Roughing the passer penalty on 49ers vs Brees...

[Nostrils]

I was watching when it happened, it was a bad call.  Also, Troy has had too many hits to the head if he thought that call was correct.  I have said for a long time now, most color commentators just say something to be saying something no matter how nonsensical it is.

 

 

yep like collingsworth saying it was a successful drive when kc was down 14 late in 3rd or early in the 4th...

 

gary danielson and verne lundquist on saturdays on cbs are terrible, im all for longevity and theyve been doing it for so long and are legends so replacing them wont happen til they pass on probably, but they never make sense....and gruden is just great at making anyone sound like they will be a first ballot hof.... a teams 5th wr catches his first pass of the season in week 11 and gruden will go on about his dedication to route running and using his hands to catch everything, and of course "has been watching the kid play for years" lol

 

i get it, understand completely.... need it for entertainment, blah blah blah.....but what bothers me is fans "drink the kool-aid"

 

meaning: the commentators will say some nonsense and "oh because cris collingsworth said it was the right call, it must be...." when clearly it wasn't.  people see with their ears and not with their eyes

[Nostrils]

You guys have no room to talk considering how many roughing the passer flags constantly get called on Andrew Luck.

 

 

adorable lol

[Nostrils]

Whatever

 

 

When Luck, Manning or Brady get roughing the passer calls, it's not a problem. No one ever brings it up, but lately I have seen many of a time Luck gets hit and you see the flags come and grant the penalty.

 

Brees gets one, it's a problem and it's totally wrong. Like most the time, it's always brought up how the Saints get calls that go their way in every win, but some how the Colts never get any calls, or the Pats don't, or especially the Denver Manning's who didn't receive one offensive penalty in the entire game last week.

 

 

Say what you want to say, I don't care. I could have said a lot about the New England game and all the strange flags that helped the Pats but I didn't. The Saints played very well today, and like it or not, we won.

 

 

we? lol yeah i'm sure u had a great hand in helping the saints win the game...

 

you are trippin!!!  many a times huh???? come with some instances in which it has happened then.....????  since you have seen it many a times....

[Nostrils]

It's not that difficult to go a bit lower on a stationary player. This wasn't some band bang play on a receiver....Brooks has no one to blame but himself.

 

lolllllll I love your posts.  "he's misstra know it allllll"... I love it

[dw49]

You guys have no room to talk considering how many roughing the passer flags constantly get called on Andrew Luck.

 

Are we getting more than our share ? I looked for a stat and couldn't find one. Rather than post something like that , why don't you make the point that the call was for hitting Brees in the neck rather than the head which many posters are saying here. No doubt this was not a head shot , but that as I said was not the call. 

[amfootball]

I think why the call is getting so much attention is because it decided the game. The niners had the ball after Brees fumbled with three minutes to go. That is a brutal call no matter how you look at it. And I don't think it was some favoritism toward Brees but a knee jerk reaction because his head snapped to the side. This is why the calls should be reviewed. It was so clear from the tape that no contact with the head was made and that Brees lowered himself making the defender grab around his neck when he originally targeted his chest.

[dw49]

I think why the call is getting so much attention is because it decided the game. The niners had the ball after Brees fumbled with three minutes to go. That is a brutal call no matter how you look at it. And I don't think it was some favoritism toward Brees but a knee jerk reaction because his head snapped to the side. This is why the calls should be reviewed. It was so clear from the tape that no contact with the head was made and that Brees lowered himself making the defender grab around his neck when he originally targeted his chest.

 

 

Tough spot for the NFL. As of today , there are 9 QB's on injured reserve. BTW... are you aware that the call was not for a head shot ? They also can't hit a QB in the neck and that's what was called. But as you say , he ducked a bit and if nothing else it would make this unfair. However , I would bet that by rule , that call was at least boarder line legit.

 

 

Just looking at the replay again and that was pretty clearly a hit to the neck area ... which is by rule a penalty. I also don't see Brees do anything much that would make Brooks "miss the target."

[amfootball]

Tough spot for the NFL. As of today , there are 9 QB's on injured reserve. BTW... are you aware that the call was not for a head shot ? They also can't hit a QB in the neck and that's what was called. But as you say , he ducked a bit and if nothing else it would make this unfair. However , I would bet that by rule , that call was at least boarder line legit.

I heard that about the neck but had never heard that before. It was head shots not neck shots. But if that is what the rule says so be it.

 

In terms of the QBs on IR, not sure what to do. Anymore rules to protect them and the integrity of the game is gonzo. At some point, you have to accept the injuries but I get that the NFL does not want to lose its star players. What is happening in GB is ugly but honestly, the hit on Rodgers seemed like nothing but it broke his collarbone. What can you do?

[Yehoodi]

I heard that about the neck but had never heard that before. It was head shots not neck shots. But if that is what the rule says so be it.

 

In terms of the QBs on IR, not sure what to do. Anymore rules to protect them and the integrity of the game is gonzo. At some point, you have to accept the injuries but I get that the NFL does not want to lose its star players. What is happening in GB is ugly but honestly, the hit on Rodgers seemed like nothing but it broke his collarbone. What can you do?

 

I think the NFL includes the neck area as part of the head . . . which is just fine by me . . . it is the same area they use in Rubgy . . . that is you can not hit at or above the shoulders when you tackle . . . you can really only tackle the torso . . . funny how some sports get the rules right and do not have fans complaining all the time like we get all the time from the whiners fans of the NFL and all of their whiney flag football comments . . . it is getting kind of tiring frankly . . .  one does not heard rugby fans talking like this, they understand the rules and accept them . . . 

 

As for the call itself I found it to be a good call . . . I know some in this thread have commented about the height, but you take the player as you see him . . . also, the SF player could of tackled lower and perhaps at the ball which have been a nice and typical play/tackle . . . but he chose to essentially clothesline Brees then whip around him as his arms went up and nearly took off Brees' helmet and head . . . and then I come on to this board last night after the KC/DEN game and have people on this site (not u AM) not able to put 2+2 and wonder why what happened was wrong . . .  I just don't understand some fans . . .

[James Harden]

One of the worst roughing calls I have ever seen. They really should review those as it was clear Brees was not touched in the head area.

I have been wondering since you have a Tom Brady picture and also a quote about Tom from Gruden, but are you a Patriots fan?

[dw49]

I heard that about the neck but had never heard that before. It was head shots not neck shots. But if that is what the rule says so be it.

 

In terms of the QBs on IR, not sure what to do. Anymore rules to protect them and the integrity of the game is gonzo. At some point, you have to accept the injuries but I get that the NFL does not want to lose its star players. What is happening in GB is ugly but honestly, the hit on Rodgers seemed like nothing but it broke his collarbone. What can you do?

 

 

I don't think they can go forward even an "inch" protecting QB's anymore than what they do now.

[dw49]

I think the NFL includes the neck area as part of the head . . . which is just fine by me . . . it is the same area they use in Rubgy . . . that is you can not hit at or above the shoulders when you tackle . . . you can really only tackle the torso . . . funny how some sports get the rules right and do not have fans complaining all the time like we get all the time from the whiners fans of the NFL and all of their whiney flag football comments . . . it is getting kind of tiring frankly . . .  one does not heard rugby fans talking like this, they understand the rules and accept them . . . 

 

As for the call itself I found it to be a good call . . . I know some in this thread have commented about the height, but you take the player as you see him . . . also, the SF player could of tackled lower and perhaps at the ball which have been a nice and typical play/tackle . . . but he chose to essentially clothesline Brees then whip around him as his arms went up and nearly took off Brees' helmet and head . . . and then I come on to this board last night after the KC/DEN game and have people on this site (not u AM) not able to put 2+2 and wonder why what happened was wrong . . .  I just don't understand some fans . . .

 

 

Yeah.. how can you blame an official for making the correct call ?  There really is no point to be made by the fact that it changed who won the game. 

[Yehoodi]

Yeah.. how can you blame an official for making the correct call ?  There really is no point to be made by the fact that it changed who won the game. 

 

no there isn't, but at times calls at critical times will get more attention, which we all know will happen . . . dw49 what we can hope for though is that when we meet in person or over the web, that cooler heads will prevail and we all forget about the media hype and as reasonable fans sit back and discussion the matter . . . I think if most fans look at this from a right wrong perspective and forget about macho and set the testosterone aside and realize that many rules are in place to prevent injuries, they will see that it was a good call to make . . . and then one the call is decided to be a good call, then the timing it not relevant . . .

[amfootball]

I have been wondering since you have a Tom Brady picture and also a quote about Tom from Gruden, but are you a Patriots fan?

Yes, Pats fan but bigger fan of football in general. Wish the NFL season was year round ...

[dw49]

no there isn't, but at times calls at critical times will get more attention, which we all know will happen . . . dw49 what we can hope for though is that when we meet in person or over the web, that cooler heads will prevail and we all forget about the media hype and as reasonable fans sit back and discussion the matter . . . I think if most fans look at this from a right wrong perspective and forget about macho and set the testosterone aside and realize that many rules are in place to prevent injuries, they will see that it was a good call to make . . . and then one the call is decided to be a good call, then the timing it not relevant . . .

 

 

Agree. Also we have to realize that these defenders are now like 250lb , 3% body fat missiles now. 

[BOTT]

lolllllll I love your posts.  "he's misstra know it allllll"... I love it

Yes, how dare I come to a forum and express an opinion. If you can't handle some else's opinion maybe forums aren't for you.

[crazycolt1]

One of the worst roughing calls I have ever seen. They really should review those as it was clear Brees was not touched in the head area.

I guess thats why the blood was coming out of Bresses mouth. I didn't like the call but the way the rules are written it was a call that is expected to be called on any QB.

[Superman]

I haven't read the rule recently, but I do believe it specifies contact to the neck of the QB. Not sure, but that's exactly what the ref said. All these people who watched the video or the gif of the play without hearing the official announce the call are explaining very well that Brees wasn't hit in the head, but that couldn't be more irrelevant.

[Nostrils]

Yes, how dare I come to a forum and express an opinion. If you can't handle some else's opinion maybe forums aren't for you.

Lolllllll.... I think it's cute, love how you talk like you know it all but continue to sound ridiculous... Keep it up, I LOVE it!

[BOTT]

Lolllllll.... I think it's cute, love how you talk like you know it all but continue to sound ridiculous... Keep it up, I LOVE it!

I would give my opinion on your posts, but I don't remember any of them. If your last two posts are any indication, I haven't missed anything.

[BOTT]

I haven't read the rule recently, but I do believe it specifies contact to the neck of the QB. Not sure, but that's exactly what the ref said. All these people who watched the video or the gif of the play without hearing the official announce the call are explaining very well that Brees wasn't hit in the head, but that couldn't be more irrelevant.

I think that's the rule they used on nick Perry's hit on Luck last year.

[amfootball]

I haven't read the rule recently, but I do believe it specifies contact to the neck of the QB. Not sure, but that's exactly what the ref said. All these people who watched the video or the gif of the play without hearing the official announce the call are explaining very well that Brees wasn't hit in the head, but that couldn't be more irrelevant.

It is not the hit the head part but the fact that the refs made a crucial call that had a direct effect on the game and it appeared to be borderline at best. But you are right. After the explanation of the rule it is a good call but still one that you have to question at that juncture of the game.

[Superman]

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_2013_Player_Conduct.pdf

 

(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is: 

(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, even 

if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the passer’s neck, and regardless of 

whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; 

 

 

 

There's the rule.

 

The question isn't whether he hit him in the head. The question is whether he hit him in the neck. That's the call that was made, and the rule prohibits contact to the neck of a player in a defenseless posture (which applies to a QB in the pocket).

[Superman]

It is not the hit the head part but the fact that the refs made a crucial call that had a direct effect on the game and it appeared to be borderline at best. But you are right. After the explanation of the rule it is a good call but still one that you have to question at that juncture of the game.

 

My whole thing is, that was a very difficult call to make at live speed. We watch a hundred replays and criticize the refs, but they have to make these decisions -- including judgment calls like roughing -- in a split second.

 

And no matter what the state of the game is, I don't really want refs trying to worry about the impact that their calls have on the game. That's the players' job. If you don't want to get called for rouging, be careful not to commit a penalty.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, I don't really like the call. It's clearly a violation, but I don't like how that rule impacts the normal actions of the defender. Seems overly restrictive. But if the refs see a violation, they should call it. And at live speed, seeing the QB get rocked like that, it's not difficult to understand the reason for the flag. It sucks that it had such a big impact on the game (a game that the Niners still had plenty of opportunity to win, by the way). But I don't think that the refs should swallow their whistle when the game is on the line. When you see a penalty, call it, plain and simple.

[dw49]

My whole thing is, that was a very difficult call to make at live speed. We watch a hundred replays and criticize the refs, but they have to make these decisions -- including judgment calls like roughing -- in a split second.

 

And no matter what the state of the game is, I don't really want refs trying to worry about the impact that their calls have on the game. That's the players' job. If you don't want to get called for rouging, be careful not to commit a penalty.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, I don't really like the call. It's clearly a violation, but I don't like how that rule impacts the normal actions of the defender. Seems overly restrictive. But if the refs see a violation, they should call it. And at live speed, seeing the QB get rocked like that, it's not difficult to understand the reason for the flag. It sucks that it had such a big impact on the game (a game that the Niners still had plenty of opportunity to win, by the way). But I don't think that the refs should swallow their whistle when the game is on the line. When you see a penalty, call it, plain and simple.

 

 

  They do that (eat the flag at crunch time) enough with PI and offensive holding now and if you're on the wrong side that it's pretty frustrating. If they started that with roughing calls , I believe it would be a mockery of the rules.

[Coltsince4]

Bunch a freakin ninny QB's that call got me hot.............. oh i better say no more come on.........        

[Synthetic]

 

 

Did you people even watch this? He nearly twisted Brees head off, and you're arguing that the Saints get lucky calls and stuff?

 

 

I just don't get it most the time. People need to just admit, you hate the Saints. Most of this board still is incredibly bitter over our Super Bowl win. As evidence with all the incredible negativity towards them and comments about how bad our fanbase is, how bad we are as a team, how we get lucky breaks from calls. I complain too, but it's not excessive until we actually do win.

 

 

Next time I see Luck barely tapped and the flags fly, I am totally posting it, but this hit was still pretty brutal. Brees' neck stretched like a cartoon, and everyone wants to defend the hit.

 

If it was Brett Favre or Kurt Warner from 2009, we'd still be hearing about it years later.

 

 

If this was a "bad call" then so was that hit on Luck against the Packers last year that was totally unnecessary. Just saying, you can't have it both ways without contradiction.

 

 

Let this be my final post on the subject

 

 

 

 

That picture alone speaks volumes. Say what you want to say, but he's got his hand over the facemask and pulling on Brees' helmet.

 

 

If that was Luck or Manning you would all be screaming that Brooks be suspended for it, but since it's the quarterback you hate, it's different.

[House]

Did you people even watch this? He nearly twisted Brees head off, and you're arguing that the Saints get lucky calls and stuff?

I just don't get it most the time. People need to just admit, you hate the Saints. Most of this board still is incredibly bitter over our Super Bowl win. As evidence with all the incredible negativity towards them and comments about how bad our fanbase is, how bad we are as a team, how we get lucky breaks from calls. I complain too, but it's not excessive until we actually do win.

Next time I see Luck barely tapped and the flags fly, I am totally posting it, but this hit was still pretty brutal. Brees' neck stretched like a cartoon, and everyone wants to defend the hit.

If it was Brett Favre or Kurt Warner from 2009, we'd still be hearing about it years later.

If this was a "bad call" then so was that hit on Luck against the Packers last year that was totally unnecessary. Just saying, you can't have it both ways without contradiction.

Let this be my final post on the subject

That picture alone speaks volumes. Say what you want to say, but he's got his hand over the facemask and pulling on Brees' helmet.

If that was Luck or Manning you would all be screaming that Brooks be suspended for it, but since it's the quarterback you hate, it's different.

Waw it was a clean hit. Luck or Saints have nothing to do with it.

You just don't like it because it's the story of your win, instead of the actual game.

[Nostrils]

I would give my opinion on your posts, but I don't remember any of them. If your last two posts are any indication, I haven't missed anything.

 

 

lol adorable

[BOTT]

Zing

[Moose Of Woe]

If that was Luck or Manning you would all be screaming that Brooks be suspended for it, but since it's the quarterback you hate, it's different.

 

I don't hate the Saints. Apart from an onsides kick I think we got hosed out of, Baskett still coughed it up when he should have held on for dear life. Freeney was injured and we had zero pass rush for the entire second half. We got outplayed and, more importantly, outcoached. Brees is imo a fantastic QB and any team would be fortunate to have him.

 

It was a clean hit.

 

Luck has gotten a few bad RTP calls too, sure. Peyton's had plenty in the past. Although lately I can't even recall the last time Peyton got a RTP call. Now people dive for his ankles late and he gets nothing. He doesn't complain about it,  just gets up and does his job. He got twisted like a pretzel VS Washington years ago that led to his neck injury and no call on it. He responded by missing one play and kicked their rears in to the ground.

[dw49]

Here ya go guys. This pretty much puts it to rest in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

On Tuesday, NFL vice president of officiating Dean Blandino said the officials in Sunday's game got the call right.

"You can't make forcible contact to the head or the neck area, even if the contact starts below the neck and rises up," Blandino explained in an appearance on NFL Network. "If there's force to that contact, it's a foul. Watch the initial contact, maybe around the shoulder, but it rides up into the neck area and brings the quarterback down with force.

"That's why the flag was thrown for unnecessary roughness."