McShay on Colts Draft Needs

[dw49]

I'm operating under the assumption that Pagano is trying to build a Raven-like defense. If that is true and it seems to stand given the comparisons between players then Werner would be most likely to receive a role similar to Terrell Suggs.

 

 

My question wasn't directed at your post. I should have written "all of the above." Meaning the whole thread.

 

My point was that no one mentioned we might have a big need for a pass rusher in this draft if Werner doesn't look capable of being a force rushing the passer. Mathis is getting up there and a team needs at least two good pass rushers to begin with. 

[BOTT]

I think he is a year or 2 from having a break out really given the time he had missed do to injury and the time it could take for him to fully recover

He's missed what? 4 games? I'm not sure it takes a year or two to make up for it. And his injury wasn't that severe...he is actually better having tore it completely.

[danlhart87]

Colts biggest draft need depends on how they attack the FA market. If they get a WR like Maclin (hope not) then that rules out that. I strongly hope they go D early and often in the draft! Andrew Jackson is a guy that I have always been really high on and would love to either trade back into the 3rd or take a chance at him falling to the late 3rd.

[Gavin]

He's missed what? 4 games? I'm not sure it takes a year or two to make up for it. And his injury wasn't that severe...he is actually better having tore it completely.

I see what your sayin but none of us are him or have his body, So while we expect him to be back to his usual self quick, I think it could take him a bit longer to get his wind going again

[dw49]

He's missed what? 4 games? I'm not sure it takes a year or two to make up for it. And his injury wasn't that severe...he is actually better having tore it completely.

 

 

Yeah a year or two is pretty generous for not playing in 4 games. Besides he's still at practice and hopefully learning. Plenty of players don't play much their rookie years and are big contributors in their second year. Werner should not be set back next year in the least as a result of this. Yes , it's possible he could be a bit more of a factor going forward this year but ... I guess Gavin maybe would want to take that one back ?

[Balzer40]

Defense is easier if you have a lead.

 

 

 

Hey Bill Polian, quit trolling our forum! 

[Gavin]

Yeah a year or two is pretty generous for not playing in 4 games. Besides he's still at practice and hopefully learning. Plenty of players don't play much their rookie years and are big contributors in their second year. Werner should not be set back next year in the least as a result of this. Yes , it's possible he could be a bit more of a factor going forward this year but ... I guess Gavin maybe would want to take that one back ?

Maybe, My point was I dont think he will just bounce right back from this injury as if it did not happen, I think it will take a couple games at least, Its a wait and see, Not everybodies body reacts the same to the same injury

[USAFHoosier]

I could see a WR but IMO Center and MLB are also high up there.

[dw49]

Maybe, My point was I dont think he will just bounce right back from this injury as if it did not happen, I think it will take a couple games at least, Its a wait and see, Not everybodies body reacts the same to the same injury

 

 

Got ya

[cm43sports]

Hey Bill Polian, quit trolling our forum! 

Are you serious? Are you trying to argue that a lead doesnt make defense easier? I never said hey throw all the big money at a couple of guys. I never said lets overpay for players like Gary Brackett. One of the primary goals of a defense is to dictate what the opposing offense will do and then stop it. If you get a lead then you take away the opponents ability to run the ball and can play the pass. You act like Bill Polian wasn't a 6time executive of the year and the reason for a superbowl in Indy. Granted it was time for a change but don't act like Polian is someone like Jerry Jones because that's foolish.

[Balzer40]

Are you serious? Are you trying to argue that a lead doesnt make defense easier? I never said hey throw all the big money at a couple of guys. I never said lets overpay for players like Gary Brackett. One of the primary goals of a defense is to dictate what the opposing offense will do and then stop it. If you get a lead then you take away the opponents ability to run the ball and can play the pass. You act like Bill Polian wasn't a 6time executive of the year and the reason for a superbowl in Indy. Granted it was time for a change but don't act like Polian is someone like Jerry Jones because that's foolish.

Most of Polians success here was because of Manning. For yrs. he ignored key areas of the team so he could bring in more offensive skill players. Thats not who we are anymore and forget about Blackmon and Gordon because it will not happen. Espesially Blackmon who just keeps proving he's a jack@$$. If we build the trenches the easier it will be to win. Something I've been preaching for yrs. Now we finally have a GM that knows how to build a balanced team. Don't expect compliments from me about Polian because it won't happen. I grew tired of him yrs. ago.

[cm43sports]

Most of Polians success here was because of Manning. For yrs. he ignored key areas of the team so he could bring in more offensive skill players. Thats not who we are anymore and forget about Blackmon and Gordon because it will not happen. Edpesially Blackmon who just keeps proving he's a jack@$$. If we build the trenches the easier it will be to win. Something I've been preaching for yrs. Now we finally have a GM that knows how to build a balanced team. Don't expect compliments from me about Polian because it won't happen. I grew tired of him yrs. ago.

Did Polian select Manning in the draft? I believe that's a yes, so any of Peyton's success is actually Polian's. Eventually it came back to bite him in the butt like everyone else. In regards to Blackmon, I'm glad you have that low of an opinion of someone that has a problem and I believe it would be reasonable to say you know nothing of him. I believe they should have a balanced team. I also believe Grigson can find linemen and Pagano can coach up defenders so they don't necessarily need "cant miss" talent. Outside of a center and some depth what do you want for the oline? The pieces are already there, Thornton is developing, Holmes is progressing, Thomas is hurt and the tackles are set. On defense, the safeties are there as well as corners (I don't trust Toler but others do), Chapman is the nose and RJF and Montori Hughes I would guess are the longterm DEs. ILB has thrown me for a loop outside of Freeman and Werner and Mathis are the OLBs so what do you want? They cant be all-pros at every position.

[danlhart87]

Polian was a firm believer in staying pat with what you have. I have that same attitude to an extent. I do however appreciate Grigson's ability to make an impact with a trade. He's done with Davis which I hope he's also smart enough to Re-Sign this coming offseason.

[Colts_Fan12]

Ik one thing we need to do and that's draft Shayne Skov

[throwing BBZ]

The Colts only really need a center.

 

 Down to the nuts & bolts of it, I totally agree. We are OK at every starting position based on who should be available next season. I see no reason today to say we don`t already have the receivers here to develope a top, diverse, highly reliable passing attack with.

 

 Beyond that you trust your draft board to pick the guys with the best potential you have identified, because in the long run you need players at every position.

 

 I do feel confident Griggs will be focused year in and year out to keep us strong in the trenches.

Next year will be better, and the year after we should expect Rocks.

[throwing BBZ]

Did Polian select Manning in the draft? I believe that's a yes, so any of Peyton's success is actually Polian's. Eventually it came back to bite him in the butt like everyone else. In regards to Blackmon, I'm glad you have that low of an opinion of someone that has a problem and I believe it would be reasonable to say you know nothing of him. I believe they should have a balanced team. I also believe Grigson can find linemen and Pagano can coach up defenders so they don't necessarily need "cant miss" talent. Outside of a center and some depth what do you want for the oline? The pieces are already there, Thornton is developing, Holmes is progressing, Thomas is hurt and the tackles are set. On defense, the safeties are there as well as corners (I don't trust Toler but others do), Chapman is the nose and RJF and Montori Hughes I would guess are the longterm DEs. ILB has thrown me for a loop outside of Freeman and Werner and Mathis are the OLBs so what do you want? They cant be all-pros at every position.

 

Montori is struggling with his weight to be able to play NT. He could get down to DE size but he has some work to do.

Houstons Center just threw him around, he has a ways to go. I believe in him, and he will be better with time and experience.

 Thornton is no guarantee either. He is having big trouble staying in front of his man, and is rather disappointing in his run blocking and pulling.

 I do believe fans should expect it to take at least 2-3 years for Most of their draft picks to get good enough to be solid against these older pros.

[cm43sports]

Montori is struggling with his weight to be able to play NT. He could get down to DE size but he has some work to do.

Houstons Center just threw him around, he has a ways to go. I believe in him, and he will be better with time and experience.

 Thornton is no guarantee either. He is having big trouble staying in front of his man, and is rather disappointing in his run blocking and pulling.

 I do believe fans should expect it to take at least 2-3 years for Most of their draft picks to get good enough to be solid against these older pros.

This is true. No one can really expect a 3rd or 5th round pick to come in and immediately make an impact, its just unrealistic. They are players that will be there long-term and I don't see Grigson giving up on them after one year.

[Balzer40]

Did Polian select Manning in the draft? I believe that's a yes, so any of Peyton's success is actually Polian's. Eventually it came back to bite him in the butt like everyone else. In regards to Blackmon, I'm glad you have that low of an opinion of someone that has a problem and I believe it would be reasonable to say you know nothing of him. I believe they should have a balanced team. I also believe Grigson can find linemen and Pagano can coach up defenders so they don't necessarily need "cant miss" talent. Outside of a center and some depth what do you want for the oline? The pieces are already there, Thornton is developing, Holmes is progressing, Thomas is hurt and the tackles are set. On defense, the safeties are there as well as corners (I don't trust Toler but others do), Chapman is the nose and RJF and Montori Hughes I would guess are the longterm DEs. ILB has thrown me for a loop outside of Freeman and Werner and Mathis are the OLBs so what do you want? They cant be all-pros at every position.

 

 

 

Boy, are you ever over simplifying Polians role in drafting Manning. To anybody with 2 functioning brain cells, it was an easy choice over Leaf. As far as Blackmon is concerned, he's a dope head(marijuana), Maybe you don't know but it absolutely physically impossible to become addicted to pot. So as far as him having a "problem" the only "problem he has, is that he's a * that keeps throwing his chances down the toilet because he would rather smoke some dope. I know about drug addiction, not only did I kick an addiction, I have also counseled others with a real problem, smoking dope isn't an addiction, it's just being stupid.

[BOTT]

Boy, are you ever over simplifying Polians role in drafting Manning. To anybody with 2 functioning brain cells, it was an easy choice over Leaf. As far as Blackmon is concerned, he's a dope head(marijuana), Maybe you don't know but it absolutely physically impossible to become addicted to pot. So as far as him having a "problem" the only "problem he has, is that he's a * that keeps throwing his chances down the toilet because he would rather smoke some dope. I know about drug addiction, not only did I kick an addiction, I have also counseled others with a real problem, smoking dope isn't an addiction, it's just being stupid.

I thought Blackmon's problem was/is alcohol?

[Dustin]

I thought Blackmon's problem was/is alcohol?

IIRC this is correct.

[Balzer40]

I thought Blackmon's problem was/is alcohol?

 

 

 

I've heard it was mary jane. If it is truly alcohol, then thats a different story, but I also highly doubt that he's truly an alcoholic. It takes a long time to become an alcoholic and continuous daily drinking at all times. A true alcoholic can not even function normally without alcohol in their system. These players that "seek help" and check into rehab programs, are more for show to the public and the media. In truth, they are wasting the counselors time and taking time away from those who really need the help. That may sound harsh, but it's the truth. Most of these athletes just need to grow up.

[tenbears1971]

Coby will become a big target for Luck! I have no doubts he will step up and play well. He already had a nice game Sunday. That will continue.

Don't forget about getting Dwayne Alan back next year. Fleener is more of a finesse receiver whereas Dwayne is a very good blocker and bruiser over the middle.

[tenbears1971]

Coby will become a big target for Luck! I have no doubts he will step up and play well. He already had a nice game Sunday. That will continue.

Don't forget about getting Dwayne Alan back next year. Fleener is more of a finesse receiver whereas Dwayne is a very good blocker and bruiser over the middle.

[Colts_Fan12]

I like brandon Coleman in the 2nd and if we could try to move up in the 3rd and try and get Shayne Skovto pair with freeman sign Mack would be good too

[BOTT]

I've heard it was mary jane. If it is truly alcohol, then thats a different story, but I also highly doubt that he's truly an alcoholic. It takes a long time to become an alcoholic and continuous daily drinking at all times. A true alcoholic can not even function normally without alcohol in their system. These players that "seek help" and check into rehab programs, are more for show to the public and the media. In truth, they are wasting the counselors time and taking time away from those who really need the help. That may sound harsh, but it's the truth. Most of these athletes just need to grow up.

Yeah, I've encountered two alcoholics in my life.....it's a huge step from guys who simply drink too much. What it did to them was horrible.

[Balzer40]

Yeah, I've encountered two alcoholics in my life.....it's a huge step from guys who simply drink too much. What it did to them was horrible.

 

 

 

It is terrible, and thats why I can't consider Blackmon having a real problem...other than being an *. 

[CopenhagenColt]

If there's one area of the team that really needs improvement, it's the O-line. I'm sure Grigson knows this and will adress it in FA/Draft. Thornton wasn't very impressive against the Texans, to say the least. Sure, we'll get Donald Thomas back, but we all know his history with injuries, so can we rely on him for a full season? Given how Satele has been performing, and that Holmes hasn't seen any action yet, I wouldn't bet my money on him being the solution at Center any time soon.

 

I could see us draft a Guard in the second or third round, Yankey, Richardson, Su'a-Filo or Jackson could all be interesting Grigson.

With regards to Center, I think we would all like to see Mack signed, but lets see if he's available when the FA season begins.

WR - It all depends on Reggie. How will his knee heal, and he's not getting younger even if he's still the most reliable WR we have.

[cm43sports]

From how I understand it wasn't that simple, it was more like the Andrew Luck/Robert Griffin situation. Sure it looks like an easy selection now but back then it wasnt that simple. A 3rd round pick or lower for Justin Blackmon is a steal. Blackmon is a good talent and a number 5 overall selection in 2012 on top of the fact that at the end of the 3rd round and lower that the chances of that player being a star are very slim.

[BOTT]

From how I understand it wasn't that simple, it was more like the Andrew Luck/Robert Griffin situation. Sure it looks like an easy selection now but back then it wasnt that simple. A 3rd round pick or lower for Justin Blackmon is a steal. Blackmon is a good talent and a number 5 overall selection in 2012 on top of the fact that at the end of the 3rd round and lower that the chances of that player being a star are very slim.

The Luck/Griffin decision was easy also. For the most part the only debate was between talking heads.

[Carlos Danger]

I suppose it depends on who is available where we pick in the 2nd, but I would jump at a chance to draft a WR like Coleman in the 2nd or DeVante Parker in the 3rd...

 

Interior OL is a bigger need, but those guys take time to develop, so I don't see us getting much 2014 help from the draft. FA at C and hope that Thornton plays better and Holmes develops..

 

WRs impact the game in their rookie seasons. I don't really see the point in paying for a FA to be our 3rd receiver when a quality rookie can take that job and possibly develop into more for far less money. Its true that you know what you are getting with a FA while a draftee is an unknown commodity, but that's also why you can't get a bargain on the FA market (like we have with T.Y., for instance)

 

Of course, there are a bunch of positions where players can make an impact as a rookie... I wouldn't mind seeing Grigs use one of those picks on an ILB or DE...

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I suppose it depends on who is available where we pick in the 2nd, but I would jump at a chance to draft a WR like Coleman in the 2nd or DeVante Parker in the 3rd...

 

Interior OL is a bigger need, but those guys take time to develop, so I don't see us getting much 2014 help from the draft. FA at C and hope that Thornton plays better and Holmes develops..

 

WRs impact the game in their rookie seasons. I don't really see the point in paying for a FA to be our 3rd receiver when a quality rookie can take that job and possibly develop into more for far less money. Its true that you know what you are getting with a FA while a draftee is an unknown commodity, but that's also why you can't get a bargain on the FA market (like we have with T.Y., for instance)

 

Of course, there are a bunch of positions where players can make an impact as a rookie... I wouldn't mind seeing Grigs use one of those picks on an ILB or DE...

Agree with everything you said...I think we have enough prospects to develop on the o-line, we should go out and get one more anchor in FA to really help solidify the o-line (Alex Mack would be my favorite target).  Then use our draft picks on a WR, ILB, CB, and DE, in no particular order.  If we can make these moves, plus re-sign Davis, Bethea,  and McAfee.  Then get Allen, Ballard, Thomas, and Reggie back from injury,  we will have arguably one of the most talented rosters from top to bottom in the NFL.

[NewColtsFan]

Boy, are you ever over simplifying Polians role in drafting Manning. To anybody with 2 functioning brain cells, it was an easy choice over Leaf.

 

I think you know you're one of my favorite posters,  but I think you're very, very wrong on this one.

 

That's the way it looks now....    that's the way it's looked after the fact.

 

But leading up to the draft,  there were a number of teams that like Leaf more.   And not every team that preferred Peyton liked him by a wide margin.

 

History makes the choice seem simple, easy and obvious.   But 15 years ago, it wasn't the case.   Leaf had his share of supporters.    They've all long singe gone quiet....    it's not easy standing up and publicly saying "Yeah, I preferred Leaf to Manning,  and here's why....."

 

Who wants to say that now?       No one.

 

But once upon a time....    some teams actually did prefer Leaf.....

 

Hey,  I'm just sayin......

[SaturdayAllDay]

I think we go after a FA center like Mack, but if things don't go our way I think it wouldn't kill us to resign McGlynn to play center. I know most people arent the biggest fans of him, but hear me out.

 

Our two best games on the ground this year have come from him at center in place of satele. I think we put him there with the thought that even if he isnt stellar at the position he is serviceable until Holmes steps up and shows he can produce. If Holmes isnt the answer then they look to the draft again to build behind McGlynn. It is possible that we get a prospect like Bryan Stork in the mid to late rounds of the draft.

 

I think we need to look at getting another Guard in as well. While Thomas and Thornton will both be around, it wouldn't hurt to have some insurance in case a- Thornton doesn't progress to where we need him or b- Thomas doesn't bounce back as expected.

 

Thoughts?

[Jason_]

The Colts only really need a center.

Idk, I'd welcome a new center and a stud OG.

[adamthyst]

I wouldn't mind a big receiver but I'd prefer they focus on the defense and the atrocious O-Line.

[Pancake Block]

Hakeem Nicks will be available in FA market.  I would really like Donte Moncrief from Ole Miss as a 2nd round WR.  He tips the scales at 226 and if we landed both of these guys we'd be set for years to come.  They both run block, too.

 

Offensive line is a huge need, obviously.  We need to get rid of both of our Raider rejects (Satele and DHB) and upgrade to at least average NFL ability at both of those positions.  I like Gabe Jackson at OG in the draft.  We need a new Center as well.

 

On defense, we have to hope that Werner starts emerging as a 2nd pass rusher.  After returning from injury, he's looking like he's improving.  As usual, we need to add more depth in the secondary.  We really struggle when our first line guys are out.  Nice crop of CBs this year with some size in the Draft.

[Pancake Block]

Here's a potential steal for our OL in the Draft.  Spencer Long out of Nebraska will probably be available either in the 7th round or as an undrafted FA.  Last year he was 1st Team All-Big Ten and 2nd team All-American.  He had a knee injury against Purdue this year that ended his season.  If he checks out medically, he could be a steal at OG.