

[jvan1973]

That's good because he has given you and the Browns next to nothing on the field ... are you really going to go into the season with him as your starting RB?

He Ballard and Bradshaw

[amfootball]

He Ballard and Bradshaw

Ballard is the guy, right? Or will Pagano go with Richardson? If he demotes him again, it will kill his confidence I would think. I like Bradshaw although isn't he coming off of a neck injury?

[Dustin]

 Nice attempt at defection

 

It's always the first sign that somebody has lost an argument. 

 

"If Revis has a bad year than the Pats overpaids"

 

"Yeah, well, trent richardson sucks!"

[Dustin]

A "mediocre" year by Revis' standards is still better than around 85% of CB's in the league. So if Revis has a decent to mediocre year and it could shrink or weaken his market value then the Pats can possibly sign him for a lesser amount than what he would have gotten originally.

 

Best corners in the NFL...

 

Darrelle Revis

Deangelo Hall

Patrick Peterson

Richard Sherman

Aquib Talib

The Saints had or have a very good CB too.  I think it's either Jabari Greer or Keenan Lewis.

 

Deangelo Hall?

[Dustin]

Do you mean mediocre like the type of year you got out of Richardson?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

 

Ignoratio elenchi, also known as irrelevant conclusion,^[1] is the informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may or may not be logically valid, but fails nonetheless to address the issue in question/statement.

 

 

[jvan1973]

Ballard is the guy, right? Or will Pagano go with Richardson? If he demotes him again, it will kill his confidence I would think. I like Bradshaw although isn't he coming off of a neck injury?

I'm not sure there will be "the guy" In guessing if they all stay healthy then they will all get about the same amount of plays

[amfootball]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

 

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwdba9C2G14‎

Huh? Do you feel the Colts got a good year out of Richardson?

[amfootball]

I'm not sure there will be "the guy" In guessing if they all stay healthy then they will all get about the same amount of plays

Yeah, better to have depth at the position anyways but I would think Pagano will need to name a starter to begin the season anyways.

[Dustin]

Huh? Do you feel the Colts got a good year out of Richardson?

 

I feel that has no relevance to a thread about Darrelle Revis and you brought it up to de-rail the thread. 

[amfootball]

I feel that has no relevance to a thread about Darrelle Revis and you brought it up to de-rail the thread. 

Gotcha. But this thread was not on Revis either. Superman talked about the Pats not being great cap managers and I mentioned Revis as a deal that exemplified them being good at cap mgmt. It kind of took off from there but it was relevant in its original context.

[dgambill]

Peyton has twice restructured his contract with the Colts when we were re-signing guys. http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Ten-players-who-could-restructure-their-contracts.html  Now could he do that with the Broncos? Probably.....but not in a way that would help Denver. You can't continue to add years on a contract when the guy is at this age and not mortgage your future. Brady won't be able to restructure his deal either...unless he is going to play until he is like 45. At this point these guys are getting to old to do that. The cap space should be fine for both team...and both teams will be factors for the SB until either their signal callers call it quits.

[Dustin]

Gotcha. But this thread was not on Revis either.

 

It was about the impact of these 3 teams signings and their potential salary cap implications. 

 

We were talking about contracts and you de-railed it to Trent Richardson. 

[amfootball]

It was about the impact of these 3 teams signings and their potential salary cap implications. 

 

We were talking about contracts and you de-railed it to Trent Richardson. 

Has it really been derailed though? The Revis deal and Richardson deal are relevant to the teams cap mgmt.

[Dustin]

Has it really been derailed though?

 

What are we talking about at the moment?

 

 

The Revis deal and Richardson deal are relevant to the teams cap mgmt.

 

Ha!  Nice try. Richardson is getting paid next to nothing. 

[dgambill]

It was about the impact of these 3 teams signings and their potential salary cap implications. 

 

We were talking about contracts and you de-railed it to Trent Richardson. 

Signings are fine for both teams. Denver will have more guys to re-sign next year but they also will have a crap load of space..plus the cap will go up again...I see no issues getting all their guys under contract....but they won't be able to make moves like this year...but maybe they won't have to....they are in a great situation and if they continue to draft well...they will be good long term. We all know in the long run...it always comes down to signal callers...and NE and DEN will only be as good as Osweiler and Mallet down the road. But that's a ways off. I suspect Peyton has 2 more years and Brady 3 to 4.

[amfootball]

What are we talking about at the moment?

 

 

 

Ha!  Nice try. Richardson is getting paid next to nothing. 

Hard to not talk players and deals when discussing team's cap situations. Brady and Manning were being discussed earlier as well by two other posters. That was relevant too.

[Dustin]

Hard to not talk players and deals when discussing team's cap situations. Brady and Manning were being discussed earlier as well but two other posters. That was relevant too.

 

You're reaching. You brought it up because you were frustrated that Jvan would dare to suggest that Revis could have a "mediocre" year. 

 

Let's just drop it. You've de-railed this thread far enough. No reason for it to have to be locked. 

[amfootball]

You're reaching. You brought it up because you were frustrated that Jvan would dare to suggest that Revis could have a "mediocre" year. 

 

Let's just drop. You've de-railed this thread far enough. No reason for it to have to be locked. 

Sure thing. Back to topic.

 

The cap is going to go up even higher next year given the TV contracts making this whole thread moot IMO. Teams like the Pats, Broncos and Colts have smart mgmt. It is teams like Tampa for example that give up a #1 for Revis and then release and get nothing back. It is those teams that need to worry not solid orgs that have a history of success.

[oldunclemark]

Signings are fine for both teams. Denver will have more guys to re-sign next year but they also will have a crap load of space..plus the cap will go up again...I see no issues getting all their guys under contract....but they won't be able to make moves like this year...but maybe they won't have to....they are in a great situation and if they continue to draft well...they will be good long term. We all know in the long run...it always comes down to signal callers...and NE and DEN will only be as good as Osweiler and Mallet down the road. But that's a ways off. I suspect Peyton has 2 more years and Brady 3 to 4.

In a worst case scenario....Denver doesn't resign Demariyus or Julius Thomas...counting on Manning to make a rookie or bargain free agent work..

 

..and I don't know if NE has anything like a pressing cap problem if they simply decide not to resign Revis in 2015

[Dustin]

New #Patriots CB Darrelle Revis will take his physical tomorrow and sign his 2-year, $32M deal, source says. Then it will be official

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

March 16, 2014

[dgambill]

In a worst case scenario....Denver doesn't resign Demariyus or Julius Thomas...counting on Manning to make a rookie or bargain free agent work..

 

..and I don't know if NE has anything like a pressing cap problem if they simply decide not to resign Revis in 2015

Oh I see no way they don't do that...DT will be franchised worst case scenerio....JT won't get a Jimmy Graham deal...it will be a good contract but nothing like that...he doesn't warrant that. Denver will be fine...tons of cap space next year with a cap that will go up probably another 10 million. They will make decisions but nothing like getting rid of Miller, JT, and DT. Outside of those 3...sure they might look at other options...and unlike us...they have all their picks. They don't over-react when a guy goes down and make a bad trade. They called on other guys to step up. Miller was out early and late...Welker went down...Clady was out for the season and had other OL injuries...they didn't blink...they just got help from other guys. Our backs went down...did we sign a FA? No we trade our 1st rd pick...not saying I don't like Grigson's moves...I've been ok with most..and especially considering how good he has drafted its hard to justify that trade...especially for a team that doesn't have a small window for a SB. 

 

I agree Revis deal would get really sticky if they keep him next year...but they have plenty of options to get innovative over the next couple years to go all in too. In the long run we have an excellent team going forward...and can still compete now...but certainly Denver and NE knows the best chance to win is now. Brady and Manning have a couple years left....after that...who knows what Osweiler and Mallett can do.

[amfootball]

New #Patriots CB Darrelle Revis will take his physical tomorrow and sign his 2-year, $32M deal, source says. Then it will be official

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

March 16, 2014

Back to derailing I see.

[dw49]

Did he or did he not collect 16 mil last year? That was his contract and that is what he got. Bottom feeder teams were prepared to pay him in that neighborhood but he chose the Pats on the one year deal for reasons that are only his.

 

 

The 16 mill deal from the Bucs was a joke and no team was going to be stupid enough to do that again. 12 mill is a full 2 mill per more than the other top CB's are getting. There was just no market for mofe than what NE paid him and what you keep leaking over the board has no basis. Why would a "bottom feeder " want to give a 29 year old CB 14-16 mill per year. Makes no sense. 

[amfootball]

The 16 mill deal from the Bucs was a joke and no team was going to be stupid enough to do that again. 12 mill is a full 2 mill per more than the other top CB's are getting. There was just no market for mofe than what NE paid him and what you keep leaking over the board has no basis. Why would a "bottom feeder " want to give a 29 year old CB 14-16 mill per year. Makes no sense. 

Still the Bucs paid him the full 16 mil. The bottom feeders would have given him more years then the Pats and more guaranteed money. He was going to be the highest paid CB regardless of where he went. The key for the Pats was the one year deal with the option for the second year which I fully expect them to neg. down or else let him hit the market. I am glad that the Pats did not pay him the $16 mil for the one year and got him for the 12 as he is worth that price.

[dw49]

Those numbers are nice and all but not based on the cap projection which is supposed to near 160 potentially. Not to mention NE's ability to cut players, restructure deals, etc. Revis' deal is not on the books for 2015 unless the Pats pick up his option which no one expects them to do. NE also has one of the youngest teams in the NFL and knows how to manage the cap better than any other team. And don't forget Brady's cap hit drops too as next year begins his new extension.

 

 

Those numbers are nice and all but not based on the cap projection which is supposed to near 160 potentially. Not to mention NE's ability to cut players, restructure deals, etc. Revis' deal is not on the books for 2015 unless the Pats pick up his option which no one expects them to do. NE also has one of the youngest teams in the NFL and knows how to manage the cap better than any other team. And don't forget Brady's cap hit drops too as next year begins his new extension.

  God you really know absolutely zero how the cap works. NE just pushed everything forward when Brady did that extension. They are still responsible for unpaid bonus money from the previous contract. Fact is if Brady stinks at 39-40 years old , the Pats will probably be in cap hell. By being on the roster the final game of this season he locks up another 24 mill in guaranteed money.

 

So you'll stop making a monkey out of yourself here are Brady's cap numbers for 2013 and going forward.

 

2013  $13,800,000

 

2014  $14,800,000

 

2015  $13,000,000

 

2016  $14,000,000

 

2015  $15,000,000

 

So as you can see , the 27 mill 3 year extension he signed doesn't make his pay 9 mill per year. So the "goes down " you talk about is just not true. 

[dw49]

Still the Bucs paid him the full 16 mil. The bottom feeders would have given him more years then the Pats and more guaranteed money. He was going to be the highest paid CB regardless of where he went. The key for the Pats was the one year deal with the option for the second year which I fully expect them to neg. down or else let him hit the market. I am glad that the Pats did not pay him the $16 mil for the one year and got him for the 12 as he is worth that price.

 

 

I agree that he was worth that to the Pats and 12 mill per does not appear to be an over pay. Once again .. when you say the bottom feeders would have given him more guaranteed money , that is a bull crap statement. Yes he would have got more guaranteed but only if he did a longer deal. The 12 mill in 2014 is all guaranteed. 

[amfootball]

I agree that he was worth that to the Pats and 12 mill per does not appear to be an over pay. Once again .. when you say the bottom feeders would have given him more guaranteed money , that is a bull crap statement. Yes he would have got more guaranteed but only if he did a longer deal. The 12 mill in 2014 is all guaranteed. 

Most players want the guaranteed money and the longer deal but Revis wanted to go to a contender. I don't blame him and this could work out huge for him if he plays well and the Pats get to or win the SB. I have no issue with the 12 guaranteed for one year. Not for a player of his talent level at a critical defensive position.

[amfootball]

  God you really know absolutely zero how the cap works. NE just pushed everything forward when Brady did that extension. They are still responsible for unpaid bonus money from the previous contract. Fact is if Brady stinks at 39-40 years old , the Pats will probably be in cap hell. By being on the roster the final game of this season he locks up another 24 mill in guaranteed money.

 

So you'll stop making a monkey out of yourself here are Brady's cap numbers for 2013 and going forward.

 

2013  $13,800,000

 

2014  $14,800,000

 

2015  $13,000,000

 

2016  $14,000,000

 

2015  $15,000,000

 

So as you can see , the 27 mill 3 year extension he signed doesn't make his pay 9 mill per year. So the "goes down " you talk about is just not true. 

We have been over this. I know it is not 9 mil a year. It averages out to be about $14 mil a year which is still a lot less then the elite guys or the recent extensions signed by Romo and Cutler. That is a bargain no matter how you slice it and saves the Pats cap space. And in terms of Brady's play. Not much worry there. His arm is still strong. He is not mobile so he won't be out in the open field taking hits. Really he and Manning could easily play at a top level into their 40's. The only issue for Manning is his neck which seems to be checking out fine every season.

[dgambill]

  God you really know absolutely zero how the cap works. NE just pushed everything forward when Brady did that extension. They are still responsible for unpaid bonus money from the previous contract. Fact is if Brady stinks at 39-40 years old , the Pats will probably be in cap hell. By being on the roster the final game of this season he locks up another 24 mill in guaranteed money.

 

So you'll stop making a monkey out of yourself here are Brady's cap numbers for 2013 and going forward.

 

2013  $13,800,000

 

2014  $14,800,000

 

2015  $13,000,000

 

2016  $14,000,000

 

2015  $15,000,000

 

So as you can see , the 27 mill 3 year extension he signed doesn't make his pay 9 mill per year. So the "goes down " you talk about is just not true. 

No matter how you slice that...its a great deal for NE...the only issues are what will he be in 2017 that last year. Will he be the same Tom Brady....but as for the last couple years and the next couple years...he is CHEAP! Peyton restructured with us a couple times after signing that 2004 contract to move money. I linked the article earlier. Point is....these guys can't do it again...they are at the end...you gotta pay them what they make at this point..they can't push out the contracts anymore because they are at the end. Whether its Peyton or Tom...you have to look elsewhere if you want to restructure. And neithers contracts are a problem for their team...Peyton gives them well worth his 20 million and Tom's value is easily more than his 14 million.

[amfootball]

No matter how you slice that...its a great deal for NE...the only issues are what will he be in 2017 that last year. Will he be the same Tom Brady....but as for the last couple years and the next couple years...he is CHEAP! Peyton restructured with us a couple times after signing that 2004 contract to move money. I linked the article earlier. Point is....these guys can't do it again...they are at the end...you gotta pay them what they make at this point..they can't push out the contracts anymore because they are at the end. Whether its Peyton or Tom...you have to look elsewhere if you want to restructure. And neithers contracts are a problem for their team...Peyton gives them well worth his 20 million and Tom's value is easily more than his 14 million.

I think you are easily the nicest poster on here with a ton of value in all your posts. Even though at times we disagree which is rare, I always appreciate your approach and opinions. I have been meaning to tell you this for some time.