ILB prospects

[Superman]

"Groom a replacement for Freeman" Why would we be doing this Exactly?

 

Because Freeman is a good player, but has his flaws. Someone like Smallwood has more upside, I think, particularly at Freeman's position. Freeman's contract expires after this year. If we had someone like Smallwood really showing out for our defense, I might hesitate to pay Freeman when he hits free agency. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Because Freeman is a good player, but has his flaws. Someone like Smallwood has more upside, I think, particularly at Freeman's position. Freeman's contract expires after this year. If we had someone like Smallwood really showing out for our defense, I might hesitate to pay Freeman when he hits free agency.

Year after year of seeing trash defense I'd rather see SmallWood lined up next to Freman, as opposed to replacing him. (Btw That's my ideal draft target, he looks like a real player on the field)

[Gavin]

I just dont see what the big deal is about Smallwood,, He 6'3, has some speed but doesn't even hit like many 5'11" ILB's in this draft and has trouble disengaging from his blocks often

[GoColtsGo5150]

I just dont see what the big deal is about Smallwood,, He 6'3, has some speed but doesn't even hit like many 5'11" ILB's in this draft and has trouble disengaging from his blocks often

I agree about Smallwood- I don't see the big deal either. I would rather have Skov who is a good tackler, can blitz and can stop the run (QB or HB). People say He's a liability in coverage but that's kind of hard to say if they don't put him in coverage often.

Another guy to look at as a OLB/ILB hybrid, is Marcus Smith from Louisville- he's got good speed to get to the QB and he can cause turnovers.

[Gavin]

I agree about Smallwood- I don't see the big deal either. I would rather have Skov who is a good tackler, can blitz and can stop the run (QB or HB). People say He's a liability in coverage but that's kind of hard to say if they don't put him in coverage often.

Another guy to look at as a OLB/ILB hybrid, is Marcus Smith from Louisville- he's got good speed to get to the QB and he can cause turnovers.

I like Smith, I dont think Smallwood would be a bad pick by any means, I think he would be a good ILB pick up for us if we drafted him who could put up many 100 plus tackle seasons for years to come but I just dont see the aggression out of him for his size, Skov I think needs to continue to add strength, aggressive hitter which I like but gets stood up on impact at times, Best thing I like about him is he has great instincts  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frs1xW0Ytlo

 

:13 Got stood up on impact, Did get him down but it took quite for him to do that

:25 Same thing, Did get him down but had to drag him down

:57 shows a quick first step and timing on the blitz but will get overaggressive and pursuit and when he does its not easy for him to adjust in space

1:24 shows excellent timing on blitz again and this time does not overpursuit, QB just happened to get rid of the ball in time (nonsense roughing the passer call in my opinion to) 

 

Just my opinions of course

[esmort]

I just dont see what the big deal is about Smallwood,, He 6'3, has some speed but doesn't even hit like many 5'11" ILB's in this draft and has trouble disengaging from his blocks often

 

 

I agree about Smallwood- I don't see the big deal either. I would rather have Skov who is a good tackler, can blitz and can stop the run (QB or HB). People say He's a liability in coverage but that's kind of hard to say if they don't put him in coverage often.

Another guy to look at as a OLB/ILB hybrid, is Marcus Smith from Louisville- he's got good speed to get to the QB and he can cause turnovers.

 

I think if we are going to invest our early pick in an ILB we need someone who is good in coverage. It doesn't necessarily have to be Smallwood (although he looks like a good coverage LB), but there are several guys in both FA and the Draft that have that have run stuffing ability.  An ILB that is good in coverage and can drop in coverage, help take away the seam and some of those crossing routes, etc ... even if he is just decent/above average against the run is much harder to find and would be a much bigger asset IMO.

[coltsfanatic24]

If Scov just had average speed he's a 1st round pick but he doesn't, he runs a 4.8 40. James Laurinaitis runs a 4.8 and he's productive but he plays in a 4-3, Rams play a lot of zone. Skov has everything you want in a ILB except speed but in a 3-4 both of the ILB's have to be fast and athletic for it to work. It wouldn't be a good idea drafting Skov when we play man defense 90% of the time.

 

I agree about Smallwood- I don't see the big deal either. I would rather have Skov who is a good tackler, can blitz and can stop the run (QB or HB). People say He's a liability in coverage but that's kind of hard to say if they don't put him in coverage often.

Another guy to look at as a OLB/ILB hybrid, is Marcus Smith from Louisville- he's got good speed to get to the QB and he can cause turnovers.

[Superman]

I think if we are going to invest our early pick in an ILB we need someone who is good in coverage. It doesn't necessarily have to be Smallwood (although he looks like a good coverage LB), but there are several guys in both FA and the Draft that have that have run stuffing ability.  An ILB that is good in coverage and can drop in coverage, help take away the seam and some of those crossing routes, etc ... even if he is just decent/above average against the run is much harder to find and would be a much bigger asset IMO.

 

Exactly. 

[husker61]

It wouldn't be a good idea drafting Skov when we play man defense 90% of the time.

 

exactly, the colts have to have a every down lb that can stay with a te or rb man to man.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I just dont see what the big deal is about Smallwood,, He 6'3, has some speed but doesn't even hit like many 5'11" ILB's in this draft and has trouble disengaging from his blocks often

Agree we have him already his name is Sheppard, and Sheppard is bigger.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I want the Wisconsin LB he is just a good football player who hits like a hammer!

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Agree we have him already his name is Sheppard, and Sheppard is bigger.

Smallwood is one of the best coverage ILBs in the draft.  Sheppard couldn't cover in man to man to save his life.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I just dont see what the big deal is about Smallwood,, He 6'3, has some speed but doesn't even hit like many 5'11" ILB's in this draft and has trouble disengaging from his blocks often

Smallwood can cover.  If we need a coverage ILB, then he's a good place to start.  No one is saying he's Patrick Willis, but a majority of the ILBs in this draft (Skov, Borland) would not be a fit in our man scheme.  

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Smallwood can cover.  If we need a coverage ILB, then he's a good place to start.  No one is saying he's Patrick Willis, but a majority of the ILBs in this draft (Skov, Borland) would not be a fit in our man scheme.  

IMO we need a hitter a real thummper you can find cover guys for passing downs or a twiner safety!

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

IMO we need a hitter a real thummper you can find cover guys for passing downs or a twiner safety!

Not with the way our defensive scheme is run.  Both our ILBs are in man coverage way way too often for guys like Skov, Borland, and even Spikes to not be completely exposed.  We need to change our playcalling on defense or get ILBs that can cover.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

IMO we need a hitter a real thummper you can find cover guys for passing downs or a twiner safety!

"passing downs" You mean like every down potentially save for the 3rd and 1s or 4th and inches? 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Not with the way our defensive scheme is run.  Both our ILBs are in man coverage way way too often for guys like Skov, Borland, and even Spikes to not be completely exposed.  We need to change our playcalling on defense or get ILBs that can cover.

If we do that our run defense will be for %. If are pass rush was better they don't need to cover as long! I still want Borland, don't like Skov looks & plays soft to me!

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

"passing downs" You mean like every down potentially save for the 3rd and 1s or 4th and inches? 

No play him in the bass, If Freeman didn't have to tackle everyone he would be an OK pass defender. In Obvious pass downs bring in another guy, an get a better pass rusher to help, Mathis. If we don't stop the run we will see a whole bunch more of the New England butt whipping next year!

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

No play him in the bass, If Freeman didn't have to tackle everyone he would be an OK pass defender. In Obvious pass downs bring in another guy, an get a better pass rusher to help, Mathis. If we don't stop the run we will see a whole bunch more of the New England butt whipping next year!

Ok that makes more sense. But in this day and age you really do need a guy that can cover for 4 downs on a series. I think Smallwood is that guy.

 

Also is English your first language? If not, where are you from? I love learning about where other people are from.

[Superman]

No play him in the bass, If Freeman didn't have to tackle everyone he would be an OK pass defender. In Obvious pass downs bring in another guy, an get a better pass rusher to help, Mathis. If we don't stop the run we will see a whole bunch more of the New England butt whipping next year!

 

Drafting Smallwood potentially scratches both itches. He's a versatile and athletic linebacker who can develop into a true every down backer. I think he can be better than Freeman in coverage and against the run. I'm not sure why anyone would be against drafting him because they think we need a certain kind of linebacker. He can be whatever kind of linebacker you're looking for. Potentially..

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Drafting Smallwood potentially scratches both itches. He's a versatile and athletic linebacker who can develop into a true every down backer. I think he can be better than Freeman in coverage and against the run. I'm not sure why anyone would be against drafting him because they think we need a certain kind of linebacker. He can be whatever kind of linebacker you're looking for. Potentially..

Not sure he is big enough I would prefer a guy somewhere between 240 & 260 I think Smallwood is 230? Freeman is on the smaller side a big intimidating guy would be nice next to him!

[Gavin]

Not sure he is big enough I would prefer a guy somewhere between 240 & 260 I think Smallwood is 230? Freeman is on the smaller side a big intimidating guy would be nice next to him!

6'3" 236lbs....Looks like he has long arms(Great for helping an ILB shed or take on blocks if he has strength) though but I dont have his measurement on that, He looks like he has the frame to get bigger...Probably in 250-256 range

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

6'3" 236lbs....Looks like he has long arms though but I dont have his measurement on that, He looks like he has the frame to get bigger...Probably in 250-256 range

Long arms 250

[husker61]

6'3" 236lbs....Looks like he has long arms(Great for helping an ILB shed or take on blocks if he has strength) though but I dont have his measurement on that, He looks like he has the frame to get bigger...Probably in 250-256 range

 

i was going to say the same thing. you can add muscle and grow into your frame with maturity, but not height. being over weight at a young age is much more of a problem.

[Indi Warrior]

I can't speak for everyone, but I want an ILB with good coverage skills.  That doesn't seem to be Skov's strong point.

In my mind, stopping the run comes first before the pass, just like running the ball comes before passing it- I'm old school that way. While Skov's weakest point may be in his coverage, he more than makes up for it being an unquestioned, battle-tested leader with an intense motor that never stops. I'd love him on our defense.

[Superman]

Not sure he is big enough I would prefer a guy somewhere between 240 & 260 I think Smallwood is 230? Freeman is on the smaller side a big intimidating guy would be nice next to him!

 

 

6'3" 236lbs....Looks like he has long arms(Great for helping an ILB shed or take on blocks if he has strength) though but I dont have his measurement on that, He looks like he has the frame to get bigger...Probably in 250-256 range

 

He's listed at 244. We'll see where he weighs in at the Combine.

[Superman]

Also, Kyle Van Noy can play ILB in our system. Would be a good hybrid Sam/Will for us. 

[esmort]

In my mind, stopping the run comes first before the pass, just like running the ball comes before passing it- I'm old school that way. While Skov's weakest point may be in his coverage, he more than makes up for it being an unquestioned, battle-tested leader with an intense motor that never stops. I'd love him on our defense.

 

I agree stopping the run is very important, and don't want an ILB who is a liability against the run. But, I would prefer an ILB who might only rate "good" (not "very good/elite") against the run, but who is also good in coverage over one who is an elite run stopper that is useless in coverage. In the current NFL not being able to cover TEs, stop those short crossing routes/slants, etc ... will get you beat just as fast as having trouble stopping the run IMO.

[Indi Warrior]

I agree stopping the run is very important, and don't want an ILB who is a liability against the run. But, I would prefer an ILB who might only rate "good" (not "very good/elite") against the run, but who is also good in coverage over one who is an elite run stopper that is useless in coverage. In the current NFL not being able to cover TEs, stop those short crossing routes/slants, etc ... will get you beat just as fast as having trouble stopping the run IMO.

He might not be equally as great against the pass as against the run, but what ILB at the end of the 2nd round is? We're not picking up top ten talent as it appears right now, but we're looking for a good base with terrific potential, and I believe Skov exceeds that.

[chad72]

Chris Borland, ILB, from Wisconsin has had an outstanding Senior Bowl. He might be the best one available at the end of round 2.

 

Read this: http://q.usatoday.com/2014/01/22/senior-bowl-draft-risers-fallers-nfl-draft-wednesday/

 

I remember wanting Matt Forte after the Senior Bowl but he went mid round 2 to the Bears before we had our 2nd round pick in 2008. But then, we did not have our 1st round pick, just like this time. However, recently, Grigson wanted to wait around till he got his hands on Casey Hayward and Asa Jackson in rounds 3 and round 5, I think in the 2012 draft and both plans fell through.

 

It is OK to reach by a round for a prospect you believe in. Polian has done it several times, several GMs have done it. After the first round, unless a first round talent drops to the bottom of the 2nd round (less likely), not a huge difference between a guy slotted as a late 2nd round pick vs 3rd round pick in your late round 2 spot, especially if you believe in that 3rd round pick.

 

People might think Chris Borland, a potential 3rd rounder, is a reach but at the end of round 2, if you have a solid player who exceeds expectations, that is all you can ask for in this inexact science that is the draft. He will be one such kind.

[Superman]

Chris Borland, ILB, from Wisconsin has had an outstanding Senior Bowl. He might be the best one available at the end of round 2.

 

Read this: http://q.usatoday.com/2014/01/22/senior-bowl-draft-risers-fallers-nfl-draft-wednesday/

 

I remember wanting Matt Forte after the Senior Bowl but he went mid round 2 to the Bears before we had our 2nd round pick in 2008. But then, we did not have our 1st round pick, just like this time. However, recently, Grigson wanted to wait around till he got his hands on Casey Hayward and Asa Jackson in rounds 3 and round 5, I think in the 2012 draft and both plans fell through.

 

It is OK to reach by a round for a prospect you believe in. Polian has done it several times, several GMs have done it. After the first round, unless a first round talent drops to the bottom of the 2nd round (less likely), not a huge difference between a guy slotted as a late 2nd round pick vs 3rd round pick in your late round 2 spot, especially if you believe in that 3rd round pick.

 

People might think Chris Borland, a potential 3rd rounder, is a reach but at the end of round 2, if you have a solid player who exceeds expectations, that is all you can ask for in this inexact science that is the draft. He will be one such kind.

 

I agree with your concept and philosophy, for the most part. But I don't like Borland, not for our defense. Put him in the middle of a 4-3, where he doesn't have to engage blockers as often and his limited athleticism aren't as easy to exploit, and I think he'll be solid. But he'd be a big liability in a 3-4, probably worse than Pat Angerer.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I agree with your concept and philosophy, for the most part. But I don't like Borland, not for our defense. Put him in the middle of a 4-3, where he doesn't have to engage blockers as often and his limited athleticism aren't as easy to exploit, and I think he'll be solid. But he'd be a big liability in a 3-4, probably worse than Pat Angerer.

I don't see it that way. Angerer is not near as strong as this guy. My hope is we draft him! In the article it even says he continually stood up Ol men. You are either a football player or not I think this guy is.

[wig]

If the Colts get a Backer I'd like to see them snag Zumwalt in the third. Won't be as good but reminds me of Kiko Alonso. Plays a bit nasty, blitzes well, and can cover.

[chad72]

I don't see it that way. Angerer is not near as strong as this guy. My hope is we draft him! In the article it even says he continually stood up Ol men. You are either a football player or not I think this guy is.

 

I agree. If you look at Navarro Bowman and Patrick Willis, the measurables are similar. Both Willis and Bowman are in the low 240s and are 6'1" and 6'0" respectively. If this guy plays as physical like he did at the Senior Bowl, you have to look at him.

[Superman]

I agree. If you look at Navarro Bowman and Patrick Willis, the measurables are similar. Both Willis and Bowman are in the low 240s and are 6'1" and 6'0" respectively. If this guy plays as physical like he did at the Senior Bowl, you have to look at him.

 

Patrick Willis is way faster than Borland, and even then he wasn't drafted to play in a 3-4. And I'm pretty sure he's bigger than 240 at this point. And Bowman was highly rated in coverage and ran well. Even then, he got drafted late in the third round. 

 

My issues with Borland are primarily about range and coverage. I just don't think he's a good fit for our system. I know he's a "player," but he's not the only player in the draft at ILB. It just makes more sense to me to get a scheme fit. 

[NewColtsFan]

Patrick Willis is way faster than Borland, and even then he wasn't drafted to play in a 3-4. And I'm pretty sure he's bigger than 240 at this point. And Bowman was highly rated in coverage and ran well. Even then, he got drafted late in the third round. 

 

My issues with Borland are primarily about range and coverage. I just don't think he's a good fit for our system. I know he's a "player," but he's not the only player in the draft at ILB. It just makes more sense to me to get a scheme fit. 

 

He wasn't?

 

I thought SF has been playing a 3-4 for quite a number of years?    Yes?    No?    

 

Someone?    Anyone?  

 

If they were playing a 4-3,  when did they make the switch?    

[Superman]

He wasn't?

 

I thought SF has been playing a 3-4 for quite a number of years?    Yes?    No?    

 

Someone?    Anyone?  

 

If they were playing a 4-3,  when did they make the switch?    

 

That's my bad. They actually made the switch right as the drafted Willis. I was thinking he pre-dated the Mike Nolan era, but he did not. Nolan was hired in 2005, they took a couple years to actually make the transition, and did so officially in 2007, which is when Willis was hired.

 

The other points stand, mainly that Willis never had the range questions that Borland has.

[NewColtsFan]

That's my bad. They actually made the switch right as the drafted Willis. I was thinking he pre-dated the Mike Nolan era, but he did not. Nolan was hired in 2005, they took a couple years to actually make the transition, and did so officially in 2007, which is when Willis was hired.

 

The other points stand, mainly that Willis never had the range questions that Borland has.

 

No worries.

 

Honestly,  I trust your memory much more than I do my own.

 

Since my fanaticism for Stanford went into overdrive around 1999, my interest in the NFL has lessoned since then, so I wasn't 100% sure on the 49ers and Willis.

 

My interest in the NFL renewed as Luck as arrived.....

 

I try to follow it close enough that I understand what things mean to my favorite team -- that fun team from the great state of Indiana.

 

Otherwise, I prefer Big Picture issues and trends to NFL minutia...   some of that can make my poor head explode!

 

Anyway.....   I'm rambling now....   a sure sign that I'm fading and will soon be off to sleep!    

Always a good thing!    

[chad72]

Patrick Willis is way faster than Borland, and even then he wasn't drafted to play in a 3-4. And I'm pretty sure he's bigger than 240 at this point. And Bowman was highly rated in coverage and ran well. Even then, he got drafted late in the third round. 

 

My issues with Borland are primarily about range and coverage. I just don't think he's a good fit for our system. I know he's a "player," but he's not the only player in the draft at ILB. It just makes more sense to me to get a scheme fit. 

 

My role for Borland would be strong side ILB while Freeman is the coverage/weak side ILB. If you get a guy like Shayne Skov who is a thumper too, the same questions/strengths will apply.

 

Our issue right now is forcing teams to pass on us by forcing 3rd and longs, which we have not done consistently. We can worry about coverage once we stop the run more effectively. So, get the stronger run defender for ILB and the experienced guy like Freeman can play the coverage portion. If we are playing nickel, the strong side ILB can come off making room for a nickel CB or 3rd safety.

 

Besides, Navarro Bowman that we know now was picked in round 3.

[Superman]

My role for Borland would be strong side ILB while Freeman is the coverage/weak side ILB. If you get a guy like Shayne Skov who is a thumper too, the same questions/strengths will apply.

 

Our issue right now is forcing teams to pass on us by forcing 3rd and longs, which we have not done consistently. We can worry about coverage once we stop the run more effectively. So, get the stronger run defender for ILB and the experienced guy like Freeman can play the coverage portion. If we are playing nickel, the strong side ILB can come off making room for a nickel CB or 3rd safety.

 

Besides, Navarro Bowman that we know now was picked in round 3.

 

I have the same worries about Skov in coverage/range, but Skov has the ILB body to hold up against the run. And he's also a "player," no doubt about it. All other things equal, I'd go with Skov over Borland. But I don't think either of them are right for our defense.

 

Two points, just to elaborate on my viewpoint a bit:

 

1) We typically don't take our strongside ILB off the field in nickel situations. We usually sub an OLB and/or a defensive lineman. The goal, from what I can see, is to keep our two ILBs on the field as often as possible. We'll sub them situationally, but nickel subs isn't one of those situations. Couple that with the fact that more teams are passing on early downs and more teams have athletic QBs, and I'm not ecstatic about the idea of adding a range-impaired ILB. I just keep seeing replays of the Raiders game and the Chargers game, where in the first we couldn't do anything about Pryor, and in the second, our linebackers got taken apart with crossing routes. I see Borland adding to those issues, not helping them.

 

2) The fan base spent several years complaining about the Dungy/Polian linebacker -- the undersized guy who gets worn down facing pro blockers (some have even blamed the Colts perennial injury bug on this undersized obsession). That's Borland, except he doesn't have the speed that the Dungy/Polian backer would have. 

 

I recognize the guy as a talented player. I just don't think he fits our front. (I said earlier, there are other players that I absolutely LOVE, but don't think they fit what we're doing or what we need -- Aaron Donald, Allen Robinson, etc. I'm not just picking on Borland.) Let's see how he runs at his pro day and the Combine. 

 

Totally JMO.