Joe Reitz.....

[AllYouNeedIsLuck]

So Costanzo plays every play? He must be superman never needing any subs.

Lol no but i'd much rather he be at his best at a guard position, where he's needed more. 

[Jason_]

I'm not gonna get into the whole "Satele vs Shipley" thing again. My only gripe is, he was traded when interior line was still an issue. I would've at least waited until camp started before I traded him. Who's to say he couldn't have won one of the other starting jobs, even if they planned to move forward with Satele and Holmes at the position?

 

And Thomas was a RG at the college and pro level before he went to the Pats, where he was moved to backup LG because Logan Mankins got hurt. I'd say Thomas' build would suggest power guard, not pull guard. The guy is all muscle. Thornton, on the other hand, has experience playing the tackle position in college. His foot speed and ability to engage at the next level is ideal for LG, in my opinion. 

 

And while Grigson has constantly overturned the roster since he's been here, it still seems like some guys are just "off-limits." McGlynn should've been cut before Winston Justice. Heck, we could've moved Justice inside even if we planned to go in another direction at RT. Grigson has a soft spot for McGlynn, at the very least... because nothing he's done on the field has proven he's worthy of the long leash Grigson and/or the coaching staff has afforded him since he's been here.

 

to the first paragraph, you could very well be right.  However you're still overlooking the possibility that there could be any number of reasons not having to do with his play or ability that caused them to want to get rid of Shipley.  

 

to the second, see I look at it very differently.  Thomas is listed as 6'4 and 306 lbs.  He probably is all muscle but he's also slimmer and I would think therefore quicker and more athletic than the bigger, bulkier thornton who is listed at 6'3" 334 lbs.  

 

to the third, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Justice was not cut, he simply became a free agent and was not re-signed.  McGlynn, on the other hand, is on the second year of a 2 year contract.  

[YOUR GM]

to the first paragraph, you could very well be right.  However you're still overlooking the possibility that there could be any number of reasons not having to do with his play or ability that caused them to want to get rid of Shipley.  

 

to the second, see I look at it very differently.  Thomas is listed as 6'4 and 306 lbs.  He probably is all muscle but he's also slimmer and I would think therefore quicker and more athletic than the bigger, bulkier thornton who is listed at 6'3" 334 lbs.  

 

to the third, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Justice was not cut, he simply became a free agent and was not re-signed.  McGlynn, on the other hand, is on the second year of a 2 year contract.  

 

 

Why should we automatically assume it was character issues with Shipley anymore than we should assume he was a casualty of politics?

 

So his weight makes him better suited to play RG? I'm looking more at their skillsets. McGlynn outweighs Thomas too, but he's significantly weaker. 

 

And you're correct about Justice's contract being up. My mistake. I still feel as though McGlynn's roster spot should've been in jeopardy after evaluating last season, if the coaches and front office were serious about improving the line

[GoColts8818]

Why should we automatically assume it was character issues with Shipley anymore than we should assume he was a casualty of politics?

 

So his weight makes him better suited to play RG? I'm looking more at their skillsets. McGlynn outweighs Thomas too, but he's significantly weaker. 

 

And you're correct about Justice's contract being up. My mistake. I still feel as though McGlynn's roster spot should've been in jeopardy after evaluating last season, if the coaches and front office were serious about improving the line

So I guess we drafted two guys and signed two guys to help improve the line just for the heck of it then? 

 

Like I keep saying even if Thornton takes over the starting guard from McGlynn by the end of the year I don't think he's going to be the miracle worker for the line everyone is looking for, he'll need some time to grow into the player he can become.  The line is still a work in progress.  Girgson invested major dollars to fix the right tackle spot so that should be good to go from now on.  He got us a left guard because while we have McGlynn at right guard we didn't really have anyone at left guard at all.  He drafted replacements for Satele and McGlynn who I think are both stop gap players picked up last year more out of need and what we could afford more so than because Grigson really thought they were the long term answers at center and guard.  He drafted Holmes and Thornton this year who I think he excepts to grow into the long term answers but that's probably going to take a little time.  I know everyone wants the o-line fixed right now but the truth is even coming off a 11-5 season this team still had lots of holes to fill and Grigson spread the cash around to try to fill as many of those holes as he could.

 

This team is just two years removed from a 2-14 season and Grigson has pretty much reworked the whole roster in just two years to the point that only 15 players out of 90 remain from that 2-14 team and odds are after final cut downs it will be fewer than that.  He's still building the roster back up.  Last year was a wonderful season that I think in a lot of ways was fueled by the Colts desire to get to the playoffs so Pagano could coach that game.  That motivation, and I don't think we can under score how big that motivation was, is now thankfully gone.  The Colts might come back to earth a little bit.  Not unlike what happened in 2000 when the Colts won 10 games after the 1999 Colts won 13 games under Peyton.  However, my guess is that it will pay off for us in the long run because our guys are still very young. 

 

I don't think McGlynn is anything special but I do think he's going to end up being good enough for our team to keep this year, which I know isn't what people want to hear when it comes to McGlynn.  It doesn't mean the Colts aren't going to keep looking for someone better than him to replace him down the road.  However, it's a progress first you have to get starters, once you have starters you can build depth.  Grigson in a lot of ways spent this off-season still looking for starters and might not get around to adding major depth till after this off-season.  It's not unreasonable to think that as he looks for more depth one of those areas might be another guard who is better than McGlynn. 

 

I also think the goal with the line this year is to see progress over last year's line.  Thornton ending the year starting over McGlynn because he's better would a major step in that direction. 

 

I do think this Colts team is good enough to challenge for the AFC South Title this year but I don't think Grigson has all the players in place that he wants yet either and the ones he does have in place probably need a little time to grow in their roles. 

[esmort]

to the first paragraph, you could very well be right.  However you're still overlooking the possibility that there could be any number of reasons not having to do with his play or ability that caused them to want to get rid of Shipley.  

 

to the second, see I look at it very differently.  Thomas is listed as 6'4 and 306 lbs.  He probably is all muscle but he's also slimmer and I would think therefore quicker and more athletic than the bigger, bulkier thornton who is listed at 6'3" 334 lbs.  

 

to the third, someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Justice was not cut, he simply became a free agent and was not re-signed.  McGlynn, on the other hand, is on the second year of a 2 year contract.  

 

-Everything I ever read described Shipley as hardworking "lunch pail" player with a good attitude.  If Satele doesn't step it up this season the Shipley trade is going to reflect poorly on Grigson.  I didn't like the trade when we did it, and I like it even less now.

 

-McGlynn's salary more than doubled; from $700,000 last year to $1.5 million this year, we could have cut him this year and not been on the hook for much at all since his contract only had a total of $450,000 guaranteed.  As I have posted several times ... the fact that McGlynn is still on the team is ridiculous, especially considering there were several much better FA guards available who signed 1 yr contracts for about the same or less than what McGlynn is costing us.

[K-148]

Shipley has had some trade value, and Satele has not. Anyway, Holmes is a future starter. As for McGlynn… Thornton was drafted TO BE a quality starter at RG, but he has to prove, he IS a quality starter.

[esmort]

So I guess we drafted two guys and signed two guys to help improve the line just for the heck of it then? 

 

Like I keep saying even if Thornton takes over the starting guard from McGlynn by the end of the year I don't think he's going to be the miracle worker for the line everyone is looking for, he'll need some time to grow into the player he can become.  The line is still a work in progress.  Girgson invested major dollars to fix the right tackle spot so that should be good to go from now on.  He got us a left guard because while we have McGlynn at right guard we didn't really have anyone at left guard at all.  He drafted replacements for Satele and McGlynn who I think are both stop gap players picked up last year more out of need and what we could afford more so than because Grigson really thought they were the long term answers at center and guard.  He drafted Holmes and Thornton this year who I think he excepts to grow into the long term answers but that's probably going to take a little time.  I know everyone wants the o-line fixed right now but the truth is even coming off a 11-5 season this team still had lots of holes to fill and Grigson spread the cash around to try to fill as many of those holes as he could.

 

This team is just two years removed from a 2-14 season and Grigson has pretty much reworked the whole roster in just two years to the point that only 15 players out of 90 remain from that 2-14 team and odds are after final cut downs it will be fewer than that.  He's still building the roster back up.  Last year was a wonderful season that I think in a lot of ways was fueled by the Colts desire to get to the playoffs so Pagano could coach that game.  That motivation, and I don't think we can under score how big that motivation was, is now thankfully gone.  The Colts might come back to earth a little bit.  Not unlike what happened in 2000 when the Colts won 10 games after the 1999 Colts won 13 games under Peyton.  However, my guess is that it will pay off for us in the long run because our guys are still very young. 

 

I don't think McGlynn is anything special but I do think he's going to end up being good enough for our team to keep this year, which I know isn't what people want to hear when it comes to McGlynn.  It doesn't mean the Colts aren't going to keep looking for someone better than him to replace him down the road.  However, it's a progress first you have to get starters, once you have starters you can build depth.  Grigson in a lot of ways spent this off-season still looking for starters and might not get around to adding major depth till after this off-season.  It's not unreasonable to think that as he looks for more depth one of those areas might be another guard who is better than McGlynn. 

 

I also think the goal with the line this year is to see progress over last year's line.  Thornton ending the year starting over McGlynn because he's better would a major step in that direction. 

 

I do think this Colts team is good enough to challenge for the AFC South Title this year but I don't think Grigson has all the players in place that he wants yet either and the ones he does have in place probably need a little time to grow in their roles. 

 

I know we have discussed this before, but you can't count on O-Linemen you drafted at the ends of the 3rd and 4th rounds to come in and play at a high level their rookie year. If we wanted those type players we probably would have had to trade up in the draft.

 

I agree with you that the reason we picked up players like McGlynn in 2012 was because those were the players that were available that we could afford .... but that's no excuse to keep them this season when we have money and there are (or rather were) better "stop gap" and long term options available, and many were even cheaper.

 

I do not agree that "McGlynn is good enough", he is a scrub. After witnessing the problems that our O-line caused us last season it is ridiculous that we did not pick up a couple more FA O-Linemen.  

[esmort]

Shipley has had some trade value, and Satele has not. Anyway, Holmes is a future starter. As for McGlynn… Thornton was drafted TO BE a quality starter at RG, but he has to prove, he IS a quality starter.

 

Shipley has trade value, but Satele does not .... what does that tell you?  Yes, I know Satele was supposedly injured so we'll see, but I am not expecting much.  His contract is the main reason he is still here.  I haven't seen enough out of Holmes to declare him the future starting center.

[K-148]

I don’t think Holmes was drafted to be a backup. Not with the 4^th round pick. He was projected to be a starter. In this case the Colts have to have a backup C, someone like Schmeig or Austin. Why keep Shipley on the bench when the Ravens offer draft pick?

This year: starter - Satele, backup - Holmes. Next year: starter - Holmes, backup - someone else. Can this plan fail? Sure.

[BrentMc11]

Shipley has trade value, but Satele does not .... what does that tell you?  Yes, I know Satele was supposedly injured so we'll see, but I am not expecting much.  His contract is the main reason he is still here.  I haven't seen enough out of Holmes to declare him the future starting center.

I loved Shipley's mean streak and he wanted to play sooooo badly even when injured.  Every category had him more productive than Satele.  

 

It is no secret that Satele has problems with 3-4 stud NTs....and really has a problem with the bull rush.  Holmes had injury issues at USC and they continue here.  I know he is smart and Pagano really likes him.  He is missing valuable time in the learning process.  I wish him the very best.

 

I liked the thought of Shipley coming in...kind of like Jeff Saturday...getting his first real chance.  He is in Baltimore now and I wish him well.  I wish I could have seen the Raven/Steeler game.  

[esmort]

I don’t think Holmes was drafted to be a backup. Not with the 4^th round pick. He was projected to be a starter. In this case the Colts have to have a backup C, someone like Schmeig or Austin. Why keep Shipley on the bench when the Ravens offer draft pick?

This year: starter - Satele, backup - Holmes. Next year: starter - Holmes, backup - someone else. Can this plan fail? Sure.

 

I know they are hoping Holmes steps up and becomes the starter (and I hope he can too). You hope all the players you draft regardless of round can become starters, but fact is that late 4th round is not that high of pick; a lot of teams are drafting depth/back ups in the 4th.

[GoColts8818]

I know we have discussed this before, but you can't count on O-Linemen you drafted at the ends of the 3rd and 4th rounds to come in and play at a high level their rookie year. If we wanted those type players we probably would have had to trade up in the draft.

I agree with you that the reason we picked up players like McGlynn in 2012 was because those were the players that were available that we could afford .... but that's no excuse to keep them this season when we have money and there are (or rather were) better "stop gap" and long term options available, and many were even cheaper.

I do not agree that "McGlynn is good enough", he is a scrub. After witnessing the problems that our O-line caused us last season it is ridiculous that we did not pick up a couple more FA O-Linemen.

right about the rookie linemen, that's pretty much what I was saying about them namely Thornton probably not being the answers to our prayers like some are hoping for. This line is a work in progress and like I said I am just looking for improvement vs. being 100% fixed this year because I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

Again, my point about McGlynn is as much as people don't want to hear this he's the best of what we have at the moment. Grigson drafted a guy to take his job but like you said yourself that is going to take time but he didn't ignore it. He's a stop gap guy sometimes when you are rebuilding a whole roster as Grigson is doing you have to make do with those kinds of players for a couple of years. If someone else proves to better than McGlynn I am sure Pagano will have no issues starting them a head of him. If enough people prove to better than McGlynn I am sure Grigson will have no issues cutting him either.

Like I said Grigson was still getting starters this off-season now that he has hopefully most of those in place or guys in place that can grow into them I think the next step will be building some depth. Durning that process I think McGlynn will be phased out completely.

[Mameluc]

Reitz is bigger and stronger than an year before.  I watched him on virtually every play from the visitor's 40.

 

His footwork was great.  I made a mistake of telling the fans around me how good he was looking....when the blind side hit smacked Harnish.  He was blocking inside, so the RB had responsibility or a blown line can by Austin the center.

 

All in all, Reitz to me was the surprise of the day at LT....and Austin was not 'terrible' at center for coming in this week.  We NEED a backup LT!  

I know we are talking LT here but man why isnt he starting over Mcglyn

[Mameluc]

right about the rookie linemen, that's pretty much what I was saying about them namely Thornton probably not being the answers to our prayers like some are hoping for. This line is a work in progress and like I said I am just looking for improvement vs. being 100% fixed this year because I think that's an unrealistic expectation.

Again, my point about McGlynn is as much as people don't want to hear this he's the best of what we have at the moment. Grigson drafted a guy to take his job but like you said yourself that is going to take time but he didn't ignore it. He's a stop gap guy sometimes when you are rebuilding a whole roster as Grigson is doing you have to make do with those kinds of players for a couple of years. If someone else proves to better than McGlynn I am sure Pagano will have no issues starting them a head of him. If enough people prove to better than McGlynn I am sure Grigson will have no issues cutting him either.

Like I said Grigson was still getting starters this off-season now that he has hopefully most of those in place or guys in place that can grow into them I think the next step will be building some depth. Durning that process I think McGlynn will be phased out completely.

I agree with everything you said, but if Thornton aint ready...didnt Reitz outperform Mcglynn all last year?

[GoColts8818]

I agree with everything you said, but if Thornton aint ready...didnt Reitz outperform Mcglynn all last year?

looks like reitz is paying left tackle now. I'd say he didn't or he would be starting over him, and I am not trying to be smart with that answer.

[Jason_]

-Everything I ever read described Shipley as hardworking "lunch pail" player with a good attitude.  If Satele doesn't step it up this season the Shipley trade is going to reflect poorly on Grigson.  I didn't like the trade when we did it, and I like it even less now.

 

-McGlynn's salary more than doubled; from $700,000 last year to $1.5 million this year, we could have cut him this year and not been on the hook for much at all since his contract only had a total of $450,000 guaranteed.  As I have posted several times ... the fact that McGlynn is still on the team is ridiculous, especially considering there were several much better FA guards available who signed 1 yr contracts for about the same or less than what McGlynn is costing us.

 

-As far as I'm concerned, the Shipley trade is a "wait and see" kind of thing.  We got no indication of why he was traded.  He could have very well had an outstanding attitude and been an incredibly hard worker....I don't know.  I was simply pointing out that there could be a number of reasons as to why he was traded that do not include politics or favoritism.

 

-Not disputing any of this about McGlynn other than the statement that "he fact that McGlynn is still on the team is ridiculous".  I do disagree with that. I wouldn't want to see him cut until we know beyond a reasonable doubt that we have starters and depth that are proven to be better than him.  At this point I don't think we have that.  As to the other players in FA...hey I'm with you and I was kind of hoping for at the very least one more OG be brought in.  Considering all the moves Grigson made though, I am willing at this point to give him the benefit of the doubt.  Plus, like many people have said many times...we had a lot of holes to fill and we weren't going to get them all filled in this offseason.  I would't be surprised if we spend at least one, if not 2, high draft picks next year on the OL and look for quality players as well.

 

So in all, the only thing I'm disputing at this point is the fact that McGlynn is still here out of favoritism.  

[chad72]

Every GM has his beliefs about a player.

 

Much like how Polian stuck with his draft picks and signings, Grigson is going to give the guys he brought in A CHANCE for at least a couple of years, which I think is fair if the OL guy is not getting our franchise QB hurt.

 

Satele and McGlynn seem to be the lightning rods under the "Grigson guys" category, it is understandable. Just like we have had our questions about Linkenbach being on our roster for the Polian years (and others too), McGlynn joins that category as well. 

 

The biggest issue with our O-line has been lack of continuity and health. That is why at some point, the shuffling will and has to stop and I am confident the best combination will be on the field, with or without McGlynn. We just have to see things play themselves out over the next few pre-season games.

[BrentMc11]

I know we are talking LT here but man why isnt he starting over Mcglyn

I can honestly say I have NEVER seen Reitz on the right side so I cannot answer that.  

 

I have known offensive lineman who could only get the technique 'down' on one side of the line.  Personally I liked playing both right and left guard, but I was extremely fast pulling to the right from a LG position.  Slower from right to left.  It could be something like this, or they are staying with his comfort level since he really is still learning OL from playing basketball in college.

 

Believe me, I want McGlynn replaced as soon as we can.  I was hoping Thornton would get some good reps.....injuries happen though. :

[GoColts8818]

I can honestly say I have NEVER seen Reitz on the right side so I cannot answer that.  

 

I have known offensive lineman who could only get the technique 'down' on one side of the line.  Personally I liked playing both right and left guard, but I was extremely fast pulling to the right from a LG position.  Slower from right to left.  It could be something like this, or they are staying with his comfort level since he really is still learning OL from playing basketball in college.

 

Believe me, I want McGlynn replaced as soon as we can.  I was hoping Thornton would get some good reps.....injuries happen though. :

This is a good point as well.  As fans we just tend to see the line as tackles, guards and center and assume if you play one tackle or guard spot you can play the other.  Different spots on the line have different roles and while they are similar sometimes guys are just a left guard or right tackle or something. 

 

I agree with you the fact that he played basketball in college probably has something to do with him not being able to move around the line as much.  I also think his injury concerns bother them a little bit.  He has had problems staying healthy over the course of his career.  I have no objection to a replacement for McGlynn I just don't think the Colts feel like they have a better option at the moment because either the guys they have aren't better or just aren't ready yet in the case of Thornton. 

[BrentMc11]

This is a good point as well.  As fans we just tend to see the line as tackles, guards and center and assume if you play one tackle or guard spot you can play the other.  Different spots on the line have different roles and while they are similar sometimes guys are just a left guard or right tackle or something. 

 

I agree with you the fact that he played basketball in college probably has something to do with him not being able to move around the line as much.  I also think his injury concerns bother them a little bit.  He has had problems staying healthy over the course of his career.  I have no objection to a replacement for McGlynn I just don't think the Colts feel like they have a better option at the moment because either the guys they have aren't better or just aren't ready yet in the case of Thornton. 

I totally agree with you!  They will continue to go with experience at the right guard...more than likely as long as McGlynn stays healthy.  We don't have to like it I guess ...

 

I like Joe on the left side when healthy, and enjoyed watching him immensely at LT on Sunday....very interesting stuff.

[Archer]

Personally, I still don't think McGlynn's roster spot is safe.  If Thornton comes back this week (today?), I could see us going with Cleary and Thornton at RG.  Of course, Cleary and/or Thornton would have to get some first team time in PS games and look promising.  But, if the choice comes down to letting go of a young, promising guy like Cleary or letting go the more experienced McGlynn, I'd hope our coaches would take the longer-term perspective...

[BrentMc11]

Personally, I still don't think McGlynn's roster spot is safe.  If Thornton comes back this week (today?), I could see us going with Cleary and Thornton at RG.  Of course, Cleary and/or Thornton would have to get some first team time in PS games and look promising.  But, if the choice comes down to letting go of a young, promising guy like Cleary or letting go the more experienced McGlynn, I'd hope our coaches would take the longer-term perspective...

I am not going to disagree with you Archer.  I do think that Grigson believes in experience over rookies, and that is a main reason I am feeling McGlynn sticking.  This, and also his versatility to play center.

 

This can change if Thomas Austin impresses.  He was not bad Sunday even though he just joined the team. (Don't get me wrong...he was not great either )

[Archer]

This, and also his versatility to play center.

 

This can change if Thomas Austin impresses.  He was not bad Sunday even though he just joined the team. (Don't get me wrong...he was not great either )

 

Y'know, I'm not giving McGlynn versatility points at this point in time.  Between Satele, Holmes, and Thomas, McGlynn would be the #4 center if he makes the team.  To me, the guys who get versatility points this year are those who can play OG or OT: Linkenbach, Cleary, Reitz, etc.  I do agree that versatility will likely be a deciding factor in the last one or two O-Linemen to make the roster...

[HarassedOffTheSite]

He looked good at left tackle. Looks much more comfortable at left tackle. Don't know if any of you watched him. But he did good!

What game were you watching? We REALLY need some better Oline guys.

[Mameluc]

I can honestly say I have NEVER seen Reitz on the right side so I cannot answer that.  

 

I have known offensive lineman who could only get the technique 'down' on one side of the line.  Personally I liked playing both right and left guard, but I was extremely fast pulling to the right from a LG position.  Slower from right to left.  It could be something like this, or they are staying with his comfort level since he really is still learning OL from playing basketball in college.

 

Believe me, I want McGlynn replaced as soon as we can.  I was hoping Thornton would get some good reps.....injuries happen though. :

good point regarding sides

[BrentMc11]

good point regarding sides

Thank you Mameluc.  And watching the OL at close range really helped my gage on the lack of depth.  Reitz for example made mistakes as they all do, but he showed good footwork at LT!!  

[atapcl]

Ijalana, played late in the 4th quarter around the 6 minute mark played OK pass blocking looked good, light on his feet there was a play or 2 that he blocked down with no one in front of him and Buffalo blitzed a LB  i felt hes got to look out there seemed a little nervous / excited to be out there. hey he didn't get hurt that's good, but i sure would like to see him play more I am rooting for him, I think he has talent, but the play og Reitz at tackle hum, doesn't matter what I think it matters what the coach's think.

That was a CB blitz not a LB blitz. Ijalana had responsibility for the LB that dropped back instead of rushing. The QB has to account for the CB and Harnish did not. Teams test offenses to see if the tackle slides over to pick up the CB so that later in the game the LB can rush free.

[atapcl]

i saw ijalana late in the 4th blocked well and stayed with his guy most plays but on one play he was blocking a lineman and a linebacker ran right by him and hit harnish overall he did ok i was looking for him on the line all day

That was a CB not a LB and Harnish was responsible for that play. When we run an empty backfield the QB has to be observant enough to recognize a CB blitz.

[atapcl]

When I watch Thomas I see a LG(not just based off yesterdays game), A guy thats mobile and can be used as a pulling Guard but not a RG-Power Guard

Thomas has not played football as long as the average player. He did not play in high school. He struggled with his first 2 NFL teams. Last year he played RG and LG at NE but he was most effective at LG. I believe he is the fastest of the Colts' linemen. To run effectively to the right it makes sense to have him at LG so he can pull and block on the right. Last year we were not as effective running right as running left.

[#BringBobBack]

That was a CB not a LB and Harnish was responsible for that play. When we run an empty backfield the QB has to be observant enough to recognize a CB blitz.

great thats just better for ijalana hope he makes the 53

[YOUR GM]

Once again proves he's a starting caliber linemen last night. I have no idea why the coaching staff doesn't seem too worried about getting him onto the field unless there's injuries. Linkenbach looked bettter at guard than McGlynn has as well. No idea who decides who starts regarding the o-line but my faith in that individual is sinkening more and more. I'm really done with them if McGlynn gets the start again next week, after what we saw from Thornton