Julian Edelman leaves Tom Brady hanging

[dgambill]

Yup, it was an amazing throw and an amazing catch at the very end of a game with everything on the line and they converted it, as you said, by inches.  Which further supports the whole "football is a game of inches" phrase that is often quoted, because it literally is a game of inches sometimes!

 

Im still in shock at not only that last play, but that entire last drive.  They converted a fourth down on that drive as well to Collie and a huge 3rd down to Dobson who made the play and then was able to get out of bounds.

 

Truly unbelievable, one of the best come back wins I've ever witnessed by the Patriots.  They needed to score a touchdown and go about 70 yards with no timeouts and 1:13 remaining against an undefeated team that is considered one of the tops in the league and they pulled it off with 5 seconds to spare.

 

Remarkable.

That was truely amazing. I really thought Brady had given up after that failed 4th down conversion with about 3 minutes left. The first possession back after the FG he just throws the worst "I give up" pass I've ever seen....like he was just trying to get the game over. I think he was totally shocked to have another chance and then just ripped out NO's heart. Of all the coaches in the NFL I never thought I would see Sean Payton go conservative like that. Happened to John Fox last year and we've seen it all through time it comes back to bite you against great qbs. Also that pass where Dobson gets out with about 37 seconds....worst time management play I've seen since Bush for the Bears decided to run out of bounds to stop the clock giving it back to Tebow a couple years ago. Dobson was a full 5 or 6 yds from the sideline and the defensive player actually grabbed and spun him around and threw him out of bounds....just stupid. You give Tom Brady extra chances to win....please...he usually only needs one. Imagine if the Giants in either SB would have done stuff like that....Brady would have been 5 time SB champion...NO got beat and I laughed because they desearved to lose....actually...both teams kinda should have lost making some bone headed plays...dropping easy first down passes and throwing terrible ints...but give Tom credit for stepping up and doing the right thing.

[-JJ-]

My opinion is incorrect?

 

I literally cannot palm my face hard enough.

yes. Because as you say its subjective and that he "rubs you" the wrong way.  Whether a player rubs you the right way or wrong way is not an opinion but rather a sentiment. I was explaining well known leader tactics and the results they actually give that are well documented throughout time..

[amfootball]

Sorry, I replied rather defensively at first, mistaking you for another poster.

 

Here's my reply now that I've actually taken the time to look who I'm speaking to:

It's definitely subjective. He just rubs me up the wrong way.

 

Strangely enough, I love Richard Sherman, Brian Cushing and, to a lesser extent, Clay Matthews. I think they have a different type of arrogance though. An arrogance that I can respect and enjoy.

Not strange at all. You just dislike the Pats more probably so anything Brady does rubs you the wrong way. To each his own. I like guys who are demonstrative on the field and show emotion. Can't stand the robotic guys but yet won't deny their success in leading their teams and getting their guys to play hard for them.

 

I think the other thing to consider as well is we only see Sunday during a game and not the countless of hours of practice and teaching time Brady, Manning, Rodgers, etc. are putting in with their receivers. So it is probably unfair to judge any of them just based on what the cameras show us on Sunday.

[ReMeDy]

Strangely enough, I love Richard Sherman, Brian Cushing and, to a lesser extent, Clay Matthews. I think they have a different type of arrogance though. An arrogance that I can respect and enjoy.

 

I'll tell you the missing piece to your love puzzle: One is a QB, the others are not. QB's have to be held to a higher standard in the league. QB's are not supposed to show arrogance. They are the role models for their team, organization, fans, and even the children who aspire to be like them.

 

Sherman, Cushing, and Matthews not only play a different position, they play defense, which are emotionally charged positions. When you make a play on the ball, such players are encouraged to yell, dance, etc. to pump up the home crowd and their players. Players feed off that energy and arrogance. Opposing players can also get rattled. Arrogance is appropriate for these players.

 

That is why when I see Brady get arrogant, I hate him. When I see Brian Cushing get arrogant, I smile.

[ViriLudant]

Sure. But what does throwing your toys out of the pram achieve?

Not sure... What was your explanation for when Peyton used to rip his o-line?

[Shane Bond]

Not sure... What was your explanation for when Peyton used to rip his o-line?

 

LOL, this thread is about Brady and Edelman and Peyton is not even a Colts. More you drag yourself out to pull Peyton into any conversation, it is getting comical.

[Insert Colts Pun Here]

yes. Because as you say its subjective and that he "rubs you" the wrong way.  Whether a player rubs you the right way or wrong way is not an opinion but rather a sentiment. I was explaining well known leader tactics and the results they actually give that are well documented throughout time..

 

Now you're just arguing semantics.

 

My opinion of Tom Brady is subjective. If you can't understand that then I think I'll just leave you to it.

[-JJ-]

Now you're just arguing semantics.

 

My opinion of Tom Brady is subjective. If you can't understand that then I think I'll just leave you to it.

maybe- So your opinion could be he got dissed and I could have an opinion Eldemen didn't see the hand but both are weak opinions because a quick video tells little to nothing of what both players were thinking..as is so much with all these what I call "soap opera" observations so abound on football message boards. Like putting up Ryan's face after the loss. Of course he was despaired.

 

I guess that's a pet peeve of mine of people obsessed with so and so is crying or got dissed by so and so instead of actual football talk. Its always a sideshow.

 

Like Brady getting after his WRs.  Like Manning getting after Saturday. I thought that was fine and didn't need to interject any childish comment other than the QB is the general and should get after his player(s). Certainly not the other way around

[ViriLudant]

Serves him right for constantly acting like a tool.

 

Throwing a hissy fit when your rookie WR drops a pass isn't exactly going to breed respect.

Man, Peyton's o-line must have hated him, the.

(Which we know isn't true, same as we know that it's untrue about Brady and his WRs.)

[dw49]

Blown coverage?  Brady put the ball on a rope and perfectly placed it where only Thompkins could come down with it.  The coverage was there and wasn't horrible, but the pass and catch were perfect and insanely difficult to defend.   

 

Blows my mind that there are some trying to diminish what he did by suggesting that the Saints just blew a coverage outright and gave him the go ahead touchdown.  That couldn't be further from the truth, but as we all know the truth hurts sometimes.

 

 

Unless that poster thought the Saints should have been in a defense that there would be some safety help on that route ?

[amfootball]

Unless that poster thought the Saints should have been in a defense that there would be some safety help on that route ?

Rex Ryan thinks his brother had the right defense called:

 

"Ryan took umbrage with critics who second-guessed his brother's defensive strategy at the end of the game. Ryan didn't name names, but he was clearly miffed. After-the-fact criticism "is the only insight you're going to get from the so-called experts that I've seen get crushed by [brady]," he said. "Now they're going to make that call? Yeah, right. I'd put my chances with a Ryan over somebody else."

 

[dw49]

Rex Ryan thinks his brother had the right defense called:

 

"Ryan took umbrage with critics who second-guessed his brother's defensive strategy at the end of the game. Ryan didn't name names, but he was clearly miffed. After-the-fact criticism "is the only insight you're going to get from the so-called experts that I've seen get crushed by [brady]," he said. "Now they're going to make that call? Yeah, right. I'd put my chances with a Ryan over somebody else."

 

 

 

Not saying I know the answer but two things stick out in my mind over the "crushed by Brady" stuff.

 

1) Usually you see safety help on last ditch efforts into the end zone.

 

2) I love my brother too or "birds of a feather stick together."

[amfootball]

Not saying I know the answer but two things stick out in my mind over the "crushed by Brady" stuff.

 

1) Usually you see safety help on last ditch efforts into the end zone.

 

2) I love my brother too or "birds of a feather stick together."

The DB was right there on Thompkins. You could not have had better coverage. The throw beat him by inches right to the corner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpJoCsnR_GU

 

Brady had his misses throughout the game for sure but that throw was one of the best he has ever made in that situation to a first year guy to boot. Brees had a similar one to take the lead to his WR and Dennard was right there too but the throw beat him. That is why the two of them are among the best in the business.

[dw49]

The DB was right there on Thompkins. You could not have had better coverage. The throw beat him by inches right to the corner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpJoCsnR_GU

 

Brady had his misses throughout the game for sure but that throw was one of the best he has ever made in that situation to a first year guy to boot. Brees had a similar one to take the lead to his WR and Dennard was right there too but the throw beat him. That is why the two of them are among the best in the business.

 

 

Once again , you are drifting off the subject matter. Where do I anywhere , any place speak of the accuracy of the throw or the coverage the NO CB had on that play. I thought we were talking about the defense the Saints were in. Take a look at the beginning of that play and see the defensive alignment. It looks like pretty much a standard defense. You might think there would be more safety help to the outside as a completed pass in bounds ends the game. Safeties might be a little deeper and overall I this appears to be a pretty standard looking defense . I'm not a DC by any means , just bringing up the possibility that maybe this was a bad alignment. As far as why Brees had a similar throw as Brady , I think the Pats had to protect the whole field as it made more sense that Brees would take a 7-8 yard gain on that 3rd and 20. They had plenty of time to kick 2 FG's. In fact I was shocked they went for it all on that 3rd and 20.

[amfootball]

Once again , you are drifting off the subject matter. Where do I anywhere , any place speak of the accuracy of the throw or the coverage the NO CB had on that play. I thought we were talking about the defense the Saints were in. Take a look at the beginning of that play and see the defensive alignment. It looks like pretty much a standard defense. You might think there would be more safety help to the outside as a completed pass in bounds ends the game. Safeties might be a little deeper and overall I this appears to be a pretty standard looking defense . I'm not a DC by any means , just bringing up the possibility that maybe this was a bad alignment. As far as why Brees had a similar throw as Brady , I think the Pats had to protect the whole field as it made more sense that Brees would take a 7-8 yard gain on that 3rd and 20. They had plenty of time to kick 2 FG's. In fact I was shocked they went for it all on that 3rd and 20.

I got you. I am no expert on how the Saints play D but it looks like the safety was coming over when the ball was in the air. From what I understand about the safety especially on a play like that where the Pats were at the 20 so only 30 yards to cover and you know Brady is going end zone, they are acting like a center fielder and reacting to the QB. Brady does look the safety off to start the play if you watch which gives Thompkins the one-on-one. Also, the prior play, Brady threw to Endelmann down the middle which would have been a TD if Endlemann came up with the catch. So it would make sense for the safety to be staying middle and closer to Endleman and Collie then leave the middle open. Also, I think the saftey saw that the corner had great coverage which is the key I think. He was not beat by Thomkins but the throw came right over his outstretched hands and into Thompkins. Brady put just enough air under it.

[dw49]

I got you. I am no expert on how the Saints play D but it looks like the safety was coming over when the ball was in the air. From what I understand about the safety especially on a play like that where the Pats were at the 20 so only 30 yards to cover and you know Brady is going end zone, they are acting like a center fielder and reacting to the QB. Brady does look the safety off to start the play if you watch which gives Thompkins the one-on-one. Also, the prior play, Brady threw to Endelmann down the middle which would have been a TD if Endlemann came up with the catch. So it would make sense for the safety to be staying middle and closer to Endleman and Collie then leave the middle open. Also, I think the saftey saw that the corner had great coverage which is the key I think. He was not beat by Thomkins but the throw came right over his outstretched hands and into Thompkins. Brady put just enough air under it.

 

 

I think all that you mention might have been made easier by the defense the Saints were in. It looks pretty "standard" to me. I think a lot of teams might have had at least on more DB for that play. That would have allowed one safety to cover the inside guy and another DB to give some help on the outside. I doubt the DB that went inside looked to see what kind of coverage the CB had outside. Pretty sure that he just decided to help inside. My point is maybe you rush 3 and play a little different D than that one and no such decision would have been necessary. But hey.. great play , throw and catch.

[amfootball]

I think all that you mention might have been made easier by the defense the Saints were in. It looks pretty "standard" to me. I think a lot of teams might have had at least on more DB for that play. That would have allowed one safety to cover the inside guy and another DB to give some help on the outside. I doubt the DB that went inside looked to see what kind of coverage the CB had outside. Pretty sure that he just decided to help inside. My point is maybe you rush 3 and play a little different D than that one and no such decision would have been necessary. But hey.. great play , throw and catch.

Yeah, I am not sure. I do know that when you only rush three, Brady will pick you apart. I think in that situation you have to gamble a little. The rush was coming but did not get there. I think they trusted that corner on Thompkins as he was doing a good job all day. Dobson was the one that was tearing it up early. I did not see if Dobson was doubled on the play but perhaps they decided to take him away first given Brady had been targeted him. For sure they did not want an easy TD over the middle so they did well to force Brady to make the perfect throw to the outside which is all a defense can really do anyways. I think the Saints know they just got beat but I am sure the O feels worse as they should have been able to run that clock out.

[dw49]

Yeah, I am not sure. I do know that when you only rush three, Brady will pick you apart. I think in that situation you have to gamble a little. The rush was coming but did not get there. I think they trusted that corner on Thompkins as he was doing a good job all day. Dobson was the one that was tearing it up early. I did not see if Dobson was doubled on the play but perhaps they decided to take him away first given Brady had been targeted him. For sure they did not want an easy TD over the middle so they did well to force Brady to make the perfect throw to the outside which is all a defense can really do anyways. I think the Saints know they just got beat but I am sure the O feels worse as they should have been able to run that clock out

 

 

Yeah... was a team loss for sure. Crazy last 3-4 minutes.

[GoPats]

Once again , you are drifting off the subject matter. Where do I anywhere , any place speak of the accuracy of the throw or the coverage the NO CB had on that play. I thought we were talking about the defense the Saints were in. Take a look at the beginning of that play and see the defensive alignment. It looks like pretty much a standard defense. You might think there would be more safety help to the outside as a completed pass in bounds ends the game. Safeties might be a little deeper and overall I this appears to be a pretty standard looking defense . I'm not a DC by any means , just bringing up the possibility that maybe this was a bad alignment. As far as why Brees had a similar throw as Brady , I think the Pats had to protect the whole field as it made more sense that Brees would take a 7-8 yard gain on that 3rd and 20. They had plenty of time to kick 2 FG's. In fact I was shocked they went for it all on that 3rd and 20.

 

I think the Saints were confident leaving Thompkins in man-to-man. Obviously that's because of who/what he is. If that's Brandon Marshall or Julio Jones then obviously they're doubled with safety help. But the Patriots don't have a single, obvious, "biggest" threat. 

 

I don't think personally it was a bad call. The coverage was actually good, as AM stated. Just a good throw and an even better catch. Hard to stop any NFL team on a play with near-perfect execution. 

[dw49]

I think the Saints were confident leaving Thompkins in man-to-man. Obviously that's because of who/what he is. If that's Brandon Marshall or Julio Jones then obviously they're doubled with safety help. But the Patriots don't have a single, obvious, "biggest" threat. 

 

I don't think personally it was a bad call. The coverage was actually good, as AM stated. Just a good throw and an even better catch. Hard to stop any NFL team on a play with near-perfect execution. 

 

 

Yeah , easy to second guess. Other than maybe rush 3 and drop 8 into coverage , they just were beaten.